Don't try to break into your own home...

[Soreali]

"JESSE JACKSON IS NOT THE AMBASSADOR OF BLACK PEOPLE!" - Token.
"He told my dad he was." - Stan

QFT

[Funkmasterr]

"JESSE JACKSON IS NOT THE AMBASSADOR OF BLACK PEOPLE!" - Token.
"He told my dad he was." - Stan

QFT

Tell that to the majority of black people that cling to every word he says, yeah more people are getting wise to his bullshit but it's hardly diminished the negative effect he has on society.

[Sueven]

You're kidding yourself if you think you're right on this one, so go ahead and think that if you want, I won't try and stop you anymore.

Oh, there's clearly no point to either of us trying to convince the other, we have antithetical worldviews.

I'll just point out a few things.

You're claiming that "reverse racism," which I understand to be systems of discrimination and discriminatory treatment directed at white people in order to compensate for past discriminatory treatment of racial minorities, is a bigger problem than racism, which I understand to be systems of discrimination and discriminatory treatment directed at minorities (especially blacks, in this context) based on white supremacy.

Here are some negative effects of racism:

Blacks are more than 5 times more likely to go to prison than whites.
More than 1 in 10 black males in their late 20's is currently in prison.
Blacks are three times as likely as whites to live in poverty.
243 blacks have been executed for murdering a white person, while only 15 whites have been executed for murdering a black person, since the reinstatement of the death penalty in 1976.

And so on.

What are the worst consequences of reverse racism? Little Johnny has to go to Michigan State instead of the University of Michigan? SO SAD.

I know what the response is: Those statistics I listed are failures of personal responsibility by individual black people. There is nothing holding down black people except their own unwillingness to succeed. I should just listen to some Bill Cosby.

Personally, I think that's about the dumbest fucking thing I've ever heard. And that's where the real disagreement between you and I lies.

[Fash]

Here are some negative effects of racism:
Blacks are more than 5 times more likely to go to prison than whites.
More than 1 in 10 black males in their late 20's is currently in prison.
Blacks are three times as likely as whites to live in poverty.
243 blacks have been executed for murdering a white person, while only 15 whites have been executed for murdering a black person, since the reinstatement of the death penalty in 1976.

Lol... Are those negative effects of racism, or are they just more likely to be criminals and/or in poverty? Does the racism make them murderers?

[Winnow]

Here are some negative effects of racism:

Blacks are more than 5 times more likely to go to prison than whites.
More than 1 in 10 black males in their late 20's is currently in prison.
Blacks are three times as likely as whites to live in poverty.
243 blacks have been executed for murdering a white person, while only 15 whites have been executed for murdering a black person, since the reinstatement of the death penalty in 1976.

Sure sure...blame it on the white man! The minority white man.

[Nick]

Anyone remember when Winnow used to be funny?

[Xatrei]

not really...

[Aabidano]

Lol... Are those negative effects of racism, or are they just more likely to be criminals and/or in poverty? Does the racism make them murderers?

Or is it a direct result of our welfare state? Cure the reason they're brought up with no hope for betterment besides a handout and things might change. Look at the reasons behind terrorism and they're similar in many ways.

The change can't be driven from outside, we've (unintentionally?) worked very hard to remove all the structure that used to hold the black community together, and replaced it with a faceless "benefit" system. As long as you expect someone else to fix your problems it's easy to self justify criminal actions when they don't.

Criminals don't generally think they're doing wrong, they can fully self justify whatever they've done.

TV, suburbanization and 70 mile commutes are breaking up the rest of the fabric of our society and replacing it with TV commercials.

To the original topic, the professor was being a douche, and the cop was falling back and doing things by the book to cover his butt IMO.

[Funkmasterr]

So, because of things in the past, black people are obviously more likely to live in poverty. Some still do take charge of their lives and go somewhere, so it is possible... How long is the shit that has happened to black people in the past going to continue to be an excuse for them to act the way they do?

They commit the crimes they go to jail for. Tell me how many murders are committed by a black person for whatever reason compared to white. The only part of this anyone can be blamed for is them being in the poverty stricken neighborhoods, but like I said even that excuse can't go on for the rest of time, and no one owes them anything as far as turning the projects into a high rise.

The responsibility doesn't lie in one direction, if black people don't take more responsibility and start raising their kids (specifically in bad neighborhoods really), it won't matter what else changes.

[Aabidano]

The responsibility doesn't lie in one direction, if black people don't take more responsibility and start raising their kids (specifically in bad neighborhoods really), it won't matter what else changes.

Change!

[Sargeras]

Well, they're both getting together with the President on Thursday for "a beer at the White House". We'll probably see some publicity shots of Gates and Crowley shaking hands with the biggest (and fake) smiles.

If Gates and Obama try to turn the visit into an example against Crowley, I hope Crowley just walks out.

Edit: You're right Anna!

[Aslanna]

Well, they're both getting together with the President on Thursday for "a beer at the White House". We'll probably see some publicity shots of Gates and Crowley shaking hands with the biggest (and fake) smiles.

If Gates and Crowley try to turn the visit into an example against Crowley, I hope Crowley just walks out.

I'm guessing you mean Gates and Obama? Yeah.. Damn black man always trying to keep the white man down!

FIGHT THE POWER!

[Spang]

White people have it so bad.

[Sargeras]

White people have it so bad.

Kinda reminds me of this:
http://www.veeshanvault.org/forums/view ... 603#p19603 (what Krimson and Deward said).

Btw, whatever happened to Krimson?

[Spang]

White people have it so bad.

Kinda reminds me of this:
http://www.veeshanvault.org/forums/view ... 603#p19603 (what Krimson and Deward said).

I was being sarcastic.

[Sargeras]

White people have it so bad.

Kinda reminds me of this:
http://www.veeshanvault.org/forums/view ... 603#p19603 (what Krimson and Deward said).

I was being sarcastic.

Oh I know, but saying that reminded me of what Krimson said back in... damn... 2002.

[Aslanna]

Yeah, let's light a candle for all the white people and sing We Shall Overcome. Every night I cry myself to sleep over our plight. Rise up my brothers and sisters! Rise up and RELEASE THE YOKE OF OPRESSION FORCED UPON US BY THE FILTHY LIBERALS AND THEIR BROWN SKINNED MASTERS!

Out of all the posters no longer posting.. I think I miss kyoukan the most.

[Spang]

Out of all the posters no longer posting.. I think I miss kyoukan the most.

I think of her when I masturbate.

[Zaelath]

Out of all the posters no longer posting.. I think I miss kyoukan the most.

I think of her when I masturbate.

I think of you thinking of her when I masturbate.

[Winnow]

Powell: Officer, Gates needed adult supervision

Former Secretary of State Colin Powell said Tuesday that he has been the victim of racial profiling in the past, but that he believes Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. could have been more patient with the police officer who arrested him.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/07/28/ ... index.html

well what do you know? The professor is an asshole. Confirmed!

[Bagar-]

He was having a shitty day, and mouthed off to a police officer. The cop arrested him for it.

No different than being a dick to some guy working at Wendys and having your hamburger spit in. It might be fucked up, but if you're an ass to someone who has authority over you (and your hamburger) you might expect to get spit on. Or something.

I don't think it was a racial issue, so much as the officer being a dick in response to the black guy being a dick.

In the long run, is this even news worthy? Much less sit-down-with-the-President worthy?


Oh, and I'd like to second that being a cop is a JOB, not some sacrosanct position that deserves unending respect and admiration; no more so than the guy working at Wendys. Same applies to the Military. You know what you sign on for, and you do it for a fucking paycheck, same as everybody else. Don't pull some fucking patriotism bullshit either, because if you become a soldier / cop for patriotic reasons, you're a goon.

[Spang]

Same applies to the Military. You know what you sign on for, and you do it for a fucking paycheck, same as everybody else. Don't pull some fucking patriotism bullshit either, because if you become a soldier / cop for patriotic reasons, you're a goon.

[Bagar-]

That hat looks retarded.

[Xatrei]

Go fuck yourself, Bagar. Everyone around here knows that I'm anything but the jingoist, flag waving putz shouting "USA USA USA," but you're in no position to understand or question the motives of those who choose to serve. Sure, some might be doing it for the opportunity to better their lives, and there's nothing wrong with that. I certainly didn't do it for the paycheck (what there is of it). The college money was a nice bonus, but I could have gotten a student loan like most other people. Lots of people choose to be cops, firemen, soldiers, or any other kind of civil servant out of a sense of duty and a desire to serve.

As Spangaloid points out, Tillman (a left-leaning fan of Noam Chomsky, mind you) certainly didn't walk away from his NFL contract to join the Army because he wanted a pay check, and he was most certainly not a goon.

You're right that choosing to serve, whether out of a sense of duty or for the money, doesn't entitle the cops or anyone else to a sense of entitlement or the power trips they're frequently on, but you need to be a bit more mindful of why they might be choosing to do what's often a pretty shitty job. Again, go fuck yourself.

btw - beret > old BDU caps or c*nt caps any day.

[Trek]

Everyone I know learned early on in life that you cannot be beligerant with police, it doesnt matter if they are in the wrong or not, they will never leave a situation where someone is acting stupidly/out of control once they have been called. Your only choice is to comply with what ever they need and they will leave. I had a similar situation happen to me when I locked my keys in my house and the cop was the one that saw me break into my own home, I told him the situation showed my ID and once my ID was confirmed he made me go back into the house and bring him a current bill for the residence to see that everything still as it seemed, sure I was pissed not only because of him asking for even more proof but I was still pissed from having to break into my own house anyways and wanted to put the anger on him, but I knew better. I really dont think I didnt get arrested because I am white as much as I didnt make it more of an issue then it was.


Only read the last few posts, I totally agree with Xatrei last post

[Nick]

Tillman probably should have concentrated harder when reading Chomsky.

As for the topic. Ultimately yeah giving lip to police officers is an inherently dumb thing to do if you have half a brain. But when you're standing in your own hallway, and some mouthy scumbag with a badge on his shirt decides to pull the hard man routine, you'd have to be a balless idiot not to understand when your rights were being infringed upon.

Rights still matter. To some people (these people tend to have an education - such as in this case). Those without tend to bring up Jesse Jackson and go "GODDAMN BLACKS", as evidenced in this thread.

And if it's been controversial? Good? Wasn't that the entire point of his "rebelliousness"? I don't think there is anyone here that could possibly argue that the constant evaluation of police authority, especially in a liberal western democracy, is in any way a bad thing.

Then again, certain people here wouldn't surprise me in the least anymore.

[Winnow]

Obama really screwed up on this one...lol..."beer summit"

Obama would suck both of their cocks at the same time if it would make this mess go away. Obama has lowest approval ratings yet with latest polls.

[Nick]

Approval ratings? This is VV, not stormfront, shut the fuck up and have a bit of goddamn respect for the community you yourself helped build.

Is this you now Winnow?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MI_0Kt_e3Go

Even I'd be shocked at this new level of cringing idiocy you're pushing.

[Winnow]

I helped built the PacifistVault?

[Jice Virago]

No, you helped build DoucheVault.

But on topic, without having been there and knowing how big a dick either party was, the only thing that sticks out in my mind is that the cops felt the need to doctor the report to make themselves look more favorable. On that basis alone, I am prepared to give the "angry black man" the bennefit of the doubt. The one thing about this discussion that continually amazes me is that the same idiots who were all over that texas morons knob for "defending" his property by shooting two people in the back, after defying police orders, are lockstep against this guy mouthing off to the cop for harassing him in his own house. I agree that lipping off to a police officer is never a good idea, but you militia tea bagging retards should realize that cops arresting you (after they establish that you are indeed on your own property) just for mouthing off in your own home is a bigger threat to your liberty than Barack the Magic Negro talking about taking your guns away.

[Funkmasterr]

No, you helped build DoucheVault.

But on topic, without having been there and knowing how big a dick either party was, the only thing that sticks out in my mind is that the cops felt the need to doctor the report to make themselves look more favorable. On that basis alone, I am prepared to give the "angry black man" the bennefit of the doubt. The one thing about this discussion that continually amazes me is that the same idiots who were all over that texas morons knob for "defending" his property by shooting two people in the back, after defying police orders, are lockstep against this guy mouthing off to the cop for harassing him in his own house. I agree that lipping off to a police officer is never a good idea, but you militia tea bagging retards should realize that cops arresting you (after they establish that you are indeed on your own property) just for mouthing off in your own home is a bigger threat to your liberty than Barack the Magic Negro talking about taking your guns away.

I don't think anyone is implying you are wrong, fuckhead.

Both situations could have been avoided by common sense. Don't steal shit from a house in Texas if you don't want to get shot, and don't mouth off to a cop if you don't want to get arrested. Frankly, your opinion in the matter doesn't count and neither does anyone else's here. Those are simple concepts whether you agree with them or not. And if you do either of those things, deal with the consequences yourself and don't look for anyone to feel sorry for your dumb ass.

Given the situation (bolded), this couldn't be a more idiotic statement. Whether he was in his home or not, the cops came there because the house was being broken into. They were there to protect him, and he couldn't keep his mouth shut and let them leave, he asked for what he got - this was no major violation of rights like taking away peoples right to arms would be.

Nice try though, it's always fun watching you stop by to make a arrogant fucking comment every few months.

[Jice Virago]

I know that you are factually challenged, but two points:

The cops did doctor the report altering what was reported by the dispatcher, after the incident.

The cop on the scene had established (by his own admission) that the guy was the lawful owner of the property and that no laws had been broken. He then pressed the guy and the guy (being uppity and all) was verbally abrassive in response. So, essentially the cop arrested the guy for mouthing off on his own property.

Those are not opinions. They are established facts. What would your reaction be if a cop pressed you after you had established you were in your own home? If we go by your internet tough guy militia persona, you would "git yer gun" and engage in the Castle Doctorine. Of course, we both know you would, at best, lip off under your breath and quickly appologize when the cop reached for his cuffs. Fortunately for you, you are not a black liberal elderly proffessor (read uppity intellectual elitist darky) in Tea Bagger central, so you wouldn't be made an example of like this idiot was. And, yes, the guy was an idiot. You don't lip off to a card carrying redneck cop if you are a black man being accused of breaking in to a house any more than my white ass is going to drive up to Compton and tell a bunch of the locals that they need to stop engaging in welfare fraud. We might both be in the right, but its usually not a good idea to poke the bear if you don't have to.

[Funkmasterr]

I know that you are factually challenged, but two points:

The cops did doctor the report altering what was reported by the dispatcher, after the incident.

The cop on the scene had established (by his own admission) that the guy was the lawful owner of the property and that no laws had been broken. He then pressed the guy and the guy (being uppity and all) was verbally abrassive in response. So, essentially the cop arrested the guy for mouthing off on his own property.

Those are not opinions. They are established facts. What would your reaction be if a cop pressed you after you had established you were in your own home? If we go by your internet tough guy militia persona, you would "git yer gun" and engage in the Castle Doctorine. Of course, we both know you would, at best, lip off under your breath and quickly appologize when the cop reached for his cuffs. Fortunately for you, you are not a black liberal elderly proffessor (read uppity intellectual elitist darky) in Tea Bagger central, so you wouldn't be made an example of like this idiot was. And, yes, the guy was an idiot. You don't lip off to a card carrying redneck cop if you are a black man being accused of breaking in to a house any more than my white ass is going to drive up to Compton and tell a bunch of the locals that they need to stop engaging in welfare fraud. We might both be in the right, but its usually not a good idea to poke the bear if you don't have to.

The major difference here then is you seem to want to put the weight more on the cops. I put it more on the dude because like I've said before, he could have taken it up with their commanding officers/lawyers etc later, kept his cool then and the situation would have never escalated.

My family is no stranger to cops, I've been in my fair share of trouble, I just bailed my brother out for the I-don't-know-how-many time, but I have learned from that.. Once the cops show up you just cooperate and get out of there as easily as you can, they always win and it doesn't matter if you are right or wrong, so I don't feel bad for him - of all people he should know that..

[Jice Virago]

I agree that you give the cops more weight, if all other factors are equal. The fact that they doctored the report pretty much throws that out the window. Now we have this asshole making a big public spectical out of a rather pointless incident both parties should have handled differently and a bunch of racist shitbag wingnuts in full faux outrage mode over the fact that Obama wants to smooth the situation out over a couple of beers. The irony being, of course, that W was originally backed by these same people on the premise that he is the guy you would rather have a beer with...

The problem is that the cops fucked the situation up for no good reason beyond profiling and they obviously knew it because if they had left the damn reports alone a lot of centrists (like myself) would have sided completely with them on this issue. Integrity is like your daughter's virginity; once you ruin it, you are not going to get it back. People in positions of authority in a free democracy need integrity more than anything else for the system to function, because without it there is no trust and we are basically done as a free society. This guy might have been an idiot, probably irratable from being locked out of his own house after a long ass trip and deffinately irratable from just plain being an old fuck, but he did not lie or otherwise compromise his integrity. The cops did and thats why people are pissed about this situation at them. Other cops who actually do maintain their poise and operate honestly look bad because these tools tried to fudge a report. Worse, this grumpy ass old man gets to play the race card on a national stage because of these dipshits. If this were a couple of months and lawsuits ago, they probably would have tasered the fuck out of him and we would have a bunch of other shit on our hands right now.

The cop really should have just issued a citation for impeding an investigation and not hauled the guy in, instead letting the guy make an ass out of himself.