Documents Reveal Gaps in Bush's Service as President.

[Markulas]

90% of all statistics are made up.

And 83% of us hate when ppl bullshit and ignore issues.

[Winnow]

Clarke asks about why the president didn't want the verification. Gore laughs, and Clinton says "well when it appeared to me that you guys couldnt answer the question, i just called CNN"

I went to CNN looking for news today and this was on the front page:

BEAR RANSACKS KITCHEN, STEALS CHOCOLATE

DENVER, Colorado (Reuters) -- It's a tale of man against nature. A paralyzed man in Aspen, Colorado lay helplessly in bed for two hours while a black bear known as "Fat Albert" went through his kitchen breaking dishes and looking for a tasty snack.

"I had four pounds (2kg) of chocolate from a ski trip. He ate it all -- it's war," Tom Isaac said, recounting with a sense of humor how the 500-pound (230-kg) bear made himself at home at his house on September 20.

At least it's not the usual political stuff!

[Zaelath]

Bush had, hands-down, more support behind him after 9/11 from all over the world than just about any president has ever had. Now he has less support from the rest of the world than any president in recent memory.

Perception.

Which part of that is perception?

How do you view the post-9/11 feelings of the rest of the world toward the United States and how do you view their current feelings?

I wouldn't say the support was for Bush.. for the US yes, Bush not so much. When I saw the second plane hit my first thought was, "f**k.. this is the start of WWIII".

I can't say I supported Afghanistan completely because it was far too rushed. If your intelligence was so clueless to an operation that took years to co-ordinate and train for, how could they be so certain where to strike back in a matter of days? That said, I didn't resent the US for Afghanistan, I didn't resent Australian troops being used, (I did resent that no one in the US even seemed to know they were there..) but the same can't be said for the sham in Iraq or your president's agressive stance to "everyone not behind him"

He's not out there building democracies in the middle east, they will fail because the people aren't ready for them, he's out there building resentment against the western world.

Hell... I get irritated when the mormons knock on my door trying to push their way of life down my throat with a smile and a calm voice, how do you think people react to someone doing the same thing with guns and bombs?

Do you *honestly* think that all those people professing to love the US and thanking them for removing Sadam while soldiers stand around the camera holding automatic weapons are being completely honest. Are you that naive?

[noel]

Very simply, sex, and who the leader of the country is getting head from is only a big deal in the US and perhaps the UK.

Kennedy was fucking the shit out of Marilyn Monroe, and he's considered one of the greatest presidents in American history.

The only bad part about what happened during Clinton's term of office was the millions of dollars and time wasted on a politically motivated witch hunt.

Akaran,

Unless you can *in-detail* explain to me the intricacies and agreements the Clinton's have between each other, you're doing nothing more than attempting to place your own morality on someone else. Kind of like... the Taliban (just as one example). I say this not to insult you, but to hopefully make you think. I didn't like Clinton as a person, but he was a MUCH better President than G.W. has been.

Having said that, I want to clarify that I thought the way G.W. handled things during and just after 9/11 was fine for my taste. What's gone on since then has set US international relations back at LEAST 15-20 years.

[Akaran_D]

I'm not forcing my morals on him, just as you don't force your morals on, say, Atokal. You generate your opinion of him based on how his actions compare with what you think is appropiate - if you do so, why am I not? What seperates Clinton from Atokal?

With Bush, I can tell my kids (should I ever have any) that he stood up for his morals, that he fought for what he beleived was right, and that he let himself be guided by his own morality.

For Clinton.. I can attempt to explain what the deffinition of 'is' is, and that he broke his code of moral ethics (he was Catholic, wasn't he? He broke the adultry code of eithcs and morals therin) and only apologized when he was under so much political pressure to do so, and that he lied under oath to a court of law. Very good role model there. I will explain what things that he did were good and highlight them, as much as I will do the same about the things Bush has done wrong.

[Aaeamdar]

There were two significant issues with Clinton's Monicagate - and frankly issues that most Dems take far too lightly.

1. Moinca was not just *some chick* - she worked for Clinton. There were power issues involved that make his conduct inappropriate even if (as all acounts suggest) she wanted it. The passing off of what he did as "the private consentual acts of two adults" ignores this.

2. He testified under oath that he did not do things that, in fact, he did.

Both of those are serious and should have had consequences (they did - he was impeached; he was disbarred). Everything else is just moralizing.

Now, while those two things were bad, they are nothing - not even close - or as Jules would say "not even the same fucking game" - compared to what Bush has done vis-avis Iraq.

[Kelshara]

With Bush, I can tell my kids (should I ever have any) that he stood up for his morals, that he fought for what he beleived was right, and that he let himself be guided by his own morality.

You seriously believe that? Here is my take:

With Bush, I can tell my kids (should I ever have any) that he stood up for his daddy, that he fought for his rich friends' needs, and that he let himself be guided by his own bank account.

[Xzion-]

Very simply, sex, and who the leader of the country is getting head from is only a big deal in the US and perhaps the UK.

Kennedy was fucking the shit out of Marilyn Monroe, and he's considered one of the greatest presidents in American history.

The only bad part about what happened during Clinton's term of office was the millions of dollars and time wasted on a politically motivated witch hunt.

Akaran,

Unless you can *in-detail* explain to me the intricacies and agreements the Clinton's have between each other, you're doing nothing more than attempting to place your own morality on someone else. Kind of like... the Taliban (just as one example). I say this not to insult you, but to hopefully make you think. I didn't like Clinton as a person, but he was a MUCH better President than G.W. has been.

Having said that, I want to clarify that I thought the way G.W. handled things during and just after 9/11 was fine for my taste. What's gone on since then has set US international relations back at LEAST 15-20 years.

What "great accomplishments" does Kennedy have under his belt?
His bad way outweighs any good the way I see it.

[Marbus]

What I tell and will tell my sons is that Bill Clinton is a man just like everyone else. No matter how much good you do, or how much respect you have from others, don't let it go to your head... everyone, no matter how high can make a mistake a bad one, one that could cost them their marriage, family and livelyhood. I'll also note the number of big time ministers who have done similar things and were quickly "forgiven" and I'll point out how it shouldn't have been any of our business anyway... I'll sum up in saying how fickle and judgement the American public often is... and warn them to consider the possible consequences, as my Grandfather did to me, before entering public politics...

In regards to GWBush... well I probably won't bring him up, if you can't say something good about someone better to not say anything at all right?

[Nick]

OMG MARBUS YUO LIBERAL PUSSY I BET YUOR GAY AS WELL HAAHAHAHHA!111



Much for teh marb in reality^^

[Arundel Pajo]

w00t, marb! Testify!

[Marbus]

Heh, thanks guys