Tour de France '04

noel · Post by **noel** » July 8, 2004, 1:38 pm

Kelshara wrote:wow never seen this many accidents ever that I can recall. US Postal has an advantage in that regard since they are in the lead and can choose where to ride. Harder for people behind them.

Edit: Holy crap that young French champion guy is truly impressive. Talk about all heart!

Seemed like no one wanted to work today at all, so Postal was on the front just to kind of set the pace. Phil and Paul commented several times that they weren't going very hard.

The french guy was incredible. When they shot his face, he looked like he was cooked, and then he did like 4 amazing (though probably not good tactically) attacks followed by one of the most ballsy cornering-in-the-rain moves I've seen in quite a while.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » July 8, 2004, 2:10 pm

Well they also said what was true (yeah I managed to dig up OLN heh): The team that has the yellow jersey is supposed to set the speed. They just didn't feel a need to set a fast speed heh.

And well.. no it wasn't tactically smart if you aim for a stage win. But I think he was more interested in keeping the speed up at a decent pace so he can keep the yellow jersey longer. And he still managed a decent sprint as well even though none of them really had a chance against O'Grady.

And yeah.. that cornering (especially when you saw the rest go dancing all over the place) was ballsy as hell.

noel · Post by **noel** » July 8, 2004, 2:23 pm

I fucking hate riding in the rain. It's cool for the first 5 minutes or so, and yes I live in California where it's not so bad, but it does rain here, and it does get windy here, and I did ride all winter, and it was freezing fucking cold, and the road is slippery as hell. I was training in the rain and it was dangerous. I can't imagine racing in the rain and wind. Fuck that in the ass.

noel · Post by **noel** » July 9, 2004, 1:32 pm

I am so, so happy to see Stuey in green! McEwen looked like he'd gone through a meat grinder after that crash in the final kilometer, and though I don't like him I hate to see that. That crash was brutal. Lance got in safely with George Hincapie right alongside him. George is by far my favorite domestique.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » July 9, 2004, 2:15 pm

Hushovd went down in that crash as well

Makes me wonder now if Credit Agricole regrets letting O'Grady go and putting their money on Hushovd heh.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » July 11, 2004, 1:04 pm

Woot finally! Hushovd said he was perfectly positioned when he went down in the McEwen crash the other day and now he proved he could have won that day as well! Good setup by CA as well, but damn he is insane in sprints like the one today.

noel · Post by **noel** » July 12, 2004, 12:25 pm

That was some awesome riding by Hushovd. He blew by the guy he beat.

What a mess of a sprint through. I laughed my ass off when McEwen followed Bettini and then ended up out on the front doing nothing. Best part was Phil and Paul making fun of him.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » July 15, 2004, 12:01 pm

Couple of things that I've noticed so far:

- Zabel rides great. He is impressing me a LOT and is right now my favourite to win the Green Jersey. Interesting to see that McEwen now tries to ride on Hushovd's wheel.

- Voeckler is impressing me as well, he wont last but he is riding well and is good for the Tour and the sport.

- Armstrong is extremely attentive, but the way he sat infront of the sprint today and yesterday seems to tell me he expects it to be tougher to win this year than last.

- Ullrich.. who knows? Haven't seen ANYTHING from him and will be very interesting to see what kind of shape both he and Hamilton are in.

- Hat off to Hushovd who is riding with a near bronchitis like cough and is on antibiotica yet manages to win the sprint. Incredible what determination can do for a cyclists.

- Virenque does it again.. very tainted past, but he HAS paid for it and moved on. Mighty impressive imho.

- I still really wish Vinokourov was in it.. would have mixed things up in an interesting way!

noel · Post by **noel** » July 16, 2004, 2:06 pm

Well I have to say that today was a total surprise to me. I pretty much expected that Voelker was going to lose time, given the way he was yo-yoing off the back during stage 11. I pretty much figured today would be another day of the favorites marking each other to the finish, and all finishing in a lead pack. I am absolutely shocked to see riders of quality; Heras, Mayo, Hamilton, Leipheimer, Ullrich all put into serious difficulty this early in the mountains. I never expected that.

Major props to Basso for hanging with Lance. I've though all winter that his move to CSC to work with Riis was the best 'trade' of the summer.

As far as your last post Kelshara, I agree with everything you said. Voelker isn't giving a thing away. I've always liked Virenque, so much so that when I used to wear my Festina teamsuit, some of my friends would ask me if I had EPO in my water bottles. He's also the reason I have a Domo suit. I think Virenque could easily get a podium spot the way some of the other favorites are riding. As far as Hushovd, I'm so glad to see him doing well in this Tour. He really impressed me on that early stage in either the '03 or '02 tour where his legs were cramping up something fierce and he finished anyway. That's the way I'll remember him, and I wish him lots of success.

Phil and Paul were talking this morning about team leadership in T-Mobile going over to Klöden. Is there any doubt that Vinokourov would have just embarassed Ullrich with how much better shape he was in? Truly a loss to not have him at the Tour. Where other people talk about being a protagonist, Vino lets his legs do the talking.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » July 16, 2004, 2:37 pm

Well personally I think it is over already. Only an accident can take away the victory from Lance now. Ullrich is done. Hamilton is done. Basso, although damn impressive today, wont be able to last all the way in at Lance's tempo. Unless something extreme was wrong with Ullrich today, Lance can pop the champagne tonight.

I cry for the loss of Vino. It is so much more fun to watch with people who can compete and who are not affraid of going for it.

noel · Post by **noel** » July 16, 2004, 2:41 pm

Just saw these comments on Velonews. I was wondering why Lance didn't seem to try to pull through on Ivan. Here's the answer:

from velonews...

"As for Armstrong, who won here in 2002, the 32-year-old American said he had allowed Basso to win the stage because he is trying to help the Italian's mother in her fight against cancer.

"He's a hell of a good guy," Armstrong said. "We've been friends for a long time, and off the bike we're trying to work a little bit on his mom's situation, to try and see if she can win the fight against cancer.

"It's pretty special for me to have been out there with him, and the past week we haven't spoken about the race, we've spoken about his mom. It was a pleasure for me to let him (Basso) win, and he deserved to win. He was super strong." "

Gildan · Post by **Gildan** » July 16, 2004, 3:30 pm

I'm sure it wasn't meant that way, but that sounded a bit arrogant on Lance's part.. I let him/allowed him to win...

noel · Post by **noel** » July 16, 2004, 3:58 pm

I think Lance's actual comment was that he didn't contest the finish, not that he 'let' Basso win. Media spin and whatnot.

Truant · Post by **Truant** » July 16, 2004, 10:06 pm

Stage 12 was a nailbiter! I'm worried about Hamilton though...any news as to what happened? I find it hard to believe that he wasn't in top form after last years performances.

Tenuvil · Post by **Tenuvil** » July 17, 2004, 12:42 am

Stage 13 on Saturday will decide the race. Lance will dominate!

noel · Post by **noel** » July 17, 2004, 1:30 pm

I'm just beside myself. I never would have predicted anything seen today.

I'm just in shock over:

[Show]: Hamilton's abandon. Heras being dropped like a rock. Iban Mayo trying to abandon and being persuaded by his teammates and other riders to keep going. Voelker staying in yellow.

I was screaming for Voelker to push harder, and make it one more day. I was so glad to see him keep the maillot juane. Who ever thought He'd still have the jersey after yesterday. On a more difficult stage, he lost less time than yesterday. Amazing.

I feel so bad for Ullrich. I hope he kicks Kloden's ass in the TTs.

Truant · Post by **Truant** » July 17, 2004, 9:47 pm

Yeah, i was very sad about Hamilton. And Heras and Mayo don't seem far behind. Very, very surprising tour so far.

Siji · Post by **Siji** » July 18, 2004, 1:30 pm

One comment on watching stage 13 last night..

Someone needs to drive ahead of the riders with an uzi. The fans are fooking idiots in that country. People patting on Lance and other riders, people squirting water at them, blocking the road to about a quarter second ahead of the riders.. What's to stop a fan from patting a little too hard and knocking a rider over? Oops, sorry Lance, no win for you. I got a little exciting there when grabbing your ass..

Idiots. Purely.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » July 19, 2004, 11:19 am

Water squirting is a good thing. It cools you down in high temperatures. Part of the charm of the Tour is the insane fans turnout, and you would loose a LOT if you removed that aspect of the Tour. They are kept away on time trial stages were every second is important.

Siji · Post by **Siji** » July 19, 2004, 2:07 pm

Kelshara wrote:They are kept away on time trial stages were every second is important.

I'd have to disagree that being pushed off your bike and facing potential race losing injuries or delays isn't important. Fans shouldn't be able to touch the riders as they're trying to race by.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » July 19, 2004, 2:13 pm

Kelshara wrote:Water squirting is a good thing. It cools you down in high temperatures.

It's all fun and games until boiling hot piss is squirted on a biker.

Truant · Post by **Truant** » July 19, 2004, 11:07 pm

Siji wrote:
Kelshara wrote:They are kept away on time trial stages were every second is important.
I'd have to disagree that being pushed off your bike and facing potential race losing injuries or delays isn't important. Fans shouldn't be able to touch the riders as they're trying to race by.

And we had a situation like last year, were someone's bag caught lance's handlebar as he rode by and caused him and another to crash. Even yesterday as fans are running along side patting them on the back, the commentators mentioning that the riders could possibly be disqualified for being pushed. Also yesterday people were trying to sprint in front of the leaders, and a couple nearly ran into other people which would have caused a crash.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » July 20, 2004, 10:22 am

Of course, the purse incident last year was a lady who was standing outside of the road itself. From what I recall Lance didn't really blame her for that one.

TdF will never be completely fenced off. Simply wont happen.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » July 20, 2004, 10:23 am

I wonder why EA has not released Tour de France 2004?

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » July 20, 2004, 11:45 am

Ullrich sucks tactically.. he can't keep up with Lance in a sprint yet he doesn't move early in the last hill. Should have gone with 1-2 KMs left. Bad bad move.

noel · Post by **noel** » July 20, 2004, 12:30 pm

It's a much, MUCH better tactic to attack solo with 3 climbs to go...

Grats Lance on #61

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » July 20, 2004, 12:33 pm

Cartalas wrote:I wonder why EA has not released Tour de France 2004?

because legions of ignorant talk radio listeners would instantly boycott EA because they released a product with the word "France" in it.

Incidentally, and comedically, since Bill O'Reilly launched his shows' boycott of French products, French imports are up to the US.

LOL what a tool

Animale · Post by **Animale** » July 20, 2004, 6:28 pm

Was quite a finish... Lance made his move and only Basso could respond at all, and Lance timed it so whatever response would be too late. It was funny seeing all those super racers at the end of that nasty, fast climb, pull out of their saddles and look like sprinters for a bit, hehe.

Animale

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » July 20, 2004, 7:23 pm

Voronwë wrote:
Cartalas wrote:I wonder why EA has not released Tour de France 2004?
because legions of ignorant talk radio listeners would instantly boycott EA because they released a product with the word "France" in it.

Incidentally, and comedically, since Bill O'Reilly launched his shows' boycott of French products, French imports are up to the US.

LOL what a tool

Voro! It's all about name alterations these days.

"Tour de Lance 2004"

Siji · Post by **Siji** » July 20, 2004, 8:27 pm

Cartalas wrote:I wonder why EA has not released Tour de France 2004?

Ok, I tried to think of some way that this might work and can't think of any..

What are your ideas on how a cycling game would work? All I'm able to think of is mashing the buttons on the controller for an hour as fast as you can to make the cycler pedal faster..

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » July 20, 2004, 9:06 pm

It's a much, MUCH better tactic to attack solo with 3 climbs to go...

Well I think he tried to split Lance from his teammates there.. and I almost wish Lance had gone with him (or Basso.. now THAT would have been interesting). I can see why he did that attempt, although it did not work.

However, to try and outsprint Lance over the last couple of meters.. erh, not for Ulrich.

noel · Post by **noel** » July 20, 2004, 9:11 pm

Kelshara wrote:
It's a much, MUCH better tactic to attack solo with 3 climbs to go...
Well I think he tried to split Lance from his teammates there.. and I almost wish Lance had gone with him (or Basso.. now THAT would have been interesting). I can see why he did that attempt, although it did not work.

However, to try and outsprint Lance over the last couple of meters.. erh, not for Ulrich.

I agree that's what he was trying to do. But... and this is a pretty big but... Ullrich tried that last year on the Col de Tourmalet, and paid for it on Luz Ardiden. The only time Ullrich has ever had a good mountain stage against Lance was the day Lance forgot to eat and bonked.

It's a good point though. At least Ullrich tried something. I gained a lot of respect for Beloki last year when he was constantly attacking Lance.

Tegellan · Post by **Tegellan** » July 21, 2004, 12:44 pm

Watching the time trials now, insane ride by Armstrong there. I am madly impressed with his form, although Basso let me down a little bit there, disappointing time trial for him.

On a different note, the spectators were insane, they really need to do some fencing, today it could have easily resulted in an accident.

Truant · Post by **Truant** » July 21, 2004, 12:53 pm

Agree completely about the fans. The runner with the german flag looked dangerous for Ullrich, and I saw someone throw a waterbottle across the road in front of Lance. There is no telling what else happened.

Lance impressed the shit out of me again. Finished first, 61 seconds over Ullrich.

noel · Post by **noel** » July 21, 2004, 12:55 pm

Armstrong was incredible today. I had a bet with Zamtuk that Lance would beat Basso by no less than 45 seconds. I was fairly certain I'd win when I saw Lance pass him on the climb.

As far as Basso doing a bad ride... You've got to be kidding me. He did a spectacular ride. Lets not forget that Basso is not regarded as a superb time trialer. Let us also not forget that though Basso can ride with Lance to the finish, he has yet to be able to attack Lance and put him in difficulty. So while he's obviously a superb climber, he still has some room for improvement. Considering Basso lost 6 minutes to Ullrich and 5 minutes to Lance in last years middle time trial (not climbing TT), I think he's continued to build on his extreme talent, and if he keeps Drolgi-- err Bjarne Riis as his team director, I see him winning the Tour in the near future.

Make no mistake, Basso had a spectacular ride. Don't assume that because someone is in first (Voelker), or second (Basso), that that's where they'll end up in Paris. Basso held on to second in front of Kloden, and I think for the 2004 Tour, he'll be extremely happy with that.

Edit: And huge props should go out to Ullrich. THAT was such a spectacular ride it's not even funny. If there were no Lance Armstrong, Ullrich's ride would be just awe-inspiring.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » July 21, 2004, 1:49 pm

Basso's ride was way better than expected. Ullrich is a beast, the strenght of that guy is insane.. simply insane. I expected more from Heras though, although not the best time trial rider, this one should have been good for him. Great ride as expected from Lance.

On a side note: Interesting Outside the Lines story about Lance and doping on ESPN.

noel · Post by **noel** » July 21, 2004, 2:33 pm

For those interested:

Today is the 24th time that the climb to L’Alpe d’Huez has been a part of the Tour de France’s itinerary. This is the first time that the stage to this ‘Hors Category’ has been a time trial. The five fastest times posted before the 16th stage of the 2004 are:
Marco Pantani (Italy) 37’35” – in 1997 (at the end of a 203.5km stage from Saint-Etienne)
Marco Pantani (Italy) 38’00” – in 1994 (although he was not the winner, this was ‘Il Pirata’s’ time up the climb at the end of the 224.5km stage from Valreas. The winner of the stage that year was Marco’s good friend, Roberto Conti)
Lance Armstrong (US) 38’01” – in 2001 (at the end of a 209km stage from Aix-les-Bains)
Marco Pantani (Italy) 38’04” – in 1995 (at the end of a 162.5km stage from La Plagne)
Iban Mayo (Spain) 39’06” – in 2003 (at the end of a 219km stage from Sallanches)
(Note: This time is taken for the 13.9km climb. Today’s time trial is 15.5km long with a flat early phase in the village of Bourg-d’Oisans.)

Today was:

1 Lance Armstrong (USA) US Postal p/b Berry Floor -- 39.41 (23.44 km/h)

A tiny bit more:

Armstrong's time over the 13.8 km of climbing (excluding the 1.7 km of flat at the start) was 37'36, one second slower than Marco Pantani's official record of 37'35 set in 1997, and 46 seconds slower than Pantani's unofficial record of 36'50 in 1995.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » July 21, 2004, 2:52 pm

Siji wrote:
Cartalas wrote:I wonder why EA has not released Tour de France 2004?
Ok, I tried to think of some way that this might work and can't think of any..

What are your ideas on how a cycling game would work? All I'm able to think of is mashing the buttons on the controller for an hour as fast as you can to make the cycler pedal faster..

They could definitely do a game and sell it with a stationary set of pedals....or even a stand of some sort you can hook up to your own bike and track the speed. Who wouldn't love a game you could play and get in shape at the same time? (not counting the fat bastards who sit and play games all day inside when they could be out playing them IRL)

Homercles · Post by **Homercles** » July 21, 2004, 3:02 pm

Who wouldn't love a game you could play and get in shape at the same time?

Sounds like you would be a big fan of Dance Dance Revolution.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » July 21, 2004, 3:06 pm

this just in:

he's good

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » July 21, 2004, 4:31 pm

The Pantani record is insane though when you consider it as being the end of a long mountain stage.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » July 21, 2004, 6:17 pm

Homercles wrote:
Who wouldn't love a game you could play and get in shape at the same time?
Sounds like you would be a big fan of Dance Dance Revolution.

I took my neice to her college orientation last week, and UCF has a DDR machine in their student union. I saw this girl playing it with no bra on, and I'm not sure if it's a sport, but it sure is fun to watch.

Tegellan · Post by **Tegellan** » July 21, 2004, 6:18 pm

I know Basso had a good ride today, i am just still a little disappointed that he didn't have a better one, my expectations were too high i guess. Ullrich has been riding great after his initisal trouble in the mountains, think he is really getting in shape, if that guy could train properly and get in the right shape early enough in the tour, he would be a really serious contender.

I personally think he chose the wrong team, when he went back to T-Mobile instead of CSC.

noel · Post by **noel** » July 21, 2004, 6:23 pm

Tegellan wrote:I know Basso had a good ride today, i am just still a little disappointed that he didn't have a better one, my expectations were too high i guess. Ullrich has been riding great after his initisal trouble in the mountains, think he is really getting in shape, if that guy could train properly and get in the right shape early enough in the tour, he would be a really serious contender.

I personally think he chose the wrong team, when he went back to T-Mobile instead of CSC.

Could not agree more.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » July 21, 2004, 6:55 pm

Indeed. CSC impressed me last year and they are even more impressive this year. Mighty fine team they got.

noel · Post by **noel** » July 21, 2004, 7:14 pm

I would put Bjarne Riis (aka Drolgin) as the best Director Sportif in cycling with Johan Brunyeel as a close second. The main reason I give the nod to Riis is that he does more with less, and helps riders realize their full potential. Jan is a fool for not riding for Riis when he had the chance. I really hope to see Basso improve and possibly win next year.

Anyone wanna offer up predicictions for this year's top 3 in the G.C.?

At the beginning of the Tour I had Armstrong, Hamilton, Ullrich/Mayo

As of today I'm picking Armstrong, Kloden, Ullrich.

It's sad, but I don't think Basso can hang in the final TT. I think it's entirely possible Ullrich could finish second overall yet again. Consider that he rode up the Alpe today with an Aero wheel (heavy and aero instead of light for climbing) and in the Aero position most of the way. I've climbed quite a few hills/mountains in my day, but climbing them in that position is just unthinkable to me. Ullrich has stupid amounts of strength to be able to pull that off. I'm rooting for him to pass Kloden in the upcoming stages, but I don't see how he can make up 4 minutes on Kloden since both of them are good TTers.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » July 21, 2004, 7:51 pm

The sad thing about Riis and CSC is that Riis makes great riders.. then they seem to leave him. What a team he could have had..

As for this year:
Lance is a lock unless he gets in a bad accident.
I think Ullrich pulls off second, simply because he seems to be getting stronger and Kloden as been MIA for a while before this year and I am not sure I trust him to last under what I suspect will be eventfull days.
Kloden third, Basso will lose out on the TT.

Tenuvil · Post by **Tenuvil** » July 21, 2004, 10:15 pm

Not making any predictions (other than Lance winning) because the character of the final 3 stages is such that any number of riders could end up on the podium. I do not think Ullrich will be one of the top 3 however. I still feel Basso will end up in the top 3, and would like to see Thomas Voeckler up there as well.

And yes Kelshara I totally agree about CSC being an excellent team, but I have to give the DS nod to Bruyneel over Riis. If you had said even 5 yerars ago that the dominant team in pro cycling would have come from the USA nobody woul have believed you. Johan Bruyneel has done an amazing job with the Posties.

noel · Post by **noel** » July 21, 2004, 10:53 pm

Voelker is 16 minutes down on Lance, and there just aren't any stages left where he'll even have the opportunity to take time out of Basso, Kloden or Ullrich.

For Basso to get a spot on the final podium he'll either have to work some magic to pad his time advantage on tomorrows hellacious stage, or he'll have to do the time trial of his CAREER on Saturday.

Basso is spectacular, but unless something out of the ordinary happens, I don't see him in the top three at the finish. He's just not a good enough time trialist to make the podium. That said, I'm sure he'll improve in the coming years.

Siji · Post by **Siji** » July 22, 2004, 12:02 pm

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:They could definitely do a game and sell it with a stationary set of pedals....or even a stand of some sort you can hook up to your own bike and track the speed. Who wouldn't love a game you could play and get in shape at the same time? (not counting the fat bastards who sit and play games all day inside when they could be out playing them IRL)

I'd be interested in a video game I could hook up to my bike.. although, I'd guess that the audience would be fairly limited.. but I could be wrong.