Revamping My System

Denadeb · Post by **Denadeb** » December 25, 2006, 5:52 am

Intel is sapposed to drop the prices early next year thats what I'm waiting on for the cpu.

Midgen · Post by **Midgen** » January 14, 2007, 3:15 am

Any updates guys?

I'm pricing out some upgrade hardware and am dwelling on the motherboards in particular.

Winnow, I'm intrigued by the software you mentioned that came with the Gigabyte.

Also, for those who got the new Abit's, which model did you end up with, and how did it work out for you ?

I'm going to be picking up a E6600 and plan to OC it a bit (not extreme).

I'd also be interested in your experiences with aftermarket cooling solutions for this processor.

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » January 14, 2007, 3:44 am

I'd also be interested in your experiences with aftermarket cooling solutions for this processor.

The only aftermarket cooling you need for a non-extreme overclock of an E6600 is AS5. Don't waste money on unneeded fans / heatsinks etc.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » January 14, 2007, 4:43 am

Midgen wrote:Any updates guys?

I'm pricing out some upgrade hardware and am dwelling on the motherboards in particular.

Winnow, I'm intrigued by the software you mentioned that came with the Gigabyte.

Also, for those who got the new Abit's, which model did you end up with, and how did it work out for you ?

I'm going to be picking up a E6600 and plan to OC it a bit (not extreme).

I'd also be interested in your experiences with aftermarket cooling solutions for this processor.

Somewhere I thought I posted a guide on how to easily OC the E6xxx Core2 Duo CPUs.

This is the guide I used:

http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware ... 97995.html

My E6600 2.4 has been running stable at 3.18GHz with stock fan and just the standard memory voltage boosts. The Gigabyte 965P-DS3 MB runs "hot" meaning the voltages are on the high side which I think is even mentioned in that guide.

I don't know what to say other than that I'm loving life with the DS3/E6600 combo. The G.Skill memory I have has worked great as well. I've used G.Skill in the past with good results as well. (there's links to that stuff in one of these threads)

Also, Vista has been just plain awesome. It's rock solid and has taken all the abuse I've thrown it's way while trying out new apps. It's an OS that wows you over time. Nothing is going to stand out and slap you in the face with its greatness but every little thing works better than XP and that adds up.

I'm not sure what software I was talking about with the motherboard. It does have various system monitoring but I would suggest following the guide instead of using the OC software.

Midgen · Post by **Midgen** » January 14, 2007, 5:41 am

Thanks for the updates. I'll defintely check out that link.

The DS3 is currently on backorder at newegg, but is expected in early next week.

I've been grinding hard on Vista myself, and am also impressed with how durable it is.

Have you hooked the 360 HD-DVD player up to your Vista box yet?

I played around with it for a bit today on an older system. I have an eval of WinDVD 8 that I was demo'ing for functinality. My older system has an AGP x1300 installed that isn't HDCP, but is connected to a VGA LDC monitor. Other than the playback being jerky because of the slow processor and inadequate video card, everything worked great.

It's my understanding that you need an HDCP capable card to playback over DVI. I havn't tried this yet.

Thanks again for all of the info.

noel · Post by **noel** » January 14, 2007, 1:32 pm

I'm very happy with my Abit Motherboard.

Currently I'm just waiting for the 8800GTX from either EVGA or BFGTech to drop in price and then that will be my next upgrade.

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » January 14, 2007, 5:45 pm

So I was going to get the E6400 and OC it, from the reports I've seen it's very Overclockable and is still $100 less than the E6600, do you think the extra 2MB of cache will make big difference in the future? That was my original choice but trying to save $$$...

Also, I know it's been a couple of months but the Asus with th 650i chipset looks pretty nice and I have the option to SLI if I ever choose too but I'm not paying $260 for the board, it's like $140.

Thoughts?
Marb

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » January 14, 2007, 9:35 pm

Marbus wrote:So I was going to get the E6400 and OC it, from the reports I've seen it's very Overclockable and is still $100 less than the E6600, do you think the extra 2MB of cache will make big difference in the future? That was my original choice but trying to save $$$...

I have the 6400, and went through the same dilemma.

If you're serious about overclocking, get the 6400. If you're serious about something that specifically needs the cache, get the 6600. But really, really think hard as to why you would be able to justify spending $100 more.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » January 18, 2007, 8:49 pm

These guys took the time to find the average air cooled OCs for the new Intel CPUs:

My E6600 is running @3.18GHz so that looks in line with the chart for the most part. Maybe a little closer to the avg E6700 OC.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » January 19, 2007, 7:16 pm

Here's a nice review of the Gigabyte DS3 (Rev 2) Motherboard for those still pondering Core2 Duo MBs for upgrades:

http://www.techspot.com/review/38-gigab ... ds3p-rev2/

Nice low cost MB myself and flankmen own of the VV peeps.

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » January 20, 2007, 3:18 am

Win is that with the default Heatsink? I got my stuff in tonight but have been rebuiding my wife a new (for her, hehe) PC. Picked up this GREAT CoolerMaster case for $50 (no PS) Centurion I think... If I didn't already have my 1080 Antec I would order one... may have to anyway cause the 8800GTS is a LOT bigger than it looks...

Anyway, I got the Zalman 9700 and some AS5. I will probably give it a few days to burn in before I OC it but I'll let you know. I did take your suggestion and get the GSkill, talking with some other friends this week they have started using it was well.

I went with the 650i chipset... I'll let you guys know how that goes as well.

Marb

noel · Post by **noel** » January 22, 2007, 9:38 pm

For anyone that cares, I traded out my CPU for an E6600 and on stock voltages, with a Zalman CNPS9500 AT on the CPU, here's where I'm at:
http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=159715

31C idle and 47C under extreme load.

CPU : Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 (*1)
CPU Arch : 2 Cores - 2 Threads
CPU PSN : Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU 6600 @ 2.40GHz
CPU EXT : MMX SSE SSE2 SSE3 SSSE3 EM64T
CPU Cache : L1 : 2 x 32/2 x 32 KB - L2 : 4096 KB
Core : Conroe (65 nm) / Revision : B2
CPUID : 6.F.6 / Extended : 6.F
Freq : 3329.13 MHz (369.9 * 9)
----------------------------------
MB Brand : http://www.abit.com.tw/
MB Model : AW9D (Intel i975-ICH7)
NB : Intel i975X rev C0
SB : Intel 82801GB (ICH7) rev 01
----------------------------------
RAM Size : 2048 MB
RAM Freq : 462.4 MHz
RAM Type : DDR2-SDRAM Dual Channel
RAM Ratio : 4:5
RAM Timings : 5-5-5-15
----------------------------------
Slot 1 : 1024MB (PC2-6400)
Slot 1 Manufacturer : Corsair
Slot 2 : 1024MB (PC2-6400)
Slot 2 Manufacturer : Corsair

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » January 22, 2007, 10:28 pm

noel wrote:
----------------------------------
Freq : 3329.13 MHz (369.9 * 9)
----------------------------------

----------------------------------
RAM Size : 2048 MB
RAM Freq : 462.4 MHz
RAM Type : DDR2-SDRAM Dual Channel
RAM Ratio : 4:5
RAM Timings : 5-5-5-15
----------------------------------

Nice. Same E6600, I'm at 3180MHz with 1:1 RAM Ratio with same 5-5-5-15 timings.

I wonder what the performance difference is between 1:1 @3.18 and 4:5 @3.33

I looked around briefly for something like Futuremark's Bench software for Vista but couldn't find anything. It would be interesting to compare and see.

noel · Post by **noel** » January 22, 2007, 10:40 pm

I'm downloading 3D Mark now. Didn't grab the Bench SW yet.

I wanted to run 3dMark before and after the 8800 install even though it's a DX9 app.

My main goal was just to push the box without actually pushing it. I've seen a lot of guys on the Abit forums at 3.6 with that CPU, but some of them are on water and some of them are idling in the high 40s. I have no interest in any of that. I just wanted safe and stable with minimal work.

noel · Post by **noel** » January 23, 2007, 1:31 am

3Dmark Scores with default settings were as follows:
3981 3DMarks
SM2.0 1504
HDR/SM3.0 1449
CPU 2868

AquaMark (which is a bit dated) scores:
Default Benchmark: 74.45 FPS average
GFX 13299
CPU 8457
Overall 74452

We'll see what the 8800 does tomorrow.

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » January 23, 2007, 3:15 pm

I'm running the 6400 stock with the Zalman, it's about 36-36 degrees most of the time, then about 40 under heavy load. Perhaps I didn't put enough greese but the heatsink (zalman 9700) was sliding all over the place trying to put it in (wasn't going to attempt doing it in the case).

My guess is that the heat is from the 3 hard drives, it wsa saying about 38-39 until I removed one of them. I had to move them up from the bottom of the case much closer to the CPU in order to get the GTS in the there (it's big, about half an ince more than my 6800GT... and I think that is an inch less than the GTX).

With everything stock on mine, GSkill at 4,4,4,12 (@2.08v) I'm getting 8160 3D Mark 06. Which according to the website is the fastest out of the systems they tested exactly like mine... very happy so far. I'm looking forward to OCing it sometime this week.

In regards to that, are you guys just upping your FSB? or will your boards allow you to unlock the multiplier. I thought mine would but that feature has been disabled now... grrrr. I've seen the GSkill work fine with an FSB of 350 plus at 2.1 volts, hopefully mine will as well.

Marb

noel · Post by **noel** » January 23, 2007, 3:30 pm

My multiplier is unlocked, but so far I haven't changed it. I upped the RAM voltage to what Corsair recommended (2.10v), and then just upped the FSB. I'm basically copying another guys work on the Abit forums, but I do plan to investigate upping the voltages after I see what the 8800GTX does to my idle temps.

Marb, is that score under XP-SP2? I might downgrade to XP if I have driver issues with the 8800 and Vista. I have the Vista 100.30 leaked beta drivers that I got from guru3d.com and I have driver cleaner pro ready to go when the damn card gets here. I'll see how the Vista drivers go and then make a decision.

Tangent: Yesterday my Vista install asked to be activated. I've got 30 days so I'm not worried (only mildly annoyed), but I had originally followed Xo's post so if you did that be aware that it might start asking.

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » January 23, 2007, 4:22 pm

Yes that's under SP2 with a GTS remember and a 6400. I suspect with a non OCed 6600 and a GTX you should be around 10,000-12,000.

I thought that the only unlocked chip was the extreme edition... going to have to check on that because I would love to just OC the processor and not everything else.

Marb

noel · Post by **noel** » January 23, 2007, 4:28 pm

Marbus wrote:Yes that's under SP2 with a GTS remember and a 6400. I suspect with a non OCed 6600 and a GTX you should be around 10,000-12,000.

I thought that the only unlocked chip was the extreme edition... going to have to check on that because I would love to just OC the processor and not everything else.

Marb

The scores I've been seeing for systems close to mine are in the 9300s (no idea on the OCing status). I did end up getting the BFGTech's OC edition, so we'll see. I'm banging F5 on the stupid FedEx tracking page and all I'm seeing is:

Jan 23, 2007 - 7:47 AM - On FedEx vehicle for delivery

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » January 23, 2007, 4:44 pm

I got a 620 watt Corsair / Seasonic PS so that I could add a GTS or I guess I have 85 days to see if they release something better or I want to go with a GTX... wish I had got the 6600 now though with the 4MB of cache. EQ2 is sooooo processor dependant I need all the speed I can get.

The GTS can run Oblivion at 1280 on my system with EVERYTHING on at 40 fps+ yet I drop to 2 or less in EQ2 if I turn on shadows and have multiple people on the screen... very sad. I've heard it's the fact that the engine is old and the GPU can do so much more now that can be taken off the CPU... well hell, Nvidia helped sponsor EQ2, I have to look at the logo everytime I launch, you would THINK that Smed would figure out a way to update the engine and make it dual processor enabled. I will say thought that with shadows off I'm running everything on MAX textures and it almost seems like I'm fighting different MOBs. Heh, the pet bog off nettleville (started a fury to play with my son) looks 100% different in regards to mobs now.

Marb

noel · Post by **noel** » January 23, 2007, 4:50 pm

Marbus wrote:I got a 620 watt Corsair / Seasonic PS so that I could add a GTS or I guess I have 85 days to see if they release something better or I want to go with a GTX... wish I had got the 6600 now though with the 4MB of cache. EQ2 is sooooo processor dependant I need all the speed I can get.

The GTS can run Oblivion at 1280 on my system with EVERYTHING on at 40 fps+ yet I drop to 2 or less in EQ2 if I turn on shadows and have multiple people on the screen... very sad. I've heard it's the fact that the engine is old and the GPU can do so much more now that can be taken off the CPU... well hell, Nvidia helped sponsor EQ2, I have to look at the logo everytime I launch, you would THINK that Smed would figure out a way to update the engine and make it dual processor enabled. I will say thought that with shadows off I'm running everything on MAX textures and it almost seems like I'm fighting different MOBs. Heh, the pet bog off nettleville (started a fury to play with my son) looks 100% different in regards to mobs now.

Marb

Another tangent:
/rant
That's exactly why I wish people would fucking die when they're pimping the latest beta MMORPG and they post a message on a forum or buy into someone else posting a message on a forum that says:

The reason you're not getting good performance is because the engine is designed for hardware that's not out yet/next gen hardware/etc.

It's fucking bullshit. I saw it in SWG, I read it when EQ2 was coming out, and now I'm hearing it about Vanguard. I have this to say about that: FUCK. THAT.
/rant

Sorry, I had to. That sucks man, but I can't say I'm surprised. The nice thing about loving FPSes is that in general FPS players won't tolerate a game with a shitty engine that doesn't perform. I'm really looking forward to Rainbow Six Vegas when this damn card arrives.

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » January 23, 2007, 4:54 pm

What sucks is that I've heard NWN2 is just as bad but I don't have that... I'm sure some fanbois will argue that it's because it takes so long to develope a good RPG... well now we have Oblivion so that can take that arguement and shove it

EQ2 really is an amazing engine, and I have heard that Vanguard runs great on a 8800 better than EQ2 in fact. However I haven't suffered though the 15GB download to verify as of yet

Marb

noel · Post by **noel** » January 23, 2007, 4:57 pm

I have NWN2. I actually beat it. I don't remember any major issues with the engine, but I only played through the single player campaign. I'll reinstall it and test it out a bit later.

noel · Post by **noel** » January 23, 2007, 5:51 pm

Got it, got it installed.

First Impressions: Damn it's big!

Second impressions: ~~Really loud under load. Will need third-party cooling when it's available.~~
Actually it was just really loud after I booted it, but then it quieted down considerably. Weird, but very happy with that.

Performance so far in the games I care about is spectacular. 1680x1050, Marvel Ultimate Alliance isn't making me wish I had an Xbox 360, and Rainbow Six Vegas is fucking gorgeous (both with maxxed settings that would have made my 7800GT chop-chop-choppy).

3DMark06 performance was literally night and day.

3dMark06: 11104
SM2.0: 4942
HDR/SM3.0: 4945
CPU: 2819

Going to monitor temps now for a bit and see how much the idle and load temps changed to.

Idle temps are now 35C.

Bear in mind these are still beta drivers under a non-optimized OS, so I do expect to see a lot of improvement and optimization in the future. Overall I'm extremely happy.

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » January 23, 2007, 6:20 pm

Sweet! It looks like the Overclocking definitely made a difference too with the 3d numbers. We have Ultimate Alliance for the original X-Box and it looks pretty damn nice on that as well.

Marb

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » May 1, 2007, 1:40 am

Any updated thoughts on this thread? I wasn't really planning on upgrading but when I was in Fry's to get a new HD I decided to get a Antec P182 since they were on sale. So... An empty case just sitting there isn't doing me much good other than something to accidently kick when I walk by. But I could do without that.

I have a 6600 sitting in my NewEgg cart at the moment but that's about as far as I got. I am a bit stumped on Motherboards. I read that Intel will be moving some of their newer processors to 1333 FSB so I would like a MB that supports that if I ever want to upgrade in the future. So far it looks like the Asus P5N32-E SLI but maybe something better has come out since then.

Video.. Undecided. Maybe something like EVGA 640-P2-N821-AR GeForce 8800GTS 640MB which is $360 after rebate isn't that much of a stretch but don't really want to go beyond that. The GTX has some nice numbers but I can't really justify the extra ~$200 at this time.

Already decided on the Tagan modular power supply (600w unless 700 would be better) but unfortunately Newegg is out of stock on all the Tagans.

Memory.. How hard can that be.

Now to get someone to help me put it all together! I will probably run XP for now though until the Vista driver area gets more settled down.

Post by **pyrella** » May 1, 2007, 2:40 am

If you can swing the 200, go for the GTX.

While recently the 'low end' of the best models of the Nvidia/ATI currently had ATI up by 20% or so - http://www.dailytech.com/Article.aspx?newsid=7043

The match up between the high end of the 2 cards, had Nvidia fairly far ahead - http://www.dailytech.com/Article.aspx?newsid=7052

There hasn't been anything I haven't been able to run at max resolution (1920x1200) - with full settings, etc, etc.

Even Vanguard gets 30-45 FPS with max settings (6600 cpu/2gig ram).

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 1, 2007, 12:44 pm

Nice price on the 750gb drive.

A 6600 CPU and 8800GTS should be great. You'll have DX10 covered and can OC to 3GHz if you get bored down the road. (depending on your motherboard/memory combo)

Hang in there with the PSU install in the P182 (and getting the cables up and out of the bottom without interfering with the big fan down there). Unless they changed something, it will still be the biggest challenge. After that's done, the case is outstanding. I haven't had to mess with it at all save cleaning the air filters once every 6 months or so which is very easy with the design. I left my case fans on the middle speed and they don't bother me.(my Case is under my desk on the floor though so that may make a difference with noise levels.

Adding a second HD later will be easy with the HD chamber on the bottom.

With all this hardware, it's time to pirate Vista Ultimate (and Acronis True Image to save yourself from any catastrophes) as it should run very well (as long as you get at least 2GB ram which should be standard now)

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » May 1, 2007, 1:32 pm

I may hold off a bit on the motherboard since I see Gigabyte is close to putting out a DDR3 motherboard. Of course not like there's any DDR3 out there. And once there is it will be expensive for awhile so I'll more than likely just stick with DDR2. Guess I should just make up my mind and go with something now. Not like a motherboard swap would be too difficult later. It's just not something I'd look forward to since it more than likely would involve an OS reinstall. Ugh. Maybe I'd go with Vista at that time but still certain for the initial install I'm going with XP.

I already have Acronis installed. But not actually doing any system backups with it. I will be with the new computer though since I'll go ahead and get a second drive to begin with. Not really sure on size but probably something smaller and cheaper than the 750.

Memory I'm going to just go ahead and get 4GB. 2GB is too easy to fill up these days. And yes I realize XP (or Vista) wont be able to utilize it all unless I use the 64bit version.

As for the video.. I guess I could reconsider on the GTX. If it's anything like my current PC, which I haven't really upgraded in 3.5 years, an extra $200 isn't really a huge deal.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 1, 2007, 2:10 pm

Did you replace the gecko in the geico commercials or something? You're rich!

I'm happy with my 7800GT for now but have the 8800GTX targeted as my next card.

I wouldn't worry about DDR3 too much. I don't think it will make a major difference in performance unless you're OCing your CPU and have everything tweaked out. (I could be wrong on that). A brand new motherboard is going to have issues as well. They always do without exception. I hate waiting around for several bios updates before everything's working right. The DS3 is capable of handing quad cores so you're set in case you need to dro one of those in for $50.00 a few years from now for a performance boost if when more apps take advantage of more than 2 cores.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » May 3, 2007, 6:55 pm

Winnow wrote:Did you replace the gecko in the geico commercials or something? You're rich!

Not rich. Just no debt and not many expenses beyond rent and food. I only upgrade every few years so no sense skimping too much!

Anyway, since I am tired of waiting on Tagans to arrive at Newegg I'm going to choose something else. Probably the Thermaltake W0106RU unless anyone has anything bad to say about it or suggest alternatives.

One more thing, if I need a power extender due to the location of the power supply in the P182, what do I look for on Newegg? It would be the small square connection not the main 20(24?) pin cable which I was able to find extensions for that. Based on the diagram for the MB I was considering, it's way up at the top so I think I'll need one. The main one is on the side so I believe I'll be ok there.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 3, 2007, 7:12 pm

This is what you need to get:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6812198005

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » May 6, 2007, 4:22 am

Thanks. Missed that earlier up in the thread. Added to cart!

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » May 7, 2007, 9:20 pm

Finally submitted order. This is what I ended up getting:

ASUS P5N32-E SLI
Thermaltake W0106RU 700W Power Supply (I got tired of waiting on Tagans to get back in stock)
EVGA 768-P2-N831-AR GeForce 8800GTX
Patriot eXtreme Performance 4GB(2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400)
Intel Core 2 Duo E6600

Along with some miscellaneous stuff like HD and DVD burner. All to stick in the P182 I bought previously. Hoping the video card fits!

I'm actually a bit nervous of the MB and memory playing nice. I read that motherboard was a bit tempermental on the memory. And Newegg has a non-refund policy on the motherboard so... Could be fun times!

Also the more I read about the 8800GTX and the problems some people are having with BSODs and stability... Which is one of the reasons I went with a non-overclocked version. People seemed to think those were more stable. Which is my main concern. My present PC hasn't given me a single problem in the past 3.5 years. To me stability is more desirable than overall super-duper performance.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 7, 2007, 10:25 pm

Wow, $314.99 for 4GB of ram. If it works, that's a great price.

I'm sure you already know you won't see all of the 4GB until you move to a 64bit OS later on.

The video card should fit. If not, you can completely remove the upper hard drive tray from the P182. I did on my P180. I have my HD's down in the bottom chamber where they should be! That leaves lots of room up top for a large video card and also air flow.

Not sure I can hotlink Newegg images:

You only need that upper HD chamber if you have more than four HDs. I also removed the side air duct funneling thingy. I can't tell if the P182 still has that but if you have any troubles with space, leave it off. The P182 has two black thingies where the P180 has a rectangular grill so maybe something different is setup for that area.

Hope it all works!

Did you read any of the memory reviews saying it worked with your MB? That's always promising if you spot someone else that had success with the combo.

Also, best to initially install Xp (if you're sticking with that for now) with one stick of memory and then add the rest. (can try all four and see if it works though) That may have been a quirk with my particular motherboard. Spend your free time searching forums on the motherboard. You might pick up some tips that will save you some grief during the install!

Waikiki · Post by **Waikiki** » May 7, 2007, 10:33 pm

Winnow wrote: I'm sure you already know you won't see all of the 4GB until you move to a 64bit OS later on.

I believe 32-bit Windows XP can handle up to 4GB of ram.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 7, 2007, 10:38 pm

Waikiki wrote:
Winnow wrote: I'm sure you already know you won't see all of the 4GB until you move to a 64bit OS later on.
I believe 32-bit Windows XP can handle up to 4GB of ram.

Kinda:

Feed 4 GB of RAM to 32-bit Windows Vista

- No more memory limitations

By: Marius Oiaga, Technology News Editor

It's a known fact that 32-bit platforms have limitations when it comes to address volumes of memory larger or equal to 4 GB. And in this respect, the x86 editions of Windows Vista are no
exception. Vista will literally eat up RAM, swallowing a consistent amount, larger than 500 MB in the scenario where you would run a 32-bit edition of the operating system on a configuration with 4 GB of RAM.

Windows Vista's memory manager in the x86 variants of the operating system is restricted to 4GB of memory due to the limitations of the 32-bit hardware. The 32-bit address range cannot be filled exclusively with RAM, because the physical address space needs to be divided among the hardware in your system.

Due to these limitations, 32-bit Windows Vista will only be able to address approximately 3.5 GB of RAM. However, there is a way around this. One that will enable you to enjoy the full extent of 4 GB of memory. Still, you should be aware of the fact that in the vicinity of 4 GB of memory, 32-bit Windows Vista will not manage RAM efficiently.

If you indeed want or need to use more than 4 GB of RAM, then you should consider switching to 64-bit platforms. The 64-bit editions of Windows Vista deliver support for as much as 128 GB of memory, so you can go all out.

But as far as 32-bit versions of the operating system are concerned, all you have to do is access cmd via Start, then enter cmd in the search bar and make sure you run it with administrative privileges. Next simply type "BCDEdit /set PAE forceenable" and hit enter. This command will enable Physical Address Extension (PAE) in 32-bit Windows Vista, and the operating system will be able to address memory larger than 4 GB. Via BCDEdit, you will be able to configure the boot configuration data store via the command line.

noel · Post by **noel** » May 7, 2007, 11:52 pm

It's actually somewhat worse than that as I understand it.

If you have a brand new video card with 768MB or RAM, because of the 32-bit limitation, you'll only see 3.25 GB of RAM when you look at your system properties page. I've read that (not yet confirmed) the video card's RAM is included in the 4GB total of adressable RAM. Basically that means there's not much point in having > 2GB of RAM in a 32-bit OS.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » May 8, 2007, 12:45 am

Yeah I knew about not seeing all 4GB. Stated that earlier!

I plan on just putting 32bit XP on there for now. I hear the 64bit drivers (XP and Vista) for a lot of things aren't exactly up to snuff.

Anyway, 3.2GB (or whatever it comes out to) > 2GB. If it becomes a problem I'll just pull one out.

noel · Post by **noel** » May 8, 2007, 1:30 am

I realize you said that earlier, I was just attempting to give some additional insight as to where the memory was allocated and what you could expect to see. Actually, I wasn't trying to help you personally at all, simply to provide information for all. I didn't realize this thread was under your control now. I'll be sure to PM before posting again.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » May 8, 2007, 1:47 am

Winnow wrote:I'm sure you already know you won't see all of the 4GB until you move to a 64bit OS later on.

Aslanna wrote:Yeah I knew about not seeing all 4GB. Stated that earlier!

Sorry. I guess I missed the part where I made it about you.

I appreciate any information people have to add. I'm just not sure why you took my response as you did when it wasn't meant that way.

noel · Post by **noel** » May 8, 2007, 2:24 am

I saw both of those quotes. I didn't see anywhere where the impact of the size of the video RAM was noted.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » May 20, 2007, 11:03 pm

Finally everything installed and operational from what I can tell. Everything has been stable for the past week now. I initially had problems with it crashing when I tried a few games but that seems to have been fixed somehow. I was reading so many posts and trying all sorts of different things so I am not sure what helpled in the end. Probably the voltage settings. Temperatures so far are about 28 CPU / 63 GPU at idle (with case cover off) which doesn't seem too bad.

The drive fit in the middle HD area of the P182 but only in the lower tray slot. If there was a drive placed in the top tray the back would hit the video card and it wouldn't fit. I also did need the 4pin power extension thing. The one from the power supply reached but once you add the video card it made things rather stretchy.

Overall things weren't too hard to get into the case. Honestly the most trouble I had was with trying to get the (stock Intel) heatsink snapped in. One of the push things is still loose so it's probably not in all the way. But the temperature seemed stable so I figured it was good enough and didn't want to risk making one of the others pop off. I did wait until it was mounted before putting it on. I think if I had to do it over again I would have tried to put the heatsink on first. That's what I get for following the manual!

As far as memory goes. XP system properties is showing 3.25GB of RAM. Which didn't come as a surprise. For the reasons stated above.

I moved it up to 3.0Ghz which is good enough for me for now. I might try a little higher later on but I prefer system stability over higher operating temps and system crashes.

3DMark06 scores:

3DMark Score 11210 3DMarks
SM 2.0 Score 5125 Marks
SM 3.0 Score 5032 Marks
CPU Score 2695 Marks

Based on those in comparison to Noel's numbers (while running at 3.33GHz with the 8800GTX overclocked version) leads me to believe at the moment XP is a bit more optimized than Vista. Which makes sense with the state of drivers or whatever. I doubt it's enough to be noticeable either way.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 21, 2007, 12:00 am

Nice! Glad to see it OC'd OK.

I remember upping the voltage for my memory a little but I did that before anything else. The move from 2.4 to 3Ghz is substantial but pushing it much more won't be a huge help. I need to re OC mine. I lost my OC when I reinstalled Vista for some reason...I probably upgraded my MB firmware or something.

Your benchmarks are pretty much in line with Noel's so the gains from extra CPU OC'ing will be minimal. I have no reference point for what those scores mean but I hope it means that everything if speedy with maxed settings.

Did you try putting the hard drive in the lower chamber? That seems like the better spot with the dedicated fan down there.

Hard to judge boot times with your new HD over what you had as you changed to Vista but things should be loading up pretty fast.

I'm heading off to bump my CPU back up to 3.xGHz in a sec! Sometime soon, I'll post some scores with the 6600OC'd (2GB) with a 7800GT for comparison.

I can't justify a 8800GTX until I rebuild another computer with my old X2 CPU for screwing around with risky projects or make a dedicated HTPC box that can use the 7800.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » May 21, 2007, 12:18 am

Noel was Vista. Or so I assumed. I'm still XP.

I do have a HD in the lower chamber. Two of them actually. With the cables cramped in on both sides that fan down there doesn't seem to be doing a whole lot

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 21, 2007, 12:23 am

Aslanna wrote:Noel was Vista. Or so I assumed. I'm still XP.

I do have a HD in the lower chamber. Two of them actually. With the cables cramped in on both sides that fan down there doesn't seem to be doing a whole lot

Ah, so how are the boot times compared to before?

That fan is doing something! If it isn't it means one of the cables is hitting the fan blades. : ) It is pretty cramped down there. i wondered why they have such a fat fan there considering the cramped quarters. The other two fans are much skinnier.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » June 29, 2007, 3:41 pm

What's up with my memory score?

All i could find on how memory scores are calculated is that you need 2GB for a minimum of a 4.5 score. I haven't found how the rest of the score is calculated.

Moving from 2.4 to 3.0 GHz on the e6600 dropped me from 5.1 to 5.0 on memory score so timings do play a part.

What kind of memory scores are others getting? Everything else looks fine. I'm running 5-5-5-15 with a 1:1 ratio. That is pretty loose. I might have to "tighten" them up as they said in "Knocked Up" I know my memory can swing better scores than that! Anyone that's OC'ing getting better memory scores and have lower timings? (Bahnanna, I think you might have a little higher score to begin with because of your 4GB > 2GB Ram which appears to affect the score) doh, nm, forgot you're using XP still.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » June 29, 2007, 7:08 pm

I'm going to attempt to install Vista this weekend in a dual-boot scenario. Hope I don't break anything!

I just dont trust Vista enough to be my main OS at this time and XP works day after day with no issues which is all I need in a PC.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » June 29, 2007, 7:40 pm

No issues for me! Vista has been running extremely stable for the last month!

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » June 29, 2007, 7:55 pm

Boogahz wrote:No issues for me! Vista has been running extremely stable for the last month!

I'm sure it's just fine for a lot of people. That changes nothing!

Besides which this has been discussed already Here!

VeeshanVault

Revamping My System

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