The Right to Marry!

Etasi · Post by **Etasi** » August 27, 2003, 6:43 pm

Spankes wrote:Sodomy is illegal in many states. To allow same sex marriage is to allow a contradictory law and break an already set precedent.

Even if the US Supreme Court hadn't recently declared anti-sodomy laws unconstitutional, the existence of such laws would still be irrelevant in a discussion of federal government policy. State law does not set any precedents for federal law, nor is there any legal reason why the federal government cannot make laws that contradict state laws. In fact, the federal government has made laws that contradict stae laws many times in the past. See the federal civil rights legislation from the 1960s for an example.

If you're going to argue against gay marriage, at least know what you're arguing. There's quite a difference between arguing why you personally do not like gay marriage, and why the federal government should not make gay marriage legal. Religion has a place in the former, but not the latter. The US government isn't allowed to officially sponsor or endorse any religion, and as such, cannot create laws based solely on the tenets of Christianity. So if you want to argue against the legalization of gay marriage in the US, you're going to have to find a legal rather than religious basis for your position.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » August 27, 2003, 6:51 pm

Many states are also doing the reverse, specifically in regards to legalizing mary jane for medicinal use.

*~*stragi*~* · Post by ***~*stragi*~*** » August 27, 2003, 7:07 pm

Maybe I'm weird but I really never cared about it. Its not my business what other people do with their lives unless it affects me or my lifestyle directly.

I'll have an opinion for beer though )

Sylvos · Post by **Sylvos** » August 27, 2003, 7:11 pm

fair enough karae!

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » August 27, 2003, 8:32 pm

The only difference that matters is that after the wedding the female bride stops sucking cock and the male bride doesn't.

noel · Post by **noel** » August 27, 2003, 8:36 pm

Marriage only has to do with God if you believe in God.

Karae and Winnow, I agree with your sentiment, but I think the larger problem is the religious assholes who try to force their views on everyone else and dictate the way people of a different faith, or no faith at all try to live their lives.

Adex, thanks. I hadn't seen the additional verse before.

Sionistic · Post by **Sionistic** » August 27, 2003, 9:23 pm

Wasnt religion what started marriage? While I beleive that gay people should get all the rights straight people do, I dont beleive they should let gay people participate in it. But i assure you, if they called it something else other then marriage, the church would not be bothered by it so much. I can see why the church does get mad, the government has no right to tell them what to follow religiously, but the government is saying that those gay people can do your thing even though you dont like it.

Just call it something else and give them the same treatment as if they were married.

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » August 27, 2003, 9:55 pm

Sionistic wrote:Wasnt religion what started marriage?

No

And even if it did, not every religion believes in the same thing so the remainder of your "point" is moot.

Just call it something else and give them the same treatment as if they were married.

How about we still call it marriage and you just let it go. Try to avoid having your religion(which isn't the same as everyone's for the record) influence what others do

Sionistic · Post by **Sionistic** » August 27, 2003, 10:01 pm

actually im athiest

Xzion · Post by **Xzion** » August 27, 2003, 10:03 pm

when people with strong religious views try to force there views on others 911 and that little middle eastern thing goin on over there start to happen

im sorry but the world would be a much better place if everyone were agnostic

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » August 27, 2003, 10:09 pm

Being athiest isn't the same as everyone else either.

Etasi · Post by **Etasi** » August 27, 2003, 10:10 pm

Sionistic wrote:Wasnt religion what started marriage.

It's irrelevant. Marriage is the term used to refer to a status legally recognized by the federal government, a status in which one's religion is irrelevant, and which is not based on religion. Therefore, the argument that "it shouldn't be called marriage if the church doesn't recognize it!" makes no sense.

Sionistic · Post by **Sionistic** » August 27, 2003, 10:23 pm

i was wrong, my mistake

Being athiest isn't the same as everyone else either.

what exactly do you mean by that

Izna Marcos · Post by **Izna Marcos** » August 27, 2003, 11:00 pm

Peronsally i dont see gay marriages as wrong, but one question...

Why ruin a good thing, with marriage?

Sorry, guess i'm not a big fan, go figure.

Deneve · Post by **Deneve** » August 27, 2003, 11:10 pm

Karae wrote:
Sylvos wrote:i disagree with the KKK reference due to the fact that those who vote no are not burning crosses, torturing little "colored" children and protesting for certain ethinic groups to be shipped back to africa, nor are they hanging random black men for dating a white woman.
I believe the hate group you were looking for would be skinheads and or the AGC (Anti-Gay Confederation) who were the ones responsible for the kidnapping and torturing of 14 homosexuals back in the late 90's.
Now if they were torturing black gay men and hanging black gay men then the reference would be A+. ( You can throw in Jewish people as well as persian/islamic too - they have branched out from what I understand).
Carry on.
I said they were NO BETTER than a member of the KKK, not a member themselves. Read it again. The analogy is valid.

while the analogy is valid, it is wrong, the KKK took extremist actions on the beliefs, killing, and making life hell for blacks and other minorities, while someone who's "opinion" as you stated, is that gays should not marry, but does not act upon it in a negative manner, is nothing like a violent, extremist member of the KKK...

Lynks · Post by **Lynks** » August 27, 2003, 11:49 pm

It sickens me to see the amount of ignorance on this board (even though the majority is for). I guess in a perfect world, everyone would be white and straight?

Sad.

Deneve · Post by **Deneve** » August 28, 2003, 12:28 am

am i ignorant because my personal opinions differ from yours?

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » August 28, 2003, 12:49 am

My bad, I thought the title said 'Right to Carry' ...

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » August 28, 2003, 3:52 am

am i ignorant because my personal opinions differ from yours?

yes

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » August 28, 2003, 9:26 am

Lynks wrote:It sickens me to see the amount of ignorance on this board (even though the majority is for). I guess in a perfect world, everyone would be white and straight?

Sad.

Nope in a perfect world everyone would be American Indian and all the guys except me would be gay but still into playing and watching football, and all the women would be Bi with hetero leanings.

Lynxe · Post by **Lynxe** » August 28, 2003, 9:43 am

What separates friends from lovers is attraction. What attracts you and what you do about it is nobody else's business except the person(s) you have a relationship with. I could care less if someone likes anal, straight sex, oral, prefer people of the same sex, like multiple partners, use tons of toys or enjoy making love in the rain. If it works and makes those people happy, more power to them.

That said, anyone who thinks a relationship (or marriage) is only about sexual attraction is ignorant. When you want to marry someone, you are making a commitment to share the rest of your life together through rich or for poor, through sickness and in health… you get the idea. Sex is just a part of it. If something happens to the person you have decided to spend the rest of your life with, your life and home are incredibly impacted. You still have to pay bills you used to pay together (mortgage for example), there may be funeral costs, you may need time off work to plan/attend the funeral, not to mention the emotional loss - none of that has anything to do with gender or sexual preference.

If a religion doesn’t approve of gay marriage, then gays shouldn’t get married in that religion. However, I firmly believe two people in a relationship should have equal rights regardless of their gender or that of their partner and that includes the right to get legally married.

Situations like this for example are just unfair when based on gender preference:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/viewpoint/essays ... ality.html

Gemily · Post by **Gemily** » August 28, 2003, 9:44 am

Lynks wrote:It sickens me to see the amount of ignorance on this board (even though the majority is for). I guess in a perfect world, everyone would be white and straight?

Sad.

*cough*

Seebs · Post by **Seebs** » August 28, 2003, 11:25 am

Ahh Drasta. Disagree with my thoughts and you turn to name calling. I used to love that in debate in college, meant I was winning. It also means I can join in.

On weekends I moonlight as a bouncer in a predominantly gay club. I'll inform my boss, a past Miss Gay America named 'Norma Christie', that I am homophobic and that I need to change my views. I'll also inform him that he too is a homophobe because he does not like the idea either. That's gonna put a cramp in his cock ring.

As for the religion comment - I would suggest you work on your reading comprehension and also when to use your and you're.. I do not have a religious opinion about this. Marriage is a sacrament, that is a fact you dolt. I didn't make the rules.

I believe the bible is a nice book, kinda like the Canterbury Tales. It has lovely parables that inform people how they should live their life. Should it be taken verbatim? Hell no. Was Jonah in a Whale? Nope. Did Job kill his son? Unt uh. Did Pinocchio become a little boy? Probably, but that is not important right now.

So before you sharpen your "my opinion is the only opinion' sword and come after people that disagree with you, I suggest looking into a new sexual preference that revolves around people that get off on having their head up their own ass. You may get quite a following and can start a new tax bracket.

Enjoy the view.

Xaem · Post by **Xaem** » August 28, 2003, 12:01 pm

My old high school history teacher who was a great mentor to me once told me that he believed that being -truly- homophobic is absolutely no better than believing in nazism. I completely agree. I don't know that if you are opposed to gay marriage makes you homophobic, however. It -does- make you opposed to gay marriage though - and marriage is only one portion of a homosexual relationship and not the notion of homosexuality itself.

Now think about what I just said in accordance with some religious doctrine - scary, isn't it?

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » August 28, 2003, 12:02 pm

Seebs wrote:Ahh Drasta. Disagree with my thoughts and you turn to name calling. I used to love that in debate in college, meant I was winning. It also means I can join in.

On weekends I moonlight as a bouncer in a predominantly gay club. I'll inform my boss, a past Miss Gay America named 'Norma Christie', that I am homophobic and that I need to change my views. I'll also inform him that he too is a homophobe because he does not like the idea either. That's gonna put a cramp in his cock ring.

As for the religion comment - I would suggest you work on your reading comprehension and also when to use your and you're.. I do not have a religious opinion about this. Marriage is a sacrament, that is a fact you dolt. I didn't make the rules.

I believe the bible is a nice book, kinda like the Canterbury Tales. It has lovely parables that inform people how they should live their life. Should it be taken verbatim? Hell no. Was Jonah in a Whale? Nope. Did Job kill his son? Unt uh. Did Pinocchio become a little boy? Probably, but that is not important right now.

So before you sharpen your "my opinion is the only opinion' sword and come after people that disagree with you, I suggest looking into a new sexual preference that revolves around people that get off on having their head up their own ass. You may get quite a following and can start a new tax bracket.

Enjoy the view.

Okay much love to Seebs!!!! Now why didn't someone bite on my two trolling posts in this thread, perhaps I was too obvious LOL

Xaem · Post by **Xaem** » August 28, 2003, 12:07 pm

Lynks wrote:It sickens me to see the amount of ignorance on this board (even though the majority is for). I guess in a perfect world, everyone would be white and straight?

At least straight. Look at how uptight people are when Fesuni does something quasi-gay! It's like setting off a time bomb.

SOMEBODY PLEASE PASS THE FIRE EXTINGUISHER!

Trias · Post by **Trias** » August 28, 2003, 12:52 pm

SOMEBODY PLEASE PASS THE FIRE EXTINGUISHER!

WE HATE YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT AS STRONG AS US EARTH MAN

WE SMOKE WHILE WE FLIP THE BIRD

masteen · Post by **masteen** » August 28, 2003, 12:55 pm

Lynks wrote:It sickens me to see the amount of ignorance on this board (even though the majority is for). I guess in a perfect world, everyone would be white and straight?

No. In a perfect world, everyone would be a Swedish lesbian with huge boobs.

Maybe that's just my perfect world...

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » August 28, 2003, 1:02 pm

In a perfect world, people wouldn't post shit about what a perfect world would be like.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » August 28, 2003, 1:04 pm

Xyun wrote:In a perfect world, people wouldn't post shit about what a perfect world would be like.

Your logic is very round and circular!

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » August 28, 2003, 1:09 pm

Your post is very repetitive and redundant.

Lohrno · Post by **Lohrno** » August 28, 2003, 1:09 pm

I think that it should be legal for them to marry. However, that shouldn't mean that pepole should force the churches to do it. If it's against a religion, sorry, but they should have to find another religion, or a more forgiving priest to do it.

It all comes down to respect, and that should be held for both the church, and gay people.

-=Lohrno

Ennia · Post by **Ennia** » August 28, 2003, 1:26 pm

If priests could get away with molesting kids they sure could get away with a few gay marriages.
After all gay or straight they would still pay money to get married

Drasta · Post by **Drasta** » August 28, 2003, 1:44 pm

seebs .... if marriage is a religious sacrament why can you get married at the court house? and just because your a bouncer at that club doesn't make it any different ... its like ozzy's son jack ... you might say he looks weird ... looks different ...call it whatever you want he's still ugly as fuck

and nice job on changing your entire post that i flamed you on

trying to make yourself look better?

oh and seebs ... im not into anything rim job related

Siji · Post by **Siji** » August 28, 2003, 2:29 pm

I had something to say.. but.. Stragi's avatar made me forget.

Fesuni Chopsui · Post by **Fesuni Chopsui** » August 28, 2003, 2:49 pm

*does something quasi-gay* Woops...

On a more serious note, Adex could you POSSIBLY have linked two more conservative news sources? I don't think so...to believe fox as being a "fair and balanced", as they put it, source of polls and press is like believing the Bible is the divine book of the holy fucktard

But to the main question - who the fuck cares...I am tired of this subject and this debate that will never fucking end and all it does is bring out the real stupid annoying gays that give the rest of us a bad name...you know, the ones that are so flaming that 50 fire trucks couldn't put them out so they can prance around like ninnies while the rest of us normal gays get harassed and bombarded because of them....the argument is dumb, if I can marry fine, if I can't then wtf is it to me? Unlike some of perhaps my other fellow gays I could honestly care less - I'd like to have the right to get married but I'm not going to blow up and cry like a bitch just because I can't...I'm proud of who I am, but I am not proud of whining

Lisandre · Post by **Lisandre** » August 28, 2003, 3:18 pm

Fesuni Chopsui wrote: I am tired of this subject and this debate that will never fucking end and all it does is bring out the real stupid annoying gays that give the rest of us a bad name...you know, the ones that are so flaming that 50 fire trucks couldn't put them out so they can prance around like ninnies while the rest of us normal gays get harassed and bombarded because of them

That statement is just about as homophobic as they come. Ironic that it comes from a gay man. What makes you think that straight-acting gay men are any better than fems?

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » August 28, 2003, 3:33 pm

That's probably because you don't have estate, will, and benefit issues at stake. All it's really doing is legally binding you together w/ another person. In some cases, it binds people spiritually as well.

Seebs · Post by **Seebs** » August 28, 2003, 3:53 pm

Drasta:
I got out my Dyslexia/Autism handbook to ascertain what the fuck your point is.

You again argue 'if' Marriage is a Sacrament. In the Catholic Church it is, which is what I am referencing so there is no 'if'. It's a fact in that context. Kind of like you are a fucking moron, in the 'fucking moron' context.

I see no need to change posts, so that feeble attempt at an insult rings as hollow as your social calendar.

Advice for you: Quit oversleeping for English, quit arguing about an issue that you obviously have little information on, and use some form of grammar/spell check to help veil the complete Jack-off you appear to be.

As for Rim-jobs? I'm sure you do as your daddy tells ya.

Fesuni Chopsui · Post by **Fesuni Chopsui** » August 28, 2003, 6:00 pm

Lisandre wrote:
Fesuni Chopsui wrote: I am tired of this subject and this debate that will never fucking end and all it does is bring out the real stupid annoying gays that give the rest of us a bad name...you know, the ones that are so flaming that 50 fire trucks couldn't put them out so they can prance around like ninnies while the rest of us normal gays get harassed and bombarded because of them
That statement is just about as homophobic as they come. Ironic that it comes from a gay man. What makes you think that straight-acting gay men are any better than fems?

That isn't homophobia luv, that is just sheer dislike of the annoying...if I was homophobic why would I be so open about my own sexuality? And perhaps you pulled it out of thin air, but I never said "straight-acting gay men"...you said that, by normal I mean people that don't wear shirts so up and tight like girls would or that literally prance as they walk...now do I think these people are worthless? No, they just happen to annoy me...and don't get me wrong, I go to plenty of meetings, rallies etc and I wear the ocassional tight shirt...but some of the people in the gay community are down right annoying

Nilaman · Post by **Nilaman** » August 28, 2003, 6:31 pm

ATTENTION WHORE!

But aside from the flaming gay fire truck comment, Fesuni has a point. This is not going to end(soon). This is the same thing people have talked about for ages and it still stands that they can not marry.

My personal opinion is that even though the church won't allow it, they should be allowed to sign something saying that they are legally and financially together. I don't see why two people should not be allowed to be joined in some way or another to signify that they are together.

Edit: Forgot to put in what the point was.

Wulfran · Post by **Wulfran** » August 28, 2003, 7:26 pm

Whats distressing about this subject, as a Canadian, is that our government is busy obsessing over what should be a priority 3 or 4 social issue instead of addressing other, more serious issues...

As far as the issue, who fucking cares? If a gay couple can find a church that will marry them, then go ahead. Most "stricter" Christian sects won't and it should not be legal to force a church to violate their tennets. As far as the legalese shit, this should also be a non-issue: gay couples, married couples and common-law couples should be equal under the eyes of the law. Courts should respect the legal will of any citizen, and if someone is too stupid to have their partner make one, then they deserve the shit that happens.

Zygar_ Cthulhukin · Post by **Zygar_ Cthulhukin** » August 28, 2003, 8:03 pm

I agree with Arnold S.

"I think that gay marriage is something that should be between a man and a woman"

Knibble · Post by **Knibble** » August 28, 2003, 9:22 pm

I feel they should have rights to be married if they want to. What they do is their own business as long as they aren't sucking face and tickling asses in front of me I could give a rats ass what gay folks do.They are people just the same as everyone else.

Xaem · Post by **Xaem** » August 28, 2003, 9:54 pm

Trias wrote:SOMEBODY PLEASE PASS THE FIRE EXTINGUISHER!

WE HATE YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT AS STRONG AS US EARTH MAN

WE SMOKE WHILE WE FLIP THE BIRD

Its SHOOT the bird fucker!

GET IT RIGHT BEFORE I FUCKING OWN YOU A SECOND TIME!

Lohrno · Post by **Lohrno** » August 28, 2003, 10:17 pm

I think everyone should have the right to Mary. (If she's hot...)

-=Lohrno

Lynxe · Post by **Lynxe** » August 28, 2003, 11:01 pm

Nilaman said:

This is not going to end(soon). This is the same thing people have talked about for ages and it still stands that they can not marry.

Sorry, but dead wrong. They have been able to marry in Denmark since about 1989-90's. In Canada, legal same sex marriages are quickly becoming a reality. That is why I posted the poll.

October 1, 1989 – Denmark
Denmark becomes the first country to legally recognize same-sex partnerships, essentially sanctioning gay marriages.

June 10, 2003
The Ontario Court of Appeal upholds a lower court ruling to legally allow same-sex marriages.

June 11, 2003
Ontario attorney general Norm Sterling announces that the province will obey the law and register same-sex marriages. Nearly two dozen homosexual couples applied for marriage licences in Ontario on June 10.

July 8, 2003
British Columbia becomes the second province to legalize same-sex marriages.

July 17, 2003
Ottawa reveals the exact wording of historic legislation that would allow gay couples to marry.

August 14, 2003
After extensive and emotional debate, the United Church of Canada votes overwhelmingly to endorse same-sex marriages.

Thanks CBC! Toodles

Xzion · Post by **Xzion** » August 28, 2003, 11:49 pm

Kylere wrote:
Lynks wrote:It sickens me to see the amount of ignorance on this board (even though the majority is for). I guess in a perfect world, everyone would be white and straight?

Sad.
Nope in a perfect world everyone would be American Indian and all the guys except me would be gay but still into playing and watching football, and all the women would be Bi with hetero leanings.

why american indian?

*~*stragi*~* · Post by ***~*stragi*~*** » August 29, 2003, 12:17 am

./;'[

Deneve · Post by **Deneve** » August 29, 2003, 12:33 am

Xyun wrote:
am i ignorant because my personal opinions differ from yours?
yes

nope, it is nothing more than an opinion, for practical purposes gay guys are great, cause for every gay couple there are 2 more girls w/o guys...but i do not believe that gays should be "married" the concept of getting married is religious to begin with, saying that gays have the right to be "married" (as in the religious church version) is like saying arabs have the right to kill us as part of their practices

VeeshanVault

The Right to Marry!

Do you believe gay couples should have the right to marry?

I think...