VeeshanVault

Posted: **November 21, 2004, 5:46 pm**

Oh, and because the question asked who was most to blame, I selected The Fans. They're all to blame, but the fans started it and that counts most for me.

Fan behaviour has been way across the line for years and I wouldn't want to take kids to most professional sports and expose them to fan behavior. Fans have been mollycoddled because they pay the bills, but I'm hoping this event will force the league to rein them in.

Posted: **November 21, 2004, 8:07 pm**

ESPN breaking news

NBA Takes A Stand
The NBA responded harshly to the fight Friday in Detroit. Ron Artest will not play this year. Stephen Jackson will miss 30 games, Jermaine O'Neal 25, Ben Wallace six and Anthony Johnson five. Four others received one-game suspensions and fines.

Posted: **November 21, 2004, 8:10 pm**

Ron Artest was suspended for the rest of the season Sunday as the NBA came down hard on three members of the Indiana Pacers for fighting with fans when a melee broke out at the end of a game against the Detroit Pistons.

Overall, nine players from the teams were banned for 143 games, including some of the harshest penalties the league ever issued. Artest is the first player to be suspended for nearly an entire season for a fight during a game.
Indiana's Stephen Jackson was suspended for 30 games and Jermaine O'Neal for 25. Detroit's Ben Wallace - whose shove of Artest after a foul led to the 5-minute fracas - drew a six-game ban, while Pacers guard Anthony Johnson got five games.

Four players were suspended for a game apiece: Indiana's Reggie Miller, and Detroit's Chauncey Billups, Elden Campbell and Derrick Coleman.

All of the suspensions are without pay.

Artest, O'Neal and Jackson - who all threw punches at fans in the stands or on the court at the end of the nationally televised Pacers-Pistons game Friday night - began serving their suspensions Saturday. Indiana, limited to just six players because of the suspensions and injuries, dropped an 86-83 decision to Orlando.

Posted: **November 21, 2004, 8:16 pm**

Good news! This is the first GOOD thing the NBA has done in years, aside from the lockout a while back!

Posted: **November 21, 2004, 8:24 pm**

BTW: Yaaaayyyyy!!!!!

: D

PS: HAVE FUN ON YOUR RAP ALBUM BITCH!!!! I HOPE YOU CHOKE ON A COCK!!

Posted: **November 21, 2004, 9:26 pm**

It will be interesting to see the stance of the player's union on this. I'm sure there will be appeals all around. Now the lawyers and agents do their work.

Posted: **November 21, 2004, 11:12 pm**

I like it, except for Oneil, correct me if I am wrong but he never entered the stands, instead in a riot enviornment he punched a fan out that came after him on the court... if that is correct he should not get any more then the 1 game the others got

Posted: **November 22, 2004, 12:38 am**

Was about to say the same.

Posted: **November 22, 2004, 1:08 am**

Pherr the Dorf wrote:I like it, except for Oneil, correct me if I am wrong but he never entered the stands, instead in a riot enviornment he punched a fan out that came after him on the court... if that is correct he should not get any more then the 1 game the others got

O'Neal sucker punched a guy that was on his knees. No one was going after him. Security was in the process of trying to subdue the dumbfucks who were on the court when O'Neal fucked his shit up (It was one of the hardest punches that I have seen land in a fight). Though 25 games is excessive IMO but then again the only person's opinion who matters is Stern's.

I think O'neal's punishment should have been more than 5 but less than 15.

Posted: **November 22, 2004, 1:22 am**

I agree with the penalties except for one.. Why the hell did they give Reggie Miller a one game suspension? From what I saw of the footage, wasn't he trying to hold Artest back to make sure he didn't do anything else? I didn't see him get involved with any Detroit player or fan.

If I'm wrong please correct me. Rather curious.

Posted: **November 22, 2004, 1:38 am**

There is a mandatory one game suspension for anyone who leaves the bench during an altercation.

Posted: **November 22, 2004, 1:42 am**

Thanks for the clarification Crav..It's still fucking stupid though.

Posted: **November 22, 2004, 1:44 am**

I think the NBA did the right thing and has sent a very cleary message to the players. Though I think some of the punishments are definitely on the harsh side, erring on the side of harsh might prevent anything like this happening ever again.

I think the Pacers bench probably wasn't the safest spot in the palace that night, so I can't really blame the guys for coming off the bench.

It will be interesting to see how Indiana, potentially a playoff team, or a team that could have even gone to the finals will do in the absence of their three best players. They played with a lot of heart last night against the magic, but with only 6 guys they can't keep that up.

Posted: **November 22, 2004, 1:49 am**

Sucks to be an Indiana fan.

The league did the right thing. Chaos on the courts had to be delt with harshly. The only thing different I would have done would have been to suspend Ben Wallace for 10 games instead of 5. It's his initial asshattery that caused the whole thing. You'll get hard fouls all the time in the NBA. Players need to learn to deal with them.

Posted: **November 22, 2004, 3:35 am**

No way, Wallace's suspension was more than he deserved. I can see why he got it, since there were big suspensions all around, but him pushing Artest isn't all that uncommon after a hard foul like that, particularly with the history between the two.

The truth of the matter is that Wallace would have gotten a one-game or no suspension at all if Artest hadn't gone into the stands. Fans wouldn't have come onto the court if Artest hadn't gone into the stands. Ron Artest is entirely to blame for making this situation escalate where similar incidents happen all the time and end with the shove, and he got what he deserved.

Posted: **November 22, 2004, 10:19 am**

jackson should be gone for the season also. he got off light.

all suspensions without pay and the top 3 pacer suspension leaders combined for over 11m in fines.

i don't think beer was a factor in this "brawl". i seriously doubt wallace, artest, etc were drunk. you can't punish the fans. they paid to watch basketball...not a damn royal rumble.

Posted: **November 22, 2004, 10:51 am**

Much like a dog, a man can only be pushed so far before he fights back. He had removed hisself from the situation on the court like a real man and was collecting his thoughts when a fucking beer slammed him in the face from the fans. In the same situation, I would have kicked some ass as well. Basketball used to be played in a cage, looks like it has to go back to that because of children in the stands. Blame is 100% on the fans in this one in my eyes and the NBA reacted way too harshly before looking into the matter.

Posted: **November 22, 2004, 10:59 am**

i'd agree with that if the beer was thrown in the mniddle of the actual game...but it happened after they stopped playing b'ball and brought out the gloves. can't fault the fans.

Posted: **November 22, 2004, 11:06 am**

Jackson was far worse than Artest imo. I would have switched their punishments. He was f'ing nuts trying to cause all sorts of problems. Why someone didn't get Artest out of there before the fan threw something is beyond me.

Besides that, the fans that came onto the court should go to jail for 6 months. if a guy running from 1st to 2nd at Shea stadium gets 3, these guys, especially that fat one that squared Artest, should get 6.
Then you take the film, get the names of every piece of shit standing over the tunnel throwing ice and beer and shit should be fined a minimum of $500. Fucking animals with a mob mentality.

Posted: **November 22, 2004, 11:22 am**

Can't fault the fans? Are you on crack? Did you even see the fans behave like animals? They should be banned from all sporting events for life.

Wallace's suspension is fine.
Artest's suspension is ok although harsh.
O'Neal's suspension is way too harsh.
Jackson's was too light. He should be gone for the season, and I wouldn't have complained if he got the rest of the season and Artest got 50 games.

Posted: **November 22, 2004, 11:28 am**

you can't fault the fans for what started the whole thing, wallace shoving artest. the (drunk) fans had nothing to do with that. if the players had been more professional, none of this happens.

and what i meant by punishing the fans, don't get rid of beer at games.

fines, jail time, bannings, etc...that's fine. just don't punish everybody by removing beer from professional sports.

Posted: **November 22, 2004, 11:31 am**

Spang wrote:jackson should be gone for the season also. he got off light.

all suspensions without pay and the top 3 pacer suspension leaders combined for over 11m in fines.

i don't think beer was a factor in this "brawl". i seriously doubt wallace, artest, etc were drunk. you can't punish the fans. they paid to watch basketball...not a damn royal rumble.

I agree on Jackson. He wasn't provoked like Artest, and I think his suspension should have been the same.

Posted: **November 22, 2004, 11:42 am**

Spang wrote:you can't fault the fans for what started the whole thing, wallace shoving artest. the (drunk) fans had nothing to do with that. if the players had been more professional, none of this happens.

and what i meant by punishing the fans, don't get rid of beer at games.

fines, jail time, bannings, etc...that's fine. just don't punish everybody by removing beer from professional sports.

The fans were the ones throwing beer on the court. The little scuffle was almost about to end when FANS threw shit at them. How can they not be at fault.

Also, they continued to throw beer while the players walked off the court and into the rooms.

Posted: **November 22, 2004, 11:56 am**

not every liquid at an NBA game is beer. did you notice the ice being thrown at them? the mountain dew? i have never known a person to drink beer with ice. maybe in detroit they do that, i dunno. it wasn't all just beer.

but the question being asked (for once i'm trying to stay on topic)

Who is most at fault for last night's incident?

my answer to that was and still is, the players.

Posted: **November 22, 2004, 12:20 pm**

noel wrote:Oh, I want to add that any fan that so much as approached a player who was on the floor deserved anything they got. I was 100% glad to see Artest and O'Neal knock the shit out of the two fans who approached them on the floor.

Bullshit. This is a result of the NBA allowing these giant fucking egos in straight out of highschool. These fucking inner city idiots have zero maturity, professional athletes simply do not act that way. You didn't see Reggie Miller out there throwing punches did you? Nope, he was trying to hold Artest back. Think Jordan would have done that?

Nope.

These faggots should be kicked out of the nba permanently and not be paid.

Posted: **November 22, 2004, 12:36 pm**

Kelshara wrote:If the guy who got hit sues and wins it will personify everything that is wrong and pathetic with this country and lawsuits.

you're a fucking moron if you think the lawsuits aren't justified. i hope the players lose all their endorsements, and Artest should be kicked out of the fucking NBA and hopefully shot in the parking lot.

Posted: **November 22, 2004, 12:39 pm**

Winnow wrote:Ben Wallace should be suspended for the season. Everyone else is ok. He's the one that lost his cool after being fouled. He needs to take some lessons from other big men about how to not lose your grip after someone fouls you.

We have some Artest haters here. There's an excellent chance some of us would have gone into the stands as well after getting nailed with a full beer. That fan must have thought he was pretty cool for about 2 seconds until he saw Artest coming at him full steam. He got what he deserved.

Again, fans need to keep out of the game. It doesn't matter if there's an all out brawl on the court. They can't be throwing shit at the players. Ben Wallace, for overreacting to a foul by pushing Artest in the face, and the Detroit Fans are the ones to blame here.

The fan he attacked didn't throw the beer.

Posted: **November 22, 2004, 12:46 pm**

Stragi wrote:
Winnow wrote:Ben Wallace should be suspended for the season. Everyone else is ok. He's the one that lost his cool after being fouled. He needs to take some lessons from other big men about how to not lose your grip after someone fouls you.

We have some Artest haters here. There's an excellent chance some of us would have gone into the stands as well after getting nailed with a full beer. That fan must have thought he was pretty cool for about 2 seconds until he saw Artest coming at him full steam. He got what he deserved.

Again, fans need to keep out of the game. It doesn't matter if there's an all out brawl on the court. They can't be throwing shit at the players. Ben Wallace, for overreacting to a foul by pushing Artest in the face, and the Detroit Fans are the ones to blame here.
The fan he attacked didn't throw the beer.

That is true, unless the guy was double fisting the guy Artest attacked still had a cup in his hand when Artest started wailing on him.

I read an article on the Indianapolis Star in which the guy Artest was wailing on was interviewed. He stated Artest staarted punching him and asked if he was the guy who threw the beer. When the guy replied that he had not threw the beer, Artest simply moved on to the next fan.

Posted: **November 22, 2004, 12:59 pm**

Morgrym wrote:Much like a dog, a man can only be pushed so far before he fights back. He had removed hisself from the situation on the court like a real man and was collecting his thoughts when a fucking beer slammed him in the face from the fans.

He only removed himself from the on court situation because Ben Wallace was the one who was after him. If it was any player smaller than him, I'm certain Artest would have not hesitated in fighting back. He realized he fucked up and made the wrong person pissed and then he retreated.

All his claims of self defense are utter bullshit. What is more life threatening a 6'8" 250 pound person who wants to kick your ass or a 5'8" 160 pound innocent fan with his cup still in his hand?

Posted: **November 22, 2004, 1:21 pm**

Agree with the sentiment that Jackson should be out for the season as well. It would quelch some of the bullshit arguments that 'Artest is the fall guy'.

Posted: **November 22, 2004, 1:22 pm**

Stragi wrote:
Kelshara wrote:If the guy who got hit sues and wins it will personify everything that is wrong and pathetic with this country and lawsuits.
you're a fucking moron if you think the lawsuits aren't justified. i hope the players lose all their endorsements, and Artest should be kicked out of the fucking NBA and hopefully shot in the parking lot.

The guy who was on the court has no right to sue. I am sure he will and I am sure he will win as this country gives anyone who sues a gazillion dollars. You should sue your parents for dropping you on the head, I am sure you would win since the evidence is overwhelming.

Posted: **November 22, 2004, 1:49 pm**

Another take on this.

The suspensions didn't do anything to discourage the home team fans from causing trouble on the courts. While the Detroit players really don't need to be suspended (except for another few games for Wallace), the fact that the player suspensions were so lopsided toward the visiting team encourages home fans to try and start shit.

The suggestion I heard on a talk radio show was to take away some home games from Detroit. I think this is an excellent idea. This sets a precedent that the fans need to act civil or hurt their own team by losing home games. The suggestion was to take 10-15 home games away from Detroit which is an excellent idea. (when considering this, don't look at it from a Detroit fanboi view but from an neutral viewpoint)

As it stands, I could go to a Suns game and start chucking beers and popcorn at opposing players with a great chance of getting them suspended for 20+ games while my team is barely fined if at all. The home fans actions need to be addressed.

Posted: **November 22, 2004, 1:59 pm**

I'm not sure what's more dangerous, throwing beer at players in detriot or having archery practice from the mezzanine on up during a Nets game.

hmmm, gotta go w/ the former

Posted: **November 22, 2004, 2:04 pm**

Winnow wrote:As it stands, I could go to a Suns game and start chucking beers and popcorn at opposing players with a great chance of getting them suspended for 20+ games while my team is barely fined if at all. The home fans actions need to be addressed.

No, you could chuck a beer at an opposing player, and when he doesn't bumrush the stands and instead waits for 30 seconds for security to escort you out of the stadium, he can continue playing after the minor interruption.

I don't know why you are blaming anyone but Artest for the whole thing. This isn't the first time a fan has thrown something at a player, and it's not the first time a player has pushed another player after a hard foul. It is the first time that an NBA player has run into the stands and attacked several people though. gg Ron!

Posted: **November 22, 2004, 2:11 pm**

This is an isolated incident where a chain reaction of events spiraled out of control. I'm sad it happened in Detroit because I'm sure the same thing could have happened in any other venue in the U.S where Ron Artest is playing. Every home game in Detroit does not end in a riot. These people that were on the court and chucking beers will be prosecuted and dealt with. For a person to rationalize and go to the arena to start trouble is hooliganism. In this case, I do not believe the beer throwing was premeditated before the game in hope to see Artest, Jackson, and O'Neal to get suspended for 25 plus games. If it was premeditated before the game and not in the heat of the moment, these guys deserve prison sentences rather than jailtime.

The suspensions were lopsided because they attacked fans. Many other cases player vs. player altercations have warranted 1-5 game suspensions. Most recently, the Bulls Curry was suspended 2 games for throwing a punch and instigating an on the court scuffle between players. His punch was worse than Wallace's shove but his shove resulted in fan violence so he gets 6 games. I doubt Wallace's intentions were to have Pacer's beating up fans but he got a harsher punishment because of the severity of the events that followed.

Posted: **November 22, 2004, 2:23 pm**

I suggested viewing this from a non Detroit fan perspective. Right now, it appears that fans aren't being punished for throwing things. You guys keep saying Artest went into the stands...well where's the restraint from the fans? Pouring beer and throwing ice, chairs, etc?

Back off from the situation and you'll see that the fans were out of control as well. Just as Artest shouldn't have gone into the stands (after getting nailed with a full glass of liquid), the fans shouldn't have come onto the courts, shouldn't have thrown all manner of things including ice, beer, chairs, etc, and shouldn't have rushed to the exits to continue to do so.

The fans need to be addressed. I don't care if it was isolated...wasn't Artest going into the stands isolated as well? Be fair. You are being biased in your judgement. Just as Wallace overreacted, as Artest overreacted, so too did the fans. Take some games away from the home team and that should balance this out for all involved.

Posted: **November 22, 2004, 2:38 pm**

That kinda punishes management too though, but I guess it could be a wake up call for them aswell. I say take away the beer and snacks for 15 games!

Posted: **November 22, 2004, 2:40 pm**

I was listening to an ESPN radio show last night, and the lead prosecutor for Oakland County, who's investigating the incident said that it was likely going to take over a week to bring charges etc. because there's so much information to go over. This includes all of the TV feeds, all of the security camera feeds, hundreds of witness interviews, security interviews, law enforcement personnel interviews, etc.

Allegedly, any fan who was throwing things, chairs, beer, etc. can be charged. Any fan that stepped on to the court could be charged with trespassing, and potentially won’t have the ability to sue (only if they were on the court) for getting their clocks cleaned by O’Neal or Artest. I’ll say it again. Piston fan, in his Ben Wallace jersey and hat, had NO BUSINESS being on the court. Artest created an environment for mayhem and lawlessness, but the Detroit fans added to it.

Additionally, there’s the other aspect of the way the law reads on the concept of self-defense. Apparently if you believe that your life, or the life of another person is in danger, you can respond in self-defense or to defend that other person. So basically, the fans that initially jumped on Artest can claim (legitimately or not) that they were coming to the aid of the guy Artest attacked.

If they can find the person who initially threw the beer/soda/whatever, Artest apparently has a legitimate assault argument he can use if he wants to see that person charged, but somehow I doubt we’ll see a charge from him at this point… That said, if you are assaulted, you can’t just attack a random person, and say you were defending yourself. It has to be the person that assaulted you.

I think there are going to be numerous lawsuits, and I expect to see multiple fans (specifically near the tunnel and only if they can be identified) charged with assault. I expect to see the guy who was on the floor charged with trespassing, I expect to see Artest, Jackson, and potentially O’Neal charged with assault.

Posted: **November 22, 2004, 2:41 pm**

fans are right on top of the players and at the same time the players are right on top of the fans.

NBA arenas need plexiglass installed between the players and the fans. like they have in NHL arenas and in some MLB parks.

2 things won't happen again...'professional' athletes laying on the scorers table playing with the headsets won't get beer thrown on them and said players won't run into the stands beating down on fans.

Posted: **November 22, 2004, 2:42 pm**

Kelshara wrote:
Stragi wrote:
Kelshara wrote:If the guy who got hit sues and wins it will personify everything that is wrong and pathetic with this country and lawsuits.
you're a fucking moron if you think the lawsuits aren't justified. i hope the players lose all their endorsements, and Artest should be kicked out of the fucking NBA and hopefully shot in the parking lot.
The guy who was on the court has no right to sue. I am sure he will and I am sure he will win as this country gives anyone who sues a gazillion dollars. You should sue your parents for dropping you on the head, I am sure you would win since the evidence is overwhelming.

Did the guy start punching artest or start waving around a weapon? He stopped on the floor and artest punched him in the fucking face, then he got jumped by a COACH.

You're a dumbfuck to think that's justified. This is a professional sport, and these thugs are ruining it. This incident only further supports my thoughts.

HAY GUYS IM GOING TO TAKE TIME OFF TO PROMOTE MY NEW ALBUM BY BEATING THE SHIT OUT OF INNOCENT FANS

Posted: **November 22, 2004, 3:23 pm**

What the fuck do you think the fan was going to do once he made it onto the court. Give flowers to Artest and shake his hand? He was looking for trouble and found it.

Posted: **November 22, 2004, 3:28 pm**

Stragi wrote:
Did the guy start punching artest or start waving around a weapon? He stopped on the floor and artest punched him in the fucking face, then he got jumped by a COACH.

Just like in a concert where you can't jump up on stage, in sports, you can't go onto the playing field, court, whatever it is.

As for the plexiglass idea, I can easily rainbow a beer over a plexiglass wall with deadly accuracy : ) I think it's a good idea though. It works well in Hockey even if they throw stuff on the court/rink, it's usually only dead squids and such.

I thought the riot cops during the world series that came onto the field were effective : ) The NY fans shut up pretty quick when they were face to face with riot police. This must be an east coast thing.

Posted: **November 22, 2004, 4:01 pm**

I guess it all depends on what type of beer it was.

Actually what impressed me is that the fan on the floor took that punch and barely flinched.

Personally I think Wallace should have gotten a larger suspension. If he hadn't carried on like he did while Artest was laying on the table things may have calmed down a bit. I actually thought Artest did the right thing by backing away and not fighting back. Then ofcourse his jumping into the stands just eliminated all crediblity of the previous statement.

Posted: **November 22, 2004, 4:04 pm**

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/b ... ml?cnn=yes

PONTIAC, Mich. (AP) -- Fans, players and other team personnel could face criminal charges for their roles in a brawl that broke out at the end of an Indiana Pacers-Detroit Pistons game at The Palace of Auburn Hills, a prosecutor said.

Oakland County Prosecutor David Gorcyca said he repeatedly viewed a videotape of the melee at Friday night's game. He said authorities have identified and questioned a fan who they say threw a cup that hit Indiana's Ron Artest and started the brawl.

A resident of West Bloomfield Township confirmed in a telephone conversation with Auburn Hills police that he is that fan, Gorcyca said Monday. However, he failed to show up for a scheduled in-person interview, and authorities have lost contact with him.

Gorcyca said the man most likely would face charges.

"He, I think, precipitated the whole event that transpired in the spectator section," Gorcyca told WXYZ-TV on Sunday. "I think he's going to be facing some criminal charges."

Asked whether players would be charged, the prosecutor said: "I don't want to pinpoint players, but I would say yes. Based upon what I've seen, I believe there will be some charges levied against certain players."

Personnel for both teams also are among the circle of people who might face charges, Gorcyca said.

Gorcyca said police have received some witness statements, but he said he doubted any of the players would help the investigation.

"Auburn Hills has made contact with the NBA about player interviews, but I suspect very strongly that they will on advice of counsel probably not cooperate with the investigation," he said.

As Gorcyca spoke Monday, he was on his way to a meeting with Auburn Hills police about the case. He said he doubted any charges would be brought Monday.

On Sunday, the NBA suspended Artest for the rest of the season. The league suspended Indiana's Stephen Jackson for 30 games and teammate Jermaine O'Neal for 25. Detroit's Ben Wallace -- whose shove of Artest after a foul led to the five-minute fracas -- drew a six-game ban, while Pacers guard Anthony Johnson got five games.

Four players -- Indiana's Reggie Miller, and Detroit's Chauncey Billups, Elden Campbell and Derrick Coleman -- were suspended one game apiece for leaving the bench during the initial incident.

Posted: **November 22, 2004, 4:55 pm**

I'm OK with the punishments, but agree with Winnow that, if the Pacers involved in this incident are to be made an example of, the Pistons fans involved must receive the same treatment. I like the solution of taking away home games, as it punishes the fans, the team, and the organization for the altercation. The big problem is that home games = revenue, and the league would never mess with it's own economic structure, no matter how happy it may be to fuck with the finances of players.

Posted: **November 22, 2004, 5:27 pm**

Winnow wrote:I suggested viewing this from a non Detroit fan perspective. Right now, it appears that fans aren't being punished for throwing things. You guys keep saying Artest went into the stands...well where's the restraint from the fans? Pouring beer and throwing ice, chairs, etc?

Back off from the situation and you'll see that the fans were out of control as well. Just as Artest shouldn't have gone into the stands (after getting nailed with a full glass of liquid), the fans shouldn't have come onto the courts, shouldn't have thrown all manner of things including ice, beer, chairs, etc, and shouldn't have rushed to the exits to continue to do so.

The fans need to be addressed. I don't care if it was isolated...wasn't Artest going into the stands isolated as well? Be fair. You are being biased in your judgement. Just as Wallace overreacted, as Artest overreacted, so too did the fans. Take some games away from the home team and that should balance this out for all involved.

What you don't seem to understand is that security was never given the opportunity to handle the situation. As soon as he was hit by the cup he exploded into the stands. Up to that point nothing was thrown onto the court or poured onto players and security was in place along the baselines to prevent fans on the court. When Artest went into the stands, the security in the baselines went to help try and restore order. At that point, 4 or 5 fans got onto the court by the Pacer's bench and two were promptly fucked up by Anthony Johnson, Artest, and O'Neal. The others were helped off by security.

I am not viewing this from a Detroit fan perspective, I viewing this from a witness to the entire incident perspective. The crowd was upset for Artest fouling Ben Wallace. One asshole decided to launch his cup (its not as uncommon as you make it out to be and the authorities would have handled the situation as they always do). The crowd got frenzied after Artest went into the stands and that was the escalation point. The fans aren't blameless and the authorities will handle those fans appropriately. You can not take home games away from a team cause its not fair not only to the Piston's but also to other teams because some teams could possibly end up with more home games than other teams.

Lets say they take the next 15 home games from Detroit, Maimi and I believe Toronto are sceduled to play them twice in that period at Detroit and would end up with 43 home games whereas Indiana, Philly, and some other teams would not fall into this category of getting extra home games. If either of those teams finished 1 game behind Toronto for the 8th playoff spot, their would be hell to pay for having the unfair advantage of more home games.

You might as well make Detroit forfeit its franchise. After all Michigan is the most uncivilized state in the union. It has been proven time after time.

Posted: **November 22, 2004, 5:32 pm**

That's also why you'll never see plexi-glass at games. The reson they get $1,500 a night for sideline seats is because they are right on top of the players. You make that separation, and the place loses cash. it's also why they would have a bitch of a time banning beer sales. It's a fucking cash cow.
Not only that, what to say I can't get tanked up for a Knicks game by walking across any of four streets into 12 different bars or underneath the stadium where there are 6 different bars. Get tanked, ride an escalator, get patted down, spit on players. Now I know not everyone has the ease of acess as NY fans do to this, it's still not going to get implemented.

I really really like the home game penalty idea. Maybe fuck up scheduling a bit though.

Posted: **November 22, 2004, 5:38 pm**

xZiBiT wrote:You might as well make Detroit forfeit its franchise. After all Michigan is the most uncivilized state in the union. It has been proven time after time.

Not any more, now they're ranked 2nd in that department, well Detroit anyway

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6554290/

Posted: **November 22, 2004, 5:59 pm**

If logistics is a concern with taking away 10-15 home games, then you could play them at the arena and not let anyone inside except the players, security, coaches and maybe journalists.

Posted: **November 22, 2004, 6:52 pm**

I find it difficult to fault security. At least not the people working security. And, even though they were clearly not prepared for an incident of this scale, who could have anticipated it? Clearly adjustments need to be made, but that's not an indicator of fault.

I think the fans, Wallace, and Artest all carry some responsibility, however, I think Artest carries the bulk of it.

Clearly the fan that threw a drink at Artest was out of line, and Wallace definitely overreacted to Artest's dirty foul, but Artest is the catalyst.

First, Artest never should have commited that foul. That was a type 1 Flagrant foul (which counts as both a personal and technical foul). He, more or less, attacked Wallace from behind without making any attempt at the ball. Even if the game weren't essentially over, the foul was dirty and unacceptable, the fact that the game was over only compounds this. Second, being hit in the chest with a drink is not an excuse to go charging into the stands and arbitrarily attack fans. Third, Artest has shown, many times, that he will react to fan instigation. Had that been another player, the drink wouldn't have been thrown because no reaction would be expected. Bottom line, Artest made his own bed, and so did Indiana by tolerating his antics, and now they both have to lie in it. I'm only disappointed that they didn't remove him from the league permanently. He will still be a ticking time-bomb next season.

edit: anyone else worried about the Indiana fans' reaction the next time Detroit is in town? heh

VeeshanVault

Detroit Indiana Brawl