VeeshanVault

miir wrote: Nah, the US isn't arrogant at all.
They are a country full of overbearing, self righteous, sanctimonious, egotistic, derisive windbags.

I'll take that as a compliment, may I have another~

Off to lunch,

see ya guys.

Sorry pally but the scuds DID land in Israel.

Um, fuck you ok?

This has nothing to do with EQ or the avatar I play in EQ.
You want to call me a fuckhead, an idiot or a sheepfucker, go ahead... but don't bring my EQ persona into this.




The only non-American casualties to scud missles were 2 Israelis.

Gurugurumaki wrote:I'll take that as a compliment, may I have another~

'windbag' was my favorite part of that one... what was yours?

miir wrote:

Gurugurumaki wrote:I'll take that as a compliment, may I have another~

'windbag' was my favorite part of that one... what was yours?

Would concur, don't hear windbag that often in convo~

And Im proud to be an American, where at least I know I'm free.

God Bless America, Land that I Love.

Maddux wrote:And Im proud to be an American, where at least I know I'm free.

God Bless America, Land that I Love.

Yup youre a bard, sing away~

All you monkeys best stand and put your fake cowboy hats over yer hearts, or heads will roll!!!

Yet another post of Miir calling me ignorant lol. Everytime I make a post he's like "just when I thought Brotha couldn't get anymore ignorant"...like it's some sort of huge original insult that really bothers me. I'm dissapointed that Miir, someone on an internet messageboard who obviously knows jack and shit about history and world affairs other than some radical left wing unfounded bullshit and lives in another plane of existence seperate from reality thinks I'm ignorant. Really, it does bother me . Then he proceeds to make a broad series of rationalizing, ignorant statements that make no point whatsoever.

I thought about actually addressing your posts Miir, but the fact that you still don't seem to think Iraq has WMDs shows that you're yet another person (I think it's about 10 percent of the population) that knows what they want to believe and will believe it no matter what the facts are to the contrary, and there's nothing I can say that will change your mind.

Brotha wrote:Yet another post of Miir calling me ignorant lol. Everytime I make a post he's like "just when I thought Brotha couldn't get anymore ignorant"...like it's some sort of huge original insult that really bothers me. I'm dissapointed that Miir, someone on an internet messageboard who obviously knows jack and shit about history and world affairs other than some radical left wing unfounded bullshit and lives in another plane of existence seperate from reality thinks I'm ignorant. Really, it does bother me . Then he proceeds to make a broad series of rationalizing, ignorant statements that make no point whatsoever.

I thought about actually addressing your posts Miir, but the fact that you still don't seem to think Iraq has WMDs shows that you're yet another person (I think it's about 10 percent of the population) that knows what they want to believe and will believe it no matter what the facts are to the contrary, and there's nothing I can say that will change your mind.

Would love to know where you pulled that 10% figure from.. oh wait, I know, from your ass. Ignoring the fact that Miir is Canadian and is in the majority on his stance that we feel the war is unjust, lets just turn the tables. I'm going to highlight a portion of your text:

you're yet another person ... that knows what they want to believe and will believe it no matter what the facts are to the contrary, and there's nothing I can say that will change your mind.

So are you. Nothing short of Bush saying that he was wrong on his hunch and they couldn't find any WMD's (jesus christ I'm sick of that acronym) will convince you otherwise. Sadly, that won't happen. Even if they don't find any, they'll find some.

Not only are you ignorant, you're ignorant of the fact that you're ignorant.

It's not meant as an insult.
I'm not calling you stupid, I'm just stating the fact that you choose to ignore a lot of the information regarding this issue... that makes you ignorant.

but the fact that you still don't seem to think Iraq has WMDs

Iraq might, but I haven't seen any proof that I think would necessitate a full scale military action.

I hear a lot of Bush saying crap like:
"I believe Iraq is a threat"
"I believe Iraq might have WOMDs"
"I believe Saddam tried to buy plutonium"

There's a whole lot of rhetoric and not very much fact.

there's nothing I can say that will change your mind.

No there isn't because you blindly believe your president when he says that he believes that Iraq is a threat to the USA. It matters not to you, that he can't back up these beliefs with any semblance of evidence.



When it comes down to it, the USA has a lot to lose with this military action. Ignoring and dismissing other people's (and countries) views on the matter is not only arrogant, it's incredibly foolish.

I am reserving my response until I see the WMD.

Dregor Thule wrote:

Brotha wrote:Yet another post of Miir calling me ignorant lol. Everytime I make a post he's like "just when I thought Brotha couldn't get anymore ignorant"...like it's some sort of huge original insult that really bothers me. I'm dissapointed that Miir, someone on an internet messageboard who obviously knows jack and shit about history and world affairs other than some radical left wing unfounded bullshit and lives in another plane of existence seperate from reality thinks I'm ignorant. Really, it does bother me . Then he proceeds to make a broad series of rationalizing, ignorant statements that make no point whatsoever.

I thought about actually addressing your posts Miir, but the fact that you still don't seem to think Iraq has WMDs shows that you're yet another person (I think it's about 10 percent of the population) that knows what they want to believe and will believe it no matter what the facts are to the contrary, and there's nothing I can say that will change your mind.

Would love to know where you pulled that 10% figure from.. oh wait, I know, from your ass. Ignoring the fact that Miir is Canadian and is in the majority on his stance that we feel the war is unjust, lets just turn the tables. I'm going to highlight a portion of your text:

you're yet another person ... that knows what they want to believe and will believe it no matter what the facts are to the contrary, and there's nothing I can say that will change your mind.

So are you. Nothing short of Bush saying that he was wrong on his hunch and they couldn't find any WMD's (jesus christ I'm sick of that acronym) will convince you otherwise. Sadly, that won't happen. Even if they don't find any, they'll find some.

Not only are you ignorant, you're ignorant of the fact that you're ignorant.

Dregor, here is a link you may find interesting.

http://www.ipsosreid.com/media/dsp_disp ... _view=1764

Notice that like our Prime Minister we as Canadians sit quite comfortably on the fence.

The majority favour the UN authorising the use of force while at the same time the majority do not favour the force about to be used. Kinda stupid up here in Canuck Land.

I'm not a big fan of polling like that. 1,000 people isn't always an accurate depiction of an entire countries popullace. Location plays a large part in it, as does pure chance that you'll just happen to hit a large chunk of people who believe one thing that most others don't, by chance. As for the results of that particular poll, it's not too surprising. A bit closer than I would have thought in terms of backing the U.S., but no surprise that people would support the U.N. I'd support the U.N. too if they said it was time for war. But they aren't, and I don't.

The difference between us anti-war types and Brotha and his ilk is that we are open to having our minds changed. We just think some more time should be spent trying out non-military solutions. I've said from the outset I support a war to disarm Saddam if sufficient proof of a threat is found and he won't disarm peacefully.
Whereas the hard of thinking have their "beliefs" and don't need any of that evidence, or thought, or other feckless, liberal passtimes.

Fact of the matter is, all of you can bicker, and throw your socratic philosophies about how the war should be or why we shouldn't invade.
End result: Your opinions = jack shit to the people running things, I'm sorry but that's just the way it is. They may be important to you, and I hope they are but try to keep that in mind in the end, you are just arguing on a message board.
I am a republican, I voted for Bush. Does that mean I am incapable of thinking for myself? No. Political party affiliation due to them agreeing with your own personal feelings does not breed ignorance. To accuse someone of such behavior is not only foolish but just plain idiotic.
So far on this thread I have seen three Canadians voice their opinions on U.S. affairs. It's obvious how they feel about the entire situation and that is their God given right, however when you personally attack someone's beliefs you become the person in the wrong. What gives you the right to attack and tell me I am wrong on something that I feel or think is justified.
You can explain your side of the matter but launching personal attacks on the person in question because they disagree with you is just plain stupid.
Now don't think I'm attacking the three Canadians in question, not at all. There are just as many Americans on this thread who are attacking them with just as much fervor. Some of you really could use some work on your debating skills, once you launch a personal attack - You lose and it becomes "Welcome to 4th grade".
back to my cubicle amoungst the mindless drones and buzzing of the call center.

Well written Sylvos, now can I get a port?

...

die

Dregor Thule wrote:I'm not a big fan of polling like that. 1,000 people isn't always an accurate depiction of an entire countries popullace. Location plays a large part in it, as does pure chance that you'll just happen to hit a large chunk of people who believe one thing that most others don't, by chance. As for the results of that particular poll, it's not too surprising. A bit closer than I would have thought in terms of backing the U.S., but no surprise that people would support the U.N. I'd support the U.N. too if they said it was time for war. But they aren't, and I don't.

Dude, how much more damage is being done to the populace of Iraq with the economic sanctions that have been imposed? Food for Oil program seems to only be benefitting Sadam and his fat cronies.

So the traditional approach of sanctions have had no effect. Leaving what options? The only fucking reason the UN has not backed this military intervention is because the members of the security council have ulterior motives. The poll in the link was conducted by the most highly respected polling firm in Canada according to a poll run by them.

Why don't we disarm ouselves. The U.S. has more weapons of mass destruction than the rest of the world combined. Our nuclear capability alone could easily eradicate every living being from our frail world at least 10x over. And we have used our own WMD in the past. No matter how one attempts to justify it, it is fact.

As for the "freedom" stance: American's are less free than ever. We are controlled by so many factors now and our lives are directed by so many forces that we have almost no freedom. Our credit, our jobs, our land, taxes, our children's education, the new news media, etc all monitored and tightly controlled. All along they maintain and foster the illusion of freedom. Our own rulers have just done a better job of keeping us happy and fat. Thats all. Too bad so many of us are fooled blind. The puppets in charge of the government are selected by hand and provided as the only choices in our "democratic" elections. The wealthy buy their freedom. The rest of us are fed off the left overs, fight our countries wars (and die in them), and work without much job security or any hope of a better future. The leaders cater to those that hold the leash (the ultra rich) and do their bidding. This war will just be another example of a way to spend away our future into the pockets of a few special interests. Those of us that defend our countries values and decisions generally in my opinion are either a) happily compensated b) too ignorant to see what is happening to them every day.

So the hypocrisy continues. We claim to be the "righteous" removing a dictator with WMD while we ourselves have more control over our citizenship and more WMD than any other country on the planet (at any time in history). American's choose to ignore this at their own peril because they mostly enjoy a better quality of life (in their own arrogant opinions over others).

American's do fight against our own government, I myself have marched in protests. And I will tell you this, the media does NOT reflect the events that transpire. In fact I was in one protest in 1991 where the police formed columns and beat people senseless. This was on Capitol Hill, Seattle Washington. There were over 3,000 people involved filling major streets for at least a mile. There wasn't even one mention of it in the evening news or the newspapers though many shop windows were broken, people arrested, etc including several injuries. That made me begin to question the integrity of our news media. I have been suspect ever since. As for freedom of speech, thats an easy one to control. You can say anything you want, but those with the most "credibility" (i.e. money) can smear you left and right until your word is meaningless. Don't let the illusion of free speech fool you into thinking you are free. If you ever find yourself on the end of this type of abuse (as I have and others I know) you will understand and perhaps it would even be a good thing.

I am against this war. I was against the first gulf war. I have family poised to fight (and possibly die) because some fat rich politician or businessman can make a buck on the promise of making us safer. All American's that blindly support this war have taken us into the next step of the further erosion and destruction of our civil liberties and deceny, kept sleeping in the dream of American Might makes Right. WAKE UP.

hehe, and I thought I was jaded.

OMFG I am now stupider than before for reading that. Miir youre not jaded, youre just Canadian.

While we're at it we should just dissolve our military all together. Who needs it! It's not like anyone would attack us or anything if we didn't have the most superior military power in the world!

Thanks for that insightful retort. No where did I suggest we dismantle our military. But to continue to use the justification of WMD as a reason to attack another country is ... Hypocritical considering we ourselves possess more than any other country. Not only that but many other countries we consider potential enemies have WMD. I don't see us invading China or North Korea. Why aren't we demanding these other potential threats dismantle their weapons or we will use force? Iraq is just an easy target for us. It is easy to use the refostered prejudices of middle eastern muslims because of 9/11. Bush can play on our fears and let our fears rule our decision making. There is no smoking gun, there is no compelling reason to invade, just a bunch of presupposition and posturing. I am sure if all the financial transactions surrounding this war were made public (i.e. the money trail) there would be a whole different underpinning explaining this war. Follow the money!

Which brings me to another question: Why hasn't Bush told us how much this is going to cost? He hasn't even talked about a rough figure. I have seen the $100 billion dollar figure thrown around as if that were mere pocket change but no where has Bush mentioned the cost himself.

Iraq is just an easy target for us. It is easy to use the refostered prejudices of middle eastern muslims because of 9/11.

Point taken.

Until China quits eye-balling Taiwan, we can't get rid of our nukes. Mutual deterrance and all that...

I think the reason we have them is as a deterrent to the rest of the world (mainly the would-be Hitler types) against: a) obtaining them and definitely b) using them against someone.

The reasoning *we* have them (I would guess) is that we (hopefully) won't use them irresponsibly. Hell, I hope we NEVER use them. But ideally, the US having them isn't an issue, because they would never be used irresponsibly.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but we're not going to totally erradicate our stocks of them because then there would be no deterrent from rogue states and leaders from obtaining them and using them at a whim.

It's similar to outlawing guns, and removing them from every police officer. Just because they are outlawed, doesn't mean people aren't going to use get and use them. And if there is no deterrent (armed law enforcement) against using them, people will find a way and do it.

Well Slee, considering you started from a false premise and know fuck all about your own country, it's not surprising you came to a retarded fucking conclusion.

Oh yeah, I hope your family comes through this safe.

I say we ask Superman to collect all the world's nukes into a big chain net and hurl them into the Sun.

Slee, unless the organizers filed some paperwork with the city, it wasn't a "protest" or "march", but a "riot." Police tend to react differently to riots.

Before you go off on a rant about our freedom to demonstrate or whatever, if you check, the state really cannot deny a request for a valid cause. But they have every right to break-up a mob.

Sylvos wrote:I say we ask Superman to collect all the world's nukes into a big chain net and hurl them into the Sun.

Thats already been done once, hasn't it?

Would love to know where you pulled that 10% figure from..

The number itself isn't significant (I did just pull it out of my ass), my point was that there's a small amount of people that believe a certain thing and continue to believe it despite evidence against it.

So are you. Nothing short of Bush saying that he was wrong on his hunch and they couldn't find any WMD's (jesus christ I'm sick of that acronym) will convince you otherwise. Sadly, that won't happen. Even if they don't find any, they'll find some.

Not only are you ignorant, you're ignorant of the fact that you're ignorant.

It's a HUNCH? I don't get it...I'm basing my decision on hard on evidence of what Iraq has and is still currently trying to hide from inspectors and you're basing it (I assume you're with Miir here) on...what? How from that am I ignorant? Besides the evidence already offered, which is more than enough for any reasonable person, Saddam will use chemical weapons soon on the Kurds and/or our troops, then when we liberate the people of Iraq we will find tons more.

It's clear that Iraq has WMDs and is in violation of the ceasefire agreement. If you're trying to debate whether Iraq is a threat to the US than that certainly is debatable, but the first part isn't.

Is there really a fucking point in arguing whether or not Iraq has WoMD's? No one knows for sure either way, so why call each other out on it? LOL THEY HAVE EM NUKE THE SAND NIGGERS!!!11! NUH-UH THEY DON'T FUCK USA AND THEIR ILK LOLOLOL LETS ROLL!!!!!11! Ironically those statements sum up the past two weeks here at the vault.

Kinda repetitive isn't it?

Adex_Xeda wrote:Honestly,
The amount of proof required by Miir and Kyo is much to high for anyone to provide.

I would be perfectly happy with ANY, and I mean ANY actual proof at all.

There isn't any.

So far its been 5 months of americans demanding Iraq to prove the non-existence of something. Logic doesn't work like that. I could accuse of anyone of hiding nuclear weapons and there would be no way you could 100% prove me wrong and the only way I could prove myself right is to the find the nuclear weapons the people I accused were hiding.

Where are Iraq's weapons of mass destruction?

It frightens me right down to my core because I don't know when this crazy asshole is going to stop, and he apparently doesn't have a hard time at all in duping ignorant americans into wanting to attack anyone he pleases. I don't want to live my life through an enormous war like my grandparents did.

If the Bush administration can trick the US into invading Iraq with nothing but rhetoric or and lies, then what is to stop him from tricking them into invading the rest of the arab nations, or europe or asia or even canada?

Zamtuk wrote:Is there really a fucking point in arguing whether or not Iraq has WoMD's? No one knows for sure either way, so why call each other out on it? LOL THEY HAVE EM NUKE THE SAND NIGGERS!!!11! NUH-UH THEY DON'T FUCK USA AND THEIR ILK LOLOLOL LETS ROLL!!!!!11! Ironically those statements sum up the past two weeks here at the vault.

Kinda repetitive isn't it?

Yes, but it keeps the work day flowing. I think if we all agreed on everything, this board would suck ehh? KILL EVERYONE NO PHEAR...ROAAAAARRRRRRR

once again I will state this: The majority of Americans back a policy. If you are in the minority and do not like it, you can leave any time you want. There are 190 other countries on this planet and you have the freedom to try any of them out that you want.

It is backwards thinking peacenik crybabies like you that are an afront to what this country stands for and was built from. We are not a British colony today because people were not afraid to fight against injustice and tyrannical dictators. The U.S. is a country today because it has fought for freedom and has fought for others so they could have freedom as well.

You should flee the country and head to Canada like you fled from Veeshan. I am sure we can take up a collection for a one way plane ticket to the country of your choice if you will not come back.

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote: You should flee the country and head to Canada like you fled from Veeshan. I am sure we can take up a collection for a one way plane ticket to the country of your choice if you will not come back.

Fuck Canada, VIVA CUBA~~~~

Kilmoll, you continue to misunderstand the ramifications of this "freedom" you are so sold on fighting for.

Voronwë wrote:Kilmoll, you continue to misunderstand the ramifications of this "freedom" you are so sold on fighting for.

sshh the hilarity factor keeps me amused.

I WILL GLADLY SACRIFICE OTHER PEOPLE'S LIVES FOR THE FREEDOM TO THINK AND SPEAK YOUR OPINION AND IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT THEN LEAVE.

What false premise?

Show me anywhere examples of our current evolving government possessing "LESS" control over the individual. (Not that I believe necessarily in promoting "individualism" but the crap we are fed promotes this myth). Show me examples of our government catering to the poor and not the rich where there isn't some reach around benefitting the rich and those in control. Show me some examples of our country's recent foreign policy free of hypocritical hyperbole, hell even our domestic policy. We are in one of the worst economic downturns in decades, there is still no promised medicare/prescription drug program solution as promised (this may not affect you now, but it will later), our hottest best paying fields jobs are being shipped enmass to other countries (e.g. Indian IT). Our educational institutions are more like therapy centers to make students "feel good about themselves" instead of true academic pursuits. American's are fatter, lazier, and more ignorant on average than ever. We are undoubtedly the fattest nation on the planet. A bunch of armchair quarterbacks supporting the destruction and killing of many lives of people just like us. We make it ok cause they have brown skin or follow a different religion. We excuse ourselves, and wipe the food stains off our fat stomachs only when we are forced to look down and see what has transpired, then we click back to the Jerry Springer (or CNN) for more info-taintment. We aren't outside running about meeting other people, we are hidden away in our bedroom communities jacking off to internet porn, playing EQ, watching TV, and posting on this board where we think our opinions mean something. (maybe they do, who knows).

I love what America could be. First, we need to stop deluding ourselves into believing we are morally justified. It would be painful but it wouldn't be so bad for us to openly say "We are in charge, and its this way because we are in charge." Instead of preaching "We carry this grave responsibility to police the world since no one else will."

A government that imposes its will on other nations does the same to its own people. And through its own people's inaction that these inequities transpire. People would come to believe this if we started to talk about our actions for what they really are, and not couch them in moral mumbo-jumbo speak. (think therapy and self-help books) If more honest and direct speech were used to reflect our activities, American's could more readily understand and see how these policies control them as well. Imagine for a moment, if you saw your government as a dominating force in the world of other people... naturally the next step you might take is to ask how far that dominance extended at home. Again, I ask, what false premise?

(As for statistics on our obesity, a recent report from the American Heart Association and another article in a medical journal I read a few weeks ago showed the results from several long running studies: over 2/3s of Americans are now Obese as compared to less than 20% just a few decades ago)

I am not going to sugar gloss my posts by focusing on WMD, or Saddam, or France, or blaming someone else for what is wrong here. It appears to me that American's are unwilling to take responsibility for their own contributions to these situations.

Sounds like you have problems at home, has the weather got to you? Ohh, and if you don't like it...do something about it. Vote, exercise, quit playing EQ, get more education. Sounds to me you are the lazy, fat fuck ehh, and dare I say American?

Didn't you just buy a brand new BMW last year? Where the fuck do you get off preaching about the rich or poor?

The fact is that Americans control their own damn money and their own damn economy with their spending habits. People need to stop blaming the governement for every single damn thing and accept some personal responsibility. Did you need a BMW to get by? Do you need designer clothes? Do you spend your money on sporting events so uneducated dumbasses could make millions a year? Fuck off with your protesting whining ass. Next time you go to a protest about something the government is doing, drop off $100 to some guy on the street that looks like he needs help. Then you can say that you actually made a real effort to help someone.

People like money. The government of the U.S. has no way to make people not like to have a lot of money and spend their money to make themselves feel more prestigious. I could write a 200 page fucking essay on what is wrong with America and it all starts with people not accepting responsibility for their own actions. Even more, it is the decline of the 2 parent household that is contributing to the moral decay and the discipline that is needed to produce upstanding citizens. You can protest all you want, but the fucking government can't legislate that and do what they fucking can to work with what they can legislate.

Ignoring Saddam is pretty ignorant. Assuming that he will keep a peaceful regime in Iraq is dumb too. Granted the diplomatic means to which we have come to this war are probably the most jumbled thing I've ever seen, but we all knew this was inevitable. Bush Jr. is finishing the job his daddy didn't have the balls to. Just because we let him slide for a decade doesn't mean we should let him stay.

Some guy on PBS referred to Sad as a "poison" last night, and i think his analogy was quite on the money. Letting him sit and brood in Iraq will guarantee another military conflict with Iraq somewhere in the future, except they may be ready for the US by the time that military action would be guaranteed.

The lefties will probably say something about forged evidence that was already said before. Hopefully Bush will be vindicated on the whole WMD thing after this, but if not I still would rather Iraq be turned into a strong ally and democracy even if blood must be spilled.

I just bought a new Ferrari, I AM WEALTHY, I AM A DOCTOR, you cannot have my money...I AM GREEDY RORROFRHAR$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Kilmoll, I actually agree with you in part about the 2 parent family. I disagree strongly with much of our policies that may have been crafted to help our children but in many respects have seemed to have the effect of promoting the disintegration of the family. I do believe children need all the support they can get and will always advocate 2 parents over 1 for a whole slew of reasons.

I don't want to see our children dieing in a war without a damn good reason. I set the bar higher than "5 years down the road he may be a threat." I want more freedom for our children, more liberty, not less.

The lefties will probably say something about forged evidence that was already said before

Hey dummy:

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/03/14/sprj.i ... index.html

George W Bush wrote:The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa

Colin Powell wrote:It was the information that we had. We provided it. If that information is inaccurate, fine

Mohamed ElBaradei wrote:The IAEA has concluded, with the concurrence of outside experts that these documents -- which formed the basis for the reports of recent uranium transactions between Iraq and Niger -- are not in fact authentic

There is undeniable proof that these documents are forgeries.

/sigh

I didn't say there wasn't forged evidence, I just said that the lefties would probably say something about forged evidence.

thanks for wasting your time

Gzette wrote:/sigh

I didn't say there wasn't forged evidence, I just said that the lefties would probably say something about forged evidence.

thanks for wasting your time

This board is for wasting time, thanks for wasting your time...please come back soon.

you're welcome

SleestakkPD wrote:As for the "freedom" stance: American's are less free than ever. We are controlled by so many factors now and our lives are directed by so many forces that we have almost no freedom. Our credit, our jobs, our land, taxes, our children's education, the new news media, etc all monitored and tightly controlled. All along they maintain and foster the illusion of freedom. Our own rulers have just done a better job of keeping us happy and fat. Thats all. Too bad so many of us are fooled blind. The puppets in charge of the government are selected by hand and provided as the only choices in our "democratic" elections. The wealthy buy their freedom. The rest of us are fed off the left overs, fight our countries wars (and die in them), and work without much job security or any hope of a better future. The leaders cater to those that hold the leash (the ultra rich) and do their bidding. This war will just be another example of a way to spend away our future into the pockets of a few special interests. Those of us that defend our countries values and decisions generally in my opinion are either a) happily compensated b) too ignorant to see what is happening to them every day.

Sleestakk has been watching The Matrix too much.
Did you take the red pill and wake up as Teh Neo?