Super Bowl XLV

Zygar_ Cthulhukin · Post by **Zygar_ Cthulhukin** » February 6, 2011, 6:11 am

Go Stillers!

Here we go Steelers!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7ALxylSbaU

Put ANOTHER ring on it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QRo6AuUp6Q

D#
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rt53sK_5QRM

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » February 6, 2011, 4:37 pm

Captain America will have it's first trailer shown tonight.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » February 7, 2011, 12:06 am

Go Pack Go!

Suck it, Steelers.

Zygar_ Cthulhukin · Post by **Zygar_ Cthulhukin** » February 7, 2011, 12:13 am

<grumble, grumble> Gratz Packers, no hard feelings.

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » February 7, 2011, 1:20 am

WOOT!

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » February 7, 2011, 11:25 am

Grats Bubba!

Packers deserved it. I thought the game overall lacked excitement but I blame that mostly on the Steelers.

I thought there would be a lot of drama on the Steelers final drive but the announcers didn't seem interested and Ben pulled nothing out of his ass this time.

Favorite Commercial was the "KIA" (i think) Epic Ride. The fact that I can't remember for sure the car company speaks volumes about these goofy commercials but it was entertaining.

For the foreigners...do you see when the NFL players recite the Declaration of Independence or is that blacked out for you?

Spang · Post by **Spang** » February 7, 2011, 12:47 pm

Best commercials were Budweiser Tiny Dancer and the NFL commercial with all the TV shows.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » February 7, 2011, 12:56 pm

Almost gouged ears and eyes out during the POS half-time show.

Darth Vader kid vs VW was probably one of my favorites, with the Tiny Dancer Bud being the one I did not see coming.

Wulfran · Post by **Wulfran** » February 7, 2011, 1:15 pm

OK I admit bias as a citizen of the Steeler Nation...

Christina Aguilara didn't impress me with the anthem. I laughed when I heard she had screwed up the lyrics (I wasn't listening that closely).

1st half wasn't all the exciting. Packers had one big drive and the two picks. but other than that, there wasn't much excitment.

Halftime show with BEP wasn't bad but wasn't one to remember either. The audio levels on Fergie seemed out of whack at first but such is live entertainment: it least we're not debating about it being lip-synced...

2nd half, the drama picked up. I feel for Mendenhall everytime I see the replay of Matthews' (?) helmet popping the ball loose and his eyes almost popping out of his head in panic. IMO that was the turning point of the game: it snuffed Steeler momentum and gave the Packers their first short field of the half, which they were able to capitalize on.

Commercials- Tiny Dancer, the new VW Beetle and the Dorito pug wiping out the door and his tormentor were my faves.

And yes Winnow, if you are watching FOX, you see the reading/recital of the Declaration of Independence (or at least you used to: this was my 2nd SB in PA), although in Canada, if you watch TSN/CTV's coverage of the pregame, you get FOX's game announcers but not their pre-game and some of the commercials. With the way the regs work in Canada, the only way we used to see the American commercials was if we were watching a satellite feed, and not through the cable providers. My friends and I used to go to bars with the American feeds just to make sure we saw the commercials at one time...

In the end, I thought the Steelers ran the ball better than anyone felt they would but they seemed to get away from it at the wrong times. Aaron Rodgers was sharp. His numbers were good and would have been better except for the number of drops by his guys. A lot of people want to blame Roethlisburger and its hard not to: he was so-so but his opposite number was outstanding. This seemed pretty similar to the Steelers' playoff games this year except we weren't able to force any turnovers of our own to even things out.

I just hope there aren't people in Steeler Nation that claim we were robbed: we had a good season, one few expected outside Western PA, but in the end, the Packers executed better than we did and beat us fair and square. There should be no whining like from Winnow 2 years ago and the ChickenHawk fans a few years back. Did the Steelers deserve a better fate? Well, you could argue that for a lot of the teams beat out in the playoffs this year, especially teams like New England and Atlanta, but thats life or in this case, football.

Post by **Xouqoa** » February 7, 2011, 1:37 pm

I wonder if Brett Favre hates himself right now?

He could have gotten a second ring in a backup role, and cemented his legacy as one of the greatest QBs ever if he just had been willing to accept a mentorship role with Aaron Rodgers, and stayed in Green Bay. He would have been worshiped as a deity in that city, and probably been able to stay employed with that organization for as long as he liked in a management/front office capacity.

Instead, everybody in Green Bay (and a lot of people outside of there) now hate him or have at least lost respect for him. He played two more decent seasons, only to come up short. His final season was terrible, and he is probably going to retire in disgrace with not only bad career decisions hanging over his head, but bad personal decisions as well. (ie: sending out pen0r pics to multiple young ladies)

It's too bad. I really used to like the guy, but his antics the past few years have really turned me off. There is no doubt that he was a great QB while in GB, but being a leader isn't always about being #1 and playing.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » February 7, 2011, 2:03 pm

I agree that Brett Favre has seriously damaged his "legacy". Upon reflection, I think most people will remember him as a selfish whiner...especially if you recall his comments about helping Aaron Rogers during his early years with Green Bay.

Christina Aguilara is one ugly lady (not that there's anything wrong with that). She really cakes the makeup on and still looks horrible.

I thought Chrysler's 8-Mile Eminem commercial wasn't bad. There's only so much you can do from Detroit (Ford is doing well!

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » February 7, 2011, 3:17 pm

Xouqoa wrote:I wonder if Brett Favre hates himself right now?

He could have gotten a second ring in a backup role, and cemented his legacy as one of the greatest QBs ever if he just had been willing to accept a mentorship role with Aaron Rodgers, and stayed in Green Bay. He would have been worshiped as a deity in that city, and probably been able to stay employed with that organization for as long as he liked in a management/front office capacity.

Instead, everybody in Green Bay (and a lot of people outside of there) now hate him or have at least lost respect for him. He played two more decent seasons, only to come up short. His final season was terrible, and he is probably going to retire in disgrace with not only bad career decisions hanging over his head, but bad personal decisions as well. (ie: sending out pen0r pics to multiple young ladies)

It's too bad. I really used to like the guy, but his antics the past few years have really turned me off. There is no doubt that he was a great QB while in GB, but being a leader isn't always about being #1 and playing.

The thing about sports guys who get their asses kissed on a daily basis, they begin to believe they do something more important than what they are actually doing, throwing a ball. Seriously, when the hell is his stupid car dealership going to open up? I'm glad the vain fool is crashing and burning.

People really still care about the commercials? Movie trailers and House pelting the kid with his cane was all I took away.

Game was good considering it was a "who gives a crap" matchup for myself (I understand the history of the teams, still could care less if either one won or lost).

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » February 7, 2011, 3:22 pm

What's up with all the patriotic chest beating before the game? I mean I realize it was FOX and all but it was really a turnoff and I don't get why it's so prominent for a football game.

Kluden · Post by **Kluden** » February 7, 2011, 3:58 pm

Patriotic stuff...probably cause it was in Texas...no idea.

Worst super bowl ever, next to superbowl 30.

Ok, just kidding. It was a great gameplan by both teams, and GB had great luck on the turnovers, so they win. Pretty clear, and no one can complain. Grats Pack! Now I'm going to go back to my cave and sulk some more.

Post by **Xouqoa** » February 7, 2011, 4:31 pm

Kluden wrote:Patriotic stuff...probably cause it was in Texas...no idea.

I really don't think that was why.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » February 7, 2011, 5:12 pm

I enjoyed the reading of the Declaration of Independence and don't mind some patriotic talk during the Super Bowl. I don't think they did anything too crazy. I always like to see our servicemen during the Super Bowl...so yeah, I'm totally down with all the country pumping parts in the pre-game and even the honoring of our Medal of Honor winner during a Super Bowl commercial...if they wanted to ham it up, they would have had the honoring of him live instead of cutting back to the applause and noting that it took place.

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » February 7, 2011, 5:29 pm

Was a good game I thought, watched most of it while reading a book. Skipped the halftime show and the pregame stuff.

Football in general is over hyped and underplayed, too expensive to actually go see, etc...

Kluden · Post by **Kluden** » February 7, 2011, 5:57 pm

Oh man, then you missed all the hilarity of the half time show! Mics not working, going on and off, undervolumed guitars, lights not working, etc. A production disaster! Not like they didn't have 100 rehearsals to get that shit right! haha

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » February 7, 2011, 6:06 pm

Black Eyed Peas should have performed "My humps"

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » February 7, 2011, 6:28 pm

Has there every really been that great of a halftime show? They hype it up every year and it ends up being crappy. Nobody wants to hear 6 songs crammed into 10 minutes.

Other than Prince in 2007 but that's because he's awesome.

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » February 8, 2011, 11:04 am

For most of us here in GB the third quarter was the most scarey. We have been burned so many times in the past that we are conditioned to view things as a, "here we go again" type thing. When we played the Falcons and had a 21 point lead we still didn't feel safe. When it came down to the 4th quarter and the Steelers still had a minute left to go down the field we totally didn't feel safe. I was already looking for excuses in the back of my mind. Then suddenly it was over. The Packers had won. Almost a sureal event.

I liked the halftime show. I'm not sure why so many people hated it. I think the best halftime show was the Janet Jackson booby flash. Remember back when they used to hype alternatives to the halftime show? Beavis and Butthead had a count down to kick off for the second half.

My favorite commercials were Dorito's. Sucking the fingers had me almost in tears laughing so hard. Even the Pepsi Max commericals were alright. Over all these commercials this year were the best in a long time. I think that Budweiser needs to bring back the lizards and frogs.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » February 8, 2011, 12:16 pm

Bruce Arians is a completely incompetent buffoon. When you are gouging a team for 9 and 10 yard runs, why do you immediately abandon that to throw? If you actually watch the playcalling, you can see what is effective and what is not. When the Steelers had David Johnson in as the fullback and ran the ball, Mendenhall was ripping the Packers apart. When Johnson was not in the game or they ran from a single back set, they stuffed him for a loss or he managed to get a yard or two. How fucking hard is this to understand when you are an NFL level coordinator?

It has been the same shit for 2+ years with this guy. He absolutely has no idea how to maintain an effective running game. The running game keeps an offense like GB has off the field and out of sync by chewing up clock, wile giving your defense (which needs to be fresh to keep bringing pressure) some needed rest.

On the plus side, they actually made the SB with an offensive line that was missing both starting tackles, and had to rotate 8 guys through the line after the season started due to injuries, was missing possibly the best 3-4 defensive lineman in the league for most of the year, had a QB that was wearing an armored shoe for half the year, had their best defensive player limited with an achilles injury that he played through for half the year....and had a chance to win it if they could pull off a 2 minute drill drive (that would have been easier if they had not wasted time outs).

I actually think Roethlisberger hurt his shoulder on that throw that was returned for a TD. He never did look normal throwing the ball after that. I can't explain it with certainty, but I have seen an awful lot of Steelers games and his throwing motion was just way way off. If you watch him throw normally he is very upright and rocks back slightly and ends his throw nearly vertical. After his arm was hit and he hyperextended his knee on that god awful turf, he looked to be straining to get velocity on his throws and was ending up with an exaggerated follow through where he would be bent at the waist. Dude is tough, but it is a bad time for you to be hurt bad enough to affect mechanics.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » February 8, 2011, 3:02 pm

I too was questioning the wisdom of running single-back, 3 and 4-wide sets against one of the best passing defenses in the league. Especially with a banged-up O-line and a QB who has a tendency to make bad decisions when he's pressured.

Gzette · Post by **Gzette** » February 8, 2011, 8:13 pm

The game would have been a full blown ass whipping if Shields was 100% and Woodson stayed in. Donald Driver being out was no small loss either. Loved it how Jennings referred to him as the number 1 wide out. Respect for the veteran players shows a great attitude (especially from the obvious #1 wide out on the team). And it is so awesome to get those two premier veterans rings. Grats to them. Well deserved.

That Roethlesberger could throw the ball period at a depleted secondary in the 2nd half opened up the running game, and thankfully Clay Matthews bailed our asses out. Even at the half my friends were saying stuff like "looking good right" and looking for high fives (I watched the game with a bunch of Cowboys fans), and I was like "better wait to see who doesn't come out of the locker room."

As for the half time show, we watched the Puppy Bowl on Animal Planet, which was stupid, but 10X better than a bunch of Tron look a likes and that tranny Fergie.

Honest question for the Steelers fans: Is it hard to root for a team QBd by an obvious dirt bag? Must be tough. I have a lot of respect for their defensive players, especially Palomalu, who is just frikken sick, but because of the Rapistberger I hate that team. I assume at least 2/3rds of the nation was rooting against y'all. I was with a Bears fan and a Lions fan, and both told me that absolutely hated the Packers, but were rooting for GB solely because of Roethlesberger. Even a friend I bet $20 bucks on the game stopped rooting for Pittsburgh once they looked like they could come back and get the win.

Without that fumble, Steelers would have won.

edit: embarrassing typos

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » February 8, 2011, 9:10 pm

http://articles.cnn.com/2010-06-05/just ... s=PM:CRIME

hypocritical much? If Roethlisberger was some 2nd string defensive back, he would not have made a single headline or been a spectacle seeing as how he was never charged with anything.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » February 8, 2011, 9:51 pm

But he's not. He's the starting Quarterback. And ended up being suspended for 4 games. And none of the GB players were named. At least in the linked article.

Wulfran · Post by **Wulfran** » February 8, 2011, 10:03 pm

As for the question about cheering for Big Ben, my wife has lived in Western PA a lot longer than I have but we feel the same about Roethlisburger and its a little complicated... sorta like how many people feel about Michael Vick. Big Ben wasn't convicted of anything but he has shown extremely poor judgement on a couple occasions. He needed a slap upside the head, and luckily for him, it wasn't as severe as the one Vick got. A lot of media attention has been focused on him this year, especially here and for the most part, he has kept his nose clean (and no I don't condemn him for the Piano Bar thing on Tuesday, talk about a tempest in a tea cup), said the right things when given an opportunity, and kept out of trouble. The rumors that used to supposedly come out of the Steelers locker room, about various guys being unhappy with him have totally disappeared, and the opposite noises have emerged: sounds about him being a much better teammate and person to be around in general. His play has won a lot of people back to him too: you can look back to the Baltimore game, where they gave him 3-4 head shots, including the broken nose, and he was hobbling on a bad foot, and he sucked it up and played like a warrior.

Some people have forgiven him. Some people will never forgive him. People like my wife and I are taking a wait and see attitude. I don't see myself ever buying a #7 jersey with his name on it for me or my son (I'm very happy with my Woodley jersey

and the wife' faves are Troy and Hines) but I hope he can redeem himself, just like I hope Vick can too: I want to see people do better, not keep grinding them into the dirt about their mistakes, especially if they honestly want to change who they are.

And yes, I thought that was very cool of Jennings to give the nod to Driver like you mentioned, Gzette. If the Steelers wouldn't have been there, I would have been pulling for the Packers too.

Kluden · Post by **Kluden** » February 9, 2011, 12:06 am

Sanders being out was a huge loss for the steelers, he was their #1 reciever in the playoffs, and the 1st half of the super bowl...so that was a big hit...even though 90% of america has no clue who he is. Obviously, both teams lost top people, and the game still ended in green bays favor, not sure why its even a point now.

On the Ben thing, I hate him because he's dumb...but he's the qb for my team, so I still cheer for him to do well on the field. Just remember, the folks that are condemning Ben (with no factual evidence or a trial) are probably the same folks who condemned those Duke lacrosse players and ruined their lives. WTG justice system! (I don't remember all the details now about the first raplesburger "case", but I do remember thinking it looked like a clear money grab to me.)

But this is a super bowl thread! Grats Pack!

Gzette · Post by **Gzette** » February 9, 2011, 5:17 pm

I like y'all's attitude. Maybe we can rematch next year. Go Pack!

Kluden · Post by **Kluden** » February 9, 2011, 5:47 pm

It would be awesome to be fortunate enough to be in the big game next year too!

I was actually surprised to hear that it was the highest rated TV show of all time. I figured that green bay and pittsburgh, while both being two of the top earning teams in the league, wouldn't interest folks beyond the core fans of both teams. I stand corrected, and obviously the NFL and whichever channel has SB46 would love a rematch if they get anywhere near those rating numbers.

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » February 10, 2011, 11:26 am

It surprised me as well that no matter where the Packers play they have a large following in the stands. Especially in places like Arizona or Florida, where the old folks retire.

On Tuesday they had a big event honoring the team at Lambeau field and there were close to 60k fans in the stands. I almost went to it with my kids but my boy got sick and it was freaking cold. I saw it on tv though and saw that people in the front rows were able to slap hands with the team and even touch the trophy. I hope they sterilized that thing afterwards.

Looking forward to next year.

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » February 10, 2011, 12:30 pm

I am glad Rothlesraper didn't win. Even if you really believe he was innocent after this third incident with all the off duty cops watching for him, anyone with an ounce of brains would have to acknowledge that he put him self in a really stupid position. I personally think he is lucky and had the right people covering for him, but thats neither here nor there.

Personal bias and karma aside, Big Ben stunk up the join, as he has in every SB he has played in thus far. In fact, he pretty much played mediocre all year long, it just took this long for it to bite him in the ass. If he was serious about his whole redemption thing, he should not have been out partying and kareokeing with the guys. He should have been doing what Rogers was doing; staying inside and studying film like crazy. Instead, he single handedly cost the Steelers the entire game (the Mendenhall fumble was pretty much unavoidable and just iced it). Of course, Tomlinson did the team no favors by trying to pass all night. Why you run the ball only 11 times when you are putting up an average gain of 8 yards a carry is beyond me, especially given how notoriously bad GB is against the run in tight games. And why throw to anyone other than Hines Ward in the clutch situation? Total cluster fuck at the end of the game. The dubious choice to attempt a long field goal is also on Tomlinson, in my view.

On the GB side of things, they had an excellent plan to neutralize Pollumalu and their defense was as solid as it could be with the injuries. Even Jared Bush had a good game, which is shocking to say the least. There was some room for improvement on the GB side of the ball. First, I never would have deffered to the Steelers after winning the toss, as that 9 minute drive to open the game against the Jets is what killed them dead (GB got lucky here). Second, McFatty took his foot off the gas in the third quarter, as usual, and it almost cost us the entire game (again), when he should have remained aggressive on both sides of the ball. Finally, he got too fancy in the red zone on that final drive, when he could have iced the game with a couple roll outs or outside screens. The drops also helped keep Pittsburg in the game, or it would have not even come down to the 4th quarter.

On the positive side, its great to see two traditional franchises in a non-blowout championship game. Outside of Ben and one other guy, the Steelers wre all gracious in defeat and not sore loosers, which is refreshing to see. Also, the dirty play was way down from what I was expecting, which was nice.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » February 10, 2011, 4:18 pm

Jice Virago wrote:I am glad Rothlesraper didn't win. Even if you really believe he was innocent after this third incident with all the off duty cops watching for him, anyone with an ounce of brains would have to acknowledge that he put him self in a really stupid position. I personally think he is lucky and had the right people covering for him, but thats neither here nor there.

Lets start by picking things apart here. Point of fact number 1: This was his 2nd "incident". The first was with a complete nutjob who sued every person who ever came into contact with her and claimed an entire hotel was plotting against her. The 2nd was a bad decision for someone who made a lot of off field bad judgements.

Personal bias and karma aside, Big Ben stunk up the join, as he has in every SB he has played in thus far. In fact, he pretty much played mediocre all year long, it just took this long for it to bite him in the ass.

He actually played fairly well with one really bad mistake when he forced a ball into tight coverage. The pick returned for an INT, his throwing arm was hit and that caused the ball to come out high in the air like a punt. As for the other Super Bowls, he was running for his life in both of them and no other QB in the league would have been able to win games behind that line in 2008 or this year.

If he was serious about his whole redemption thing, he should not have been out partying and kareokeing with the guys. He should have been doing what Rogers was doing; staying inside and studying film like crazy. Instead, he single handedly cost the Steelers the entire game (the Mendenhall fumble was pretty much unavoidable and just iced it).

Absurd and unfounded. The Mendenhall fumble was entirely avoidable if he would have had two hands on the ball and gotten his pads low. There is no excuse for putting the ball on the ground in that situation.

Of course, Tomlinson did the team no favors by trying to pass all night. Why you run the ball only 11 times when you are putting up an average gain of 8 yards a carry is beyond me, especially given how notoriously bad GB is against the run in tight games. And why throw to anyone other than Hines Ward in the clutch situation? Total cluster fuck at the end of the game. The dubious choice to attempt a long field goal is also on Tomlinson, in my view.

First of all, TOMLIN made some mistakes in judgement this game, but he does not make the offensive play calls. It is Bruce 'the complete imbecile" Arians that calls the plays. He should have been fired at halftime and they could have had me call the plays from there on out. It would be fairly simple to do....Mendenhall off right tackle...Mendenhall with the counter...Redman up the middle. Maybe *gasp* a friggin screen that the idiot Arians has no idea how to even draw up.The FG I will give you was a really bad choice. As for throwing to Ward in that situation, you also have Heath Miller, Randle El, and Wallace who are all clutch players. If I had to pick a target on 3rd and 5 it probably would be Miller. The bottom line is that Arians is a buffoon who got them into a giant hole by not running the ball heavily behind a line that has never been able to pass protect and is built to run. They also were averaging 8 yards+ per carry with Johnson lining up as fullback. Of course why use what works when you can show everyone how genius you are.

On the GB side of things, they had an excellent plan to neutralize Pollumalu and their defense was as solid as it could be with the injuries. Even Jared Bush had a good game, which is shocking to say the least. There was some room for improvement on the GB side of the ball. First, I never would have deffered to the Steelers after winning the toss, as that 9 minute drive to open the game against the Jets is what killed them dead (GB got lucky here). Second, McFatty took his foot off the gas in the third quarter, as usual, and it almost cost us the entire game (again), when he should have remained aggressive on both sides of the ball. Finally, he got too fancy in the red zone on that final drive, when he could have iced the game with a couple roll outs or outside screens. The drops also helped keep Pittsburg in the game, or it would have not even come down to the 4th quarter.

The sad thing is they did not game plan away from Polamalu. They were going right at him and he could do nothing about it. Good scouting by their people I think....he just was not right through the whole playoffs with that Achilles injury. They also did exactly what everyone in the league has done.....target McFadden or Gay. Those guy explode backwards from receivers at the snap to give up endless 7 yard catches.

On the positive side, its great to see two traditional franchises in a non-blowout championship game. Outside of Ben and one other guy, the Steelers wre all gracious in defeat and not sore loosers, which is refreshing to see. Also, the dirty play was way down from what I was expecting, which was nice.

Not sure why you would expect dirty play from either side. These are not teams that hate each other like a Balt-Pitt game. The one sad thing is that field was such complete shit that there were a lot of injuries. It is like they forgot to add some type of heating devices under the turf and it froze up some...making it way too slick and hard.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » February 10, 2011, 5:06 pm

What that Super Buela really needed was a good dose of Timmy Tebow.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » February 10, 2011, 5:16 pm

I would like to see Minnesota sign Jon Kitna this offseason and end up playing against the Broncos with Teebow in the Jesus Bowl. It could end up as bad football, but I would watch it.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » February 10, 2011, 6:11 pm

That would bring in more ~~blood~~donation money than the southern states have seen since Trail of Tears.

Kluden · Post by **Kluden** » February 11, 2011, 10:40 am

On the dropped passes, when only watching the ball as a fan, you will miss a lot of the game itself. Take your eye off the ball sometime, and you will see the game for its true greatness.

Green Bay's receivers are great athletes, and great receivers. But what was wrong with their hands during the superbowl you ask? Nothing. The receivers only truly dropped a handful of passes due to their own mistakes. The others, where you see their hands get to the ball too late, etc, is because Rodgers threw the ball sooner/faster than the play's route designated that the receiver turn and catch the ball. The receiver must track the ball, and then catch the ball, all while still on the move in their route progression.

So what happens is, Rodgers (or any QB) sees or feels pressure, and must pass the ball. They know through tons of practice, the route's depth, and where the receiver will be when, etc etc. He throws earlier than he wants to, but has no other choice. The receiver, coming out of their turn IS expecting the ball to be in the air, and is looking for it...but sometimes its already too close to them, and they do not have enough time to adjust (speed, turn, jump, etc), get hands up, and catch.

So, on camera, it looks like a shitty receiver making yet another drop, cause they suck! But why, then, are they on the team the following week? Its not really the fan's fault. You have announcers that refuse to take the level of the game past what the ball is doing. Its not fair to fans, IMO.

I'm not saying this was every dropped pass, I'm saying you have to look past certain things and see the real play before you condemn players, or used dropped balls as excuses, sometimes its more than just a player mistake.

Also, I don't think anyone has ever claimed Big Ben is a great QB like manning, brady, and rodgers. He is a great clutch player, though, and no one can take that away from him. He'll never have the numbers of the "greats", but one more super bowl trip, and unfortunately for all the haters, he's Canton bound.

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » February 11, 2011, 1:35 pm

Clutch is a stretch on Rothlesburger. The irony here is that he is comparable to Peyton in one area; he is a great regular season QB. His playoff numbers have been alright, but his superbowl performances have been abysmal, at best. This wasn't his worst outing in a SB, but considering he was going against a banged up secondary missing its best player, he hardly made a case for himself as Canton material (see Jim Plunket). The difference here, as has been pointed out, was that the Pitt D could not carry him in this game, due to a combination of GB game planning and probably some aging in certain areas. If Pitt had Charlie Batch in there doing nothing but feeding Medenhall the ball all day, they probably would have won that game. Putting it in the air early and often was a bad choice.

As for Palomalu, he got burned because GB never ran, which took the strongest part of his game (run D and man coverage) completely out of the game and reduced him to a purely coverage role, where he had problems making the right guess on which route to jump. End result, he got burnt twice up the middle and once on the corner, which I don't blame him for. Given Rogers tendancies, he made the correct choices, but Rogers outguessed him on those plays. This to me was the most interesting part of the game, from a chess match perspective, given that Palomalu can change the game on a single play at any moment. It was a high risk high reward strategy on Rogers part. On the key plays, he guessed right and it payed off. If Palomalu steps in and picks any of those, we are talking about how dumb GB was for throwing near him instead.

On the topic of drops, its been a constant issue for a number of people on the GB recieving squad all year, intermittently. I think Rogers inherrited Favre's tendency to put too much zip on certain passes when he gets anxious, which I am fine with as long as it means he gets rid of it and gets hit less. He is lucky he didn't get hit more than the nine times he did, as it was.

And Killmol, do we really need to get into the dirty play discussion? Pitt (under Tomlinson) has a pretty solid rep of taking "strategic" late hit flags when it suited them. I think the national stage may have made them a little more self concious about it. It sure as hell was the cleanest game for Pitt in the entire playoffs. Hell, it was a flag football contest compared to the Jets game.

miir · Post by **miir** » February 11, 2011, 2:06 pm

Holy fuck, learn how to spell the names of the people you're talking about.

Kluden · Post by **Kluden** » February 11, 2011, 2:58 pm

Well, Ben has proven it enough times for me to be content with calling him clutch in fourth qtr drives. He obviously doesn't win every single time he is trailing in the fourth, but his percentage is high enough for me. Can't win them all, but he ruins baltimore's season almost every year, and that's enough for me. Plus one CLUTCH superbowl drive to boot. Yeah, I'm ok with calling him clutch.

But you don't watch the steelers, so I don't expect you to know. Just like I have no idea why sam bradford won rookie of the year, his stats looked normal to me for an awful team. I don't watch the Rams though...so I don't know.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » February 11, 2011, 3:08 pm

I'd say Ben is pretty clutch as well. Hard to tackle, makes shit happen after a play breaks down. clutch

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » February 11, 2011, 3:55 pm

In the regular season, no argument. His playoff numbers, especially Superbowl ones, are a lot different. Honestly, Rodgers was no different until this season. Favre played decidedly average in the superbowls and in a lot of playoff games as well. In the end, unless he screws up off field again, he will get into Canton on his regular season play and Pitt mystique. Going purely by stats, expecially SBs, I think you could make the case against him.

@miir:
Bitching about spelling? Really? Do you miss Nick already or something?

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » February 11, 2011, 4:47 pm

With a solid effort in the Super Bowl, Mr. Roethlisberger's career postseason passer rating of 85.4 could jump ahead of Mr. Brady's (85.7),

Combine that with a 10-3 record in the playoffs and you have a good postseason QB. Combine that with watching the same teams fail with the same defense, a better running game, and Kordell Stewart, Neil O'Donnell, or Tommy Maddox at QB and you see the big difference.

His regular season numbers are not HoF worthy....they are legend worthy. This was not geared to be a passing offense....they ran the ball for his first 5 years.

Roethlisberger has been one of the most efficient passers in NFL history. He currently ranks 8th all-time in NFL passer rating (92.5), 5th in yards per attempt (8.04), and 12th in completion percentage (63.07%) among quarterbacks with a minimum of 1500 career attempts. He has the 4th highest career winning percentage (.704) as a starter in the regular season among quarterbacks with a minimum of 90 starts.

Roethlisberger set a NFL rookie record in 2004 with five comeback wins in the fourth quarter, and six game-winning drives in the fourth quarter/overtime (including one playoff game).[79][80] Roethlisberger has the most comeback wins (19) and game-winning drives (25) through the first seven seasons of a player's career.[81][82]

NFL records

# Most regular season wins in a season, rookie QB — 13 (2004) [143]
# Longest regular season win streak to start a career for a NFL QB — 15 games (won all 13 starts in the 2004 season, won first 2 games of the 2005 season)[144]
Most wins as a starting quarterback in first five NFL seasons (reg. season only) - 51 (from 2004–2008)
Most games with a completion percentage of 80.0% or higher, single season (min. 10 attempts) — 4 (2007)
Second quarterback in NFL history, along with Peyton Manning, to register three perfect passing games during the regular season, and the only quarterback to ever register two perfect passing games in one regular season.
Youngest starting QB ever to win the Super Bowl (2005; second-youngest QB to play in the Super Bowl, behind Dan Marino)

If you watched the Steelers you would understand more about what makes him different. It is not the pure pocket passing yards that put him over the top...the line generally breaks down too fast for him to do that. If you stuck Manning or Brady behind that line, they would either be out of the game due to injuries or they would have been out and stuck with bust labels. The guy just makes plays that shoudl nto be possible and he does it so often that we get spoiled by it. Every Pitt fan (and most journalists) were actually surprised that they did not pull off that 2 minute drive. When they got the ball and needed a TD to win it with 2 minutes left, I can guarantee you that any GB fan who watched this guy in action was already in tears.

miir · Post by **miir** » February 11, 2011, 5:44 pm

Bitching about spelling? Really? Do you miss Nick already or something?

You misspelled Roethlisberger - every time
You misspelled Polamalu - every time
You misspelled Rodgers - nearly every time
You even misspelled Jim Plunkett

I think the only one you got right is Brent Farve.

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » February 11, 2011, 5:54 pm

With the exception of the three high stat games (hooray for having Cinci and Cleveland to pad stats on twice a year!) , all of his uber stats are simply winning games courtesy of having the number one D to back him. I would argue that Pitt's D and running attack had more to do with that than his passing. His stats across three SBs bear this out. Even Sanchez outplayed him in the playoffs this year. No one in their right mind is going to put this guy in even the top five active quarterbacks, let along "a regular season legend" like your homer mentality has him. He has one strong regular season quality in his low turnover rate (the biggest contributing factor to his passing rating, outside of getting to play two high school defenses a season), which goes out the window nearly every post season. The one exception was the 2008 season, where he had arguably one of the easiest set of post season teams to face of any modern playoff run, and he put up actual solid playoff QB numbers. Even then, he had a relatively pedestrian day against the Cards horrendous defense (250 1 TD 1 pick 93 rating), but its by far his best SB performance. Peyton Manning put up similar numbers last year, and lost, which is why I stand by my assertion that Pitt's D has had far more to do with Ben's W/L ratio than his QB ability.

Don't get me wrong, he is a solid player and great at taking a hit and extending the play, but he is not an elite passer and likely never will be mentioned in the same circles as Montanna, Young, Manning, Brady, or even Marino or Aikman. If anything, with his erratic TD/Int ration in the post seasod, mediocre SB performances, and using his body to cover for poor pass blocking, he more resembles Favre than anyone else, except Favre had more remarkable passing outings in individual regular season games and lasted 20 years to pile up lots of stats. If Rothlesburger manages to hang in there as long as Favre did, he will get into the HOF on sheer attrition, too. But if you want to make an argument that he is anything other than a modern day Jim McMahon, he needs to put a post season together in the neighborhood of what Rodgers (or hell, even Eli Manning from his run) had, instead of relying on the Pitt D to bail him out of early postseason errors.

It would help, as you pointed out, to have an O-coordinator who sticks with the run when its working. Honesltly at some point Tomlinson should have knocked the god damn clipboard out of that guys hand and told Ben to just hand off the fucking ball the entire second half.

Kluden · Post by **Kluden** » February 12, 2011, 11:53 am

But he's better than Favre. Got more rings, its the only stat that counts. Ask Marino.

No one here is saying he's an elite passer. I simply say he is an elite player, and a qb that 20+ teams would love to have. GB has had a household name qb for 20 years, of course you all wouldn't know what its like to have a shit qb...where you would be begging to have big ben and all his problems, throwing for your team. So yes, this is why you hear sports reporters putting big ben in lists of top qbs. they're not homers, they are just football guys who watch games and know that its more than just stats that make an elite player and qb.

I know why you're on this bash big ben's career kick, because like everyone else, when you hear these lists of best qb's in the league, often times the list makers struggle on where to put Rodgers and where to put Ben. They all waffle, and they all choose one of the other for the #5 spot...which half the time or more is someone leaving Rodgers out of the top 5 of qb's in the league. They are just lists, based solely on opinions, don't let them get to you. Aaron Rodgers is the BEST qb in the league, unsurpassed, for 2010-11 season, and has a huge fucking ring being made to prove it. There, feel better?

edit: Besides, just looking at QB rating, it gives no feel for a game, and what truly a qb did in that game...only the stats and some impossible equation that some ubergeek came up with. Let's try this, only list Ben's name next to other qb's with at least 10 post season wins...that will blow your mind on who's names are on that list WITH Ben's. He's BETTER than steve young. Steve Young's QB rating in the post season you ask? 86.1...and his ONE superbowl game is padding the stat! All those QB's had 21 other starters helping them out too, so don't just blame the D in Ben's case. Everyone knows Young had an insane O line blocking for him. playoff qb's list

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » February 12, 2011, 12:23 pm

Not sure why all this talk about how great the Steeler QB was. Ben wasn't even the best QB in that game.

I don't know a sane person that would take Ben over Aaron Rogers.

Gzette · Post by **Gzette** » February 12, 2011, 6:50 pm

Top five QBs:
1. Peyton
2. Brady
3. Rodgers
4. Brees
5. Rivers

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » February 12, 2011, 8:06 pm

Winnow wrote:Not sure why all this talk about how great the Steeler QB was. Ben wasn't even the best QB in that game.

I don't know a sane person that would take Ben over Aaron Rogers.

With the Steeler's offensive line, I would take Ben over Rodgers, Brees, Brady, and Manning.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » February 12, 2011, 10:50 pm

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:
Winnow wrote:Not sure why all this talk about how great the Steeler QB was. Ben wasn't even the best QB in that game.

I don't know a sane person that would take Ben over Aaron Rogers.

With the Steeler's offensive line, I would take Ben over Rodgers, Brees, Brady, and Manning.

Not so sure about that either. It's not like Rogers isn't mobile. He's scored the most Rushing TDs by a QB over the past two years and is fast. Ben's more of big dumb tree that can break a few tackles due to size, not really mobility. Rogers would do fine behind a crappy line.

By your logic, Kurt Warner should be hailed as the greatest QB of all time instead of just a hall of famer for what he did with the Cardinals.