NBA Discussion Thread*

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » April 17, 2008, 3:23 pm

Yeah... at least I've learned to keep my posts shortish...

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » April 17, 2008, 3:46 pm

I watch every fucking Suns game (that includes all the games vs the Spurs). Ginobili hasn't been anything special vs the Suns for years.

Of course he could "steal" a game. You can say that about any player on the Suns or Spurs as most of them have had big games at one point or another. Ginobili, who is in question, has not recently. Raja Bell has done well defending him the past few years.

It's not the key question to the series IMO.

There are several more important factors to consider.

Aardor · Post by **Aardor** » April 17, 2008, 4:02 pm

Winnow wrote:I watch every fucking Suns game (that includes all the games vs the Spurs). Ginobili hasn't been anything special vs the Suns for years.

Of course he could "steal" a game. You can say that about any player on the Suns or Spurs as most of them have had big games at one point or another. Ginobili, who is in question, has not recently. Raja Bell has done well defending him the past few years.

It's not the key question to the series IMO.

There are several more important factors to consider.

How did Ginobili do against the suns in the regular season last year? During the playoffs, he had a few mediocre games (8-12 points, 5-8 rebounds), but when the Suns started making a comeback later in the series, he absolutely destroyed them.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » April 17, 2008, 4:07 pm

Priority one: Contain Duncan
Priority Two: Contain Parker
Priority Three: Everything else

Opposing star players have career games vs the Suns many times. That's not surprising. Check the Suns' best record years over the past four years and you'll see lots of career games for opposing players coupled with Suns wins.

Aardor · Post by **Aardor** » April 17, 2008, 4:11 pm

Winnow wrote:Priority one: Contain Duncan
Priority Two: Contain Parker
Priority Three: Everything else

Opposing star players have career games vs the Suns many times. That's not surprising. Check the Suns' best record years over the past four years and you'll see lots of career games for opposing players coupled with Suns wins.

I see Sun losses in the cases i was talking about.

Who's excited for Soulja Boy vs Jay Z?

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » April 17, 2008, 4:15 pm

Just for the hell of it, pick your key player for game one Suns @ Spurs on Saturday.

I'll say Grant Hill will be the key if the Suns win. Parker will be the key for the Spurs if they win.

Aardor · Post by **Aardor** » April 17, 2008, 4:28 pm

Winnow wrote:Just for the hell of it, pick your key player for game one Suns @ Spurs on Saturday.

I'll say Grant Hill will be the key if the Suns win. Parker will be the key for the Spurs if they win.

DJ Strawberry

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » April 17, 2008, 4:33 pm

Aardor wrote:
Winnow wrote:Just for the hell of it, pick your key player for game one Suns @ Spurs on Saturday.

I'll say Grant Hill will be the key if the Suns win. Parker will be the key for the Spurs if they win.
DJ Strawberry

I pick the key player in a Suns victory to be the refs. I pick the key player in a Spurs victory to be the Suns, since they are so good at beating themselves.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » April 17, 2008, 4:36 pm

Winnow, you're the most sensitive basketball fan I've ever met.

I think my three questions are important because I think the Suns will win the series unless Duncan and Ginobili both step up big time, provided the Suns don't play like the old men they are but rarely play like. That's it.

We can see if they were valid questions or not at the end of the series. If the Spurs win despite getting substandard contributions from Ginobili and Duncan, then I was wrong. If the Suns win despite the Spurs getting monster contributions from Ginobili and Duncan, then I was wrong. Arguing the hell out of it at this point is stupid. Why don't you try proposing your own keys to the series, preferably ones which don't involve retarded referee conspiracy theories (as if there's anybody out there pulling strings who would rather see the Spurs beat the Suns than vice versa...)

I know that you watch buttloads of Suns games. I also know that you watch very few games that don't involve the Suns. You'll notice that I'm talking about Manu Ginobili, who plays for the Spurs, not the Suns. The fact that you think containing Parker is more important than containing Ginobili makes me wonder if you watched any Spurs games at all this year (besides, obviously, the ones where they played the Suns. You watched those games. I get it.)

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » April 17, 2008, 4:36 pm

Aardor wrote: DJ Strawberry

Based on what? Whether his jokes are funny or not on the bench? If DJ is in the game on Saturday, it's a blowout one way or the other.

Nice risky pick though.

I like Grant Hill because if he plays well, Bowen can only be harassing one person at a time so he'd have to come off Nash. Hill is also another good passer, intelligent and can create his own shot. All things Marion wasn't last year vs the Spurs. (I give some credit to Greg Anthony for mentioning this today on the radio as well)

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » April 17, 2008, 4:41 pm

Sueven wrote:
I know that you watch buttloads of Suns games. I also know that you watch very few games that don't involve the Suns. You'll notice that I'm talking about Manu Ginobili, who plays for the Spurs, not the Suns. The fact that you think containing Parker is more important than containing Ginobili makes me wonder if you watched any Spurs games at all this year (besides, obviously, the ones where they played the Suns. You watched those games. I get it.)

Don't you think it's key that I watched the Suns/Spurs game since that's the series in question? What does it matter if Ginobili can score 100 on some other team?

Parker is key because Nash sucks at defense. That's unique to the Suns/Spurs gameplan. In other games, the opposing PG might be able to handle Parker so they could concentrate more on Ginobili. The Suns specifically have Raja Bell as their Ginobili stopper who Ginobili has said himself that he hates playing against.

So yes, I think Parker is the key person to stop. Duncan is now containable with Shaq/Amare. The Spurs used to be able to win with Duncan, Parker or some random person stepping up. Now they have to win with either Parker or a random person (with Bell on Ginobili)

Aardor · Post by **Aardor** » April 17, 2008, 4:43 pm

Winnow wrote:
Aardor wrote: DJ Strawberry
Based on what? Whether his jokes are funny or not on the bench? If DJ is in the game on Saturday, it's a blowout one way or the other.

Nice risky pick though.

I like Grant Hill because if he plays well, Bowen can only be harassing one person at a time so he'd have to come off Nash. Hill is also another good passer, intelligent and can create his own shot. All things Marion wasn't last year vs the Spurs. (I give some credit to Greg Anthony for mentioning this today on the radio as well)

I just have a hard-on for any Maryland player.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » April 17, 2008, 4:48 pm

Winnow wrote:Don't you think it's key that I watched the Suns/Spurs game since that's the series in question? What does it matter if Ginobili can score 100 on some other team?

They're both useful. Recall the concept of sample size?

The fact that Nash sucks at defense is precisely what makes that a fairly meaningless matchup. You win a series by winning strength v. strength matchups, not by winning the matchups where you have an advantage. Of course Parker will score on Nash. Of course Amare will get his points. We all know these things, that's why they're not keys. The keys are the matchups which could go either way-- the Suns big guys trying to neutralize Duncan, and Raja Bell / Grant Hill trying to neutralize Ginobili.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » April 17, 2008, 4:55 pm

I'm going with four total technicals fouls in the game. Three on Phoenix and one on San Antonio.

(Edited this post to make sense.)

noel · Post by **noel** » April 17, 2008, 11:35 pm

Not sure who said it, (I think it was Winnow) but I agree that Parker, not Duncan will be the key to the Spurs chances in this series.

I hope to see Bowen get more than one T in this series.

I respect him, but Aardor's comment about the nut shots was spot on.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » April 17, 2008, 11:57 pm

noel wrote:Not sure who said it, (I think it was Winnow) but I agree that Parker, not Duncan will be the key to the Spurs chances in this series.

I'm displeased with you, sonny.

It's Manu!

noel · Post by **noel** » April 18, 2008, 12:52 am

Sueven wrote:
noel wrote:Not sure who said it, (I think it was Winnow) but I agree that Parker, not Duncan will be the key to the Spurs chances in this series.
I'm displeased with you, sonny.

It's Manu!

Manu's not himself at the moment because he's coming off a GROIN injury. If the Spurs chances are on his shoulders, they're fucked.

Aardor · Post by **Aardor** » April 19, 2008, 9:08 pm

Winnow wrote:Priority one: Contain Duncan
Priority Two: Contain Parker
Priority Three: Everything else

Priority one: failed

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » April 19, 2008, 9:19 pm

Aardor wrote:
Winnow wrote:Priority one: Contain Duncan
Priority Two: Contain Parker
Priority Three: Everything else
Priority one: failed

It sure did. Can't believe Duncan hit that three pointer.

I'm encouraged by how the Suns played without Shaq for the entire first half. I don't think this 2OT loss will hurt the Suns' focus. Hopefully Diaw will keep playing aggressive.

noel · Post by **noel** » April 19, 2008, 9:19 pm

That was a tough goddamn loss for the Suns. Getting the Spurs to a second overtime in their house was incredible, but for that much effort, you really have to finish. I only watched the fourth quarter on, but Amare needs to control himself better and not be in foul trouble down the stretch. I actually credit Phil Jackson's coaching style for Shaq's ability to roll with 5 fouls for as long as he did.

No matter what team you're a fan of, that 3-pointer by Duncan was so fucking money it's not funny. His line was absolutely sick at the end of the game. 40pts. 15reb. 5ast. 3blk. 1stl. Amazing.

Aardor · Post by **Aardor** » April 19, 2008, 9:23 pm

Sorry to troll there, Winnow just makes it so easy. I missed the game, and I am really upset about it. Hopefully the quality of games stays at the level of the first two.

noel · Post by **noel** » April 19, 2008, 9:25 pm

I didn't realize you were trolling. Winnow has a way of polarizing people about his viewpoints because of his enthusiasm.

The Cavs won. I watched a bit of the game, but I couldn't really generate much interest. I was glad to see Agent Zero playing well again.

Aardor · Post by **Aardor** » April 19, 2008, 9:38 pm

noel wrote:I didn't realize you were trolling. Winnow has a way of polarizing people about his viewpoints because of his enthusiasm.

The Cavs won. I watched a bit of the game, but I couldn't really generate much interest. I was glad to see Agent Zero playing well again.

Haha, I saw the box score, and the first thing I did think "oh i have to make fun of winnow!" And yes he certainly does, I think the Suns would be the 2nd team to win the championship, if I got to choose (after the Nuggets).

From the replays I saw, Lebron just took over at the end of the game, like last years in the playoffs.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » April 19, 2008, 11:35 pm

Honestly, why do they even bother interviewing Yao Ming?

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » April 19, 2008, 11:38 pm

I'd like to give myself a little pat on the back for talking about the importance of late-game Manu heroics to the series.

And I agree with Winnow that the Suns look like the better team. Problem is, they looked like the better team last year too. At some point, you need to start winning games and not just look like you should be winning games. Suns have to win twice as many games as the Spurs for the rest of the series, or they're gone.

noel · Post by **noel** » April 20, 2008, 12:52 am

I dunno. Based on one game, I see the Suns as a hell of a lot more competitive against the Spurs than they were last year. I also saw a few instances where the Spurs looked a bit old. Clearly though they still have that iron will and drive that's carried them through the last several years.

It was a really excellent way to open the series. I just hope whoever ends up winning isn't so tired from the series that they suck in round 2.

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » April 20, 2008, 2:01 am

It doesn't matter. New Orleans (or NorHor as I call them (lol)) will breeze past whoever wins this series.
Chris Paul is playing out of his fucking mind right now, and all year for that matter.

Aardor · Post by **Aardor** » April 20, 2008, 3:16 am

noel · Post by **noel** » April 20, 2008, 3:22 am

Zamtuk wrote:It doesn't matter. New Orleans (or NorHor as I call them (lol)) will breeze past whoever wins this series.
Chris Paul is playing out of his fucking mind right now, and all year for that matter.

Was anyone less feared in the Western Conference Playoffs than Dallas?

I agree though, the next round is going to be awesome.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » April 20, 2008, 4:35 am

Was anyone less feared in the Western Conference Playoffs than Dallas?

Houston

Pherr the Dorf · Post by **Pherr the Dorf** » April 20, 2008, 7:35 pm

Dwight Howard needs to play like that every game, he is such a beast

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » April 20, 2008, 9:47 pm

Sixers win game one!

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » April 20, 2008, 9:55 pm

Hey, we haven't had many/any predictions on this thread. Maybe that's because it's a really tough year to predict. I have no particular confidence in any of these picks.

East:

Boston
Detroit
Orlando
Washington

Boston
Detroit

West:

Los Angeles
New Orleans
Phoenix
Utah

Los Angeles
New Orleans

Finals:

Boston over Los Angeles. I would LOVE to see this series. I have no idea who would win.

Awards:
MVP: I really don't know who deserves it this year. I guess if I was forced to vote I'd pick Chris Paul.
Coach: Rick Adelman
Sixth Man: Ginobili (this one was easy)
Most Improved: Rudy Gay
Rookie: Kevin Durant
Defensive: Kevin Garnett

noel · Post by **noel** » April 20, 2008, 10:05 pm

LMAO at Detroit:

My predictions for the awards:
MVP: Kobe
Coach: Byron Scott (man I miss watching him play for the Lakers)
Sixth Man: Ginobili (this one is easy)
Most Improved: Turkoglu
Rookie: Kevin Durant
Defensive: Kevin Garnett

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » April 20, 2008, 10:28 pm

Phoenix over Boston for the Championship

MVP: Chris Paul
Best Flopper: Manu
Most Improved: Amare (is now 2nd most efficient player in the league behind LeBron)

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » April 20, 2008, 11:08 pm

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » April 20, 2008, 11:26 pm

I should point out that the awards were picks, not predictions. Award predictions:

Kobe
Byron Scott
Ginobili
Tough... Turkoglu?
Durant
Garnett

Also, I think Winnow is right that Amare should be in the running for most improved. He's kicking some ass.

noel · Post by **noel** » April 21, 2008, 12:13 am

Sueven wrote:Also, I think Winnow is right that Amare should be in the running for most improved. He's kicking some ass.

I'll agree with that as well. I saw a stat during the game the other day that showed he led the league with a hundred and something And-1s. The next closest guy was Lebron in the high 60s (memory fuzzy might have been higher). That's pretty goddamn impressive.

Oh also... my picks (not predictions):

MVP: CP3
Coach: Byron Scott (man I miss watching him play for the Lakers)
Sixth Man: Ginobili (this one is easy)
Most Improved: Turkoglu
Rookie: Kevin Durant
Defensive: Kevin Garnett

Spang · Post by **Spang** » April 21, 2008, 12:16 am

I don't see any team beating the Celtics.

They're taking it all.

noel · Post by **noel** » April 22, 2008, 10:28 pm

If Chris Paul keeps playing like this, Magic Johnson will have competition as the greatest point guard of all time.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » April 22, 2008, 10:41 pm

They better not give Kobe a charity MVP. The rationale I've heard most often is that Chris Paul has plenty of time to get an MVP while Kobe's getting old...well, that's probably what they said about Kobe when he was young and didn't get the MVP. Give to the most deserving no matter what. That's Chris Paul this year.

noel · Post by **noel** » April 22, 2008, 10:48 pm

I really agree. Just like Nash did for several years, he makes all of his teammates better and has just an incredible court presence.

The very fact that Winnow is lobbying for someone who's not a Phoenix Sun for MVP should tell you all you need to know.

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » April 23, 2008, 12:01 am

I was on his bandwagon first! But really, as I've told my friends, Kobe will get it. I was stumping hard for CP3, but it came down to one simple fact; who won the West. If the Hornets would have beat the Lakers last week, it would have been a done deal, but it will go to Kobe. Paul, however, is still plenty more deserving of it than Kobe is.

noel · Post by **noel** » April 23, 2008, 12:13 am

Fairly certain we're all in agreement. Kobe will get it, CP3 deserves it.

I don't think it's horrible that it's going to Kobe. At the end of the regular season with the Lakers winning the West it was pretty much a tossup imho. After the first two games of the playoffs though, CP3 is making much more experienced players look really stupid.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » April 23, 2008, 12:17 am

It's time to fire D'Antoni.

The Suns look asleep the second half. You can't let your team change that much over halftime. D'Antoni is getting owned by Popavich.

Sickening.

noel · Post by **noel** » April 23, 2008, 12:24 am

Yeah the Suns are really asleep here in the third quarter. I don't personally think D'Antoni is the problem... While I think the Shaq trade was a good thing, I still think they're adjusting to it. I blame Sean Marion (who's getting what the fuck he deserves) for the Suns problems this year. I think they would have been just fine in the playoffs with their previous lineup if Marion wasn't such a selfish bastard.

Winnow, do you happen to know what Nikes Nash is wearing? They mentioned he was wearing new ones tonight.

Edit: Lets not forget that the Suns nearly won the first game 3 times.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » April 23, 2008, 12:38 am

Well at least I didn't have to see the Suns lose in the 4th or OT tonight. They gave up at halftime.

Fucking crazy.

noel · Post by **noel** » April 23, 2008, 12:53 am

Yeah this is really depressing. I really want the Suns to win this series.

Pat Riley is quoted as saying that the Playoffs don't begin until a team wins on the other teams home court.

Lets hope the Suns can hold serve and push this to 6 or 7.

Edit: I'm sure StupidMcDupid will get in his one post a year anytime now about how cool the Spurs are. Hopefully we won't hear from Leonard much more in this thread.

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » April 23, 2008, 1:53 am

That was painful(ly hilarious) to watch.

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » April 23, 2008, 2:23 am

Hopefully we won't hear from Leonard much more in this thread.

Meh. The Cavs won three in a row against the Pistons and still got defeated a while back. I'm not worried about the Silly Sixers. Though -if- the Pistons go down 2-0 I will be disappointed.

Nash is going to retire a very sad man.