Sigh

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » June 16, 2003, 1:34 pm

miir wrote:
Cartalas wrote:I will say it again it depends on where you live in the US, you can not use a blanket statement like that.
Yes, I can and will make a blanket statement since we are talking about discrimination in America.

My statement based on national census and historical fact.
I don't really give a fuck that some areas are 80% black and others are 100% white... that's the entire point of averages. you take intermediate between extremes.... If you want to argue the accuracy of the facts and data collected by your censes board, take it up with them.

Detroit is 81.55% Black and 12.26% White who is the minority here?
Chicago has 1,074,471 Blacks and 907,166 Whites who is the minority here?

Memphis 48.6% Black 47.3% White Who is the minority here?

And that was just comparing Black and white races I could keep going with hispanic.
Detroit's population accounts for 0.33% of the entire population of the USA therefore it cannot be taken as an accurate representation of the racial average of the entire nation.
Chicago represents 0.87% and Memphis 0.22%.

Let me reiterate.
If we were discussing discrimination in Detroit, Chicago or Memphis, your little tidbits might hold some value. Since none of those specific regions have been mentioned, your factoids have no value.

Go start one of your retard arguments elsewhere.... you obviously have no point to make here (other than your own stupidity)

Thank you for proving my point. There are areas where whites are the minority but thats fine.

Your statement was "If you live in the USA and are a white, middle class male, you belong to the demographic least likely to encounter discrimination. "

Last time I looked at an atlas Chicago,Detroit and Memphis were all in the United States.

miir · Post by **miir** » June 16, 2003, 1:38 pm

So you admit to not understanding the fundamentals of averages and demographics.... ok, that's fine. I guess there's not much I can really do about your stupidity and ignorance.

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » June 16, 2003, 1:39 pm

Memphis is in Tennessee not the US.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » June 16, 2003, 1:41 pm

miir wrote:So you admit to not understanding the fundamentals of averages and demographics.... ok, that's fine. I guess there's not much I can really do about your stupidity and ignorance.

Who is the one being dense here look at your statement, You made a general comment that was false you dumb ass. I just corrected you on it.

miir · Post by **miir** » June 16, 2003, 1:43 pm

Cartalas wrote:Who is the one being dense here look at your statement, You made a general comment that was false you dumb ass. I just corrected you on it.

This is like arguing with a prechooler.

Why did I take you off ignore anyway?

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » June 16, 2003, 1:47 pm

miir wrote:
Cartalas wrote:Who is the one being dense here look at your statement, You made a general comment that was false you dumb ass. I just corrected you on it.
This is like arguing with a prechooler.

Why did I take you off ignore anyway?

I agree you are as dense as a Iron wall put me back on STFU It was peaceful when you had me on it.

Mort · Post by **Mort** » June 16, 2003, 2:09 pm

I think you 2 should just fuck and get it overwith already.....

j/k

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » June 16, 2003, 2:09 pm

Who is the one being dense here look at your statement, You made a general comment that was false you dumb ass. I just corrected you on it.

Comedy genius.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » June 16, 2003, 2:12 pm

vn_Tanc wrote:
Who is the one being dense here look at your statement, You made a general comment that was false you dumb ass. I just corrected you on it.
Comedy genius.

Why thank you! Ill take that as a complement comming from Willie the WitMeister.

Post by **Sylvus** » June 16, 2003, 2:12 pm

I think you mean:

Comedie Genious.

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » June 16, 2003, 2:13 pm

laneela wrote:Where the hell are you guys living that being an "arab-hating bush lover" "middle-class white man" is typical? I'm a 26 yr old hispanic female and have felt discrimated ONCE in my life which I responded to by working twice as hard to prove to the jackass that his views were ignorant. I've been working since I was 17 and have had two white middle-class men for bosses (one of which was gay). The rest have been mostly comprimised of women and a few other "minorities". Granted, I lived in Miami most of my life which is a very culturally-diversed city but I've also lived in England and am currently living in Southern California.

I agree that racism still exists and it's disgusting when it presents itself but it's not what it used to be. You can't undo 200 years of separation in a day - it's going to take a while... Hate for the "white man" is only slowing down the process.

Careful, enlightened minorities like Kyoukan will call you an Aunt Thomas for this viewpoint.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » June 16, 2003, 5:09 pm

who's a minority?

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » June 16, 2003, 6:38 pm

Ok if you are white (I have no freaking idea what you are other than mostly wrong), enlightened MAjority, either way, she'll get it.

Atokal · Post by **Atokal** » June 18, 2003, 10:19 am

kyoukan wrote:because gay people are discriminated against a lot of the time, so it is nice for them to be able to have days when they can feel good about themselves with people that share their sexual orientation.

it is the same thing with women, and with minorities.

being the middle class white male that you are it is virtually impossible for you to understand that though.

The day you post a picture of yourself as a gay black female living in the ghetto is the day comments like the one above will carry some weight. If you "a middle class white female" can have life experiences that give you better insight into discrimination issues then why can't someone else have those same experiences and come up with a different opinion?

It amazes me that during your hectic schedule of volunteer work at the local hospice helping aids patients, protesting the USA for their mirade transgressions, your work with the poor and finally the great job you are doing with discrimination issues that you have the time to continually baffle the majority of people here with your tremendous insights and witty prose.

I would also ask the stupid shithead sidekick of yours Lalanae why it is an infringement of gay peoples rights or freedoms when "Christians" don't want the gay agenda flaunted in front of them at every turn? Yet the gay movement gets all the support you can muster. You don't think christians are being discriminated against? I would love to hear your fucked up, slanted opinion if it were Christians being told they could not use Government Buildings for a gathering place. I think a seperation of Church and State is good as is a seperation of sexual orientation and State.

You wanna be gay and celebrate, go rent a hall or an arena and have your event.

Atokal · Post by **Atokal** » June 18, 2003, 10:53 am

Ooga[foh] wrote:Who cares if homosexuals want to march? I mean really. Soon it's going to be celebrated in the same context as even black history month.

It's a lifestyle that people just haven't learned to accept yet, bottom line. Get over it, people aren't going to stop being gay.

Once up a time I was way way way homophobic. I had a downright hatred for them. Then I graduated high school and realized gay folks are no different then anyone else. Some guys like fat girls, some guys like skinny girls, some guys like guys, hell, some like both. Yipee? Do I think tax payer dollars should be being spent on thier parade? Why the hell not. What's life if you can't allow someone to feel good about themselves every once in a while. I will gladly contibute my .001 cent federal tax if it makes them feel good about living. Don't get me wrong, if it was in my town I wouldn't be going to the parade or march or whatever, but I would be happy to buy one of their raffle tickets from a co-worker.

All laudable opinions, the problem here is that if it were a Christian, or Jewish event the government were sponsoring I am sure these same people that cry racism and discrimination would be up in arms saying it was wrong for the government to support religious organizations. Oh the hypocrisy.

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » June 18, 2003, 10:55 am

I would also ask the stupid shithead sidekick of yours Lalanae why it is an infringement of gay peoples rights or freedoms when "Christians" don't want the gay agenda flaunted in front of them at every turn? Yet the gay movement gets all the support you can muster. You don't think christians are being discriminated against? I would love to hear your fucked up, slanted opinion if it were Christians being told they could not use Government Buildings for a gathering place. I think a seperation of Church and State is good as is a seperation of sexual orientation and State.

Christians being discriminated against? ROFL! I discriminate against Christians because it would take a class A moron to believe in 2000 year old mythology. I assume the reason your silly-puddy brain would correlate religion and sexual orientation is the same reason you correlate Iraq with Al-Queda, or cock with vagina... YOU JUST DON'T KNOW THE FUCKING DIFFERENCE.

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » June 18, 2003, 11:20 am

Xyun wrote: Christians being discriminated against? ROFL! I discriminate against Christians because it would take a class A moron to believe in 2000 year old mythology.

Xyun, I was shocked by your Class A moron statement, and even moreso after re-reading your own words earlier in this thread:

Xyun wrote: If a person cannot tolerate the prevailing way of thought of his own society, he/she will be made a pariah of that society. If a person cannot tolerate a segment of his own society, he/she should not be a part of that society.

You seem to contradict yourself. Not a flame, just an observation.

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » June 18, 2003, 11:28 am

Dude, you are confused in so many ways...

The prevailing way of thought in America is not "Be a Christian", it is freedom of religion. If I was forced by law to be Christian you are damn right I would be a pariah and evacuate the hell-hole in which I lived. I thank the god that don't exist this is not that kind of society.

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » June 18, 2003, 11:30 am

Yes I understand that part, but then you go on to say that if a person cannot tolerate a SEGMENT of their society, then they should not be part of that society. You seem to not give much tolerance to Christians, if you truly discriminate against us like you said you do that is. Am I wrong here?

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » June 18, 2003, 11:33 am

I live in Oklahoma... the amount of Christianity I tolerate astounds even me.

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » June 18, 2003, 11:38 am

So you are tolerant towards Christians, but discriminate against them? If you were joking about your discrimination comment, then there is no debate, but if you were serious.....

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » June 18, 2003, 11:39 am

pretty much, yes.

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » June 18, 2003, 11:43 am

Which part of my post are you yessing to.

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » June 18, 2003, 11:44 am

So you are tolerant towards Christians, but discriminate against them?

masteen · Post by **masteen** » June 18, 2003, 11:45 am

Krimson Klaw wrote:Which part of my post are you yessing to.

The part where he is a hypocrite in true Christian fashion.

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » June 18, 2003, 11:49 am

Ok I think I got this, you are against racial discrimination, reverse racial discrimination, and I think sexual discrimination, but you think it's ok for you to discriminate against Christians? Do you not see the hypocrisy there? Am I totally wrong in seeing you as a hypocrite right now Xyun?

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » June 18, 2003, 11:54 am

There is no hypocracy. You are making the same mistake Toker made by correlating religion to these different things.

People choose to be Christian, Jewish, Muslim, etc. They do not choose to be white or black, male or female, gay or straight. I discriminate against people's actions, yes! As does every other fucking person on the planet, and they should.

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » June 18, 2003, 12:03 pm

So you only discriminate against a persons lifestyle choice (religion), right?

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » June 18, 2003, 12:06 pm

No, I discriminate against all idiots. The bigger the idiot, the more I discriminate!

/wave Atokal

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » June 18, 2003, 12:09 pm

And Christians are idiots because they do not have the same afterlife/philisophical beliefs that you do. How is that any different than me discriminating against gays because they don't share my philosophical beliefs?

masteen · Post by **masteen** » June 18, 2003, 12:12 pm

Xyun wrote:There is no hypocracy. You are making the same mistake Toker made by correlating religion to these different things.

People choose to be Christian, Jewish, Muslim, etc. They do not choose to be white or black, male or female, gay or straight. I discriminate against people's actions, yes! As does every other fucking person on the planet, and they should.

People don't necessarily choose their religion. Religious parents instill their beliefs into their kids during the child's most impressionable period. So saying religion is always a choice is as stupid as Metanis saying that sexual orientation is a choice.

Now, born-again Christians, converted Muslims/Jews are definitely matters of choice, but the blanket statement you made is bullshit.

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » June 18, 2003, 12:14 pm

This is too much fun.

Well, if being gay was always a choice, then it would be no different. However, since it is not always a choice then the discrimination is not based on the content of character, but rather a genetic trait.

noel · Post by **noel** » June 18, 2003, 12:16 pm

Xyun wrote:There is no hypocracy. You are making the same mistake Toker made by correlating religion to these different things.

People choose to be Christian, Jewish, Muslim, etc. They do not choose to be white or black, male or female, gay or straight. I discriminate against people's actions, yes! As does every other fucking person on the planet, and they should.

I could make a rather compelling argument that due to the socialization process the majority of religious individuals might have a choice, but don't perceive it.

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » June 18, 2003, 12:19 pm

I agree that some people don't realize they have a choice, but are they any less to blame for their ignorance? I think not.

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » June 18, 2003, 12:22 pm

You know guys you really out did yourselves on this thread.

I think I'm actually going to spend some time tonight reading this thread from the top.

Its just too bad there isn't a way to take a trhead with 3 or 4 different themes and branch them out into their own threads for the sake of clarity.

Given human nature it wouldn't happen unless there was a new msg board model that did it automatically for us.

hmm, I wonder how you could do it....

BTW allow me to throw a log on the fire.

Xyun, get this,

Many belive that some folks are born gay, yet they still belive however that it is wrong to act on, or satisfy gay impulses.

Sadly that viewpoint doesn't quite fit into your split delineations.

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » June 18, 2003, 12:24 pm

Xyun wrote:This is too much fun.

Well, if being gay was always a choice, then it would be no different. However, since it is not always a choice then the discrimination is not based on the content of character, but rather a genetic trait.

Ok but you yourself just said "not always a choice" so that indicates a lifestyle decision. So again I ask you, how is discrimination against ones sexual preference any different than descrimination against ones religious preference. Just say you are being hypocritical and I will go away, it's ok, just say it.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » June 18, 2003, 12:25 pm

Xyun wrote:There is no hypocracy. You are making the same mistake Toker made by correlating religion to these different things.

People choose to be Christian, Jewish, Muslim, etc. They do not choose to be white or black, male or female, gay or straight. I discriminate against people's actions, yes! As does every other fucking person on the planet, and they should.

Some people dont choose there religion, Its rammed down there throat.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » June 18, 2003, 12:25 pm

Complete bullshit. You are a hypocrite Xyun. The thing is, you can't disprove any religion any more than it can be proved. So you are forming an opinion about a group of people and treat them differently than you would of those who hold your own views. That is disciminatory and if you were anyone important (don't have to worry about that) then you would definitely get yourself into legal troubles.

noel · Post by **noel** » June 18, 2003, 12:27 pm

Adex_Xeda wrote:Many belive that some folks are born gay, yet they still belive however that it is wrong to act on, or satisfy gay impulses.

Sadly that viewpoint doesn't quite fit into your split delineations.

I don't understand what point you're trying to make here. The people who believe it's wrong are stupid.

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » June 18, 2003, 12:28 pm

Yes Adex, why don't you go tell some dolphins and gazelles not to be gay because your god said it's not right, and if they refuse, kill 'em for not fearing your god as they should, the same way your religion has done to so many people over the centuries.

Kilmoll wrote:The thing is, you can't disprove any religion any more than it can be proved.

You're right Kilmoll, I can't disprove religion because it is IMfuckingPOSSIBLE to prove the non-existence of something. For example, when someone says "I have no WMDs", it is impossible for them to prove it. I know all this logic is hurting your brain so I'll stop.

I'm tired and I'm going to bed. Hopefully Atokal will entertain me and embarass himself by posting again! I love a good laugh when I wake up.

Peace

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » June 18, 2003, 12:28 pm

Cartalas wrote:
Xyun wrote:There is no hypocracy. You are making the same mistake Toker made by correlating religion to these different things.

People choose to be Christian, Jewish, Muslim, etc. They do not choose to be white or black, male or female, gay or straight. I discriminate against people's actions, yes! As does every other fucking person on the planet, and they should.

Some people dont choose there religion, Its rammed down there throat.

Cartalas, human beings have free will so I disagree with this notion once a person reaches maturity. As a child this does apply, but it's not 100% as an adult. Racist households raise racist children most of the time, and some of those kids grow up and make a concious decision to not be a part of that lifestyle any longer, same with religion, same with politics etc.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » June 18, 2003, 12:31 pm

Krimson Klaw wrote:
Cartalas wrote:
Xyun wrote:There is no hypocracy. You are making the same mistake Toker made by correlating religion to these different things.

People choose to be Christian, Jewish, Muslim, etc. They do not choose to be white or black, male or female, gay or straight. I discriminate against people's actions, yes! As does every other fucking person on the planet, and they should.

Some people dont choose there religion, Its rammed down there throat.
Cartalas, human beings have free will so I disagree with this notion once a person reaches maturity. As a child this does apply, but it's not 100% as an adult. Racist households raise racist children most of the time, and some of those kids grow up and make a concious decision to not be a part of that lifestyle any longer, same with religion, same with politics etc.

I agree with you on this to a point, but some children are raised ( brainwashed) to a point where a choice is not going to happen.

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » June 18, 2003, 12:35 pm

Aranuil wrote:
Adex_Xeda wrote:Many belive that some folks are born gay, yet they still belive however that it is wrong to act on, or satisfy gay impulses.

Sadly that viewpoint doesn't quite fit into your split delineations.
I don't understand what point you're trying to make here. The people who believe it's wrong are stupid.

It's not stupid, it's just a fundamental difference of view. No different than a person on the other side of the globe thinking it's completely fine to have multiple wives, but it being illegal in the states. There are literally thousands of examples I could pull from the air about what different cultures view as right or wrong. The fact is, we are all a product of our habitats, or surroundings, and these govern our belief systems for the most part.

Raistin · Post by **Raistin** » June 18, 2003, 12:37 pm

Being gay isnt a choice?

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » June 18, 2003, 12:42 pm

Raistin wrote:Being gay isnt a choice?

Yes you have a choice between TEH COCK or TEH VAGINA

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » June 18, 2003, 12:42 pm

Cartalas wrote:
Krimson Klaw wrote:
Cartalas wrote:
Xyun wrote:There is no hypocracy. You are making the same mistake Toker made by correlating religion to these different things.

People choose to be Christian, Jewish, Muslim, etc. They do not choose to be white or black, male or female, gay or straight. I discriminate against people's actions, yes! As does every other fucking person on the planet, and they should.

Some people dont choose there religion, Its rammed down there throat.
Cartalas, human beings have free will so I disagree with this notion once a person reaches maturity. As a child this does apply, but it's not 100% as an adult. Racist households raise racist children most of the time, and some of those kids grow up and make a concious decision to not be a part of that lifestyle any longer, same with religion, same with politics etc.
I agree with you on this to a point, but some children are raised ( brainwashed) to a point where a choice is not going to happen.

But you see, the choice WAS made, they chose to stick with what they were raised with. Just because they chose something that you or I did not agree with does not mean that a choice was not made. Free will, we all have it.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » June 18, 2003, 12:49 pm

Krimson Klaw wrote:
Cartalas wrote:
Krimson Klaw wrote:
Cartalas wrote:
Xyun wrote:There is no hypocracy. You are making the same mistake Toker made by correlating religion to these different things.

People choose to be Christian, Jewish, Muslim, etc. They do not choose to be white or black, male or female, gay or straight. I discriminate against people's actions, yes! As does every other fucking person on the planet, and they should.

Some people dont choose there religion, Its rammed down there throat.
Cartalas, human beings have free will so I disagree with this notion once a person reaches maturity. As a child this does apply, but it's not 100% as an adult. Racist households raise racist children most of the time, and some of those kids grow up and make a concious decision to not be a part of that lifestyle any longer, same with religion, same with politics etc.
I agree with you on this to a point, but some children are raised ( brainwashed) to a point where a choice is not going to happen.
But you see, the choice WAS made, they chose to stick with what they were raised with. Just because they chose something that you or I did not agree with does not mean that a choice was not made. Free will, we all have it.

Bah, you win. Its a sensetive subject for me.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » June 18, 2003, 12:58 pm

Krimson Klaw wrote:No different than a person on the other side of the globe thinking it's completely fine to have multiple wives, but it being illegal in the states.

It's less illegal in some states than others. /wave Utah

The point about someone raised under a certain religion not really having a choice in the matter is still valid. It's very hard to choose to turn your back on a part of your upbringing. I know that in a lot of Jewish and Christian households, religion, culture, and history are irrevokably intertwined. So it's not just choosing not to be of the religion, it's rejecting the whole package.

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » June 18, 2003, 1:04 pm

You are arguing my point for me, it's still a CHOICE that they have to make, it just so happens that the two choices (to stay or to leave) carry significantly more weight than the average choice does.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » June 18, 2003, 1:44 pm

masteen wrote:
Krimson Klaw wrote:No different than a person on the other side of the globe thinking it's completely fine to have multiple wives, but it being illegal in the states.
It's less illegal in some states than others. /wave Utah

The point about someone raised under a certain religion not really having a choice in the matter is still valid. It's very hard to choose to turn your back on a part of your upbringing. I know that in a lot of Jewish and Christian households, religion, culture, and history are irrevokably intertwined. So it's not just choosing not to be of the religion, it's rejecting the whole package.

Thats what I was getting at sometimes rejecting a faith choice is rejecting your family, but I can see whr Mr.Klaw is saying its still a choice.