Not that anyone cares...

Pilsburry · Post by **Pilsburry** » October 13, 2003, 5:41 pm

I said it that way because the SRT-4 will obviously win in the twisties...especially against an older vehicle.

SRT-4 is just lighter and FWD.

As for skill in driving, there is some, but it's mostly the car. Even in twisties...it just comes down to different components such as tires and suspension.

Some slow cars have better chances in twisties, like I wouldn't doubt a Civic would take an SRT-4 maybe in autocross type stuff, I hear they handle well.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » October 13, 2003, 5:44 pm

rofl you are on crack if you don't think a driver matters bigtime. But then again, you being on crack is nothing new at all..

Enjoy your riceburner, I am sure the highschool girls will love you²ë– you will finally feel like a man!

Pilsburry · Post by **Pilsburry** » October 13, 2003, 5:51 pm

It plays a role but I think your overrating your talent (or lack of).

A Geo will never take a Viper and I don't give a shit if Mario fucking andretti is in the pilot seat of the Intrepid, and random dude in the viper would have a good shot. Stright line it would be no contest and in the twisties.....you would have had to of found a VERY bad driver for the viper. Most drivers have enough experience from casual driving since age 16 to know what the pedals are for and that you use the big circle thing to steer.

So that means the driver is the lesser of the two components necessary to win.

The driver can only make up for small gaps in car quality, not large ones.

I'd say it's a good 70% car and 30% driver....or maybe even more skewed....like 80%/20%

*~*stragi*~* · Post by ***~*stragi*~*** » October 13, 2003, 6:21 pm

Its just absurd to think the driver doesn't make that big of a difference. You could put fucking Takuma Sato in an 89' Datsun pickup and you in any fucking car you pick and he'd kick your ass. I'm not talking about that drag racing bullshit either, thats not racing to anyone with half a brain cell. Bottom line is you know two things about racing, jack and shit. stfu 2fast.

noel · Post by **noel** » October 13, 2003, 6:33 pm

The driver is the MOST important thing you can put into your car. Don't even try to tell me that the driver doesn't matter.

Pilsburry, please don't say the words Stage 1 and Stage 2 unless you know what the fuck they mean.

Pilsburry · Post by **Pilsburry** » October 13, 2003, 6:56 pm

I do know what they mean.

Stage 1 is Injectors and a PCM.

Stage 2 is even larger injectors, a different PCM, a MAP sensor, Tip Sensor, Wastegate Actuator, and turbotoys (that's the actual term, I know it sounds stupid, it allows you to adjust the boost etc).

My car already has the Stage 1 injectors (577cc) because it's a 2004 and they just slapped them on for some reason.

The Stage 2 are (682cc). I can't tell you off the top of my head what the 2003 stock injectors are...I can tell you they are smaller, but I'm not buying a 2003 so I don't really care.

Any more stupid fucking comments?

Psyloche · Post by **Psyloche** » October 13, 2003, 7:08 pm

So if I see a muscle car with a loud exhaust can I fucking say hey there's some hick noise? JFC... Or if there's bass can I say yo there's some corn bread and fried chicken. I guess my car is chopsticks and flied lice.

BTW, like I think he said in his second post... its a neon. There really shouldn't be much more said about it

Pilsburry · Post by **Pilsburry** » October 13, 2003, 7:11 pm

Also I didn't say the driver didn't matter, I said the driver accounts for 20-30% and the car is the other 70-80%.

If you take 2 cars exactly the same...that 20-30% is going to be a world of difference.

But if you take cars that have a gap in performance that gap will change. And in many cases you won't be able to overcome it.

Most drivers know the basics....pedals, steering wheel...shit more then half of them even know how to work non-essential items like the air conditioner, radio, turn signals, and wipers.

Have you ever watched a race? All they usually do is drive in a huge fucking circle. Or they drive straight.

Sometimes they fucking deal with twisties....in that case yes it will matter. However pick any race with twisties, hand last years loser a nice car and the winner a crappy car...let them hit the track again and see what happens.

You guys are just used to watching races on TV where there are guidelines for what you can and can not do to your car and that keeps everyone relatively equal in the car department so skill is the only thing that matters.

Just more evidence of how the TV generation has brain rot.

noel · Post by **noel** » October 13, 2003, 7:13 pm

Pilsburry wrote:Any more stupid fucking comments?

Are you or Kylere going to try and expound more car knowledge and insight? Because that will virtually guarantee it.

If you're buying the Mopar packages, you're right, but Mopar's 'stage kits' aren't in line with what is commonly accepted as stage 1, 2 etc.

Pilsburry · Post by **Pilsburry** » October 13, 2003, 7:31 pm

Well that is in fact what I was referring to. The SRT-4 Stage 1 and Stage 2.

Also one more point abour driver requirement vs car requirement.

If you guys were right, then anyone could be in Nascar. It would just take one guy and his beat up old ford pick-up to bring home the trophy.

But it doesn't. As a matter of fact the car matters so god damn much that it takes a bunch of sponsors to get started because you can't even use a regular car. And then once you get going....it takes an entire pit team. A TEAM of people to ensure that the car is working at 99% or better.

If the car hardly means jack...then like I mean, what's with the sponsors and pit teams? I mean shit if you were running at even 70% of the cars potential but were good you could still win right? lol.

noel · Post by **noel** » October 13, 2003, 7:38 pm

I'll pretend I didn't see the word 'NASCAR' in this thread. I'm going to pretend you have a clue and you said 'Formula 1' instead.

A few things on Driver vs. Car.

If you have two identical vehicles, the better driver will always win.

If you have two different vehicles, unless one is completely underpowered, the driver will always win.

I will bet my salary for the next year that if we put you, Pilsburry in an Acura NSX (just using you as an example, we could sub in me as well here), and Takuma Sato in an Integra Type-R (or the new RSX whatever...) and we timed you both on a Canyon run, he would beat you EVERY SINGLE TIME.

No one is saying that the vehicle isn't important, but the driver is far more important. Additionally, no one with a clue is talking about racing in a straight line, so your ability to navigate through gears, and rely upon the raw power of a given vehichle is pointless. We're talking about actual driving her, not drag racing. At least... I am.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » October 13, 2003, 8:09 pm

Have you ever watched a race? All they usually do is drive in a huge fucking circle. Or they drive straight.

I'll forgive you, you're American so you'r excused. There is a world outside of Nascar. Let's mention Formula 1. Let's mention World Rally Championship. Let's mention Rally Cross.

You guys are just used to watching races on TV where there are guidelines for what you can and can not do to your car and that keeps everyone relatively equal in the car department so skill is the only thing that matters.

Actually no, I used to street race. Not something I am proud of, it was fucking moronic and I am glad to be alive. Especially after a friend of mine ended up in a coma for a week.

I raced a car with better HP/Weight ratio, better acceleration, better traction and higher top speed. I crushed him because I knew my car, I knew exactly how far I could push it and I wasn't affraid of pushing the limits. That fear will stop most people, for me driving was an adrenaline kick like crazy. That is why I know a driver makes a world of difference.

Pilsburry · Post by **Pilsburry** » October 14, 2003, 1:03 am

That's the thing though....there is a major difference in power to weight ratio between the 1996 Mustang GT Convertable and a modded 2004 SRT-4.

Two amature drivers racing will likely (even if one has more skill) be victorious soley on the basis of that raw power. Especially in that case, because the mustang doesn't take turns well.

Saying "unless one is completely underpowered" is only valid if you also say on the flip side of the coin "Unless one is completely inexperienced".

You can't put a pro in a nice car and an amatur in a slightly nicer car and say it's balanced. If your going to do extremes in drivers you have to do extremes in in the cars also.

So that would mean the guy has a Sunfire, and I got a porshe....in which case I could actually pull it off.

But really there is no point in arguing at this point because I don't see either of us caving.

noel · Post by **noel** » October 14, 2003, 2:27 am

Pilsburry wrote:So that would mean the guy has a Sunfire, and I got a porshe....in which case I could actually pull it off.

LOL.

Kguku · Post by **Kguku** » October 14, 2003, 5:51 am

d00d u sh3wd g37 n0s m4ng!@#!@#

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » October 14, 2003, 6:33 am

Let's mention Formula 1

Arg let's not. Boring pseudo-sport pah! European Touring Cars, Moto GP and Superbikes are the best for exciting races. Rally Cross has it's own charm too.

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » October 14, 2003, 9:33 am

Who ever keeps a car stock, my car left the lot with the optional rear end, and a K&N, now has a perf chip, have had a nice catback sys since the 5th month, swapped in a high flow catty and headers at year 1. Underdrive pulleys and some other chump change stuff at the end of year 2. My car dyno's out at 305HP, with a rear end torque of 325.

You can spend 20k on a car with specifications to outdo a mustang, but to keep pace with one you then have to spend 10 bucks for every one I do. Not to mention most of you ( not a specific insult, just true of the majority of drivers) cannot actually drive a car that has over 300hp, it is too much for you to handle.

I choose the American car because there is a serious lack of choice in rear wheel drive japanese/korean/german etc vehicles. If you know how to drive a rear wheel drive car it handles better, and outperforms a front wheel drive car.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » October 14, 2003, 10:18 am

Dodge sport pickup trucks from the mid-late 90's were faster than this car...and would dust Mustangs. Two guys I worked with had identical trucks and actually drew a little Mustang on their back window every time they dusted one.

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » October 14, 2003, 10:37 am

Pilsburry wrote:Two amature drivers racing will likely (even if one has more skill) be victorious soley on the basis of that raw power.

If the cars have any power at all, it's totally dependant on the skill of the driver. I saw some "bling mobile" races on TV the other day, it was hilarious. The stock Cutlass I had when I was 18 would have smoked them.

You're average "front wheel drive, couldn't chirp the tires in 3rd if it had too" car doesn't count. All you do there is stomp the pedal and hope for the best.

Put a pair of drivers in 300hp mustangs, skill will win every time. Put a skilled driver in a 250hp car against a novice in a 350hp car of the same type, the 250 will win. If they are both 4 wheel drive, power might win, but not otherwise.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » October 14, 2003, 11:28 am

If you know how to drive a rear wheel drive car it handles better, and outperforms a front wheel drive car.

Yupp true. Although the friend of mine who ended up in a coma did some amazing things with a front-wheel drive car.. then again, he was hunted down to drive professionally.

Pilsburry · Post by **Pilsburry** » October 14, 2003, 2:47 pm

For around $1,000 in mods (the ones I plan on doing) I can still dust your Mustang with the mods you have.

Although there is a good chance your Mustang with those mods would give a Stock 2004 SRT-4 a hard time (not sure who would win).

You have to keep in mind how much more weight that engine is pulling....it's not HP/Torque....it's power to weight ratio.

However I will concede that if you slapped a turbo on that machine you will smoke me. I was talking stock vs stock before.

Shit I hear you can put twin-turbos on stangs now.

Kguku · Post by **Kguku** » October 14, 2003, 3:18 pm

Kylere wrote: Not to mention most of you ( not a specific insult, just true of the majority of drivers) cannot actually drive a car that has over 300hp, it is too much for you to handle.

So are you part of that group with your elite driving skills?

noel · Post by **noel** » October 14, 2003, 4:14 pm

Kylere wrote:Who ever keeps a car stock, my car left the lot with the optional rear end, and a K&N, now has a perf chip, have had a nice catback sys since the 5th month, swapped in a high flow catty and headers at year 1. Underdrive pulleys and some other chump change stuff at the end of year 2. My car dyno's out at 305HP, with a rear end torque of 325.

You can spend 20k on a car with specifications to outdo a mustang, but to keep pace with one you then have to spend 10 bucks for every one I do. Not to mention most of you ( not a specific insult, just true of the majority of drivers) cannot actually drive a car that has over 300hp, it is too much for you to handle.

I choose the American car because there is a serious lack of choice in rear wheel drive japanese/korean/german etc vehicles. If you know how to drive a rear wheel drive car it handles better, and outperforms a front wheel drive car.

Toyota Supra Twin-Turbo. Stock. Honda S2000. Stock. Lancer Evo. Stock. I will take you to school each and every day. Not to mention that, if I did choose to mod any of those vehicles, there are a myriad of companies and products to choose from so price is competitive. I'd probably just throw in a turbo timer though.

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » October 14, 2003, 4:20 pm

So who's Iceman and who's Maverick in this butt-buddy, need for speed thread?

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » October 14, 2003, 4:20 pm

Kguku wrote:
Kylere wrote: Not to mention most of you ( not a specific insult, just true of the majority of drivers) cannot actually drive a car that has over 300hp, it is too much for you to handle.
So are you part of that group with your elite driving skills?

Well I have been through the DoD's defensive driving course, and took some courses with Gryphon to add to those, not to mention I have driven in over 90 countries at speeds up to 230MPH. I do not have some given by god natural skill, I am however very trained. This does not make me impervious, nor a perfect driver, but it does make me a good deal better equipped to deal with faster and high HP vehicles.

Oh and BTW Pils for 1k I can add tons of HP to mycar (search on Vortech makes great stang toys, but then again I would have to supercharge or turbocharge my engine to do it, and can you guess how much less engine life you have when you do it? What it comes down to is that if you do not car about your ride you can always beat the other guy by dosing it with Nitrous. And when it comes down to it, I would beat you regardless, mine is paid for and 7 years old, I would just ram ya, and cruise on

noel · Post by **noel** » October 14, 2003, 4:32 pm

Kylere wrote:Well I have been through the DoD's defensive driving course, and took some courses with Gryphon to add to those, not to mention I have driven in over 90 countries at speeds up to 230MPH.

What car were you doing 230Mph in? Somehow I doubt you even know what a McLaren F-1 is, but... perhaps all hope is not lost...

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » October 14, 2003, 5:03 pm

To add to teh penix jousting a bit, most any 550cc or larger 4 cylinder motorcycle will spank anything street legal that has 4 wheels. That's right off the showroom floor, or purchased for $600 from the newspaper

Oh, and a 300+ hp RWD car has a massive advantage in being able to consistantly put that power on the ground. Not to mention posi and other locking differentials.

Gurugurumaki · Post by **Gurugurumaki** » October 14, 2003, 5:36 pm

Chidoro wrote:So who's Iceman and who's Maverick in this butt-buddy, need for speed thread?

I call dibs on Hollywood!

noel · Post by **noel** » October 14, 2003, 7:26 pm

I'm Slider!

*~*stragi*~* · Post by ***~*stragi*~*** » October 14, 2003, 10:35 pm

Pilsburry wrote:Also I didn't say the driver didn't matter, I said the driver accounts for 20-30% and the car is the other 70-80%.

If you take 2 cars exactly the same...that 20-30% is going to be a world of difference.

But if you take cars that have a gap in performance that gap will change. And in many cases you won't be able to overcome it.

Most drivers know the basics....pedals, steering wheel...shit more then half of them even know how to work non-essential items like the air conditioner, radio, turn signals, and wipers.

Have you ever watched a race? All they usually do is drive in a huge fucking circle. Or they drive straight.

Sometimes they fucking deal with twisties....in that case yes it will matter. However pick any race with twisties, hand last years loser a nice car and the winner a crappy car...let them hit the track again and see what happens.

You guys are just used to watching races on TV where there are guidelines for what you can and can not do to your car and that keeps everyone relatively equal in the car department so skill is the only thing that matters.

Just more evidence of how the TV generation has brain rot.

Thats exactly what I was fucking saying you moron. Except your completely and totally wrong about the driver.

noel · Post by **noel** » October 14, 2003, 10:45 pm

Stragi wrote:Thats exactly what I was fucking saying you moron. Except your completely and totally wrong about the driver.

I could not agree more with Stragi.

PS New Sig is much power

Drolgin Steingrinder · October 14, 2003, 11:01 pm

Pilsburry, I'm glad to know that there's a topic you're more ignorant about than girls.

Good job, sailor.

Stragi, you can be my buttbu...wingman any time.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » October 15, 2003, 10:49 am

i just wnat to know are all of you people into jacked up Honda Civics?

Gurugurumaki · Post by **Gurugurumaki** » October 15, 2003, 11:01 am

Voronwë wrote:i just wnat to know are all of you people into jacked up Honda Civics?

No just Top Gun~

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » October 15, 2003, 11:03 am

Nah but I'd happily take a Supra, Skyline, Evo or Impreza.

Type R of course

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » October 15, 2003, 11:10 am

Aranuil wrote:
Kylere wrote:Well I have been through the DoD's defensive driving course, and took some courses with Gryphon to add to those, not to mention I have driven in over 90 countries at speeds up to 230MPH.
What car were you doing 230Mph in. Somehow I doubt you even know what a McLaren F-1 is, but... perhaps all hope is not lost...

Actually it was a Diablo SE30, and I paid 1100 bucks for the priviledge of driving it, and it was worth every single cent I spent on doing so. Of course at nearly 40 bucks a minute, I doubt I would ever do it again, but to have done it once, phew it was the single most amazing drive of my entire life.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » October 15, 2003, 11:13 am

Voronwë wrote:i just wnat to know are all of you people into jacked up Honda Civics?

Icy Hot Stunta 4lyfe!

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » October 15, 2003, 11:28 am

Pils if you're looking for speed, why not buy a motorcycle? I bet I could TOAST your pussy ass on my bike. I mean, speed, that's what it's all about right?

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » October 15, 2003, 11:40 am

Diablo SE30 has a top speed of 333 km/h (207 mph).

http://www.lamborghiniregistry.com/Diab ... index.html

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » October 15, 2003, 11:43 am

so Kylere how many people were lined up to drive that car on that same day you did?

just wondering what your monthly payments on a lease, loan for downpayment, hazard insurance, and track access fees would be for a car like this

cause that sounds like printing money to me. but of course on the first lap some dude will probably crash into the wall

Eleani · Post by **Eleani** » October 15, 2003, 11:45 am

Pilsburry wrote:I mean I'm not saying Dodge is the king of reliability...but I think they are about average.

Dodge isn't very reliable at all. I bought a neon in 98. In 99 the head gasket had to be replaced (Mind you, its a 97)...come to find out, dodge was using a faulty gasket-type. Ok. No recall.... in 2002... oh, look... ANOTHER head gasket replacement. Never once did they recall something they KNEW Was faulty. My idea of reliability is not having to spend $800 bucks every 3 years on faulty craftsmanship.

I wouldn't purchase another dodge if someone PAID me to.

But the car looks nice, and your alterations to it will be fun. =)

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » October 15, 2003, 1:23 pm

New "Type R" model:

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » October 15, 2003, 2:06 pm

Kelshara wrote:Diablo SE30 has a top speed of 333 km/h (207 mph).

http://www.lamborghiniregistry.com/Diab ... index.html

Nice standard spec Kelshara, thx info

It will run 230MPH, well 225-230 I was a little too involved to pay much more attention to the speedometer and it was in K's anyhow so had to convert that evening. But Kelshara, why don't you go get 50 cars off a lot and test them next to the published specs and find out how many match. You must be 16 to even think they mattered.

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » October 15, 2003, 2:09 pm

Voronwë wrote:so Kylere how many people were lined up to drive that car on that same day you did?

just wondering what your monthly payments on a lease, loan for downpayment, hazard insurance, and track access fees would be for a car like this

cause that sounds like printing money to me. but of course on the first lap some dude will probably crash into the wall

Actually it was a good deal more involved than that V, came down to me knowing a private owner of one, and he and I working out a deal in goods and services running about 1100 in cash value. He wanted a network, I wanted to drive his car. There are places in Germany ( probably the rest of Europe also but I only did in in Germany) that allow you to rent Lambourghini's, Ferrari's etc aslo, of course not that specific model heh.

Gurugurumaki · Post by **Gurugurumaki** » October 15, 2003, 2:30 pm

Did I mention my mo-ped goes fast downhill?

Sirensa · Post by **Sirensa** » October 15, 2003, 2:48 pm

You guys put way too much dick primping into picking out a car.

I buy what I like and tell anyone who berates me for it where they can stick it.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » October 15, 2003, 3:12 pm

But Kelshara, why don't you go get 50 cars off a lot and test them next to the published specs and find out how many match. You must be 16 to even think they mattered.

And you must be a moron.. oh wait, you are. That is already well known.

I pulled up around 10 different sites with tested top speeds, and the one I posted was the highest one. The rest were 2-3 MPH slower.

You were saying again? You really should stop shifting gears in your piece of shit Mustang with your ass, maybe you'll start making some sense.

I buy what I like and tell anyone who berates me for it where they can stick it.

Where they can stick what? The car or the dick?

Raistin · Post by **Raistin** » October 15, 2003, 3:14 pm

YES WE ALL KNOW HOW OFTEN PEOPLE FUCKING DRIVE 200+ MPH EVERY DAY.

Jesus will you all shut the fuck up and put the dicks back in your pants?

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » October 15, 2003, 3:20 pm

Kelshara wrote:
But Kelshara, why don't you go get 50 cars off a lot and test them next to the published specs and find out how many match. You must be 16 to even think they mattered.
And you must be a moron.. oh wait, you are. That is already well known.

I pulled up around 10 different sites with tested top speeds, and the one I posted was the highest one. The rest were 2-3 MPH slower.

You were saying again? You really should stop shifting gears in your piece of shit Mustang with your ass, maybe you'll start making some sense.

I buy what I like and tell anyone who berates me for it where they can stick it.
Where they can stick what? The car or the dick?

LOL so you think that you have the only accurate data based on some websites LOL, and you call ME a moron? LOL

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » October 15, 2003, 3:29 pm

Hey, speak for yourself there Goose, I'm flying down the fuckin highway.

It takes me about 40 minutes to drive 8 miles to work every day. Average speed, 12 mph. Stick that in your tailpipe and smoke it!!!1!!1