Obama cancels moon missions

[Kaldaur]

For those interested, here is the link to a blog about the politics of the space industry. I enjoy reading it from time to time. It's not something I visit everyday, because reading about it always makes me feel slightly depressed.

http://www.spacepolitics.com/

[Jice Virago]

Winnow-
Piece of shit or not, the ISS is the basis of building better permanent orbital facilities. This is ultimately what we are going to need to feasably establish colonies down the road. I know you love bitching about Obama for whatever reason, but the fact is he is the first president since JFK to actually mention the space program, without being prompted by a disaster or some crazy military idea. W only spouted that shit off after the Columbia rained shit all over the south and Reagan was only interested in a cold war boondockle that would make him look tough on the commies.

Putting a man on the moon will not serve any real purpose. There are no natural resources, atmosphere, or even strategic reasons to be there. Mars has, at least, the potential to be developed into a self sustaining colony and the science that arises out of terraforming could ultimately be used to correct climate change issues on earth. Mars also has proximity to the asteroid belt, which has tons of potential minerals to be mined (long term of course) and has the closest environment to earth. Another option is one of the gas giant moons that we know to have water, but thats a long ass ways out and probably the next step after mars.

[Nick]

blahblahblahobamablahblahobamablahblahblah

It's sad. You're not even trying anymore.

And you are?

[Drolgin Steingrinder]

blahblahblahobamablahblahobamablahblahblah

It's sad. You're not even trying anymore.

And you are?

Why, yes, I like to think that I am. I stated my point of view on the topic earlier in this thread. And I haven't turned to XTR3M3 TROLLING or repeating "it's obama's fault" ad nauseam to get my kicks.

[Nick]

... and if responsibility does in fact lie with Obama (such as the topic of this thread) it's just "getting your kicks" to highlight that?

Anyway,

Piece of shit or not, the ISS is the basis of building better permanent orbital facilities. This is ultimately what we are going to need to feasably establish colonies down the road. I know you love bitching about Obama for whatever reason, but the fact is he is the first president since JFK to actually mention the space program, without being prompted by a disaster or some crazy military idea. W only spouted that shit off after the Columbia rained shit all over the south and Reagan was only interested in a cold war boondockle that would make him look tough on the commies.

This is simply not true.

Putting a man on the moon will not serve any real purpose.

How do you know?

There are no natural resources, atmosphere, or even strategic reasons to be there.

Do you know what natural resources lie underneath the Moon's surface? or what the results of scientific research on the moon, about the make up of the moon and the technological approaches needed to do these things will be?

I'd love to be able to know the future like that, we may as well just give up on scientific research since apparently we don't need to actually do the science now, the answers are already apparently self evident.

Wonder where I've heard that before?

The other two are ultimately not good reasons to go to the moon anyway. As if we should need a reason.

Mars has, at least, the potential to be developed into a self sustaining colony and the science that arises out of terraforming could ultimately be used to correct climate change issues on earth.

So it's pointless to go to the moon but it's not pointless to go to mars and terraform it (which is currently beyond impossible)?

Mars also has proximity to the asteroid belt, which has tons of potential minerals to be mined (long term of course) and has the closest environment to earth.

Yeah, and to have manned missions to Mars, you need practice leaps to the Moon, such as was already planned.

Another option is one of the gas giant moons that we know to have water, but thats a long ass ways out and probably the next step after mars.

Yep.


The point is, you have to walk before you can run, Obama's just sent us back to crawling. For someone who claims to be such a visionary, it's a pretty embarrassing turn of events.

[Leonaerd]

The point is, you have to walk before you can run, Obama's just sent us back to crawling. For someone who claims to be such a visionary, it's a pretty embarrassing turn of events.

It's better to intelligently go from the ground up, now, than waste another decade by hastily manning a failed expedition. I think that is closer to Obama's vision.

[miir]

The point is, you have to walk before you can run, Obama's just sent us back to crawling.

If sending a man to the moon is walking, how the fuck can sending a man back to the moon, 40 years later be considered running?

Fucking moron.

[Nick]

Sending men to the moon with the technology we have now is vastly different to sending them to the moon 40 years ago. Scientific research has, believe it or not, altered our understanding of the moon since men last walked on it. Sorry you didn't bother reading about that.

Secondly, if, (and let's be on topic here) Jice's admittedly awesome plan is to engage with travel around the solar system, then saying we shouldn't bother to send manned space missions anywhere because, hey, we already did it 40 years ago duuuuuuuuude, is effectively like saying "oh, we don't need to develop any new airplanes, the wright brothers already invented the best one man - fucking moron lol."

You're not usually a vulture, fuck knows why you decided to compromise your intelligence in this thread just to make an embarrassingly shit one liner.

Surprised you made an unusually idiotic post, you seem like a decent chap.

Cheers,

Nick.

[Winnow]

[Sylvus]

Sending men to the moon with the technology we have now is vastly different to sending them to the moon 40 years ago. Scientific research has, believe it or not, altered our understanding of the moon since men last walked on it. Sorry you didn't bother reading about that.

Secondly, if, (and let's be on topic here) Jice's admittedly awesome plan is to engage with travel around the solar system, then saying we shouldn't bother to send manned space missions anywhere because, hey, we already did it 40 years ago duuuuuuuuude, is effectively like saying "oh, we don't need to develop any new airplanes, the wright brothers already invented the best one man - fucking moron lol."

You're not usually a vulture, fuck knows why you decided to compromise your intelligence in this thread just to make an embarrassingly shit one liner.

Surprised you made an unusually idiotic post, you seem like a decent chap.

Cheers,

Nick.

Perhaps you didn't bother reading that they are scrapping that particular project because it was underfunded, behind schedule and based on that same technology that we used 40 years ago. They aren't cutting NASA's budget, they aren't shutting down space exploration, they are cutting a program that isn't on track to complete its goals before it becomes too big of a time- and money-sink. Perhaps you're unaware that NASA is always going to have a finite budget (I'd be happy to see the realization of your dream of the military's budget being cut in favor of NASA, but that isn't going to happen), but with that in mind, I'd rather they didn't waste their limited funds.

You also might want to work on your metaphors, since the one you used about the Wright Brothers' plane pretty closely fits Obama's plans for space... almost to the point of it being literal. He is scrapping the plan that would rebuild the Wright Brothers' plane in order to fund the next generation of planes. Why are you against this?

The moon mission, which had already cost $9.1 billion, was based on old technology and revisiting old places astronauts had already been, officials said. The previous NASA chief, in selling the old moon plan, had even called it "Apollo on steroids." The rockets were based on space shuttle boosters.

"Simply put, we're putting the science back into the rocket science at NASA," White House science adviser John Holdren said at a budget briefing Monday.

The $4 billion that NASA spends yearly on human space exploration will now be used for what NASA and White House officials called dramatic changes in rocketry, including in-orbit fueling. They said eventually those new technologies would be used to send astronauts to a nearby asteroid, a brief foray back to the moon, or the Martian moons.

So yeah, you do need to crawl before you can walk, but at some point most people eventually stop crawling and start walking.

"The truth is we were not on a sustainable path to get back to the moon," NASA administrator Charles Bolden said in a telephone conference call. "We were neglecting investments in key technologies."

I'm more inclined to trust the opinions of, you know, scientists and former astronauts and people who have dedicated their lives to the study of space and the advancement of man's reach into the cosmos over that of some douchebag college kid from Ireland who gets a raging boner every time the US makes any sort of decision whatsoever just so he has something to rail on and on about. It's laughable how you talk with an air of superiority about how "normally you seem so smart, i'm surprised you're such an ignorant cunt right now". How do you find time to be chief of the grammar police, the world's foremost authority on US government policy, and the arbiter of intelligent posting and good opinions, all the while pursuing an advanced degree in rocket science?!? Oh, that's right, you don't actually know shit, you just suffer the curse of arrogant youth. I remember when I was young and had read a couple books and thought I knew everything; those were good times, enjoy them!

You are more than welcome to encourage your government to spend all of your tax dollars recreating whatever scientific experiments and manned space missions that Ireland was famous for in the 1960s, I would prefer that my government spent my money on actual advances.

Cheers,

Sylvus.

[Jice Virago]

@Nick-
Perhaps you need to back your arguments with more than a simple "Nuh-uh!" itemized to every statement of mine you disagree with. Its hard to take you seriously at all.

@Sylvus-
I imagine a drunken irishman with a potatoe bomb shoved up his ass is about as close as Ireland ever got to a space program, since they have been too busy killing each other the last half century.

[Nick]

Oh shit two VV heavyweights have rode in their twin horses, sanctimony and pretentious, and are here to deliver the truth to the savage fucking irishman.

What a fucking embarrassment you both are.

[Canelek]

It certainly not unheard of to scrap old programs in lieu of modernized programs. Although our accomplishments in the Apollo era were historic, re-prioritizing was necessary. It's just bad business to stick with the status quo. Refocusing on fundamental scientific research in our solar system while at the same time promoting the advancement of technology is a better way to spend tax $$$.

[Aardor]

http://books.google.com/books?id=xzCK6- ... q=&f=false

[Winnow]

You people realize that the United States is completely reliant on RUSSIA to get it's Astronauts to the ridiculous International Space Station don't you? America can't do squat on the ISS without paying the Russians 50 million for a seat on a Soyuz rocket.

The U.S. has gone from being the #1 space nation by far, to being reliant on it's cold war adversary if they want to put an American in space.

You suck. Obama sucks.

McCain would have funded the mission to the Moon as well as increase the budget for everything else in NASA. I envision a dual launchpad, with two rockets. One headed to the Moon and one headed to wipe out Tehran. The simultaneous launch would have been spectacular!

Anyway, thanks to YOU and your relatives, we're stuck sucking Russian cock to get a ride to space for the foreseeable future...a disgusting turn of events.

[Zaelath]

You people realize that the United States is completely reliant on RUSSIA to get it's Astronauts to the ridiculous International Space Station don't you? America can't do squat on the ISS without paying the Russians 50 million for a seat on a Soyuz rocket.

Fucking bargain: http://www.nasa.gov/centers/kennedy/abo ... aq.html#10 (which says it costs $450 million per shuttle mission)

Or you're not a fiscal conservative when it comes to spending on putting people in a space station you don't think serves any purpose in the first place?

[Leonaerd]

I feel that outer space will be really important, but it's not worth spending money on -today-. It would be nice to have space travel, trade routes between planets, low-gravity vacations on the planet formerly known as Pluto. Contrary to popular opinion, however, I don't feel manning a ship makes any sense for a very long time. We don't have the technology to justify the amount we spend on very little progress. Let technology evolve as it does and come back in several decades and spend a lot less money on a much better return. It's a simplistic argument, but we're so very far away from doing anything important, and given how much attention is needed on planet earth I feel that space travel is superfluous for now.

Oh shit two VV heavyweights have rode in their twin horses, sanctimony and pretentious, and are here to deliver the truth to the savage fucking irishman.

What a fucking embarrassment you both are.

your use of sarcasm doesn't negate the fact that you do flaunt text-based savagery. If VV was Rome: Total War you'd be a berserker. Only VV doesn't have swords.

pretention is a pretty big word. within it lies "tent." sanctimonious is a big word, too. within it lies "timon." i went to college.

would you be proud to show arguments such as these to your friends? I'd be like "dog why u so angry bro"

[Keverian FireCry]

Nick, you need stop throwing a tantrum every time someone disagrees with your position. Plenty of people have posted with reasonable arguments yet all you seem to do is reply with stubbornness and vitriol. I'm pretty sure your more mature than that.

[Noysyrump]

Teenybloke found his schtik. Let him have his fun.

I for one know we wont do any spectacular space crap for a while... why you ask? Well, frankly, there is no reason too.

Back in 1960 there was a huge juggernaught poised to steamrole western Europe. So, in order to make them NOT do that, we had to scare the bajeezus outta them. Best way to do that was with nukes. ICBMs and rocket ships are one in the same. Putting one on the moon told Moscow they had nowhere to hide. Then the 80s. Reagans big military stance brought the Shuttle into the picture. The shuttle was nothing more than a test bed orbital bomber. Moscow knew this, and even tried to match it.

Now, with the big bad ruskies waving thier own red, white and blue. Playin with instead of against, it lies on china to really get beligerent before the Mil-Ind will gear up for more space bangs n booms. So unless things heat up with china i expect nothing spectacular to come out of NASA.

[Sylvus]

Oh shit two VV heavyweights have rode in their twin horses, sanctimony and pretentious, and are here to deliver the truth to the savage fucking irishman.

What a fucking embarrassment you both are.

No, silly, our twin horses' names are similar parts of speech!

Just so we're clear on this, I hope you know that I don't hold anything against you because you're Irish, far from it. We have douchebag college students who think they know everything over here in the good ole' prisoner-torturin', war-mongerin', space-fearin', can't-do-anything-right U. S. of A. They're just like you and I don't care for them, either. It has nothing to do with any generalizations, I prefer to dislike people on an individual basis.

And kudos to you for providing another cogent argument! You're really starting to sway opinions there, Professor. How could anyone not agree with gems like:

Asshole

hurr hurr, obama is killing the space program so he can invade third-world countries

check out this hardcore zinger, sylvus. i'll use sarcasm in an hilarious manner in this third post in the thread that i created to further avoid presenting a reasonable critique of the subject i brought up, or any point or counterpoint whatsoever. don't need to waste time on that shite when you're as learned as i am!

thanks, fairweather, but didn't you read what i just told sylvus?

drolgin: owned! WHO ELSE WANTS SOME?!?

stfu drolgin, even when i'm not actually saying anything, i'm winning the debate. and now, in my sixth post in my thread, i'll take some time to provide a thoroughly flaccid fisking of jice's opinions, countering them with my own, much more authoritative opinions![ed. note: at least he's providing an opinion here, that's better than he did on the whole first page of his thread!]

[ed. note: this is his 7th post in the thread]boy, miir, i thought you were one of us; erudite. how could you stoop so low beneath yourself?

i've actually got the balls to call others pretentious and sanctimonious after my whole posting history in general and specifically my last (the 7th) post in this thread, either of which could be used to teach middle schoolers the meanings of the words "pretentious" and "sanctimonious". in fact, just to reiterate these qualities that i so well embody, "What a fucking embarrassment you both are."

Man, when you actually go through and re-read someone's posts word-for-word, it really helps illuminate why they are the proverbial "nails on the chalkboard". You are cartalas with a thesaurus, Nick. I finally understand it. I wonder when you'll start pm'ing me to ban yourself?

[Jice Virago]

Cartalas actually had friends, though.....

[Kaldaur]

We have douchebag college students who think they know everything over here in the good ole' prisoner-torturin', war-mongerin', space-fearin', can't-do-anything-right U. S. of A. They're just like you and I don't care for them, either. It has nothing to do with any generalizations.

You've got to be fucking kidding me, right? You're acting like Sarah Palin trying to tap dance around the word retard. You make a generalization, then say it's not about generalizations. Make up your mind. And if you don't like someone's opinion, how about basing it off the content, and not the age or the current education level of your target. You can't mock a person because they don't meet your age requirements for discussion, or because they're going after a certain degree their voice is invalidated.
I don't usually even say anything about the 'drama' on this board. I think it's childish, and no matter the roots of the server and the flame wars that ensued, this is a god damned internet chat site for ex-nerds and fucks with a questionable social life. If you're going to have a discussion, then let's discuss it. Surely we can leave the flag waving or chest thumping for the medieval apes at the Tea Party Convention. There is enough idiocy and backwards thinking in this world without having to bring it here. This is a discussion about something we all take seriously, space and humanity's part in it. Surely we could try, for at least one thread, to act the part of civilized frontal lobe-enabled assholes and keep to the topic. The hilarious thing is, we can't have this debate most other places in the country (or world for our international viewers). Most citizens couldn't even tell you the name of a space shuttle, much less what direction the new NASA program is heading. Let's take advantage of one of the only fucking places we can toss around ideas and policies without getting into the "Obama shoved his space shuttle dick up my grandma's spiral galaxy" or "US'll come stomping on Ireland's space program, yo!" You're all intelligent guys, and believe it or not, some of us like watching the different viewpoints getting tossed around. But orgasming all over a thread just because you think you're going to score some imaginary political points is bullshit.

[Sylvus]

We have douchebag college students who think they know everything over here in the good ole' prisoner-torturin', war-mongerin', space-fearin', can't-do-anything-right U. S. of A. They're just like you and I don't care for them, either. It has nothing to do with any generalizations.

You've got to be fucking kidding me, right? You're acting like Sarah Palin trying to tap dance around the word retard. You make a generalization, then say it's not about generalizations. Make up your mind. And if you don't like someone's opinion, how about basing it off the content, and not the age or the current education level of your target. You can't mock a person because they don't meet your age requirements for discussion, or because they're going after a certain degree their voice is invalidated.
I don't usually even say anything about the 'drama' on this board. I think it's childish, and no matter the roots of the server and the flame wars that ensued, this is a god damned internet chat site for ex-nerds and fucks with a questionable social life. If you're going to have a discussion, then let's discuss it. Surely we can leave the flag waving or chest thumping for the medieval apes at the Tea Party Convention. There is enough idiocy and backwards thinking in this world without having to bring it here. This is a discussion about something we all take seriously, space and humanity's part in it. Surely we could try, for at least one thread, to act the part of civilized frontal lobe-enabled assholes and keep to the topic. The hilarious thing is, we can't have this debate most other places in the country (or world for our international viewers). Most citizens couldn't even tell you the name of a space shuttle, much less what direction the new NASA program is heading. Let's take advantage of one of the only fucking places we can toss around ideas and policies without getting into the "Obama shoved his space shuttle dick up my grandma's spiral galaxy" or "US'll come stomping on Ireland's space program, yo!" You're all intelligent guys, and believe it or not, some of us like watching the different viewpoints getting tossed around. But orgasming all over a thread just because you think you're going to score some imaginary political points is bullshit.

In retrospect, I worded the first part poorly. I meant that I don't base my dislike on creed, color, sexual preference or nationality. I don't give a shit that nick is Irish, as he seemed to imply with "savage fucking irishman". You are correct that "know-it-all college students" is a generalization, however I don't care for them on an individual basis, if that makes sense. Those that I have dealt with, and I personally probably was one at one point in my life, have left a bad taste in my mouth. Perhaps that was akin to Palin praising Rush Limbaugh using the word retard and calling for Rahm Emanuel's resignation for the same thing, my apologies.

As far as the rest of your post, you and I have the same goals. Re-read the first couple points of my last post. The reason this thread has devolved is precisely because a discussion was not occurring (on Nick's part). He barely stated an opinion other than "Obama's an asshole", "America should stop killing babies, we MUST GO TO THE MOON" and "<insert off-topic criticism of someone else's intelligence>". That's not going to spur discourse, at least from me. Imaginary political points? I don't know or care anything about that, I just enjoy a nice flame war from time to time; it spices things up a bit. Sorry if that's not your cup of tea.

Oh and...

And if you don't like someone's opinion, how about basing it off the content, and not the age or the current education level of your target. You can't mock a person because they don't meet your age requirements for discussion, or because they're going after a certain degree their voice is invalidated.

I agree with this statement as well, but when said person is talking with an air of superiority or saying that another's opinion is invalid without any supporting evidence, it's completely fair to call into question their credentials as an expert.

[Winnow]

Obama is causing this turmoil on VV!

Kaldaur, I enjoy your posts on this board. Don't let the "flame" part of VV get to you. Finding the quality content in VV posts requires a little more digging than on your standard run of the mill board.

[Jice Virago]

Did everyone's penis drop off rescently? Heated discussions are what created this board. Welcome to the last ten years of VV history.

As for bashing Nick, he is a young know it all asshole. I know this because back when I had more hardons than sense, I was a lot like him (I'm guessing Sylvus was too) maybe without as much "FUCK USA!" vitrol and with more detailed arguments supporting my opinions. I didn't especially like me back then and I really don't like the me from back then now that I am older, married, and settled. I sure as hell am not going to take his shit if he can't back his bullshit one liner bitches with coherent arguments. The fact that he is from the one country that no one but England has ever been bored enough to invade is just an amusing means to pissing him off, since generalized ethnic bashes are all that seem to register on his testosterone and potato fueled little brain. I could care less that he is Irish, actually, but I do care that he is stupid.

And Winnow, really, VV doesn't need a Fox News opinion anchor making up false anti Obama drama. We already have Midnyte.

[Funkmasterr]

Personally, I am with Kal for the most part on this one. The flame shit is pretty much old to me, whether it's what made this board or not (which technically, it isn't - we left the old boards because of swearing in particular, not "flaming"). I will say Jice, it's amusing that you are trying to justify yourself the way you are, since every_single_post you make is stated in the most arrogant dick-headed way possible.

And for the big finale, I can't fucking believe I'm doing this and I might lose sleep over it tonight, but I'm gonna defend Nick. I will tell you that I think a lot of what really irritated me about him was misconception of his intention. After adding him on Facebook and having a few conversations via chat/posts there with him, I can tell you that him (and a lot of his friends, judging by the discussions I've seen) are just very sarcastic and the such. I think a lot of what he says that comes off in a very Jice-ish manner is just to mess with/rile people up and in his case, sarcasm really isn't communicated well via message board.

I could be wrong, and he can still shove his anti-American sentiment up his drunken Irish ass But I had to chime in.

[*~*stragi*~*]

this thread

[Kaldaur]

As I told Sylvus in a PM, this is just an issue I take seriously. I truly believe that our future is entwined in the stars, and that every dollar we put towards it now will have an unimaginable dividend down the road. Regardless of whether or not you agree with the administration's new plan, we all seem to agree the space program is vital, and that's what important. Too many people today are uninvolved in the process or simply don't care about it. Perhaps that has to do with the relatively unexciting path NASA has walked the past twenty-five years. For those of us who enjoy exploration, the findings of the recent quarter century are startling in their implications. In our own back woods we have found simple life on our satellite and ice on a planet. This was simply unimaginable in the recent past. Imagine what things we'll uncover another twenty-five years from now.
I have always used VV as a place to test my own ideas, and I know that others have as well. Half the time in this forum, I would take a stance just to see the arguments against it. I can do this when I'm talking to people who are educated and intelligent people.

Did everyone's penis drop off rescently? Heated discussions are what created this board. Welcome to the last ten years of VV history.

I haven't forgotten where VV came from, Jice. Far from it. But come to mention it, I did find a rash this morning when I was interrogating Captain Cyclops, so now I'm concerned. I will pm you pics to get your input.


Sort of re-railing the topic, but I read this morning that the lack of details on the new plan might have been caused by the OMB only giving NASA the firm budget proposal numbers 48 hours before the release of the budget. Normally, the money budgeted to NASA is usually figured out far earlier (back by Thanksgiving or Christmas) so that NASA can plan out comprehensively what they will use it on, both so members of Congress know what they're voting on and so it can be sold to the American public. To go from a period of two months all the way down to two days shows that NASA didn't have time to prepare a large FY11 release. As to the reasons why they got it late, it could be anything. From the sound of it, I doubt much attention got paid to NASA at all, which angers me. Perhaps some of the money was still in limbo, which would explain the lateness of the budget allocation. But still, you could at least give them a heads up as to how much money they'd be working with.

I know this would raise some problems, but I think one solution would be to create a separate, long term allocation to NASA that would guarantee certain funds would head their way, so that decades-plus projects wouldn't need to be worried about course corrections every four years. I realize this would open them up to corruption, misappropriation of guaranteed funds, etc. Still, it's troubling that NASA was given so little thought by OMB.

[Keverian FireCry]

And for the big finale, I can't fucking believe I'm doing this and I might lose sleep over it tonight, but I'm gonna defend Nick. I will tell you that I think a lot of what really irritated me about him was misconception of his intention. After adding him on Facebook and having a few conversations via chat/posts there with him, I can tell you that him (and a lot of his friends, judging by the discussions I've seen) are just very sarcastic and the such. I think a lot of what he says that comes off in a very Jice-ish manner is just to mess with/rile people up and in his case, sarcasm really isn't communicated well via message board.

The only reason you're defending him now is that he has been belligerently flinging crap at Obama the last several months. You two have found a common enemy. Grats on your newfound friendship!

I've had plenty of conversations with Nick over the years as well, which is why I can tell you that he doesn't always act like a pathetic douche-bag. It just so happens that he is now, which is why people are calling him on it.

[Funkmasterr]

And for the big finale, I can't fucking believe I'm doing this and I might lose sleep over it tonight, but I'm gonna defend Nick. I will tell you that I think a lot of what really irritated me about him was misconception of his intention. After adding him on Facebook and having a few conversations via chat/posts there with him, I can tell you that him (and a lot of his friends, judging by the discussions I've seen) are just very sarcastic and the such. I think a lot of what he says that comes off in a very Jice-ish manner is just to mess with/rile people up and in his case, sarcasm really isn't communicated well via message board.

The only reason you're defending him now is that he has been belligerently flinging crap at Obama the last several months. You two have found a common enemy. Grats on your newfound friendship!

I've had plenty of conversations with Nick over the years as well, which is why I can tell you that he doesn't always act like a pathetic douche-bag. It just so happens that he is now, which is why people are calling him on it.

Right, because my opinion on everything must in some way be related to a dislike for Obama, and not for the very clearly stated reason in my post. You guys are fucking beyond obnoxious.

[Jice Virago]

Yeah I think Kev is mistaking Funk for Winnow.

As far as me stating things in a dickish manner, sure I do that a lot, but really every attempt to reach out to certain people has made me regret it. You (Funk) have been the most reasonable conservative poster on the board lately, but I confess I may be biased because we are both midwesterners and I understand where your opinions come from a lot better. Incidentally, everyone who knows me both online and in person has stated that I am pretty much the same in both environments, so I guess that makes me an arrogant prick in real life too.

And yes, the board may have been started over profanity, but remember we got booted for criticising the nazi mods for the ham handed moderation. Also remember that people flamed the ever loving crap out of each other, often with personal attacks, over trivial bullshit in a video game. The only rule we have ever had is to not bash people in the RL picture thread for their appearance. Now the crap we argue over is confined to sports and politics, mostly. People feel more personally about it, so it seems more severe when someone gets flamed. But seriously, take a peek in the archives at any random steamroll/cleric thx epic deguild/cyber drama thread from when we were all still playing EQ and compare that vitrol to our current threads. I am not saying we should go back to that (though I wouldn't mind), but flaming someone for being a douche is hardly worth getting butthurt over.

And yes, Nick is a massive douche. Sarcasm is hard to convey over the internet, because it requires a certain level of intellegence to do so. For the mouth breathers, there are emoticons. Nick is just flailing away, too lazy of inept to back his arguments. He is the Cartalas of the left, and I for one do not like him any more than Cart. In fact, this is one of those occasions where I started saying something positive in an attempt to be civil (examine my first post in the thread) and was rewarded with a bunch of one liner bullshit responses devoid of substance. Guess I am an idiot, too, for attempting to communicate polysylabic arguments to raging humourless dicks.

[Funkmasterr]

Yeah I think Kev is mistaking Funk for Winnow.

As far as me stating things in a dickish manner, sure I do that a lot, but really every attempt to reach out to certain people has made me regret it. You (Funk) have been the most reasonable conservative poster on the board lately, but I confess I may be biased because we are both midwesterners and I understand where your opinions come from a lot better. Incidentally, everyone who knows me both online and in person has stated that I am pretty much the same in both environments, so I guess that makes me an arrogant prick in real life too.

And yes, the board may have been started over profanity, but remember we got booted for criticising the nazi mods for the ham handed moderation. Also remember that people flamed the ever loving crap out of each other, often with personal attacks, over trivial bullshit in a video game. The only rule we have ever had is to not bash people in the RL picture thread for their appearance. Now the crap we argue over is confined to sports and politics, mostly. People feel more personally about it, so it seems more severe when someone gets flamed. But seriously, take a peek in the archives at any random steamroll/cleric thx epic deguild/cyber drama thread from when we were all still playing EQ and compare that vitrol to our current threads. I am not saying we should go back to that (though I wouldn't mind), but flaming someone for being a douche is hardly worth getting butthurt over.

And yes, Nick is a massive douche. Sarcasm is hard to convey over the internet, because it requires a certain level of intellegence to do so. For the mouth breathers, there are emoticons. Nick is just flailing away, too lazy of inept to back his arguments. He is the Cartalas of the left, and I for one do not like him any more than Cart. In fact, this is one of those occasions where I started saying something positive in an attempt to be civil (examine my first post in the thread) and was rewarded with a bunch of one liner bullshit responses devoid of substance. Guess I am an idiot, too, for attempting to communicate polysylabic arguments to raging humourless dicks.

I understand where you're coming from, and to be honest I think anyone that knows me well in real life would tell you that I'm really sarcastic and fairly commonly the one cracking people up. I've just gotten bored of the same old insults over the same old shit over and over again, I'd much rather just talk about shit. That being said I think we all know that if I'm provoked enough, that all goes out the window.

As far as your opinion of nick, you have all stated your own pretty clearly, and I'm not trying to change your mind. I was just stating my (recent) personal experience with him, and I assure you it doesn't have a goddamn thing to do with Obama.

I was also trying to have a conversation about this topic until the bullshit started. I happen to feel too strongly about space to continue the discussion when people start acting like fuckbags.

[*~*stragi*~*]

nick: sylvus: jice: winnow: stragi: kilmoll: sylvos:

i hope this helps guys

[miir]

One small correction:

Kilmoll:

[*~*stragi*~*]

good catch miir!

[Jice Virago]

@Funk
The fuckbaggery began with Nick, actually. He came in channeling Cart when a couple of us stated our opinions and responded like a wounded badger when people asked him to back his refutations. But I am prepared to ignore him for the sake of discussion.

My opinion on the topic remains the same. You do not innovate by repeating what you have already done. Manned Mars missions is what we should be aiming for, along with using the ISS as a stepping stone to building a larger and more robust permanent orbital facility. The shuttles are over two decades old and need to be phased out. Ideally, this should involve a vessel made in orbit that a shuttle like vehicle conveys crew to from the surface to a better space station than what we have now. Self reliant orbital facilities are where our focus should be because it will facilitate service and assembly of craft in orbit and give us options in the event of a series of events like the Columbia occuring again.

[Drolgin Steingrinder]

nick: sylvus: jice: winnow: stragi: kilmoll: sylvos:

i hope this helps guys

what about me tt

[Boogahz]

There isn't a Swede smiley

[Funkmasterr]

@Funk
The fuckbaggery began with Nick, actually. He came in channeling Cart when a couple of us stated our opinions and responded like a wounded badger when people asked him to back his refutations. But I am prepared to ignore him for the sake of discussion.

My opinion on the topic remains the same. You do not innovate by repeating what you have already done. Manned Mars missions is what we should be aiming for, along with using the ISS as a stepping stone to building a larger and more robust permanent orbital facility. The shuttles are over two decades old and need to be phased out. Ideally, this should involve a vessel made in orbit that a shuttle like vehicle conveys crew to from the surface to a better space station than what we have now. Self reliant orbital facilities are where our focus should be because it will facilitate service and assembly of craft in orbit and give us options in the event of a series of events like the Columbia occuring again.

That may be, I wasn't saying that wasn't the case, I just lost interest.

A couple of things;
I think space technology has possibly came a bit further than people realize. My uncle works for a company (won't mention names) that is designing and testing parts of a jet type craft that will be dropped at high altitude and will fly into orbit, he isn't supposed to say much about it so I haven't heard a lot more detail than that, but those are the types of things the private sector is kicking ass on right now. That will likely be used at first to do things like go to station, etc, but the technology is along the lines of what will be needed to make it further into space (Mars for example).

Where I'm going with this is we need to do this research/approach these technological advancements in very much a "step by step" way. To get to Mars is going to take a couple of things; better/completely different shuttle/craft technology, potentially new fuel options depending on said technology amongst many other things. To actually inhabit Mars we are going to need a way to warm up the little atmosphere there is to release chemicals in the ground to create an atmosphere that will actually be sufficient enough for us to be there outside of a space suit/protected facility.

I've read quite a few theories/books on how we could get to Mars, and it seems like the generally accepted idea so far is launching two shuttles, one that will be un manned and will go first, land there and will have a mechanism on board to make fuel. After some time, the second shuttle would go out with the people, land, and will be re fueled by the ship that arrived there first for the astronauts return flight.

Now, I can see where test flights to the moon would be advantageous in testing out this kind of technology and how it will work, because we would be less reliant on the technology actually working (if the fuel wasn't made by the other ship for the return flight, they would still be able to get back as they wouldn't necessarily need it). It would also be safer to do shorter range testing of any new shuttle technology.

I realize that this wasn't stated as the plan for the moon mission coming up, but to be honest we don't know for sure what their plans/intentions for the trip there were, or what technology they may have had to survey the moon, it's makeup, etc while they were there. I mean take fucking for example.. Did you pop your cherry with your high school sweetheart, take a break for a few years, then immediately start planning on how you were going to fuck Jessica Alba in the back of a limo on the way to the Grammy's?

I just hope that people realize that you don't go from a trip to the moon 50 years ago, then 40 years without anything besides trips to station, and then make the next major operation a trip to mars. You can throw all the money at the technology that you want, but they are going to need to test it on shorter range goals first. I realize that we basically went to the moon without shorter range testing, however we didn't really know what the hell we were doing then, didn't know the technology, pretty much didn't know a damn thing. Now we have had manned space flights, we know a lot more about potential risks, the technology and our approach to things has came a long ways, and there is no need to try and take a giant blind leap.

Also, the idea that a trip to the moon isn't exciting just because we did it 50 years ago is fucking insanity to me. You would be watching in HD while a PERSON was on THE FUCKING MOON. That is mind bogglingly, holy-fucking-shit awesome in my opinion, and always will be.

[Aslanna]

40 years.

And nobody isn't saying it wouldn't be "exciting". That isn't the point. Think big picture, guy.

[Funkmasterr]

40 years.

And nobody isn't saying it wouldn't be "exciting". That isn't the point. Think big picture, guy.

Corrected, sorry.

Sending people to the moon was cool in the 60s.

I am thinking big picture, guy. If you don't know what you're talking about or have something constructive to contribute, go away.

[miir]

The big picture is progression... not regression.
Doing something that was done 40 years ago is not progressive.

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

One small correction:

Kilmoll:

that is complete bullshit.








Those appear to be Glocks and I am a 1911 guy.

[Funkmasterr]

The big picture is progression... not regression.
Doing something that was done 40 years ago is not progressive.

Did you even read what I wrote? Jesus christ.

[Aslanna]

And nobody isn't saying it wouldn't be "exciting". That isn't the point. Think big picture, guy.

Sending people to the moon was cool in the 60s.

I am thinking big picture, guy. If you don't know what you're talking about or have something constructive to contribute, go away.

Wow. One person who said it may no longer be "cool"...

I know what I'm talking about. But it's obvious you have no clue on yet another topic.

[Funkmasterr]

And nobody isn't saying it wouldn't be "exciting". That isn't the point. Think big picture, guy.

Sending people to the moon was cool in the 60s.

I am thinking big picture, guy. If you don't know what you're talking about or have something constructive to contribute, go away.

Wow. One person who said it may no longer be "cool"...

I know what I'm talking about. But it's obvious you have no clue on yet another topic.

Nevermind, had a long post typed up but you absolutely aren't worth the energy.

[Aslanna]

You wound me deeply with your non-existent post.

[Keverian FireCry]

Right, because my opinion on everything must in some way be related to a dislike for Obama, and not for the very clearly stated reason in my post. You guys are fucking beyond obnoxious.

Thanks for setting me straight Mr. Highroad. I'm so glad we have people like yourself and Nick to keep us all on a path of constructive debate and deliberation.

[Funkmasterr]

Right, because my opinion on everything must in some way be related to a dislike for Obama, and not for the very clearly stated reason in my post. You guys are fucking beyond obnoxious.

Thanks for setting me straight Mr. Highroad. I'm so glad we have people like yourself and Nick to keep us all on a path of constructive debate and deliberation.

I wrote a long post, to which you and Aslanna have made moronic one sentence responses that the thread would have been much better without.... Who is trying to discuss the topic at hand? Yeah, I thought so.

Maybe you should see if your laptop will fit up your ass, sideways. Maybe that'll help.

[Aslanna]

I wrote a long post, to which you and Aslanna have made moronic one sentence responses that the thread would have been much better without.... Who is trying to discuss the topic at hand? Yeah, I thought so.

Blah blah blah. You're one of the biggest morons around here. As with any thread here anything constructive to be said has already occurred by the time the second page rolls around. If you don't like it leave. Again.

Two lines!