VeeshanVault

I'd focus on how well the grunge albums sold before and after MTV got their hands on Nirvana and Smells Like Teen Spirit.

It's been established that the grunge scene/music existed before Nevermind. The counterpoint put forth is that Nevermind, along with the huge hype surrounding it, is what caused the sales of these albums to increase. It could have been any grunge album perhaps but it turned out to be Nevermind that was hyped so that's why it's influential and will remain historically significant.

I don't have any stats on record sales before/after Nevermind for the genre.

I listened to the entire Nevermind album again last night and I recognized five of the songs as being popular. Lithium, Polly, Smells Like Teen Spirit, Territorial Pissing, and Bloom. I pulled up the lyrics and read them as the songs played. It's a solid album even if not the typical kind of music I listen to.

Nirvana gained a lot of mystique from Kurt Cobain blowing his head off. Many of the lyrics in Nevermind pointed toward suicidal tendancies and then he went ahead and actually did it. Granted, that shouldn't matter concerning the value of the album historically but the way the media works, it makes a big difference.

Whether people like the album or not, the first band/album that pops into people's minds when the history of grunge is discussed is Nirvana - Nevermind. It has significance in the same way Jesus has significance. Their value and importance are way overblown as time goes by but there's no denying Jesus and Nirvana are a factor because people continue to talk about them.

Nirvana > Jesus

Sounds like a poll done by a bunch of ignorant young shitheads who think that anything popular automatically sucks.

Nevermind had two descent singles on it and it definitely was the right thing at the right time, so _maybe_ you could make the argument that it is overrated.

Joshua Tree is definitely far from U2s best albumn, despite being one of their biggest commercial successes, so in the context of the rest of their body of work, yeah ok.

OK Computer? Is there anyone here who has listened to this CD from cover to cover and not liked it? I remember the year it came out. Aside from a rarely played video on MTV it had zero exposure and still sold. I barely listened to anything else for an entire year and still listen to this record on a weekly basis. Sorry you need a brain to enjoy this albumn, whiney shitheads.

Sgt Peppers overrated? Fucking Sacralige. There are people who have built entire careers out of covering tracks off of this record. The same month it came out, Hendrix covered the entire thing in his concerts. Its probably the single most influential albumn of all time.

Jice Virago wrote:
Joshua Tree is definitely far from U2s best albumn, despite being one of their biggest commercial successes, so in the context of the rest of their body of work, yeah ok.

Which one do you like the most?

Its a toss up between War and Achtung Baby.

Aslanna, are you sure you weren't in a coma?

something being overrated is personal opinion and will vary from person to person.

something being influential is stone cold fact.


arguing whether or not something is overrated is about as effective as sticking your dick in the mashed potatoes.

I remember hearing about Nirvana before they really 'broke'. Living on West Coast and going to shows (I still do but not as much) the word of mouth at concerts was something big was going on in Seattle. I remember saying yea right, whatever. At the time music was kind of moving sluggishly. Once Nirvana busted out the flood gates opened and the face of music changed drastically (for the better). You could say it was going to happen at some point without Nevermind just based on the 'underground' music at the time, but IMO Nevermind put it in fastforward.

Truant wrote:arguing whether or not something is overrated is about as effective as sticking your dick in the mashed potatoes.

That kinda depends if they are instant or homemade!

ACK~! I shall never view mashed potatoes the same again

Truant wrote:as effective as sticking your dick in the mashed potatoes.

Is it that kind of party?!

Spang wrote:

Momopi wrote:Because if you look at all the music leading up through 1990 into 1991, it was mostly fluff music and top 40 such as tiffany, rick astley, poison etc.
Once Nirvana hit the airwaves you might notice all that other stuff pretty much stopped all together. They paved the way for record companies to take chances on bands like Alice in chains and Pearl Jam. This new sound was what teens and 20's kids have been looking for to embrace, with the "i don't care attitude" type of music with high energy. In a lot of cases it totally reshaped the way kids thought at the time. Even today you can see there is still a lot of influence from nirvana on todays music. If you like Nirvana or not its irrelevant but the fact remains that Nevermind is by far one of the most influencial albums of our generation.

record labels were already taking chances. the road was already being paved.

Facelift - Original Release Date: August 28, 1990 (Alice in Chains)

Ten - Original Release Date: August 27, 1991 (Pearl Jam)

Nevermind - Original Release Date: September 24, 1991 (Nirvana)

Badmotorfinger - Originial Release Date: October 8, 1991 (Soundgarden)

It's funny, of the four classic grunge albums you list here, I owned 3 (Facelift, Ten, Badmotorfinger) the day they were released. Most people in the hard rock music scene kind of disregarded Nirvana...until MTV latched onto Smells Like Teen Spirit and hyped them to the stars.

Tenuvil wrote:

Spang wrote:

Momopi wrote:Because if you look at all the music leading up through 1990 into 1991, it was mostly fluff music and top 40 such as tiffany, rick astley, poison etc.
Once Nirvana hit the airwaves you might notice all that other stuff pretty much stopped all together. They paved the way for record companies to take chances on bands like Alice in chains and Pearl Jam. This new sound was what teens and 20's kids have been looking for to embrace, with the "i don't care attitude" type of music with high energy. In a lot of cases it totally reshaped the way kids thought at the time. Even today you can see there is still a lot of influence from nirvana on todays music. If you like Nirvana or not its irrelevant but the fact remains that Nevermind is by far one of the most influencial albums of our generation.

record labels were already taking chances. the road was already being paved.

Facelift - Original Release Date: August 28, 1990 (Alice in Chains)

Ten - Original Release Date: August 27, 1991 (Pearl Jam)

Nevermind - Original Release Date: September 24, 1991 (Nirvana)

Badmotorfinger - Originial Release Date: October 8, 1991 (Soundgarden)

It's funny, of the four classic grunge albums you list here, I owned 3 (Facelift, Ten, Badmotorfinger) the day they were released. Most people in the hard rock music scene kind of disregarded Nirvana...until MTV latched onto Smells Like Teen Spirit and hyped them to the stars.

I'm curious, what city were you living in at the time? I was in Los Angeles so they usually played stuff on radio generally before most other cities as far as I knew. I didn't really know about Pearl Jam until maybe a month later and Alice and Chains maybe 6 to 8 months after it was first released. You must have been in the know before hand to get all those the day they were released. Everyone I knew at the release of Nevermind, had bought it the first week it came out.

Tenuvil wrote:It's funny, of the four classic grunge albums you list here, I owned 3 (Facelift, Ten, Badmotorfinger) the day they were released. Most people in the hard rock music scene kind of disregarded Nirvana...until MTV latched onto Smells Like Teen Spirit and hyped them to the stars.

Don't be a fool! If it wasn't for Nirvana's Nevermind you never would have had the opportunity to hear those other bands. That album was so powerfully influential it changed the face of music before it even came out.

Aslanna wrote:

Tenuvil wrote:It's funny, of the four classic grunge albums you list here, I owned 3 (Facelift, Ten, Badmotorfinger) the day they were released. Most people in the hard rock music scene kind of disregarded Nirvana...until MTV latched onto Smells Like Teen Spirit and hyped them to the stars.

Don't be a fool! If it wasn't for Nirvana's Nevermind you never would have had the opportunity to hear those other bands. That album was so powerfully influential it changed the face of music before it even came out.

Give it a rest already. Its a fact that album was highly influential in the music world. Just go back to putting your head in the sand and pretend Nevermind had nothing to do with anything.

Momopi wrote:Give it a rest already. Its a fact that album was highly influential in the music world. Just go back to putting your head in the sand and pretend Nevermind had nothing to do with anything.

I don't think I was really talking to you. But please continue stalking me as it gives me a warm fuzzy feeling in the cockles of my heart. Well maybe not the cockles. Maybe a little below the cockles. Maybe the sub-cockle region. Freak.

Nirvana influenced a fair amount of pop music sure.

The most influential band in terms of sound in the alternapop genre over the last 20 years however is The Pixies. By a mile. Nirvana certainly was influenced by them in my opinion.

Nobody is really that much of an original. People like Hendrix are pretty far out there so they have innovated a style. But those people are few and far between in even the jazz and classical spaces where there is a much higher concentration of truly brilliant musicians.

Voronwë wrote:Nirvana influenced a fair amount of pop music sure.

The most influential band in terms of sound in the alternapop genre over the last 20 years however is The Pixies. By a mile. Nirvana certainly was influenced by them in my opinion.

Nobody is really that much of an original. People like Hendrix are pretty far out there so they have innovated a style. But those people are few and far between in even the jazz and classical spaces where there is a much higher concentration of truly brilliant musicians.

Talking about influential bands and 'alternapop', I'd have to say Wire has been far more influential than even the Pixies. Pink Flag being their most influential and 'copied' album.

The current crop of alterna-garage-pop bands like White Stripes, Franz Ferdinand, The Strokes and The Killers owe thier entire genre to Wire.

/wonders wtf type of drugs Aslanna is on

Nick wrote:/wonders wtf type of drugs Aslanna is on

No, she's not on drugs, all she wanted was a Pepsi!

I'd say what Voronwe said...but he said it...

Nirvana was really pretty much a musical dead end (well constructed derivative pop, nothing really new there)...They were an influence on the music business...

Well, regarding the influence on the music business side, yeah I agree.

I don't agree that they were "nothing new" or "well constructed derivative pop" (this covers the whole subjective side of things ), I think pretty much the opposite of what you just said

Nick wrote:Well, regarding the influence on the music business side, yeah I agree.

I don't agree that they were "nothing new" or "well constructed derivative pop" (this covers the whole subjective side of things ), I think pretty much the opposite of what you just said

Ok so, poorly constructed novel anti-pop?

I didnt read you guys back and forth battle too closely, I just wanted to make sure Aslanna isn't trying to say that Alice in Chains (A totally worthless band) can even be put in the same category as nirvana.

"Ain't no fuckin ballpark neither"

Funkmasterr wrote:I didnt read you guys back and forth battle too closely, I just wanted to make sure Aslanna isn't trying to say that Alice in Chains (A totally worthless band) can even be put in the same category as nirvana.

What the heck are you even talking about? I would suggest actually reading it next time to avoid looking like a dumbass. Not that it will help any.

Funkmasterr wrote:I didnt read you guys back and forth battle too closely, I just wanted to make sure Aslanna isn't trying to say that Alice in Chains (A totally worthless band) can even be put in the same category as nirvana.

"Ain't no fuckin ballpark neither"

bah! I happen to think Alice in chains sounds better than Nirvana ><

Funkmasterr wrote:I didnt read you guys back and forth battle too closely, I just wanted to make sure Aslanna isn't trying to say that Alice in Chains (A totally worthless band) can even be put in the same category as nirvana.

"Ain't no fuckin ballpark neither"

I completely agree. Lumping Alice in Chains with Nirvana would be an insult to Alice in Chains.

Man in the Box = Musical perfection!!

fuck Alice in chains forever for "the rooster". god that insufferable crap was on the radio non-stop.

only Alice in chains song i ever thought was worth a damn was the one on the Singles soundtrack, "Would".

incidentally, a pretty good soundtrack .

NIRVANA KILLED HAIR METAL, AND THAT IS WHY THEY ARE MUSICAL GODS.

Aslanna wrote:

Funkmasterr wrote:I didnt read you guys back and forth battle too closely, I just wanted to make sure Aslanna isn't trying to say that Alice in Chains (A totally worthless band) can even be put in the same category as nirvana.

What the heck are you even talking about? I would suggest actually reading it next time to avoid looking like a dumbass. Not that it will help any.

How do I look like a dumbass? What it seemed like to me is you were trying to say that Alice in Chains album came out before Nirvanna, and that you were arguing that it was also influential (which it wasn't). If I'm wrong, then please elaborate on what I'm misreading.

fuck Alice in chains forever for "the rooster". god that insufferable crap was on the radio non-stop.

I very much agree. When I hear the lead singer's voice of Alice in Chains, he sounds like a good for nothing, dead beat junkee. Curt Kobain might have been exactly this as well but at least he didn't sound like he had been doing heroin for 250 years like that guy does.

Funkmasterr wrote:

Aslanna wrote:

Funkmasterr wrote:I didnt read you guys back and forth battle too closely, I just wanted to make sure Aslanna isn't trying to say that Alice in Chains (A totally worthless band) can even be put in the same category as nirvana.

What the heck are you even talking about? I would suggest actually reading it next time to avoid looking like a dumbass. Not that it will help any.

How do I look like a dumbass? What it seemed like to me is you were trying to say that Alice in Chains album came out before Nirvanna, and that you were arguing that it was also influential (which it wasn't). If I'm wrong, then please elaborate on what I'm misreading.

Momopi mentioned that the record companies wouldn't have taken a chance on the other "grunge bands" and included Alice in Chains in the short list. Aslanna simply posted a list of release dates for those other band's albums to show that they had taken the chance before or shortly after Nevermind. You then read something into posts that was not there. The only time Aslanna mentioned Alice in Chains was in that post with release dates.

It took me less than two minutes to scroll through the posts to just read those.

From working in a record shop pre and during the 'grunge explosion', I can tell you that Alice in Chains was definately not grouped in with the likes of Nirvana, Soundgarden and Pearl Jam.

When Facelift came out, our rep from CBS (Columbia) was pushing Alice in Chains as a metal band. Man in The Box did fairly well on the metal charts and MTV... I think they also did a few opening tour slots for some metal bands. Dirt was a bloody heavy album that really had more in common with Pantera than Pearl Jam.

It wasn't until after 93/94 that they started gettin glumped in with the west coast grunge scene. By that time, they had already made a pretty solid name for themselves as a metal band.


I'm not a fan of Alice in Chains or 'grunge' in general, but Dirt was a fantastic album. I don't care for any of their stuff previous to or after that album.

For all of you rockers, here's all sorts of top ten lists and a top 100 rockers of all time! PDF Format.

Work safe unless big hair is NWS!

Hit Parader Top 100 ~8.5mb

miir wrote:From working in a record shop pre and during the 'grunge explosion', I can tell you that Alice in Chains was definately not grouped in with the likes of Nirvana, Soundgarden and Pearl Jam.

When Facelift came out, our rep from CBS (Columbia) was pushing Alice in Chains as a metal band. Man in The Box did fairly well on the metal charts and MTV... I think they also did a few opening tour slots for some metal bands. Dirt was a bloody heavy album that really had more in common with Pantera than Pearl Jam.

It wasn't until after 93/94 that they started gettin glumped in with the west coast grunge scene. By that time, they had already made a pretty solid name for themselves as a metal band.


I'm not a fan of Alice in Chains or 'grunge' in general, but Dirt was a fantastic album. I don't care for any of their stuff previous to or after that album.

I'm a big fan of both Nirvana and AIC and I would definitely agree that Facelift and Dirt fit more into the metal genre than the grunge scene.

Alice in Chains made quite a departure with the Sap EP and the Jar of Flies EP, both of those are phenomenal in my opinion, the harmonizing that Jerry Cantrell and Layne Staley do on those albums is great, and they are very much not metal albums. If you have disregarded AIC without giving those albums a listen, give either a shot.

Momopi wrote:

Tenuvil wrote:

Spang wrote:

Momopi wrote:Because if you look at all the music leading up through 1990 into 1991, it was mostly fluff music and top 40 such as tiffany, rick astley, poison etc.
Once Nirvana hit the airwaves you might notice all that other stuff pretty much stopped all together. They paved the way for record companies to take chances on bands like Alice in chains and Pearl Jam. This new sound was what teens and 20's kids have been looking for to embrace, with the "i don't care attitude" type of music with high energy. In a lot of cases it totally reshaped the way kids thought at the time. Even today you can see there is still a lot of influence from nirvana on todays music. If you like Nirvana or not its irrelevant but the fact remains that Nevermind is by far one of the most influencial albums of our generation.

record labels were already taking chances. the road was already being paved.

Facelift - Original Release Date: August 28, 1990 (Alice in Chains)

Ten - Original Release Date: August 27, 1991 (Pearl Jam)

Nevermind - Original Release Date: September 24, 1991 (Nirvana)

Badmotorfinger - Originial Release Date: October 8, 1991 (Soundgarden)

It's funny, of the four classic grunge albums you list here, I owned 3 (Facelift, Ten, Badmotorfinger) the day they were released. Most people in the hard rock music scene kind of disregarded Nirvana...until MTV latched onto Smells Like Teen Spirit and hyped them to the stars.

I'm curious, what city were you living in at the time? I was in Los Angeles so they usually played stuff on radio generally before most other cities as far as I knew. I didn't really know about Pearl Jam until maybe a month later and Alice and Chains maybe 6 to 8 months after it was first released. You must have been in the know before hand to get all those the day they were released. Everyone I knew at the release of Nevermind, had bought it the first week it came out.

Lived in CT at the time, with access to lots of underground record shops like Bleecker Bob's in NYC and Newbury Comics in Boston. Cutler's in New Haven also had a great selection of metal/thrash/grunge, lots of indie stuff. There was a college station out of the University of New Haven (88.7 WNHU ) that every Saturday night played an unreal metal show. Heard Metallica and Slayer on that station back in 1982. Thru those sources we picked up on grunge long before it became a consumer juggernaut.

I read (and still read) the underground music mags like, at the time, Kerrang and others whose names escape me, and these days Brave Words & Bloody Knuckles. Me and my friends actually had cassette demos of AIC and Soundgarden a year or so before the albums were released.

Holy shit, bands I've heard of!

Pet Sounds and, subsequently, Sgt. Peppers should have no part of this clown's list.

Boogahz wrote:

Funkmasterr wrote:

Aslanna wrote:

Funkmasterr wrote:I didnt read you guys back and forth battle too closely, I just wanted to make sure Aslanna isn't trying to say that Alice in Chains (A totally worthless band) can even be put in the same category as nirvana.

What the heck are you even talking about? I would suggest actually reading it next time to avoid looking like a dumbass. Not that it will help any.

How do I look like a dumbass? What it seemed like to me is you were trying to say that Alice in Chains album came out before Nirvanna, and that you were arguing that it was also influential (which it wasn't). If I'm wrong, then please elaborate on what I'm misreading.

Momopi mentioned that the record companies wouldn't have taken a chance on the other "grunge bands" and included Alice in Chains in the short list. Aslanna simply posted a list of release dates for those other band's albums to show that they had taken the chance before or shortly after Nevermind. You then read something into posts that was not there. The only time Aslanna mentioned Alice in Chains was in that post with release dates.

It took me less than two minutes to scroll through the posts to just read those.

Allow me to elaborate a bit on why I didn't gather this information myself..
when most of the first page is back and forth between two people, i start skipping posts like 5 or 6 at a time, regaurdless of who wrote them.

It's kind of like a Stephen King novel where you know there are points that you can skip a few pages without even skimming them first.

I saw Aslanna's post and it caught my eye for some reason or another so I read it. I deducted what I wanted to from it (Something I like to do at times) , and was unfortunately wrong.

After the then unavoidable retarded post by Aslanna, where he/she did as I thought, and instead of pointing out that I was way off base and explaining why (If I can do it, he/she/it can) it just says something completely fucking pointless as usual, along the way making the mistake tthat it's opinion holds any more weight than a feather to me, or that it's comments that it thinks are witty are going to do anything other than make me yawn.

Just figured I would explain to you why I didn't deduct what you wrote.. In short, I don't care, I just like to stir something up once in a while to be honest, because as someone once told me about these forums - "The inmates are truly running the asylum."

Momopi wrote:

Aslanna wrote:

Momopi wrote:Nevermind isnt an overrated album due to the fact is was so influential. I'm trying to explain that in different ways but you are having none of it.

Yeah, because the one main way that you've explained it so far had a faulty premise.

Momopi wrote:They paved the way for record companies to take chances on bands like Alice in chains and Pearl Jam.

That would be influential in some ways if true. But those bands already had albums out before Nevermind. I fail to see any influence from Nevermind on that. So why exactly was it so influential?

You honestly fail to see that Nevermind had any influence on anything?

nevermind had a lot of influence, unfortunately 95% of it was negative...leading into the skill-less pop rock and new punk thats popular now

Overated Album:Mike Jones -Who is Mike Jones?

StupidMcDupid wrote:Overated Album:Mike Jones -Who is Mike Jones?

Can't be overrated if you don't get the ratings...

The album had a couple good songs on it, but the whole "Who...Mike Jones...who...Mike Jones..." bit is overplayed, not overrated.

Boogahz wrote:

StupidMcDupid wrote:Overated Album:Mike Jones -Who is Mike Jones?

Can't be overrated if you don't get the ratings...

The album had a couple good songs on it, but the whole "Who...Mike Jones...who...Mike Jones..." bit is overplayed, not overrated.

lol, Who?dike jones.It's all about Chamillitary Mayne!!

StupidMcDupid wrote:

Boogahz wrote:

StupidMcDupid wrote:Overated Album:Mike Jones -Who is Mike Jones?

Can't be overrated if you don't get the ratings...

The album had a couple good songs on it, but the whole "Who...Mike Jones...who...Mike Jones..." bit is overplayed, not overrated.

lol, Who?dike jones.It's all about Chamillitary Mayne!!

I had to google Mike Jones to figure out who the hell this alleged 'overrated' guy was.

So let me get this straight. Some pop/rap artist with one semi-popular song who is popular with suburban american 'kids' (15-25) and who holds little-to-no appeal to anyone outside that demographic is overrated?

Looking for reviews online for this album I discovered that he's basically a one (maybe 2) hit pop/rap wonder with zero longevity. The only people overrating mike jones are the pop/rap fans who devour the flavour of the week artists the record companies and coporate radio are cramming down their throats.

Comparing forgettable pop trash to the influential yet overrated material in this thread is just laughable.

I think we can all agree on one point:
Nirvanas music and Kurt's suicide heavily influenced Courtny Love as an "artist" (and I use the term loosely).

Pretty much that whole list is shit, as music taste is very subjective. I know it would be blasphemy to even think this while browsing these forums, but my top 10 overrated albums list would look something like this:


1. U2 - October
2. U2 - Under A Blood Red Sky
3. U2 - The Unforgettable Fire
4. U2 - Wide Awake In America
5. U2 - Rattle and Hum
6. U2 - Melon
7. U2 - Pop
8. U2 - Hasta La Vista Baby
9. U2 - All That You Can't Leave Behind
10. U2 - How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb

I think his "fame" is more of a regional thing. The local stations play some of his stuff fairly regularly, but they overplay the quote I used above.

Boogahz wrote:I think his "fame" is more of a regional thing. The local stations play some of his stuff fairly regularly, but they overplay the quote I used above.

yeah, he says his name like that (Who? Mike Jones,Who? Mike Jones) in just about every song he sings, and it seems he doesn't know what else to say but just his name,his cell number (like we care),and that his album is coming soon(Who is Mike Jones?) which already came out.