UN Irrelevant?

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » September 4, 2003, 8:25 pm

kyoukan wrote:yeah because baghdad is a really safe place to live atm.

Vetiria wrote:
Anyone ever think maybe the UN contacted the US and asked to be involved? Just a question!
Anan is not approaching Bush. Bush is asking Anan for help.

Was it before? I think that when the US/UK/minor allies began the actions in Iraq, the talks had already begun as to the UN's role afterwards.

Not just pulling out these comments for my whole post, but the dripping sarcasm didn't seem to fall all the way to the floor throughout the thread in places..

I just think it's funny how people today seem to think any military action will be solved within a couple months or even a year. Granted this was not exactly a "war" when compared to past actions from many countries throughout history. They never said it will be done in 1 month, 6 months, 6 years. They said it would be a long road. We're on that road now, and we have to decide whether or not to pay the toll to exit now or continue to drive along the toll road until things are done. It seems like too many people still think that it would be over when the news channels stopped covering it every minute of every day. That's how video games work. You turn them off and they are over. That's not how the real world works...or so I am told.

If I remember correctly the UN started asking about helping after the "invasion" when it was underway. Who approached who is probably not known by any of us for sure.

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » September 4, 2003, 8:26 pm

something other than slavish subservience to their leaders works

More than a few people here should give this a try some time.

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » September 4, 2003, 9:12 pm

Tanc,

The threat is not undetermined.
The threat is a nuke in the downtown of an infidel's city.

Are our actions reducing that threat?
Is it worth the cost we must pay to act as we have?
Could we have acted in a better manner?

To me those things are undetermined.

Truant · Post by **Truant** » September 5, 2003, 2:39 am

I'm a potential threat.

Are you going to attack me? are you?!

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » September 5, 2003, 5:38 am

The threat is not undetermined.
The threat is a nuke in the downtown of an infidel's city.

Are we talking Saddam or Al'Qaeda here? Because there IS a distinction no matter how certain quarters have tried to blur the lines.

Yes Saddam had dreams of nuking Tel Aviv. He also had dreams of leading a united Arab world a la Nasser, and dreamed he was as big a figure as Saladin or Nebuchadnezzer.
All of these are the fantasies of a nutter.
The ONLY concrete part of a nuke plan so far found is a decomissioned gas centrifuge from 12 years ago (i.e. his previous nuke program before he attracted the attention of the world) buried in a garden. Everything else regarding this "threat" has been shown to be nonexistant or a forgery.

Give it up.

miir · Post by **miir** » September 5, 2003, 1:37 pm

It's really sad (and amusing) to see these fucking retards still clinging to the notion that Saddam was a genuine threat to the homeland security of the USA.

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » September 5, 2003, 1:56 pm

genuine threat to the homeland security of the USA

This was a stupid argument from day one.

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » September 5, 2003, 2:35 pm

While I'm not far from agreeing with you about the nukes in Iraq,
we were not able to speak with such certainity before the war.

He wouldn't let us in properly to verify, and he acted like he was hiding something.

What if he was left alone to this point? No telling what he'd develop.

The war significantly reduced these threats.

Now we have to deal with putting Iraq on its feet in a fair manner.
How we procede is subject to debate.

Forthe · Post by **Forthe** » September 5, 2003, 3:37 pm

Adex_Xeda wrote:While I'm not far from agreeing with you about the nukes in Iraq,
we were not able to speak with such certainity before the war.

He wouldn't let us in properly to verify, and he acted like he was hiding something.

What if he was left alone to this point? No telling what he'd develop.

The war significantly reduced these threats.

Now we have to deal with putting Iraq on its feet in a fair manner.
How we procede is subject to debate.

Well if the 2-3 years when there were no inspectors at all are any indication he would have developed jack and shit.

miir · Post by **miir** » September 5, 2003, 3:41 pm

He wouldn't let us in properly to verify, and he acted like he was hiding something.

What if he was left alone to this point? No telling what he'd develop.

The war significantly reduced these threats.

Oh give it a rest already.

That line of reasoning had no value back in January.
What makes you think it would have any value now?

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » September 5, 2003, 4:19 pm

I disagree with your opinion.

Not knowing was a gamble with nuclear consequences.

That, and over a decade of Saddam playing cheat and retreat with the UN justified invasion.

I recognise that you disagree Miir.

miir · Post by **miir** » September 5, 2003, 4:48 pm

Not knowing was a gamble with nuclear consequences.

Are you dense?
Iraq had no Nuclear program.
There has been absolutely nothing.. not even a miniscule bit of substantiated evidence that Saddam was actively persuing any nuclear weapons capability.

If you can deny that statement, your comment might be valid.

If a country has no nuclear capability, how the fuck can it be a nuclear threat?

What exactly is the gamble?

North Korea is a bigger nuclear threat than Iraq has ever been.
Can you explain why Bush has not launched an invasion and occupation of N Korea and the depostion of Kim Jong Il?

That, and over a decade of Saddam playing cheat and retreat with the UN justified invasion

What UN justified invasion?

Sure, Iraq was not 100% compliant with the UN resolutions but how exactly does that justify the American invasion and occupation?

I recognise that you disagree Miir

The difference between my opinion and your is this:

My opinion is based on facts and evidence provided by many diverse sources (including your own government).
Your opinion is based on the propaganda fed to you by your president.

If I was to say the sky is blue, would you disagree with me if George W Bush told you the sky was not blue?

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » September 5, 2003, 5:52 pm

Maybe later Miir,

I'm kinda distracted today.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » September 5, 2003, 5:55 pm

he's too busy digging out his bomb shelter for when belgium invades.

Skogen · Post by **Skogen** » September 5, 2003, 6:17 pm

miir wrote:
Not knowing was a gamble with nuclear consequences.
North Korea is a bigger nuclear threat than Iraq has ever been.
Can you explain why Bush has not launched an invasion and occupation of N Korea and the depostion of Kim Jong Il??

China. Remember what happened last time we invaded N. Korea?

masteen · Post by **masteen** » September 5, 2003, 6:17 pm

Your opinion, Miir, is based on information gained after we invaded Iraq, captured his cronies and science advisors, and went though his government records. Hindsight is another word for it. Show me any bit of info that we had before the invasion that showed with 100% certainty that Iraq didn't have WMDs.

The difference between N. Korea and Iraq is that there are countries capable of dealing with the threat posed by N. Korea in the area, both economically (Japan) and militarily (China). You can bet that the second Japan feels that Kim's getting a little too crazy, there will be US ships in the Sea of Japan.

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » September 5, 2003, 6:23 pm

masteen wrote: Show me any bit of info that we had before the invasion that showed with 100% certainty that Iraq didn't have WMDs.

Change 'didn't' to 'did' and we have a case here.

miir · Post by **miir** » September 5, 2003, 6:33 pm

masteen wrote: Show me any bit of info that we had before the invasion that showed with 100% certainty that Iraq didn't have WMDs.

US intelligence had no credible information regarding any nuclear weapons program in Iraq. It's also becoming apparent that US Intelligence is a complete and utter farce.

What happened to the evidence of WMD programs that US Intelligence was so confident they would find once Iraq was invaded and occupied?

Many months later and still no smoking gun.....

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » September 5, 2003, 7:10 pm

Forthe wrote:
Adex_Xeda wrote:While I'm not far from agreeing with you about the nukes in Iraq,
we were not able to speak with such certainity before the war.

He wouldn't let us in properly to verify, and he acted like he was hiding something.

What if he was left alone to this point? No telling what he'd develop.

The war significantly reduced these threats.

Now we have to deal with putting Iraq on its feet in a fair manner.
How we procede is subject to debate.
Well if the 2-3 years when there were no inspectors at all are any indication he would have developed jack and shit.

Im sure it takes a good 2-3 years to find your dick! Do you give up hell no you find. Im sure its the same way with the Iraq nukes they are teeny weeny nukes shoved up Husseins ass.

Forthe · Post by **Forthe** » September 5, 2003, 8:30 pm

Cartalas I suggest you stick to the retard forum. You keep getting owned by others and often times by your own idiocy everywhere else.