NFL News/Discussion 2009

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » January 20, 2010, 4:26 pm

Don't bother using facts with Winnow, he just ignores them and keeps on typing.

Based on what is occuring now, I think it unlikely that the Jets will win. The Vikes I would call a coin toss, given the way they owned NO last year with Gus Fearott, but they are historical chokers. I think we are probably looking at a Colts Vikes SB, but given the scenarios:

Vikes Colts, Vikes win
Vikes Jets, Jets win
Saints Colts, Saints win
Saints Jets, Jets win

Why? Because defense wins championships and the Jets have the best Defense still playing.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » January 20, 2010, 5:17 pm

I am aware of all of that Kimoll. That's in the past. Ties are changing! We'll see this year. Jets can prove me wrong.

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » January 20, 2010, 5:31 pm

Are they going back to the straight narrow tie or a broad pastel style?

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » January 20, 2010, 6:27 pm

Defense does not exist in Arizona Sports.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » January 20, 2010, 6:53 pm

Winnow wrote:Defense does not exist in Arizona Sports.

Neither do championships.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » January 20, 2010, 7:33 pm

Jice Virago wrote:Don't bother using facts with Winnow, he just ignores them and keeps on typing.

Based on what is occuring now, I think it unlikely that the Jets will win. The Vikes I would call a coin toss, given the way they owned NO last year with Gus Fearott, but they are historical chokers. I think we are probably looking at a Colts Vikes SB, but given the scenarios:

Vikes Colts, Vikes win
Vikes Jets, Jets win
Saints Colts, Saints win
Saints Jets, Jets win

Why? Because defense wins championships and the Jets have the best Defense still playing.

I could see the Jets beating the colts. If they can pressure Manning and get 2 interceptions I think they win. They will need to keep the chains moving and put up 20 points and there is a very realistic chance. The Vikings have a good defense and the Saints when healthy have had a good defense. They are both healthy right now, so I really see that game coming down to which favre shows up. If it is the good favre they will win. If it is the bad Favre, they will get stomped.

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » January 20, 2010, 8:22 pm

The real issue with the Vikes is not Favre. Its if Peterson remembers to secure the ball or not. Outside of when Childress was putting the clamps on the offense, Favre has been phenomenal and even when he was forced to run vanilla, he did not put up horrific numbers. The Stealers loss is the only one I think you can even remotely pin on Favre, and even in that game the rout got started when Taylor let one through his hands. Peterson fumbling is what will kill them, if anything. Defense wise, I don't think the Saints have faced a defense remotely as good as the Vikings all year. Dallas was really the closest and, I guess the Jets before they got their shit together late in the season.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » January 20, 2010, 9:30 pm

Before this weekend rolls around and Winnow starts gloating:

The Colts (a 14-2 powerhouse) beating the Jets (a 9-7 wild card team that snuck into the playoffs) in Indianapolis will prove precisely jack shit about the relative balance between offense and defense in the NFL. It will provide another data point in support of the theory that the better team usually wins.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » January 20, 2010, 10:24 pm

Sueven wrote:Before this weekend rolls around and Winnow starts gloating:

The Colts (a 14-2 powerhouse) beating the Jets (a 9-7 wild card team that snuck into the playoffs) in Indianapolis will prove precisely jack shit about the relative balance between offense and defense in the NFL. It will provide another data point in support of the theory that the better team usually wins.

Jets have the #1 defense. At issue is if defense wins championships. I saw no attempt to actually consider whether the teams' offense was any good...simply that defense wins championships. Well, the Colts are ranked in the lower half defensively and the Jets are #1...pretty straight forward. If the Colts win, defense most definitely did not win a championship. If the Jets win, it's an overwhelmingly positive sign that defense wins championships.

And Az as four championships in the 00's Three NBA titles which were stolen from them by corrupt refs and one Major League World Series Title.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » January 20, 2010, 10:40 pm

Winnow wrote:...and one Major League World Series Title.

Baseball isn't a real sport.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » January 21, 2010, 11:55 am

How much more data do we need to know that in every decade that the NFL has been in existence, teams with strong defenses have dominated in the number of trophies from the Super Bowl and NFL Championships? Not just are winning by a 51-49% margin, but dominating.

Your absurd, retarded, inane, boneheaded, moronic, asinine, arizonian, stupidity regarding what you imagine the data to be in the FUTURE just astounds me in its depth. You are truly a bottomless pit of sports ignorance.

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » January 21, 2010, 1:39 pm

His vagina still hurts over Az blowing a three score lead and letting the lackluster Packers back into the game. He is now in full Winnow Obstenance Mode and denying any facts that do not support his "Arizona is the BEST!!!!11!1!!!" gibberish, which happens to now include saying defense is meaningless.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » January 21, 2010, 3:06 pm

Well when your defense gives up 90 points in 2 weeks, it means a few things. 1) you are going to be sitting at home again 2) you have never ever won a championship for a reason 3) your defense absolutely sucks and you need to address that

Seriously....we could have put together a defense from people on this board that could have given up 45 points.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » January 21, 2010, 5:16 pm

Arizona lost 2 of their three best players in the secondary. I'm sure that didn't help. DRC and Rolle both went out very early in the game. It was all over after that. When you lose your shut down cornerback and your best playmaking safety, the game gets out of hand quickly. They still had a bad game but that pretty much gave them no chance.

Next year!

Gonzoie - Luclin · Post by **Gonzoie - Luclin** » January 21, 2010, 7:48 pm

I'll trade you a Michael Vick for a Larry Fitzgerald. Time to rebuild if Warner is gone!

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » January 21, 2010, 10:17 pm

Gonzoie - Luclin wrote:I'll trade you a Michael Vick for a Larry Fitzgerald. Time to rebuild if Warner is gone!

I could see Boldin going to Philly to be the possession receiver alongside DeSean Jackson if McNabb stays. If Boldin stayed healthy, the Eagles would be looking good for next year. Boldin is completely expendable by the Cards. They were 6-0 before their last game without him. Breaston has emerged as has Early Doucet.

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » January 24, 2010, 5:28 am

No one gives a shit about your shitty team man. and while you rant and rave about how offense wins championships, your shitty team is sitting around at home wishing they had a defense.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » January 24, 2010, 1:43 pm

I can't see Boldin going to Philadelphia. DeSean Jackson is firmly entrenched as the team's top receiver. Jeremy Maclin had 55/762 as a rookie who missed a few games. Jason Avant is an ideal possession receiver who always makes the tough catches. Brent Celek evolved into a top-notch weapon at the tight end position. And Eagles running backs are always involved in the passing game. Adding Boldin-- a guy who's a great player, but has kind of a redundant skillset for the Eagles, has gotten beat up a bit, and will be 30 next year-- would not make a whole lot of sense, if we sunk any significant resources into acquiring him.

If the Cardinals were willing to accept a fourth or fifth round pick for Boldin, fine. But I don't think that's where they're at.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » January 24, 2010, 2:25 pm

Xyun wrote:No one gives a shit about your shitty team man. and while you rant and rave about how offense wins championships, your shitty team is sitting around at home wishing they had a defense.

Please. The Cardinals made it to the Super Bowl and then made it all the way back to the second round of he playoffs the following year, something which almost no teams do after losing in the Super Bowl the previous year. They're just fine and better than fine. Three of their best defenders were out of the game. Two extremely key players in the secondary. Don't act like this was something that happened in a test tube experiment with perfect situations. Short week, 3 key defensive players out, vs #1 offense who had two weeks of rest. No too surprising there.

Sueven wrote: If the Cardinals were willing to accept a fourth or fifth round pick for Boldin, fine. But I don't think that's where they're at.

They very well might trade Boldin for a fourth or fifth round pick.

You mention Jeremy Maclin's rookie stats of 55/762.

Boldin's rookie stats: 101/1,377

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » January 24, 2010, 2:39 pm

Well, if the Cards would take a late pick, sure I'd add him. He's a great player. It's just not worth investing serious resources in the position, given that it would involve pushing Maclin back to the bench and there are other areas that need more help.

And Boldin's rookie season is legendary. 55/762 is a very promising rookie year by ordinary standards (especially since he missed some time and didn't start the whole season).

Soreali · Post by **Soreali** » January 25, 2010, 12:11 am

Favre Watch 2010 begins now...

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » January 25, 2010, 12:13 am

Well imagine that.

The LOWER ranked defense in both games came out the winner.

Looks like defense will be watching a championship on their TVs.

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » January 25, 2010, 2:49 am

Actually, the Saints can thank Adrian Peterson. I know blame is going to be put on Favre because he threw two pretty meaningless picks, but if Peterson (who was supposed to be the strength of the team) keeps his hands on the fucking ball on any of his three fumbles this game, it never goes to overtime. If he doesn't fumble late in Chicago, this game gets played in the Metrodome where the refs don't let Favre get subjected to the most blatent raping in the place since Katrina. I'm not blaming the reffing for the loss, but if that were Brady out there instead of Favre (and Warner last week) there would have been flags for roughing all game, instead of the two ridiculously blatant ones they threw. And there is no way that last pass gets called complete on the review, either.

Still, its the Vikings own fault. Sincoe, Favre, and Harvin seemed like the only people who wanted to go to a superbowl. Peterson sure as hell didn't.

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » January 25, 2010, 4:44 am

Oh please Jice. Yes Peterson fumbled blah blah blah. I watched the game and what I remember is a tie game with a minute to go and the vikings moving the ball into field goal range. In fact they were in field goal range (at the 34 yard line makes it a 51 yard field goal). On 3rd down they get a penalty and moved back 5 yards out of field goal range. Then, the most important play of the game takes place, where Favre throws the interception and denies his team even a shot at a 56 yarder. He coulda ran it 5-10 yards easily and stepped out of bounds. The vikings overcame all of the turn overs and adversity, Favre's last decision cost them the game and to call it a meaningless pick is beyond absurd.

Wulfran · Post by **Wulfran** » January 25, 2010, 8:54 am

I kinda agree with Xyun about the pick not being meaningless from the perspective that if he tried to run and only got 5 and slid, they could still try the FG, but to me what killed that drive was the coaching fuck up that cost them the 5 yards. Without that penalty Favre could have thrown it out of bounds and Longwell still has the shot, instead it forced a play. I also kinda agree with Jice about AP fumbling the ball but he wasn't the only one who couldn't hang onto it: my wife and I were watching and she couldn't believe it was a playoff game with two top teams, the amount the ball the squirting out on everyone. Did they grease that fucking thing or what? There were a LOT of mistakes in Viking-land to lose that game: Favre's was the most visible, and with his impending 3rd retirement press conference, the pick is going to be the most talked about even though the TEAM gave away the ball 5 times... you don't win like that. I felt sorry for Favre for the beating he took last night, and wish if that was his career, it didn't end that way but thems the breaks.

And Jice, stop whining about the refs before you start sounding like Winnow's twin brother.

I haven't really decided who am cheering for in the Superbowl yet: I like the idea of the Saints winning their first one, but I like Manning too and was impressed by the way the Colts adjusted and then took it to the Jets. I didn't mind the thoughts of any of the teams playing this weekend winning (my least favorite probably being the Jets). I'm just hoping for an entertaining game.

Kluden · Post by **Kluden** » January 25, 2010, 11:07 am

Both games were phenomenal. The Saints deserved to win that game, saying otherwise is not fair. I didn't like 50% of the calls during that game, but what are you going to do? Atl east the fuckups were even handed...at least to me, who could give a poo for either team. Refs fuck up every game. These refs probably shouldn't do another championship game, imo.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » January 25, 2010, 12:41 pm

Super Bowl = Battle of Two Bottom Half Defenses!

May the worst defense win!

Actually, I have a hard time seeing the well balanced Colts losing to the Saints. The Saints live off of turnovers and Payton Manning isn't going to give them up as easily as final drive choker Favre.

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » January 25, 2010, 1:34 pm

I wasn't whining about the refs as much as I was pointing out the uneven standard they have applied all year on the QB protection rules. The kind of late pummeling that went on in both Saints playoff games would have never been tolerated if it were Manning or Brady getting drilled after the throw like that. Honestly, they planted Brees late in a way that should have been flagged a couple times too. The instant replay on the last completion is annoying, of course, but I clearly stated the Vikings lost this game themselves.

And I know everyone has been sharpenning their knives waiting to go after Favre since before week one of the regular season, but honestly, six fumbles, the lion share by Peterson, is what fucked the Vikes out of this, not the pick with time expiring when they were well out of FG range. Childress did them no favors with the playcalls on the last drive too, along with the clusterfuck that was the 12 men in the huddle AFTER a timeout. That bullshit is on Childress. The worst thing Favre did all day was not pull it down and run on the last play in regulation, but even if with his beat up legs he gets seven yards, its still a 50 yard FG attempt at best. Simply put, if Peterson actually hangs on to the fucking ball at any point in this game, the Vikes go to the SB, but everyone is going to crucify Favre instead because its fashionable to do so. Honestly, the way Peterson has played all year, I kind of feel that Childress fucked the team by trusting in him over Chester Taylor, anyhow. So many other fuckups led to that loss yesterday, but thats going to all get ignored in favor of trashing Favre. I hope throwing away a Superbowl was worth stroking AP's tender ego for Childress, because the Vikes are going to be lucky to win the division with T-Jack under center.

Wulfran · Post by **Wulfran** » January 25, 2010, 2:09 pm

Well, I agree with you:

a) the knives will be out for Favre after that pick but on the other hand, I'll eat my own words from the beginning of the season and admit he was a huge upgrade over Travaris Jackson and they wouldn't have been there without him. Favre was the right QB for that Viking team.
b) Peterson does deserve a healthy share of the blame for the end result of yesterday's game but it isn't all on him anymore than it is all on Favre. As you mentioned, Childress should wear a lot too, especially for the penalty. Berrian and others should wear horns too.

I sorta agree:

- the 50 yard attempt for Longwell wasn't an automatic 3 pts for the win... but it was possible and the way he has been you could argue probable. Shit could have happened but we'll never know now.
- the shots on the QBs I don't know. Yeah they have rules in place but aside from Brady or Manning, do you get more star power at QB than Brees and Favre? One flag they did throw, Aikman didn't like (and I agreed). Its not right to penalize someone who already has his hands on the guy or is mid air and leaping at the QB for taking him down. Its a thin line between protecting the passers and killing the contact in the game.

The Saints got their perfect storm of creole voodoo shit to happen, as well as making enough plays of their own to seal the deal, but I really don't know how they'll make it work against the Colts.

Favre and the Vikings had a good run and even the most disgruntled Vikes fan should be able to appreciate that in a while once the pain of elimination fades.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » January 25, 2010, 2:32 pm

Quite making excuses. Favre was in a position (a great position) to win the game for the Vikings. The game was on the line. A few yards needed (could have run for them), and he threw an awful pick. I don't care what happens in a game before the "end game". When the pressure was on, Favre screwed up all by himself. Epic fail.

Kluden · Post by **Kluden** » January 25, 2010, 3:10 pm

Yeah, but two of those fumbles were favre too though, no? the hand offs were poopoo...but a RB needs to be ready for that too...so who knows on that blame game.

No doubt favre will take the lions share of victimizing, because he's the 1 year contract. He's the hired gun. AP is just the posterchild for nike...so fans will love him anyways...but yes, the bar I was at, all i heard the whole game was "please hand it to AP...we need the ball back". That started on the first play of the game.

After watching all the games...I'm not sure how the Saints can beat the Colts. They adjust better than any team I've seen in 10 years. Both teams seem to be able to turn it on and score at will...but obviously you can't keep that up an entire game. If I were to have to say a way for the saints to win, 3 interceptions would be it.

The best part about this super bowl is its #1 vs #1...so at least you have the two teams that were great and did their job basically the entire season and playoffs now. This doesn't happen that often I don't think.

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » January 25, 2010, 3:34 pm

The fumbled exchange with AP was credited to Favre on the stat sheet, but even AP stated it was him not having proper hand setup on the exchange because he was looking ahead. The first pick was completely unexcusable by Favre, but neither were redzone picks or even resulted in points. Every Peterson fumble was a dick puncher (and on the heels of handing home field to NO in the Chicago game) that either gave points or cost the team points. Basically, Peterson personally swung the game about three scores, in my eyes. Childress yanked him way too late.

On the subject of Childress, I have no fucking clue why they did not put in ANY max protect or rollouts with the way Favre was getting killed out there. If the average Minnesotta fan were not such a moron, I would expect a lot of bitching about his choices once people have some time to digest how that game (and the end stretch of the season) went down. Call me crazy, but when your back has a raging case of fumblitus and you have a ton of time on the clock (plus two time outs) why the fuck do you even try to run it on 1st and second down on that last series? It was stupid game management and the cowning garnishment of the shit sandwich that has been Childress's coaching decisions since the Vikes wrapped up the NFC North. The real irony of this is that Favre has gotten another highly overrated coach a massive contract extention in the NFC North, shortly before leaving.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » January 25, 2010, 5:33 pm

I don't have much to add that hasn't already been said on what happened with the game (I'm kinda with Jice on this one), however... Anyone that really thinks the Saints have a chance at winning is clearly delusional. The only reason they won the game last night was because of the Vikings excessive fumbling. Overall, they played a considerably worse game, and I expect that they are going to get gang raped on national television come Superbowl Sunday.

I'll eat my words if that proves wrong, but I'm exceedingly confident that won't happen.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » January 25, 2010, 5:41 pm

The Cardinals beat the crap out of Vikings during the season. Quit making excuses for the Vikings. They weren't that good.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » January 25, 2010, 5:45 pm

Winnow wrote:The Cardinals beat the crap out of Vikings during the season. Quit making excuses for the Vikings. They weren't that good.

Neither were the Cardinals, apparently!

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » January 25, 2010, 5:54 pm

Aslanna wrote:
Winnow wrote:The Cardinals beat the crap out of Vikings during the season. Quit making excuses for the Vikings. They weren't that good.
Neither were the Cardinals, apparently!

Well Arizona was the best team in football if I'm allowed to start pulling excuses out of an endless rabbit hat like like those I'm seeing above. I saw the same excuses made when the Vikings got spanked by the Cardinals.

Gooooo Cardinals!

Spang · Post by **Spang** » January 25, 2010, 8:07 pm

Arizona only made the playoffs because they sucked less than any other team in their conference.

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » January 25, 2010, 9:05 pm

... and still got broomed by the 49ers...

But we all know that in the Winnoverse the Saints winning a squeaker and winning the SB somehow absolves the 45-14 ass kicking the Cards recieved. Thats why he is going to wax homeristic for the Saints for the next couple weeks. The bad news for him is that with the draft options the 49ers have comming up, that division is not going to be a gimmee anymore, which is probably why Kurt "I love the Lord" Warner's god is telling him to quit. Well, that and all the cheapshots he took last week from the Saints.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » January 25, 2010, 10:01 pm

I heard all of these predictions of doom last year about the Cardinals.

Bottom line:

Cardinals:

-A had a better record than last year

-made it past first round in playoffs when they were supposed to (el oh el) lose the division toe the Seahawks, completely avoiding this supposed SB loser curse

-I was the only one giving the 49'ers credit before the season so it's no wonder you all are surprised the 49'ers beat the Cardinals because you either live in the past or have zero foresight

-Cardinals stomped the midwest teams. Beat the Vikings handily during the regular season and gave the Packers the boot in the first round.

Enjoy your off season. lol

The Cardinals did just fine.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » January 25, 2010, 10:10 pm

Winnow wrote:-made it past first round in playoffs when they were supposed to (el oh el) lose the division toe the Seahawks, completely avoiding this supposed SB loser curse

Those were preseason predictions, dumbass.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » January 25, 2010, 10:12 pm

Winnow wrote:The Cardinals did just fine.

So since the Vikings made it further.. They did even finer?

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » January 25, 2010, 10:28 pm

Winnow may be my favorite message board poster ever. Keep in mind that he's done this for TWENTY THOUSAND posts. How long did Searyx last? A month?

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » January 25, 2010, 10:39 pm

whoa, didn't realize he broke 20k!

I bet 10k of them were about AZ sports

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » January 25, 2010, 11:14 pm

Nah, that wouldn't leave nearly enough space for discussing Apple and Sony.

Football:

I think the Colts are going to beat the Saints solidly. Probably by two scores. The Saints kind of seem like a more extreme version of the 1994 Chargers. That was the year the Chargers started out 6-0, went 5-5 after that, and got stomped by the 49ers in the Super Bowl. I know that 13-0 is better than 6-0, but the Saints performance tailed off during the end of the season even outside their losses. Like the Chargers, the Saints are running into a franchise that's been good for a long time and has been here before. I don't think the Saints are going to lose quite as badly as the Chargers, but maybe 34-20.

The Saints were at their best during, like, weeks 2 and 3. That's usually not a good sign. I'm not going to give them THAT much credit for beating an inferior Cardinals team that was crippled by injuries or for lucking out a win against a Vikings team that outgained them by like 200 plus yards.

But maybe I'm wrong!

Spang · Post by **Spang** » January 25, 2010, 11:27 pm

Sueven wrote:But maybe I'm wrong!

You're not. The Colts will dominate most of the game, but especially the second half.

miir · Post by **miir** » January 26, 2010, 10:39 am

Go Chargers!!!

Oh, wait.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » January 26, 2010, 11:56 am

If the Saints can get to Manning like they did Favre, they will win. Again, the big key to beating the Colts is just getting pressure and good solid hits on Manning. If you try to sit in coverage, he will thrash you. If they can pick up your blitzes, he will thrash you. To beat the Colts, pick up some game film of the Steelers. Patriots, or Chargers playing them in the playoffs. Study it. Find the way to get pressure and hard hits on him with 5 or less rushers.

The Jets shut his ass down for most of the first half. With the Saints offense, shutting him down for most of a half will = SB champs.

Kluden · Post by **Kluden** » January 26, 2010, 12:22 pm

Greg Williams isn't a dumb ass...so I don't see a blowout coming. Its hard to go against the colts with the way the deconstruct the attacking defenses, and then attack for 3 quarters...but, stupider things have happened. I just don't see a blow out. Let's also remember that Indi's defence isn't a world breaker either...so its obviously going to be arm and hands vs. arm and hands. My opinion is to never bet against Payton.

Its the super bowl we're talking about. The refs will keep it close...along with the sheer stupidity of play stoppage for over rated and over priced commercials, basically insuring that neither team could possibly get any momentum going whatsoever...keeping the game stale and close...until the 4th quarter when the network runs out of paying commercial providers because they jampacked them into the first 3 quarters with a stoppages between first downs.

If I were a betting man, I would say something like 35 to 31...just enough to cover that 3.5pt spread.

Wulfran · Post by **Wulfran** » January 29, 2010, 5:41 pm

... and Winnow weeps as Warner walks to get closer to Jesus...

Can Leinart grow up or is it time to spend another draft pick on a new QB for the Cards?

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » January 29, 2010, 5:48 pm

Wulfran wrote:... and Winnow weeps as Warner walks to get closer to Jesus...

Can Leinart grow up or is it time to spend another draft pick on a new QB for the Cards?

Cardinals next year's QBs:

Starting QB: McNabb
Backup QB: Tim Tebow
Third String: Leinart