PTR 2.4

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » February 20, 2008, 1:20 pm

Psyloche wrote:Just curious, why would you avoid doing Arena teams as you gear up? It only costs you points that you could be earning now. The whole "Welfare epics" thing and all, besides if you're not that bad at PvP, it's easy to win a few games with no Resilience. As long as you use good execution (timing CC, Offensive cooldowns, etc) then you can still drop people.

20 minute 2v2 que times is enough to make me avoid arenas. I'll add that Resto druid/Pallie + lock/Warrior is the other reason. Last time I did my 10 arenas, 7 of 10 teams were resto druid/ms warrior. Fuck that. That is no where near free epics.

Aardor · Post by **Aardor** » February 20, 2008, 1:24 pm

Fairweather Pure wrote:
Psyloche wrote:Just curious, why would you avoid doing Arena teams as you gear up? It only costs you points that you could be earning now. The whole "Welfare epics" thing and all, besides if you're not that bad at PvP, it's easy to win a few games with no Resilience. As long as you use good execution (timing CC, Offensive cooldowns, etc) then you can still drop people.
20 minute 2v2 que times is enough to make me avoid arenas. I'll add that Resto druid/Pallie + lock/Warrior is the other reason. Last time I did my 10 arenas, 7 of 10 teams were resto druid/ms warrior. Fuck that. That is no where near free epics.

You still get points when you lose. Sure your rating will be low, but you spend like an hour a week to get an item after 4 weeks (assuming you stick around 1300 rating, I have never seen anyone lower). How is that not a free epic?

Diae Soulmender · Post by **Diae Soulmender** » February 20, 2008, 1:26 pm

http://www.mmo-champion.com
http://www.worldofraids.com

For people who want real live information from ptr.

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » February 20, 2008, 1:33 pm

Aardor wrote:
Fairweather Pure wrote:
Psyloche wrote:Just curious, why would you avoid doing Arena teams as you gear up? It only costs you points that you could be earning now. The whole "Welfare epics" thing and all, besides if you're not that bad at PvP, it's easy to win a few games with no Resilience. As long as you use good execution (timing CC, Offensive cooldowns, etc) then you can still drop people.
20 minute 2v2 que times is enough to make me avoid arenas. I'll add that Resto druid/Pallie + lock/Warrior is the other reason. Last time I did my 10 arenas, 7 of 10 teams were resto druid/ms warrior. Fuck that. That is no where near free epics.
You still get points when you lose. Sure your rating will be low, but you spend like an hour a week to get an item after 4 weeks (assuming you stick around 1300 rating, I have never seen anyone lower). How is that not a free epic?

It takes a minumim of 2.5 -3 hours for me to do 10 2v2 arena matches. With a 1500 rating, that gets me 261 points a week. There are no items worth 1044 arena points. Futhermore, 12 hours of invested time is hardly free now is it?

Aardor · Post by **Aardor** » February 20, 2008, 1:41 pm

You have to play the game to get items, so by that standard "nothing" is free, so lets call them the commonly used "welfare epics". And it is a pretty well known fact that 2v2 queue times are broken, try doing it in 3 v 3 or 5 v5 (if you need more people, just use the trade channel, sounds like you are losing anyway). It is pretty easy to get 10 games of 3 v 3 or 5 v 5 in an hour. And yeah, I must have looked at 3v3 or 5v5 when I did the calculation.

I'm sorry you have to play the game to get items from it.

Psyloche · Post by **Psyloche** » February 20, 2008, 1:42 pm

Fairweather Pure wrote:
Psyloche wrote:Just curious, why would you avoid doing Arena teams as you gear up? It only costs you points that you could be earning now. The whole "Welfare epics" thing and all, besides if you're not that bad at PvP, it's easy to win a few games with no Resilience. As long as you use good execution (timing CC, Offensive cooldowns, etc) then you can still drop people.
20 minute 2v2 que times is enough to make me avoid arenas. I'll add that Resto druid/Pallie + lock/Warrior is the other reason. Last time I did my 10 arenas, 7 of 10 teams were resto druid/ms warrior. Fuck that. That is no where near free epics.

lol fuck 20 minutes, I'd agree with you there, but at least on my battlegroup (Reckoning) the 3's dramatically drops the queues down to like less than 1 minute usually but topping out at like 3min at really odd times.

Aardor · Post by **Aardor** » February 20, 2008, 1:43 pm

Psyloche wrote:
Fairweather Pure wrote:
Psyloche wrote:Just curious, why would you avoid doing Arena teams as you gear up? It only costs you points that you could be earning now. The whole "Welfare epics" thing and all, besides if you're not that bad at PvP, it's easy to win a few games with no Resilience. As long as you use good execution (timing CC, Offensive cooldowns, etc) then you can still drop people.
20 minute 2v2 que times is enough to make me avoid arenas. I'll add that Resto druid/Pallie + lock/Warrior is the other reason. Last time I did my 10 arenas, 7 of 10 teams were resto druid/ms warrior. Fuck that. That is no where near free epics.
lol fuck 20 minutes, I'd agree with you there, but at least on my battlegroup (Reckoning) the 3's dramatically drops the queues down to like less than 1 minute usually but topping out at like 3min at really odd times.

And they fixed the queue time issue next patch (supposedly, and that's still ~2 months away)

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » February 20, 2008, 2:09 pm

Aardor wrote:You have to play the game to get items, so by that standard "nothing" is free, so lets call them the commonly used "welfare epics". And it is a pretty well known fact that 2v2 queue times are broken, try doing it in 3 v 3 or 5 v5 (if you need more people, just use the trade channel, sounds like you are losing anyway). It is pretty easy to get 10 games of 3 v 3 or 5 v 5 in an hour. And yeah, I must have looked at 3v3 or 5v5 when I did the calculation.

I'm sorry you have to play the game to get items from it.

My entire point is that doing arenas is not getting free epics, so I have no clue what you're apologizing to me for.

So, on one hand they're welfare freebies and on the other you claim you have to play to get the items. Are you trolling or something?

Arena gear is harder to obtain than badge loot. I'm uncertian how arenas became the target of welfare loot factories when Kara and ZA raids drop a shitload badges, as well as loot, rep, and patterns, ect. and can be done with little effort. At least arena gear is limited by how fast the avrage person attains the loot. Anyone can farm badges 24/7 in Heroics, dailys, and there's even several raids a week.

Aardor · Post by **Aardor** » February 20, 2008, 2:24 pm

Fairweather Pure wrote:
Aardor wrote:You have to play the game to get items, so by that standard "nothing" is free, so lets call them the commonly used "welfare epics". And it is a pretty well known fact that 2v2 queue times are broken, try doing it in 3 v 3 or 5 v5 (if you need more people, just use the trade channel, sounds like you are losing anyway). It is pretty easy to get 10 games of 3 v 3 or 5 v 5 in an hour. And yeah, I must have looked at 3v3 or 5v5 when I did the calculation.

I'm sorry you have to play the game to get items from it.
My entire point is that doing arenas is not getting free epics, so I have no clue what you're apologizing to me for.

So, on one hand they're welfare freebies and on the other you claim you have to play to get the items. Are you trolling or something?

Arena gear is harder to obtain than badge loot. I'm uncertian how arenas became the target of welfare loot factories when Kara and ZA raids drop a shitload badges, as well as loot, rep, and patterns, ect. and can be done with little effort. At least arena gear is limited by how fast the avrage person attains the loot. Anyone can farm badges 24/7 in Heroics, dailys, and there's even several raids a week.

No, not trying to troll. The epics from arena are freebie/welfare because despite lack of any skill, you can still get them (except s3 shoulders and weapons, which were changed for this specific reason). And there are no such things as free epics (TANSTAFE), you have to do something to get them.

Not sure how you define "harder," but you don't actually even need to play to get arena epics, you can join the game and AFK. You just can't get arena epics at the same pace as badge loot. I would save your badges now to get the t6 level badge loot in 2.4 (offtopic~). The only problem is if you don't have a group for heroics or 10 mans (or 25 mans next patch).

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » February 20, 2008, 2:46 pm

And I don't know how you define "skill".

I say badges are easier because when I've wanted and concentrated on getting an item through either badges or arenas, I can get the badge loot in a few days while the arena gear can take well over a month. So, based on personal experiance, I believe that badge loot is far easier to attain than arena gear.

BGs loot is even easier.

Psyloche · Post by **Psyloche** » February 20, 2008, 3:46 pm

Fairweather Pure wrote:And I don't know how you define "skill".

I say badges are easier because when I've wanted and concentrated on getting an item through either badges or arenas, I can get the badge loot in a few days while the arena gear can take well over a month. So, based on personal experiance, I believe that badge loot is far easier to attain than arena gear.

BGs loot is even easier.

Putting it that way, I can see why you'd say Badge Loot can be gotten easier. Myself, I scrubbed it up S1 to just get a Spell Blade and stopped doing Arenas, it took me about a month of 1600ish 2v2'ing and not much more effort. At the time, I'd say that was a pretty awesome return of time/effort, especially since it was as good as any raider's weapon (at the time people were still having trouble in late Kara/early Gruul's). Since then I picked it back up during mid S2 and now am looking at 2/5 S2, 3/5 S3, S1 weapon, S3 Offhand, Vindicator's gear from very casual PvP playing. I definitely regret not sludging through the weeks in between my break between S1 and S2, even at 200-300 pts a week, the month+ break I took could easily have been another 1k-1.4k pts.

Regardless, I still highly suggest at least trying the 10 games in a 3's team. I say 3's because it's usually a lot easier to manage people's schedules to get 10 3 man games in a week for some slow build up of points.

Breagen · Post by **Breagen** » February 20, 2008, 6:02 pm

Morgrym wrote:I have heard all of these rumors about using badges to buy PvP gear. The one thing I can't find clarification on is this:

Currently, you can spend honor and marks to buy S1 gear. When 2.4 goes live and the new arena season starts, S1 gear will probably go away and S2 gear will be available. Does anyone know if the S2 gear will be able to be purchased the same way with honor and marks or is it going to be badge only? Fairly important as I have yet to do arena teams since I was trying to get a full set of S1 gear so I could be on some sort of even playing field. If the S2 gear is going to be out of my reach since I don't raid, I need to know if I need to crank out the AV's and burn my current honor / marks on S1 gear.

First off there is no release date for S4, it's not currently tied to 2.4 being released. However; when/if S4 is released S2 arena gear (merciless) will go onto honor vendors in place of the current S1 gear. The badge bought PvP gear is referring to the battlemaster trinkets and the various cloaks that have been added to the badge vendor. 2.4 will also allow people to buy previous arena season gear with the tokens from 25 man raids; IE T4/5/6 tokens.

Aardor · Post by **Aardor** » February 20, 2008, 6:10 pm

Breagen wrote:
Morgrym wrote:I have heard all of these rumors about using badges to buy PvP gear. The one thing I can't find clarification on is this:

Currently, you can spend honor and marks to buy S1 gear. When 2.4 goes live and the new arena season starts, S1 gear will probably go away and S2 gear will be available. Does anyone know if the S2 gear will be able to be purchased the same way with honor and marks or is it going to be badge only? Fairly important as I have yet to do arena teams since I was trying to get a full set of S1 gear so I could be on some sort of even playing field. If the S2 gear is going to be out of my reach since I don't raid, I need to know if I need to crank out the AV's and burn my current honor / marks on S1 gear.
First off there is no release date for S4, it's not currently tied to 2.4 being released. However; when/if S4 is released S2 arena gear (merciless) will go onto honor vendors in place of the current S1 gear. The badge bought PvP gear is referring to the battlemaster trinkets and the various cloaks that have been added to the badge vendor. 2.4 will also allow people to buy previous arena season gear with the tokens from 25 man raids; IE T4/5/6 tokens.

Not entirely correct, it appears that in 2.4 you can by S2 honor gear with badges: http://www.worldofraids.com/2008/ptr/24/pvp4.jpg

The rest is right though: T4 gets you S1 arena gear, T5/6 gets you S2 arena gear, and the new T6 from sunwell gets you S3 honor gear (holy crap what a waste).

Breagen · Post by **Breagen** » February 20, 2008, 7:04 pm

Oh yeah, I thought he was just asking about the arena gear though; in which case you can't buy any of the Gladiator sets for badges. So far at least.

Aardor · Post by **Aardor** » February 21, 2008, 3:56 am

Breagen wrote:Oh yeah, I thought he was just asking about the arena gear though; in which case you can't buy any of the Gladiator sets for badges. So far at least.

2.5! Also in 2.5, the AV revamp everyone has been waiting for. It's not a patch without an AV revamp.

Morgrym · Post by **Morgrym** » February 21, 2008, 9:55 am

Alright, let me make sure I have this straight since it went all over the road.

2.4 = not a new arena season
2.4 = being able to buy trinkets / cloaks with badges. I assume these are the 30k honor things

The question I have is, do you happen to know if I will still be able to purchase S1 gear with honor / marks or do I need to burn it out now?

I am not a raider and plan on doing 3 v 3 teams with my family once they are ready. It will end up being a Feral / Resto / BM Hunter trio.

Psyloche · Post by **Psyloche** » February 21, 2008, 10:18 am

Morgrym wrote:Alright, let me make sure I have this straight since it went all over the road.

2.4 = not a new arena season
2.4 = being able to buy trinkets / cloaks with badges. I assume these are the 30k honor things

The question I have is, do you happen to know if I will still be able to purchase S1 gear with honor / marks or do I need to burn it out now?

I am not a raider and plan on doing 3 v 3 teams with my family once they are ready. It will end up being a Feral / Resto / BM Hunter trio.

Regarding Badges w/trinkets & cloaks:

Caster DPS + click heal
Physical Crit + click heal
Caster Crit + click heal
AP + click heal
Healing + click heal

All of the above can be bought with Honor as well, somewhere around 30K each.

Caster DPS & crit
Physical DPS
Healing Cloak

These you can't buy with Honor. All Cloaks/Trinkets listed here can be bought right now. There's another Cloak coming out supposedly in 2.4 that is a Caster DPS & spell haste rather than crit, not sure what else. There's a ton of info on the linked pages in an earlier post, mmo-champion and world of raids.

Morgrym · Post by **Morgrym** » February 21, 2008, 10:34 am

Why search when I can ask someone that already knows

Besides, those pages are blocked for me from work.

Bottom line, will I still be able to purchase outdated arena gear with my honor and marks?

Aardor · Post by **Aardor** » February 21, 2008, 12:07 pm

Morgrym wrote:Why search when I can ask someone that already knows

Besides, those pages are blocked for me from work.

Bottom line, will I still be able to purchase outdated arena gear with my honor and marks?

Yes, and if you wait long enough, you will be able to buy slightly better outdated arena gear with honor and marks (season4, season 3 allowed purchase of season 1 gear with honor, season 4 will allow purchase of season 2 with honor). I wouldn't bother waiting for season 4 to start collecting arena gear, though.

Morgrym · Post by **Morgrym** » February 21, 2008, 12:25 pm

Thanks

Since I don't raid, this is the best gear I can obtain before taking my team into the arena. Sure, I could do just fine with standard quest rewards, but I would not look as good doing it!

Sargeras · Post by **Sargeras** » February 25, 2008, 3:59 pm

Looks I missed some fun last night

My coworker specced ret and was critting people for 35k a pop.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 4823644742

Warrior movie:
http://files.filefront.com/PTRstatdupin ... einfo.html

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » February 25, 2008, 11:12 pm

Some twat was spamming wow-toolbox.com in town yesterday to "sell" you this exploit. Wonder if that means it works on live too.

Sargeras · Post by **Sargeras** » March 3, 2008, 5:52 pm

Adela, the Season 4 stuff is getting mined on PTR!

Aardor · Post by **Aardor** » March 3, 2008, 6:03 pm

144 dps two handers, probably 110-111 dps one handers. The pvp stuff is 5 ilvls higher than the sunwell stuff, except for the "boss" (kiljaden) loot, which is 5 ilvls higher than the pvp stuff. Warrior armor continues to look badass.

cadalano · Post by **cadalano** » March 3, 2008, 6:13 pm

fuckers need to make it an 8 pc pvp set!

Sargeras · Post by **Sargeras** » March 3, 2008, 6:39 pm

The ret set makes me happy in the pants. I already have 56k honor banked, and now I just need to bank my 5k arena points and start farming EoTS for marks (I think the holiday is in 2 weeks).

Aardor · Post by **Aardor** » March 3, 2008, 6:46 pm

Sargeras wrote:The ret set makes me happy in the pants. I already have 56k honor banked, and now I just need to bank my 5k arena points and start farming EoTS for marks (I think the holiday is in 2 weeks).

Do you think 2.4 will be season 4? wouldn't that be a short season 3, even if the patch takes 2 more months to come out?

Also, the items don't list any personal rating requirements. I'm assuming because it's datamined and doesn't show up for some reason, but I would not think they would revert that change, unless they were trying to gear everyone up for leveling in the expansion.

cadalano · Post by **cadalano** » March 3, 2008, 6:49 pm

there is no way that 2.4 will be season 4. the personal rating requirement is applied at the vendor. no reason for it to show up on the items

ret and enhancement are going to be big in 2.4 - I've got all my ele gear on my sham so i'm picking up enh now

Sargeras · Post by **Sargeras** » March 3, 2008, 7:01 pm

Aardor wrote:Do you think 2.4 will be season 4? wouldn't that be a short season 3, even if the patch takes 2 more months to come out?

Also, the items don't list any personal rating requirements. I'm assuming because it's datamined and doesn't show up for some reason, but I would not think they would revert that change, unless they were trying to gear everyone up for leveling in the expansion.

Oh no not at all. The forum blues have specifically said that 2.4 and Season 4 have no relation to each other, and that Season 4 will come much later. They're just patching Season 4 stuff now into PTR and it's easy to datamine if you know what you're looking for. Season 4 probably won't come until Blizzard feels that there are enough guilds (successfully) raiding Sunwell to warrant the arena gear purchase to be about even with the progression gear acquiring.

cadalano wrote:ret and enhancement are going to be big in 2.4 - I've got all my ele gear on my sham so i'm picking up enh now

Ret still needs some work since they removed our spell damage necessity. While they are on the right track with the gear reitemization and Crusader Strike change, Seal of Command still has a spell coefficient, and Judgement still relies on spell hit to land. The biggest problem is Horde ret paladins have a significantly greater damage output with Seal of Blood. With the upcoming plethora of haste gear being made available, the gap between SoBlood and SoCommand will widen to the point where Command (and Alliance ret period) will be left in the dust compared to the what Horde can put out in regards to damage. It's a serious faction imbalance that needs to get fixed.

Aardor · Post by **Aardor** » March 3, 2008, 7:12 pm

OT, but Sargeras (or anyone): what would you say is the best pve weapon enchant for a ret paladin, and what's the best for pvp?

Sargeras · Post by **Sargeras** » March 3, 2008, 7:48 pm

I use to use Mongoose, but the rarity that it proced in conjunction with a string of crits made it not-so-worthwhile. When Executioner came out, I gave that a shot and quickly found out that it's extremely useful to get as much damage out as possible with normal melee swings and Crusader Strike (since they are both mitigated damage).

In PvE, it's really a toss-up. I'd love seeing big big numbers when Mongoose proced, but again, it was rare. I believe Executioner wins in the overall damage output since it helps up the damage of two of the three damage swings based on your weapon.

For PVP, it's a no brainer. Executioner all the way. There's nothing more gratifying that 2-shotting a clothie or shredding up a leather-wearer when that thing is up. It's just so beautiful.

Sargeras · Post by **Sargeras** » March 3, 2008, 9:16 pm

Regarding Season 4 ETA:

Kalgan wrote:I'll be slightly more descriptive than Drysc. Not very soon. S3 rewards have quite a bit of life left in them before they start to feel obsoleted by pve gear.

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » March 25, 2008, 2:03 pm

Did this shit release today?

Aardor · Post by **Aardor** » March 25, 2008, 2:07 pm

Bubba Grizz wrote:Did this shit release today?

Yes

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » March 27, 2008, 1:22 pm

Good God people are starved for content. It reminds me of when they put in the Headless Horseman event last Halloween and about a thousand people stood outside a lvl 25 zone just because there was finally something new agin.

I see this new content and I all I can think of is how much longer it's going to be before the expansion is released. It's nice to have something new, but they're giving me a teaspoon when I'm starving to death.

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » March 27, 2008, 8:05 pm

Yep. The Blizzard mentality of "it's ready when it's ready" isn't going to last much longer. They need to step up their development cycles, at least doubled. Can't? Hire more people, or replace some of the current ones. I'm almost ashamed of myself for doing Magister's Terrace each day, it's a pretty bland, boring instance. God help me, I miss non-instanced dungeons with camp zones and rare spawns.

Also, the game really needs AAs, or something like them. Something players can grind exp for after hitting max level.

Fash · Post by **Fash** » March 27, 2008, 8:08 pm

Stop Playing.

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » March 27, 2008, 10:26 pm

I've found a great group of people to raid with and I plan on playing for WotLK, so I'd like to stay with them if I can.

VeeshanVault

PTR 2.4

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