Midnyte has destroyed this forum.

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » July 10, 2007, 12:48 am

I made fun of Second Life. I maintain that it is one big cyber cathouse that all the bored AOL housewives migrated to after SimsLive tanked. If that is what constitutes "having it in for you", you are being silly because none of your slamming my miniature war gamming hobby bothers me at all. I am secure enough in my self esteem to not give two shits about any of that, especially when its someone lashing out because I hurt their ego. On the other hand, I have had an extremely negative opinion of you dating back to your antics in EQ1 for your sociopathic self centered behavior, which I make no secret of. I wasn't implying that you being a drama whore was some great secret; I was simply stating that you were a hugely negative influence on the board and citing reasons why. Mainly that you do it intentionally, where as Mid and Funk simply cannot help themselves.

If you consider this to be a personal vendetta, you are off base. There is only one person on this entire board who I hate even close to that level. You mainly just annoy the shit out of me and I am just commenting on topic. Specifically, I would take 100 Midnytes and 1000 Funks over one Winnow.

Ashur · Post by **Ashur** » July 10, 2007, 1:13 am

I agree with Mak entirely.

Wulfran · Post by **Wulfran** » July 10, 2007, 1:27 am

Honestly, I think the problem with this forum is that for a variety of reasons the membership has stagnated and most issues end up degenerating to partisan arguments between people who are cemented into their positions. When it comes down to it, we know where most people will land on an issue before we initiate a discussion.

We know who will come down on the "conservative" end of the discussions, complete with the slogans of the day.
We know who will post from the "liberal" view point, both with and without the Democrat slogans du jour.
We know who is likely to be more moderate.

And no Winnow, the banning of Cart definately did not hurt this forum: he contributed to the degeneration more than probably any other single poster or issue regardless of his political leanings. There's drama and personal attacks (duh! how did this board start?) but the only things that really bite my ass is shit like Cart's incessant nonsensical one liners and things like the spam lists on the Scooty Libby Pardon thread.

To be honest this isn't a unique phenomenom: I've seen it on other forums as well, other CE forums (usually Canadian specific since most of you guys have no vested interest and thus little care about what goes on up here

). The same people tend to sound off on certain topics and they tend to have certain others that push their buttons and provoke a reaction. Then the senseless spam and personal attacks start to permeate and ruin a lot of discussions.

But this is the Vault. I don't expect people here to act politely).

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » July 10, 2007, 2:12 am

Jice Virago wrote:Specifically, I would take 100 Midnytes and 1000 Funks over one Winnow.

I'd be one badass game piece if I equal 100 Midnytes or 1000 Funks in a VeeshanVault the Gathering game.

*plays teh Winnow card*

"All of your attacks have been diverted. Your vehicles of destruction have been hijacked and redirected toward Canada."

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » July 10, 2007, 2:56 am

Mak wrote:The biggest sin that Mid and Funk has committed is that they're in the minority. Let's face it- Miir and Aslanna can write just as condescending, retarded, and pointless posts as anything you accuse Midnyte of having done, but most of the people here agree with their philosophy so nobody would ever think to call them on it. And they know that, so they don't even try to make a reasonable and rational argument anymore. They just post the liberal bullet points- as they accuse Midnyte of doing- and know that they're not going to have to actually justify their answers, 'cause, you know, the only one that ever disagrees with them is Midnyte, or Funk, or maybe Winnow, and who the hell cares about them?

....

I read this forum almost every day, and as much as I'd love to contribute, to I know that the no matter how intelligent or genuine my argument is, it will ultimately be a waste of my time, 'cause the same small cabal of lefty "shitheads", to use your term, will pile on without even considering my argument.

No, Midnyte and Funkmasterr have not ruined this forum. They're just a couple of the few that don't mind getting the shit kicked out of them day after day by dickheads like Miir that couldn't ever bother to consider that maybe- just maybe- that the truth of a situation lies somewhere between his opinion and Mid's.

There's where you would be wrong. I've made plenty of constructive posts to this board over the years. To be honest I don't try all that hard these days, especially in CE, when I know that the two subjects of this thread will just post frustratingly stupid responses and basically shit every thread up. But the difference is I don't go out of my way like those two. From my perspective that small cabal of righty shitheads, to use your term, continually post baseless 'facts' and refuse to back them up with anything. Look at Funks posts in the Smart car thread for an example (one of many) of that. You accuse us of not actually justify our answers.. Have you read any of their fucking posts lately? The answer to that is an obvious no.

I'd really love to see a list of those so called "liberal bullet points" you accuse me of posting. Have you actually read my posts? I'm guessing not since you didn't read any of theirs either. I seldom even bother responding to Midnytes posts anymore. I recently went against that in a thread or two and quickly remmebered why I didn't bother. This is a good example of that. You ask him to back something up and he counters with lame 'you do the research' response he uses when he's got nothing. All I was asking is what he was basing his conclusions on.

Sueven is right to an extent. I went back and read some of the recent threads I posted in. I'm actually quite amiable until one of those two post in there. I usually have no problem ignoring them but sometimes they post something so retarded I just have to respond. I suppose I shouldn't let my personal distaste for them affect my responses and it is a bit like shooting fish in a barrel in a lot of ways.

So while I'm sure the view is nice from up there how about geting off your fucking high horse.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » July 10, 2007, 3:01 am

Aslanna wrote: I seldom even bother responding to Midnytes posts anymore. I recently went against that in a thread or two and quickly remmebered why I didn't bother. This is a good example of that. You ask him to back something up and he counters with lame 'you do the research' response he uses when he's got nothing. All I was asking is what he was basing his conclusions on.
.

You just proved Maks point for him by typing that. Reading that post will show nothing bad against me. It will show how others cannot comprehend to well.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » July 10, 2007, 3:06 am

I don't know what bizarro universe you live in but it proves nothing of the sort. Instead of answering you threw up something else and said "answer that first." How would my answer to your question, which totally came from left field because I never claimed anything was 'statistically driven', have any bearing on what I asked? Short answer: It wouldn't.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » July 10, 2007, 3:10 am

Aslanna wrote:I don't know what bizarro universe you live in but it proves nothing of the sort. Instead of answering you threw up something else and said "answer that first." How would my answer to your question, which totally came from left field because I never claimed anything was 'statistically driven', have any bearing on what I asked? Short answer: It wouldn't.

You're very dim witted at times. If you are to pass a law, don't you feel it should be statistically driven? Don't you think it should have a ton of thought put into it? I suggested, since I have seen no proof this, that is was media driven. My proof it was media driven is your lack of proof it isn't. This really isn't a difficult thing to understand. Honestly, I'm shocked you are having such a hard time grasping it.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » July 10, 2007, 3:52 am

Ok, I give up. You win. I am the dim-witted simpleton here.

I think if my biggest failing in life is being thought of as dimwitted by Midnyte_Ragebringer of VeeshanVault I might just be able to carry on.

Mak · Post by **Mak** » July 10, 2007, 5:48 am

Aslanna wrote:There's where you would be wrong. I've made plenty of constructive posts to this board over the years. To be honest I don't try all that hard these days, especially in CE, when I know that the two subjects of this thread will just post frustratingly stupid responses and basically shit every thread up. But the difference is I don't go out of my way like those two. From my perspective that small cabal of righty shitheads, to use your term, continually post baseless 'facts' and refuse to back them up with anything. Look at Funks posts in the Smart car thread for an example (one of many) of that. You accuse us of not actually justify our answers.. Have you read any of their fucking posts lately? The answer to that is an obvious no.

I can easily agree with your first few sentences, but you lose me as you go on. In the smart car thread you sorta prove my point- a general discussion on a car, and then miir pops in and shits all over it with his "Like most ignorant Americans, you make idiotic assumptions that safety is somehow related to the size of the vehicle." Now he could have very easily made his point in a dozen different ways, but he chose to be an antagonistic troll about it, knowing the type of response he'd get. He's as guilty of fucking up a good thread as Noel has accused Mid and Funk of doing, and I've no doubt he did it on purpose to stir shit up. Either that or he's fucking retarded and nobody thinks that.

Does he contribute to other threads? Sure. So do you, and I don't necessarily have anything against either of you, other than the fact you both (amongst others) feel that it's ok to just express whatever negative viewpoint you want in any thread you want, call anyone a name if they don't agree with you, and scream for facts (but only facts from sources you approve of) etc. etc. etc. That's all fine and good, but be fair and don't rip Midnyte when he does it. You have no moral high ground on this issue.

Aslanna wrote:I'd really love to see a list of those so called "liberal bullet points" you accuse me of posting. Have you actually read my posts? I'm guessing not since you didn't read any of theirs either. I seldom even bother responding to Midnytes posts anymore. I recently went against that in a thread or two and quickly remmebered why I didn't bother. This is a good example of that. You ask him to back something up and he counters with lame 'you do the research' response he uses when he's got nothing. All I was asking is what he was basing his conclusions on.

I agreed with you completely in that thread. And you're right- Midnyte did start the name calling there. But as we've just seen in the 1st thread, it was miir. So clearly it comes from both "camps" and again, you can't claim any moral high ground here.

Aslanna wrote:I usually have no problem ignoring them but sometimes they post something so retarded I just have to respond. I suppose I shouldn't let my personal distaste for them affect my responses and it is a bit like shooting fish in a barrel in a lot of ways.

You don't think a lot of people feel the same way about you? There are posters here that basically take any opportunity to throw in an "ignorant American" comment regardless of the thread, and I'm sure Midnyte gets as tired of that shit as you do his.

Aslanna wrote:So while I'm sure the view is nice from up there how about geting off your fucking high horse.

Wanting someone to acknowledge that those on "the left" on this board are just as trollish and belligerent as those on "the right" puts me on a high horse?

Drolgin Steingrinder · Post by **Drolgin Steingrinder** » July 10, 2007, 7:14 am

Oh, we all troll. I think I can name maybe 4 or 5 people on this board (of the regular posters) who've never written anything in the hope to get a rise out of someone, whether it's Midnyte or Noel or Shaerra or Winnow.

The problem here is that this forum is supposed to be for discussion, not for baiting, namecalling, dickwaving and shit-flailing. Discussion! But by now discussion as in 'exchange of ideas, of point and counterpoint' has gone the way of the fucking dodo.

I know of forums that pretty much require you to douse yourself in flameretardant gel and put on asbestos underwear before you enter, but they manage to keep their current event forums flame-free - through moderation. Our 'heritage', the entire IGN debacle, have resulted in us as a community being terrified of any moderation that goes beyond 'please relax' - and I think the knee-jerk invocations of free speech are hurting us. Rather than having a real moderation we've got a very diverse corps of self-appointed moderators (I'm one of them) who attempt to belittle and shame (some of) the perpetrators into submission, and it's just not working; partly because we're biased against certain people and certain opinions - this is true, no matter what we say - and partly because all we can do is ridicule or yell.

I would prefer it if CE discussions were self-moderated but as this isn't possible, I think that a genuine FF format would be desirable if we're to entertain any hope of genuine discussion here.

PS: My apologies for shitty language and convoluted sentences, this was written while pretending to listen to what my boss was telling me. Let me know if I make no sense at all... ><

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » July 10, 2007, 11:46 am

Aslanna wrote:
Mak wrote:The biggest sin that Mid and Funk has committed is that they're in the minority. Let's face it- Miir and Aslanna can write just as condescending, retarded, and pointless posts as anything you accuse Midnyte of having done, but most of the people here agree with their philosophy so nobody would ever think to call them on it. And they know that, so they don't even try to make a reasonable and rational argument anymore. They just post the liberal bullet points- as they accuse Midnyte of doing- and know that they're not going to have to actually justify their answers, 'cause, you know, the only one that ever disagrees with them is Midnyte, or Funk, or maybe Winnow, and who the hell cares about them?

....

I read this forum almost every day, and as much as I'd love to contribute, to I know that the no matter how intelligent or genuine my argument is, it will ultimately be a waste of my time, 'cause the same small cabal of lefty "shitheads", to use your term, will pile on without even considering my argument.

No, Midnyte and Funkmasterr have not ruined this forum. They're just a couple of the few that don't mind getting the shit kicked out of them day after day by dickheads like Miir that couldn't ever bother to consider that maybe- just maybe- that the truth of a situation lies somewhere between his opinion and Mid's.
There's where you would be wrong. I've made plenty of constructive posts to this board over the years. To be honest I don't try all that hard these days, especially in CE, when I know that the two subjects of this thread will just post frustratingly stupid responses and basically shit every thread up. But the difference is I don't go out of my way like those two. From my perspective that small cabal of righty shitheads, to use your term, continually post baseless 'facts' and refuse to back them up with anything. Look at Funks posts in the Smart car thread for an example (one of many) of that. You accuse us of not actually justify our answers.. Have you read any of their fucking posts lately? The answer to that is an obvious no.

I'd really love to see a list of those so called "liberal bullet points" you accuse me of posting. Have you actually read my posts? I'm guessing not since you didn't read any of theirs either. I seldom even bother responding to Midnytes posts anymore. I recently went against that in a thread or two and quickly remmebered why I didn't bother. This is a good example of that. You ask him to back something up and he counters with lame 'you do the research' response he uses when he's got nothing. All I was asking is what he was basing his conclusions on.

Sueven is right to an extent. I went back and read some of the recent threads I posted in. I'm actually quite amiable until one of those two post in there. I usually have no problem ignoring them but sometimes they post something so retarded I just have to respond. I suppose I shouldn't let my personal distaste for them affect my responses and it is a bit like shooting fish in a barrel in a lot of ways.

So while I'm sure the view is nice from up there how about geting off your fucking high horse.

You never cease to amaze me, you think you are so fucking intelligent and better than people but you just plain aren't.

1- I didn't need to post any facts in the smart car thread A) Because the point I was making was common sense B) I didn't sign a contract when I came to vv saying I wouldn't post opinion, rather I would spend time researching shit online and quote facts. I don't have the time for that shit, I look at the forums at work, and I don't have any more time to devote to it than I currently do.

2- And just like you are saying to me, try not to confuse facts with opinions. You say that you post something inflammatory because we have said something "retarded" when the fact is, there are probably many people in the world that would agree with us, but you are so much smarter than us, and you are in the majority - so that makes you right and us retarded.

Seriously, fuck you. You need to clean your fucking attitude up because besides a small few other people here it's currently the worst.

miir · Post by **miir** » July 10, 2007, 11:59 am

I didn't need to post any facts in the smart car thread A) Because the point I was making was common sense

What you thought was common sense was infact complete and utter ignorance of automobile safety standards, basic physics and the technology involved in vehicle safety.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » July 10, 2007, 12:07 pm

Wrong, I still stand by my opinion there but I am done discussing it with you. The fact still remains that I used to come here for fun, which i don't do research for - now I just come here to piss as many people off as possible - which definitely doesn't require research. So yours, or anyone else's opinion is 300% irrelevant, I do things my way for a reason - so deal with it or add me to your ignore list, but just shut the fuck up about it already.

And that was hardly the overall point of my post, miir - but I don't expect you to stick to the topic. Ever. I am sick of people like aslanna being condescending because of difference of opinion. Fine fine, it's the flamevault - but you don't need to talk to someone like they are a second grade retard because they don't share the same opinions as you.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » July 10, 2007, 12:18 pm

Funkmasterr wrote:You never cease to amaze me, you think you are so fucking intelligent and better than people but you just plain aren't.

1- I didn't need to post any facts in the smart car thread A) Because the point I was making was common sense B) I didn't sign a contract when I came to vv saying I wouldn't post opinion, rather I would spend time researching shit online and quote facts. I don't have the time for that shit, I look at the forums at work, and I don't have any more time to devote to it than I currently do.

2- And just like you are saying to me, try not to confuse facts with opinions. You say that you post something inflammatory because we have said something "retarded" when the fact is, there are probably many people in the world that would agree with us, but you are so much smarter than us, and you are in the majority - so that makes you right and us retarded.

Seriously, fuck you. You need to clean your fucking attitude up because besides a small few other people here it's currently the worst.

Haha.. I love you too. Hope I continue to amaze you for years to come.

This is (one of many examples) why I don't take anything you post here seriously (besides the above quote):

I wasn't going to post here anymore but I am sick of listening to people like you run their stupid fucking mouths. This however, will be the last time I post in this thread- because just like everything else I have said here, this will go in one ear, and out the other ear of Team VV Douchebag

18 hours later you posted yet again in that very thread. You can't even follow through on the simplest things!

Honestly, you seem to let peoples opinion on an internet message board personally get to you. I on the other hand couldn't care less. So feel free to carry on doing what it is you do.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » July 10, 2007, 12:21 pm

Right, completely skirt the issue - see aslanna talking to YOU is also like talking to a goddamn brick wall.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » July 10, 2007, 1:05 pm

Seriously Funk, all you're doing is perpetuating the shitty stereotype you love to wallow in and proving Noel's point. Admitting you're here to fuck everyones enjoyment up is a far fucking cry of extra shit headedness from simply getting into the spirit of Flamevault and having a rant. You take it personally because you appear to be a whiny little bitch.

Despite being renowned for loathing the Iraq war (apparantly, amongst idiots, a bad thing), I realise I usually just set myself up against people like you, because your reasoning level is so fucking thin to non existant that it literally pains me to have to read your posts a lot of the time. If you used an ounce of rationality or logic I'm sure people wouldn't be so quick to insult you. The thing is, you don't. I still don't find you responsible for this forums stagnation, but you are a contributing factor.

There's barely any point to me writing anything nowadays, it usually just means Fash, midnyte, You or whoever else (Kilmoll whenever he posted etc) resorting to "SHUT THE FUCK UP LEPRECHAUN". The xenophobia is just embarrasing and accounts for why I've pretty much stopped bothering with this forum in particular. coupled as mentioned before with the total irrationality of certain posters such as yourself, it doesn't make for a very attractive waste of my time.

Ultimately, if you ever discussed reasons such as why you supported the stances you took and didn't just spend your entire time here deliberately going out of your way to act like a fuckhead, and play the victim in your little self fulfilling prophecy, you would be surprised how reasonable could be, even me! Hell me and Midnyte are even Myspace friends, how fruitily delicious is that?

In short, grow up and cry less.

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » July 10, 2007, 1:09 pm

Funkmasterr wrote:now I just come here to piss as many people off as possible

Welcome to Carts level. I suggest everyone treat him as such and put him on ignore and things will get substantially better.

edit: Fuck. "You cannot add administrators and moderators to your foes list."

Fix please!

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » July 10, 2007, 1:11 pm

Nick, you have no room to talk yourself. You contribute very little, maybe people would respond with something other than "shut the fucking leprechaun up" if you didn't come off as such a raging condescending asshole every time you post. I don't care if this is teh flamevault, im sick and fucking tired of it.

You seem to think it's people like me that are the issue but you are wrong - I posted very little and when I did it wasn't anything too out of line, until people started over using the flamevault thing to be assholes constantly, then I started the degeneration - and I won't stop until the other party does first - so the balls not in my court right now.

And Dregor - You are also completely missing the point. I DO THAT BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE ABSOLUTELY OBNOXIOUS, CONDESCENDING ASSHOLES CONSTANTLY - IT IS A REACTION, NOT ME BEING A DICK FOR FUN - LIKE YOU AND YOUR BUDDIES DO.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » July 10, 2007, 1:12 pm

Funk, it's hard not to be condescending to someone who admits they are here simply to waste our time. Why the fuck should you be treated with any dignity if that's your intention?

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » July 10, 2007, 1:19 pm

Nick wrote:Funk, it's hard not to be condescending to someone who admits they are here simply to waste our time. Why the fuck should you be treated with any dignity if that's your intention?

I was not just speaking for myself, you mentioned that others respond to you in that way and I'm sure it's for the same or a similar reason. Not only that but I've seen you use that same attitude towards people who DON'T respond to you in such a fashion.

Here is what you guys refuse to get through your thick skulls - YOU STARTED THIS. You all pissed me off and ruined this site for me to get me to act the way that I do. And until YOU correct your fucking attitudes first, I see it as only fair I continue to be the way I am.

Put simply: What is happening to people now in this forum (people not posting/leaving) happened to me years ago for this site overall. However, just to spite the people I feel make this site a worse place than it could be - I stuck around and now annoy them instead of quietly leaving like some are. The power is yours.

Fash · Post by **Fash** » July 10, 2007, 1:22 pm

this thread has retard written all over it. can't we all just get along?

nick

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » July 10, 2007, 1:23 pm

Oh, here's the quote that was supposed to be included in my last post. Somehow it got cut out.

Funkmasterr wrote:The best I can do is assume the responsibilities of the poster at hand (Cartalas) and do my best to piss as many of you off as possible, and hopefully turn this into a place you don't even want to come

Funny how it turned from avenging Cartalas into "you started it". But hey maybe I'm missing the big picture.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » July 10, 2007, 1:28 pm

Aslanna wrote:Oh, here's the quote that was supposed to be included in my last post. Somehow it got cut out.

Funkmasterr wrote:The best I can do is assume the responsibilities of the poster at hand (Cartalas) and do my best to piss as many of you off as possible, and hopefully turn this into a place you don't even want to come
Funny how it turned from avenging Cartalas into "you started it". But hey maybe I'm missing the big picture.

Well, I was going to start using one liners like he did, but I just have so much more fun when I do it my way - so it changes nothing. Another try to turn this on me rejected, anything else you would like to discuss?

Siji · Post by **Siji** » July 10, 2007, 1:29 pm

Funkmasterr wrote:However, just to spite the people I feel make this site a worse place than it could be - I stuck around and now annoy them instead of quietly leaving like some are. The power is yours.

You do realize that our 'power' is to ignore you, thus making you completely meaningless... right?

Nick · Post by **Nick** » July 10, 2007, 1:31 pm

Funkmasterr wrote:
Aslanna wrote:Oh, here's the quote that was supposed to be included in my last post. Somehow it got cut out.

Funkmasterr wrote:The best I can do is assume the responsibilities of the poster at hand (Cartalas) and do my best to piss as many of you off as possible, and hopefully turn this into a place you don't even want to come
Funny how it turned from avenging Cartalas into "you started it". But hey maybe I'm missing the big picture.
Well, I was going to start using one liners like he did, but I just have so much more fun when I do it my way - so it changes nothing. Another try to turn this on me rejected, anything else you would like to discuss?

Oh right, ok then, thanks for explaining it, Noel was right after all. "Rock on man."

What a waste of time.

Fash!

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » July 11, 2007, 1:45 am

I haven't read this forum for a couple of days and so this is the first thread I clicked and just read the whole thing. I consider myself a pretty staunch liberal. However, there are several things I agree with the three people who are the targets of this thread.

I simply cannot believe the blatant hypocrisy exemplified by the fucking title of this fucking thread that the liberals here are displaying. To act as if they have had no hand in increasing the level of belligerent discourse here is fucking nauseating. I'm guilty of it and I admit it. But give me a fucking break with this holier than thou bullshit. Over and over, the liberals here, including my good friend Sylvus, and the idiot who started this thread display unfettered lip service to please the rest of the liberals and bash the conservatives with something worse than insults to the point where they fucking leave, then claim innocence. The banning of cart is a supreme example of this behavior, and the bullshit attitude has only increased. There is a long laundry list of people (who I abhorrently disagree with) that were run off, not because of Mid or Funk, but because you motherfuckers always act like your shit doesn't stink when you don't even bother taking a fucking whiff.

Sadly, the two people named in the title should be fucking congratulated for putting up with this shit as long as they have.

Look at the bullshit Miir pulled by changing the title of his fucking thread. If you are banning cart why are you not banning that annoying fuckwad? He is the hippo when it comes to taking shits.

Mak is pretty much correct except that I myself backed off of an argument where I was proven wrong, and guess who proved me wrong? Funk! So to say that they are shitting up this forum by starting a thread that fucking shits up this forum is beyond atrocious. Next time you take a shit, give it a good sniff and come here and tell us the result.

miir · Post by **miir** » July 11, 2007, 10:37 am

Are you mentally retarded?

Look at the bullshit Miir pulled by changing the title of his fucking thread. If you are banning cart why are you not banning that annoying fuckwad?

I guess that answers my question.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » July 11, 2007, 10:41 am

miir wrote:Are you mentally retarded?

Look at the bullshit Miir pulled by changing the title of his fucking thread. If you are banning cart why are you not banning that annoying fuckwad?
I guess that answers my question.

He dared to question you....he must be retarded. How dare he!

miir · Post by **miir** » July 11, 2007, 10:43 am

Stuff a sock in it, wop!!

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » July 11, 2007, 10:44 am

miir wrote:Stuff a sock in it, wop!!

Eat my shorts, canuck!

Nick · Post by **Nick** » July 11, 2007, 10:45 am

You're all a bunch of retarded liberal neo conservative xenophobic hypocrite cycling leprechauns imo.

miir · Post by **miir** » July 11, 2007, 10:51 am

The three people I argue with the most here (Mid, Winnow and Funk) are the three people I would probably most enjoy going out for a beer with.

I don't care that some people think they are faggoting up this forum.
I truthfully enjoy Winnows incessant trolling and Funk and Mid's 'differing opinions'.

This place would be pretty dull without it.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » July 11, 2007, 10:56 am

miir wrote:The three people I argue with the most here (Mid, Winnow and Funk) are the three people I would probably most enjoy going out for a beer with.

I don't care that some people think they are faggoting up this forum.
I truthfully enjoy Winnows incessant trolling and Funk and Mid's 'differing opinions'.
This place would be pretty dull without it.

Agreed Miir. You need to come on down to the states some time. Enough of this. Up yours lefty scum.

miir · Post by **miir** » July 11, 2007, 11:07 am

In answer to Xyun's question:

If you are banning cart why are you not banning that annoying fuckwad?

Because I'm simply playing the troll/flame game with willing participants.
I like to think that despite our arguments and differences, I have a pretty good rapport with Mid, Funk and Winnow.
Think of it like how you and your friends joke around and fire insults back and forth at each other... How you make jokes at each other's expense... How when one of your friends says or does something stupid you make fun of them.

Unlike Cartalas, I'm not stalking posters from forum to forum, insulting people on their physical appearance, using excessive and inappropriately violent profanity, and my contributions consist of more than one-line, misspelled grade-school insults.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » July 11, 2007, 11:15 am

That he even has to ask that shows he has no grasp why Cart is no longer here. Perhaps he should reread his goodbye thread. All questions are answered within!

miir · Post by **miir** » July 11, 2007, 11:30 am

Yea, and I never asked to be banned...

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » July 11, 2007, 3:11 pm

I still like turtles.

Drolgin Steingrinder · Post by **Drolgin Steingrinder** » July 11, 2007, 3:53 pm

I'm assuming that either my post made no sense or people are choosing to ignore it. The latter would be an interesting commentary on the state of the forum, imo...

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » July 11, 2007, 4:10 pm

Xyun wrote:I haven't read this forum for a couple of days and so this is the first thread I clicked and just read the whole thing. I consider myself a pretty staunch liberal. However, there are several things I agree with the three people who are the targets of this thread.

I simply cannot believe the blatant hypocrisy exemplified by the fucking title of this fucking thread that the liberals here are displaying. To act as if they have had no hand in increasing the level of belligerent discourse here is fucking nauseating. I'm guilty of it and I admit it. But give me a fucking break with this holier than thou bullshit. Over and over, the liberals here, including my good friend Sylvus, and the idiot who started this thread display unfettered lip service to please the rest of the liberals and bash the conservatives with something worse than insults to the point where they fucking leave, then claim innocence. The banning of cart is a supreme example of this behavior, and the bullshit attitude has only increased. There is a long laundry list of people (who I abhorrently disagree with) that were run off, not because of Mid or Funk, but because you motherfuckers always act like your shit doesn't stink when you don't even bother taking a fucking whiff.

Sadly, the two people named in the title should be fucking congratulated for putting up with this shit as long as they have.

Look at the bullshit Miir pulled by changing the title of his fucking thread. If you are banning cart why are you not banning that annoying fuckwad? He is the hippo when it comes to taking shits.

Mak is pretty much correct except that I myself backed off of an argument where I was proven wrong, and guess who proved me wrong? Funk! So to say that they are shitting up this forum by starting a thread that fucking shits up this forum is beyond atrocious. Next time you take a shit, give it a good sniff and come here and tell us the result.

Someone told me about this and I had to come to applaud it.

Quite frankly, I left because I could not stomach the liberal fnord and their trolling and gang raping of anyone that did not agree with them. It was like seeing 10 asshat debatists sitting around jerking each other off while agreeing with how right each other were....even if they were wrong they made themselves seem right by sheer volume. Let me say that I hate debate team type idiots....and even though I like Sueven I would probably choke the life out of him IRL if he started with those type tactics in a real conversation. being a good debater is not indicative of being correct.....it is about being a better argumentative jackass. Most of us deal with enough of those types at work that we sure as fuck don't need more here.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » July 11, 2007, 4:22 pm

Drolgin Steingrinder wrote:I'm assuming that either my post made no sense or people are choosing to ignore it. The latter would be an interesting commentary on the state of the forum, imo...

I don't agree with a dedicated FF forum but nothing's stopping the mods from creating one. If people can just somehow dig deep and manage to breeze by posts that they don't care for, all would be fine (and Cart would still be here). I've been reading some MMO forums lately and the spam is unbelievable but no one seems to have an issue blowing right by the unproductive posts and continuing the discussion.

It's possible some people need to increase the scrolling speed of their mouse wheels or something basic along those lines that we're not thinking of.

You can always start *FF* or *EMO* threads. I think they still are a valid format on VV. It would also give the mods some fun banning people left and right like the good old days on IGN.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » July 11, 2007, 4:32 pm

I remember when I got kyoukan a one week ban on IGN from The Machine by a FF thread. Great times. I miss kyoukan. Come back!

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » July 11, 2007, 4:33 pm

@Drolgin:

I don't think its bias against certain opinions, to be honest. I can think of numerous times where people, including myself, have held the same position on a certain issue with one or more of the neocon triforce of idiocy. The problem is twofold:

First, for whatever reason, this particular group of people refuse to cite anything other than regurgatated op-ed posts to back up their opinions. This is further aggravated when they can't seem to grasp the difference between op-ed and factual non-biased reporting. Its also twice as embarressing when you happen to share their opinion on a specific point. When confronted on this, they inevitably resort to "you research it, moron" or some variation, thereof. Evidently, the entire concept that the person making an absurd statement is the one who is required to produce real proof never sunk in during their formative years. More likely, they have simply been conditioned to argue like the spin doctors feeding them their talking points. This is extremely irritating, because it is akin to arguing with a book; ie no matter how well reasoned your argument, you can't change the words stamped on a piece of paper. What makes it really annoying is that, clearly, at least one of them is smart enough to research their arguments but chooses to parrot spin instead.

Second, is the signal to noise ratio issue. No matter how reasonable you are with this crowd, their immediate response is always a spam attack of cross linked Drudge articles and personal insults. The only way to provoke a direct response at all is to bash them relentlessly, at which point they will cry about how everyone is out to get them and swear they are not posting on the forum/thread/to you ultimately to return and post some more gargabe about an hour later. This gets old really fast and does little to foster any kind of discussion at all. There are plenty of conservative people who used to post here (or rarely continue to post) who you could have a descent argument with, while remaining civil. They have all given up and my money says its because they don't want to be associated with the chorus of retardation that the conservative side of this board has become. I miss debating issues with those people and I blame team Neo-spam for their departure. The most damaging thing they did was drive those people away.

Sadly, the only participation in this board for me, personally at this point, is when one of the other liberal/moderate posters has a difference of opinion from me on an issue or futile sessions where I allow myself to get baited into responding to the utter retardation from the Bush worshippers who can't even remember what they, themselves, posted, let alone argue actual facts. Sadly, their crap has been bleeding over into other forums too.

miir · Post by **miir** » July 11, 2007, 4:37 pm

You're clearly not seeing the big picture, Jice.

Xatrei · Post by **Xatrei** » July 11, 2007, 4:44 pm

Drolgin Steingrinder wrote:I'm assuming that either my post made no sense or people are choosing to ignore it. The latter would be an interesting commentary on the state of the forum, imo...

For the most part, I agree with what you said. I just haven't taken the time to post my agreement heh. Generally speaking, I'd prefer to see more temperate discussion of issues in the CE forum, but I don't think that it will ever be FF. People are passionate about their views on both sides of the equation, whether they base their beliefs on feelings or on facts. Things will invariably boil over, and I've been guilty of throwing a few verbal punches myself. Given the history of VV and the culture that's resulted, I doubt that a FF forum would work because many would be highly resistant to the very notion (see Winnow's response above).

Siji · Post by **Siji** » July 11, 2007, 4:52 pm

Dregor Thule wrote:edit: Fuck. "You cannot add administrators and moderators to your foes list."

Fix please!

I second that request please. There's no reason you shouldn't be able to ignore someone on a forum that they're not an administrator of.

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » July 11, 2007, 4:54 pm

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:Someone told me about this and I had to come to applaud it.

Quite frankly, I left because I could not stomach the liberal fnord and their trolling and gang raping of anyone that did not agree with them. It was like seeing 10 asshat debatists sitting around jerking each other off while agreeing with how right each other were....even if they were wrong they made themselves seem right by sheer volume. Let me say that I hate debate team type idiots....and even though I like Sueven I would probably choke the life out of him IRL if he started with those type tactics in a real conversation. being a good debater is not indicative of being correct.....it is about being a better argumentative jackass. Most of us deal with enough of those types at work that we sure as fuck don't need more here.

First off, lets be honest here. Every time one of you rednecks has moaned about how "we" all ganged up on you, had a meltdown, and sworn you were never comming back, you have ultimately just lurked and waited until your ego healed sufficiently to renew flame spewing. Sueven is not the leader of some vast liberal conspiracy on this board (though I do agree there is a tight fnord of lefties, one I am not a part of, on this board) and generally stands on his own. I think he is actually about the most moderate/centrist poster in CE along with Booghaz, which has me agreeing with him as often as not. If you really think he is some ultra liberal, then you have no clue how far right of center you have swung (or simply don't care) in your outlook.

The "loonie libs" are not nearly the coordinated bunch you make them out to be. I submit that the people who slurp up the right wing echo chamber talking points are far more coordinated. The constant cycle of spouting arguments that you cannot back up with credible facts, often with a hint of racism tossed in, followed by martyring yourselves tends to draw the ire of a lot of people down on you guys. The latest antic, namely treating the Cart ban like it was the 9/11 terrorist attack, is a perfect example of this. You even have your own little version of "But Clinton!" with your Kyocan whines (and she is a trolling merciless bitch, but she also contributes) to go along with it, like a little microcosm of the real world 27% approval gang. In essence, the reason you guys are getting ganged up on has nothing to do with a fnord, its your propensity to state opinion as fact and then whine when you are called to the carpet on it. No one, in a reasonable debate, tolerates that kind of blatant logical fallacy. You certainly should not expect a bunch of computer savvy well educated people to roll over for that kind of crap, either. So you see, if there is a conspiracy against you, its a conspiracy of logic and sound reasoning.

For the record, I am 99% against banning anyone, even people who I share a great mutual despisal with (see Devereaux incident), but Cartalas pushed things way past the pale for even my high bullshit tolerace. And, if you want to have some real discussions, come armed with facts or be prepared to admit things like "This is my opinion". People like Metanis and Adex were capable of sorting the two out, but it is my personal view that you guys have become so entrenched in your indefensable positions (and unable to admit that you were wrong in the past) that you can't tell the difference between fact and opinion anymore.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » July 11, 2007, 5:29 pm

Thanks Jice.

Kilmoll wrote:Let me say that I hate debate team type idiots....and even though I like Sueven I would probably choke the life out of him IRL if he started with those type tactics in a real conversation. being a good debater is not indicative of being correct.....it is about being a better argumentative jackass.

Kilmoll: I'm not 100% sure what you mean by "debate team type... tactics." All I can gather is that you're generally referring to arguing by analyzing what the other person has wrote and responding to it by pointing out internal inconsistencies, making counterpoints, positing hypotheticals, etc. The fact that someone is well-versed in techniques of logical argument does not make them right about everything. You're obviously right about that. Ideally, partners in a discussion will have an equal level of immersion in such techniques, and thus the outcome of the discussion will be driven by truth rather than technique. This is, of course, not always the case. You are certainly right that I'm heavily immersed in this sort of discourse. While I was never a debater, I was a public speaker, I've studied formal logic and law, and I've worked in academic and legal settings where this sort of discourse is highly valued. I debate this way because I've been trained to, and it's a natural form of communication to me. I certainly don't think that I'm right about everything because I present my arguments in this fashion.

That said, there is a reason that "debate team type tactics" are valued in contexts, like law and academia, where people with divergent views must discuss/argue to bring themselves closer to a true or correct answer. The reason is because use of such techniques help you to communicate. They help you to understand what someone else is saying. They help you to present what you think. They allow you to pinpoint areas of disagreement and focus on those areas. And so on...

When people are trying to have an actual political discussion or argument, they should be encouraged to USE LOGIC to whatever extent they're capable. That doesn't mean that people ought to sit back, present no argument, use words like syllogism and fallacy, and assume that their vocabulary makes them the winner. But if someone points out a real fallacy, that's a good thing.

The idea that you would physically attack me if we were having a conversation centered around some political disagreement and I tried to use logical argument is lunacy. I understand that you're using hyperbole here, but I'm honestly stunned that you typed that.

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » July 11, 2007, 6:36 pm

I'm sorry Drolgin but your suggestion simply will not work. As I've said before I come here primarily for entertainment. If you want truely flame-free political discourse this is not the place to get it. Let's face it, this forum is an extention of a flame forum based on a game that we all played. Although it has developed into it's own social atmosphere any attempt to change it into something that it was never meant to be will drive more people, including me, away.

Jice I normally agree with 100% of the things you say, including most of what you have said in this thread. However, I take issue with the notion that stupid conservatives drove away smart conservatives. If that is the case then it would also have to apply to liberals as well. I posit that the reason they left has less to do with those people and more to do with the fact that fnord is giant flaming hypocrit.

Insults have always been an underlying theme on this board. You can come here and call me a hairy camel jockey sand nigger and I will not be offended. What does offend me is the propensity of fnord to relentlessly dish out insults and at the same time display an overtly pusillanimous inability to take it. It is so cowardly that it truely shames me to hold the same opinion as these people, much like you claim is the reason people left on the conservative side of the fence.

The issue here, and the reason that this thread pisses me off so much, and in fact the reason I think a lot of people have left the board, is that fnord has never taken the time to look in a fucking mirror to realize exactly how sanctimonious it really is. Cart for example was hugely entertaining to me, whether I was laughing with him or at him. In a single post that guy provided more entertainment than aslanna has in his entire posting history. But he was banned simply because fnord's panties got all waded up about taking it in much the same manner as they dish it out. So what if he was stupid or childish or ignorant? Isn't that the reason we have an ignore feature? There has yet to be a single logical explanation of his banning and the support thereof, especially considering we have an ignore feature. You cannot blame his behaviour when several people, including myself, display the same type of behaviour and are allowed to remain.

Take the title of this thread and replace it with any name in fnord, including the original poster, and it would hold equally true. Not realizing that fact is the ultimate insult and what I find most offensive.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » July 11, 2007, 6:49 pm

Who all exactly does this mystical 'fnord' consist of? Just curious as it sure is referenced a lot by certain people.