For the Canadians...

Pilsburry · Post by **Pilsburry** » March 26, 2003, 2:46 pm

We are getting too hung up on population density as a factor, it is *A* factor, not *THE* factor.

Weather, Poverty, The Criminal Justice System, and just plain social attitudes attribute to our murder count each year also.

Does anyone care to look to see what percentage of violent crimes here go unpunished and what the terms for those who are punished generally served are? And then compare those to canada's....I bet thier Criminal Justice System works better.

I also bet that while they have more unemployment, that the poverty is not quite as dense, can anyone find the statistics of people who are below the poverty level in a few cities listed? Like Fint, MI or Youngstown, OH?

We know thier weather seems to be colder but I don't think that is that large of a factor, Windsor is same weather basically as Detroit and Toronto is pretty similar to Buffalo or so. Still I would be willing to bet it plays a small role.

Our social attitude towards violence is easy to distinguish, we always like to fight. Even our Government does. But what causes that tendancy towards violence? We all hate seeing murders on the news...but for some reason we see more of them every day.

Also I think for whatever reason, Canadians are just more laid back. Americans love stress, they feed off it, if there isn't enough stress, we make some. The media will provide it, or we will make an issue in our personal relationships, or we will go out and buy a big ass car we can't afford to impress people, and then lose our minimum wage job because we failed to show up for the 3rd time this week.

We are highly competitive in general, we don't work together we work against eachother. We have to have a bigger car then the other guy, we have to have a bigger house, we have to be more popular, and all that shit is competitiveness and it causes stress, and stress leads people to snap.

Gurugurumaki · Post by **Gurugurumaki** » March 26, 2003, 2:48 pm

I don't think anyone works in Youngstown, minus the drug cartel.

Zygar_ Cthulhukin · Post by **Zygar_ Cthulhukin** » March 26, 2003, 2:53 pm

Here's a gun owner who thought things through. She chose the .357 instead of the shotgun b/c she just put new countertops in.

http://www.goupstate.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ ... OMMUNITY11

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » March 26, 2003, 2:53 pm

People just don't think of everyday items as weapons...but they are

Yeah I know that's why I said "usually". The point is if you're going to beat someone to death with a can of beans, after the first blow it takes something more for the assault to continue - frenzy, derangement, cold-blood, whatever. You could more easily have a flash of rage, twat someone once and then stop.

With a gun you're less likely to get that chance to rue the initial reaction.

miir · Post by **miir** » March 26, 2003, 2:55 pm

Toronto is pretty similar to Buffalo

Hehe, thos poor fuckers in Buffalo get twice the snowfall we do.

I was curious...
Are you guys joking when you make blatantly ignorant comments and generalizations about Canada? I lived in the states for a time when I was younger and met a lot of really ignorant americans (mostly in bars.. maybe they were drunk)... I mean some of them had never even heard of Toronto and some thought we had snow year 'round. I honestly don't know if most of you are joking around or if you really think Canada is that drastically different than the US.

I pride myself in being fairly knowledgeable when it comes to other countries... culturally, politically and geographically, so I find it hard to believe some Americans are really that ignorant about Canada.

People just don't think of everyday items as weapons...but they are

That's a bit of a stretch.

Virtually ANYTHING can be used as a weapon, that doesn't make them weapons.

For something like a soda can, you must first posess the physical power to bludgeon someone with it. A socket wrench in the hands of a 100 lb teenaged girl can't be considered a weapon is she was using it against a 350lb football player.

A gun can be used by anyone, regardless of physical stature and a bullet is lethal to everyone. The only varibale that comes into play is your aim.

Pilsburry · Post by **Pilsburry** » March 26, 2003, 2:59 pm

I plead frenzy, I usually don't toss a punch, because when I get real mad my brain cuts out.

I think we can blame that on my irish ancestry also.

miir · Post by **miir** » March 26, 2003, 3:03 pm

Zygar_ Cthulhukin wrote:Here's a gun owner who thought things through. She chose the .357 instead of the shotgun b/c she just put new countertops in.

http://www.goupstate.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ ... OMMUNITY11

Funny story..

The first time I've ever seen the word 'dadgum' used in print.

She was raised up with three brothers. Dadgum right she had to be tough

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » March 26, 2003, 3:03 pm

Maddux wrote:USA Population - 281 Million
Canada Population - 31 Million

Land Area (Sq Km)

Canada - 9.22 Million
USA - 9.16 Million

The Murder Rate's for USA and Canada ( I couldnt find this years numbers, I did a quick Google. So Didnt try)

USA - 6.8
Canada - 1.8

So basically we cram 250 million more people into the same space. There will definately be more violence.

Bullshit. Japan has less homicides per capita than even Canada does. Population density has very little to do with homicide rate.

miir · Post by **miir** » March 26, 2003, 3:10 pm

kyoukan type-R wrote:
Bullshit. Japan has less homicides per capita than even Canada does. Population density has very little to do with homicide rate.

It has everything to do with cultural influence.

The USA is a gun culture.
Thug life, prostitution, murder and drugs are glorified in the media and the young kids eat it up.

There's something moraly wrong with a culture where it's not uncommon to settle an argument by taking someone's life.

There's evidence of that, to a certain extent in Canada but I think due to the high percentage of first and second generation Canadians that American culture has much less influence up here.

Maddux · Post by **Maddux** » March 26, 2003, 3:11 pm

Ok Ok the truth of it is we hate EVERYBODY, even ourselves.

Fine! Make me breakdown and admit that.

Lousy Canadians beating the truth outta us.

Post by **Sylvus** » March 26, 2003, 3:40 pm

miir wrote:
kyoukan type-R wrote:
Bullshit. Japan has less homicides per capita than even Canada does. Population density has very little to do with homicide rate.
It has everything to do with cultural influence.

The USA is a gun culture.
Thug life, prostitution, murder and drugs are glorified in the media and the young kids eat it up.

Is that element not present in Japanese culture? The glorification of thug life and all that? I will be the first to say that I'm not very knowledgeable when it comes to Asian cultures, but I was under the impression that Japan (perhaps I'm confusing it with Hong Kong, or overestimating its proliferation) produces a lot of similar movies and such. The specific example I'm thinking of would be like John Woo movies, of which I think he may have made the movie with the most shots fired in it or something like that. I could be completely wrong, I just don't think that it's the media that is to be blamed.

miir · Post by **miir** » March 26, 2003, 4:08 pm

The specific example I'm thinking of would be like John Woo movies...

John Woo is not Japanese.
Hong Kong action flicks are like sci-movies.

John Woo has always been over the top.
His movies have excessive violence.
There is nobody gullible enough that would confuse a Hong Kong action flick with reality.

There are no kids running around the streets of Hong Kong or Tokyo having 'X-treme' shootouts.

On the other hand...

Rappers have their big expensive SUVs.. they're flashin the benjamins, surounded by big booty ho's and packin'.... this is a mostly real lifestyle.

Kids see this shit and they eat it up.

They want that 75k SUV to show to their homies...
The easiet way to make 75k is to sell drugs...
When there are thousands of other kids with the same idea you don't want to lose your customers....so you need a gun

You get the idea...

It's a whole pathetic culture that's romaticised and glorified.
Guns are HUGE a part of that culture.

---------------------------

China, Japan, Korea etc... are very rich in culture. Most of their cultures go back thousands of years. While there is some western influence they still remain very close to their roots. The Japanese especially are incredibly proud of their culture.

American culture ( like Canadian culture) is much more susceptible to trends and outside influence.

Pilsburry · Post by **Pilsburry** » March 26, 2003, 4:11 pm

kyoukan type-R wrote: Bullshit. Japan has less homicides per capita than even Canada does. Population density has very little to do with homicide rate.

And Japan has a much better criminal justice system or atleast it is perceived as such, in Japan when a criminal commits his crime he *expects* to get caught. In america the criminal expects to get away with it.

In Japan there is also much more of a communal type feel....you are part of a team at work from what I read and if you screw up you actually feel bad about it. In america you work for a company but it's every man for himself and if you screw up you blame the guy in the cubicle across the hall.

Also I agree with Miir, the "thug life" rapper promote is much more attainable by real people, and thus more likely to be attempted.

Besides in John Woo movies, the bad guys usually lose and the hero has to have a bad guy to go up against. Most kids don't want to be the bad guy who has a 100% death rate, and they usually don't have some sort of evil villan to hunt down.

miir · Post by **miir** » March 26, 2003, 4:15 pm

Pilsburry wrote:And Japan has a much better criminal justuce system or atleast it is perceived as such, in Japan when a criminal commits his crime he *expects* to get caught. In america the criminal expects to get away with it.

Also, the proliferation of firearms in Japan is nowhere near that of the USA.

Pilsburry · Post by **Pilsburry** » March 26, 2003, 4:21 pm

They probably tax the hell out of guns and bullets, like they do cars and gas.

If they see a problem with something they just make it harder to obtain it. I think if I read correctly cars cost more in taxes in japan then they do for the car itself? And then the parking is ridiculous...and gas prices are high.

If they did the same to guns, most people would shy away from it.

If that's the case we would have to see how many knife and blunt weapon injuries and such are reported compared to the USA. See if we just substitute one form of violence for another....or if thier violent tendancies are actually lower, although most likely many knife and blunt trauma's go unreported because it's easier to treat at home.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » March 30, 2003, 5:12 pm

Well assuming the 'Truth' link has its facts straight I can't see why the movie won an oscar for Best Documentary. It's obviously not.

He should have his Oscar taken away like Milli Vanilli had their Grammy stolen!

How can there be inaccuracy in comedy?" he said on CNN's Moneyline show last spring.

That may be a valid point, but surely we have a right to expect accuracy in a film that presents itself as a documentary, and an Oscar-winning one at that. We do indeed live in "fictitious times," as Moore observed, and it would seem he's part of the problem.

(http://www.thestar.com/ - Somewhere there.. Link wont paste properly)