Jon Stewart distributes a Smackdown on Crossfire (CNN)

Aaeamdar · Post by **Aaeamdar** » October 19, 2004, 9:34 pm

One of the things Stewart says early on is he would love a debate show (and that Crossfire is nothing more than political hackery). That is essentially dead on. The Capital Gang, bth, is only slightly better. Though it is a lot better when not close to an election. TCG in election time is still political hackery - just ina more pleasant form. The conservatives agree with Bush 100%. The liberals agree with Kerry 100%. In that environment - where there is no honest discourse - the show is pointless. This is TCG right now. After Nov. it will return (except for Novak) to the more honest show that it normally is.

What was the highlight of all debate shows was "Firing line" about 15-20 years ago. Michael Kinsley and Bill Buckly were the hosts. The issues discussed in the 60 minute format were, like on NPR, discussed in depth - not in 3-5 minute non-substantive spurts. Both hosts and almost all of their guests were intellegent, reflective and lerned in the week's topics. The discussions were nuanced, not reduced to black and white soundbites. I really miss the show and wish someone (and CNN is the best candidate) would invest the time and money to make such a program again. Even if it was not a ratings king, such a program would be a real service to the American political process.

Pherr the Dorf · Post by **Pherr the Dorf** » October 20, 2004, 12:34 pm

http://go.fark.com/cgi/fark/go.pl?IDLin ... %3D2653047

The followup

Sionistic · Post by **Sionistic** » October 20, 2004, 10:54 pm

"monday i will be going back to being funny, and your show will still blow"
john stewart is godsend

Toshira · Post by **Toshira** » October 21, 2004, 12:45 am

From The New York Times:

No Jokes or Spin. It's Time (Gasp) to Talk.
By ALESSANDRA STANLEY

Published: October 20, 2004

There is nothing more painful than watching a comedian turn self-righteous. Unless of course, the comedian is lashing out at smug and self-serving television-news personalities. Jon Stewart could not resist a last dig at CNN's "Crossfire" during his monologue on Comedy Central on Monday night . "They said I wasn't being funny," the star of "The Daily Show With Jon Stewart" said, rolling his eyes expressively. "And I said to them: 'I know that. But tomorrow I will go back to being funny," Mr. Stewart said, adding that their show would still be bad, although he used a more vulgar expression.

And that is why his surprise attack on the hosts of CNN's "Crossfire" was so satisfying last Friday. Exchanging his usual goofy teasing for withering contempt, he told Paul Begala and Tucker Carlson that they were partisan hacks and that their pro-wrestling approach to political discourse was "hurting America." (He also used an epithet for the male reproductive organ to describe Mr. Carlson.)

Real anger is as rare on television as real discussion. Presidential candidates no longer address each other directly in debates. Guests on the "Tonight" show or "Oprah" are scripted monologuists who pitch their latest projects and humor the host. It has been decades since talk-show guests conversed with one another, yet there was a time when famous people held long and at times legendarily hostile discussions (Gore Vidal and William F. Buckley Jr. on ABC in 1968, Mary McCarthy and Lillian Hellman on "The Dick Cavett Show" in 1980).

Nowadays, live television meltdowns seem to be pathological, not political - Janet Jackson baring a breast during the Super Bowl or Farrah Fawcett babbling incoherently to David Letterman.

The fuming partisan rants on Fox News or "Real Time With Bill Maher" are aimed at the converted. And celebrities, like politicians, stay on message and stick to talking points, which may help explain the popularity of "Celebrity Poker" - it gives viewers a rare, unfiltered glimpse of stars' real personalities as they handle a bad hand or a humiliating bluff.

Mr. Stewart's frankness was a cool, startling, rational version of Senator Zell Miller's loony excoriation ("Get out of my face") to Chris Matthews of MSNBC during the Republican convention.

The transcript of Friday's "Crossfire," and the blog commentary about it, popped up all over the Internet this weekend. Mr. Stewart's Howard Beal (of "Network") outburst stood out because he said what a lot of viewers feel helpless to correct: that news programs, particularly on cable, have become echo chambers for political attacks, amplifying the noise instead of parsing the misinformation. Whether the issue is Swift boat ads or Bill O'Reilly's sexual harassment suit, shows like "Crossfire" or "Hardball" provide gladiator-style infotainment as journalists clownishly seek to amuse or rile viewers, not inform them.

When Mr. Carlson took the offense, charging that Mr. Stewart had no right to complain since he had asked Senator John Kerry softball questions on "The Daily Show," Mr. Stewart looked genuinely appalled. "I didn't realize - and maybe this explains quite a bit - that the news organizations look to Comedy Central for their cues on integrity." When Mr. Carlson continued to argue, Mr. Stewart shut him down hard. "You are on CNN," he said. "The show that leads into me is puppets making crank phone calls."

All late-night talk-show hosts make jokes about politicians. What distinguishes Mr. Stewart from Jay Leno and David Letterman is that the Comedy Central star mocks the entire political process, boring in tightly on the lockstep thinking and complacency of the parties and the media as well as the candidates. More than other television analysts and commentators, he and his writers put a spotlight on the inanities and bland hypocrisies that go mostly unnoticed in the average news cycle.

Mr. Stewart is very funny, but it is the vein of "a plague on both your houses" indignation that has made his show a cult favorite: many younger voters are turning to the "The Daily Show" for their news analysis, and are better served there than on much of what purports to be real news on cable.

And of course it was fun just to see television pundits who think they are part of the same media version of the Algonquin Round Table as Mr. Stewart lose their cool when he tore off the tablecloth and shattered the plates. "Wait,'' Mr. Carlson said querulously. "I thought you were going to be funny. Come on. Be funny." Mr. Stewart was funny. And it was at their expense.

Markulas · Post by **Markulas** » October 21, 2004, 2:28 am

I wish I watched tv for his show alone.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » October 21, 2004, 5:56 am

Real anger is as rare on television as real discussion. Presidential candidates no longer address each other directly in debates. Guests on the "Tonight" show or "Oprah" are scripted monologuists who pitch their latest projects and humor the host. It has been decades since talk-show guests conversed with one another, yet there was a time when famous people held long and at times legendarily hostile discussions (Gore Vidal and William F. Buckley Jr. on ABC in 1968, Mary McCarthy and Lillian Hellman on "The Dick Cavett Show" in 1980).

Very insightful... television has become so partisan that no one is ever taken to task on "real news" shows. O'Reilly was whining that Kerry wouldn't come on his show, which was a bit like a KKK Grand Dragon complaining a black wouldn't come to his cross burning.

Everyone knows what channel to watch to see their own ingrained politics regurgitated back at them, and the rest of us watch The Daily Show.. which sadly has more international news than the majors as well as being a lot closer to the centre despite Stewarts apparent leftist tendancies.

Big Money, Big Press, Big Government.. the evil trio have us by the goolies =(

masteen · Post by **masteen** » October 21, 2004, 1:09 pm

I think that as long as Kerry went ready to actually talk, and not just regurgitate talking points, he'd be well served going on the Factor. It could give a lot of conservatives their first glimpse at John Kerry the man, not just the non-Bush-Botox-injected-political-thing of the campaign.

Akaran_D · Post by **Akaran_D** » October 21, 2004, 1:10 pm

And in related news,

WalMart won't carry Stewart's Book.

miir · Post by **miir** » October 21, 2004, 1:34 pm

Not surprised about that at all.

Walmart is pretty tight-assed when it comes to nudity.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » October 21, 2004, 7:01 pm

masteen wrote:I think that as long as Kerry went ready to actually talk, and not just regurgitate talking points, he'd be well served going on the Factor. It could give a lot of conservatives their first glimpse at John Kerry the man, not just the non-Bush-Botox-injected-political-thing of the campaign.

What makes you think O'Reilly wouldn't cut him off when he said anything he didn't like, as he does with every other guest on his show? Besides, I doubt the Factor's format would address "Kerry the man" rather than his politics, at which point of course it devolves into well rehearsed talking points, otherwise you might end up waffling, or talking off the cuff like Bush and saying you're constantly looking for ways to hurt the US :>

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » October 21, 2004, 7:19 pm

Makes sense that WalMart will not carry a book which requires the ability to think, only morons shop there.

Toshira · Post by **Toshira** » October 22, 2004, 3:18 am

Hey, Wal-Mart sells good light bulbs, fucker.

And actually, their prescription drug prices are very cheap - cheaper than a trip to Canada, eh!

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » October 22, 2004, 8:48 am

Toshy, if your activist self does not realize the danger Walmart represents, then we are really fucked.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » October 22, 2004, 8:55 am

Their bullets are cheap.....

Hooray?

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » October 22, 2004, 9:12 am

Next on Stewart's speaking tour.. 60 Minutes =) http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/10/ ... 0690.shtml

Toshira · Post by **Toshira** » October 22, 2004, 10:53 am

I do man, believe me...any store or chain that can actually influence what an artist can create because their refusal to put it on their shelves means a severe cut in sales, that's fucked up