Soriathus Serpentine wrote:As a Wiccan I don't belive I truely fall into any of the proposed voting options and feel kind of offended. Technically Wicca is a "defined" and "recognized" religion by the United States, but it's not an "organized" religion either.
OMG I hope you are joking that you are "offended"
But to answer your question, giving yourself any sort of religious title such as Christian or Wiccan is organized religion. The other option is for people who believe in a higher power but not under the belief system of any particular religion.
What I said was "kind of offended", not really mad, just disagree mainly with the whay you've phrased the poll option. The way you phrased the poll you made it sound like one or the other: 3rd option is "non-organized" and implies those are "non-defined" because of lack of examples. 4th option is "definied" and implies those are "organized" because of the examples you gave.
You see, most "defined" religions are "organized", but most Pagan religions are "defined" and can be labeled but are far from "organized". There is no sinagogs or churches we congregate, most Wiccans are solitary practitioners. The most organized Wiccans ever get is really strict Wiccan's who are in covens.
Last edited by Soriathus Serpentine on April 21, 2003, 2:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Soriathus Serpentine - Epic Luminary of the Scaled Mystics
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For the people screaming about religion being forcefed on you, just take a look at this thread. There are fanatics in everything. No offense, Practice what you "preach".
I do not think all Catholic priests moleste young boys. Those of you who think this are the ones that are brainwashed.
I think you spent too much time thinking about it. Did you want a separate option for "defined" but not "organized" religious beliefs? That would be silly & complicated and then X person would want their own option to precisely detail how defined or organized they think their religion is. Some people who aren't members of "mainstream" religious organizations don't like their religion to be called "organized religion," because they see it as some sort of labeled constriction and they feel it aligns them with Christians. They want to be special and not sound "institutionalized." Wiccans are members of an organized religion, I'm sorry to tell you. Any religion that has a name and even the loosest structure of a belief system, is an organized religion.
I initially was just going to ask do you believe in God and have a yes, no, maybe/I don't know (agnostic) option as I stated before, but wanted to see the disparity between believers of specific religions and those who believe in God but not a particular religion.
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Ok I see your point, again though just disagree with your terminology and therefore not going to vote because I believe I fall into 2 categories, as in non-organized as well as defined.
Soriathus Serpentine - Epic Luminary of the Scaled Mystics
Master of All Trades (See my magelo for trade stats)
Proud Member of Keepers of the Elements Blumgan says, 'If I could bottle his enthusiasm for the game I'd be rich.'
So, if science is the pursuit of knowledge, then how can science have nothing to do with knowing? If you are going to attempt to argue a point at least be consistent about it. Knowledge is about seeking information of a plausible reality. All information is however flawed by either the presenter, the constants, or both.
Knowledge as we understand it will always be skewed as no one has a picture of an absolute truth. If you can give me an absolute truth then I will retract that statement and claim you a wiser man than I.
Pursuit != attainment. Two very different concepts.
With science, we learn constantly. Usually we learn we didn't phrase the question right, or that apples really can be blue rather than whether or not the hyudrogen atom can be split successfully.
Science accepts that there are no absolute truths. Religion states that absolute truth exists, you just can't possibly understand it.
I grew tired of the "Because I said so" argument at about age twelve.
Doesnt science serve the same purpose as religion?
Absolutely not.
Science is the pursuit of knowledge.
Religion is the admitting that you don't know and that it's OK to remain ignorant.
I know that's a bit brutal, but there is a very fundamental difference between the two approaches.
Actually I think specific religions are assuming you are correct---ignoring contrary evidence or conflicting religions and in my opinion...being likely wrong.
Science says..."Hey we don't know everything...let's try to figure it out."
Specific religions say hey I know everything...you are all sinners, repent or you will go to hell.
Not only that but just about every religion out there puts women in the second class. Nearly all make women second to men if not property. If you can't see that this was the result of a MAN not god writing the books in a male dominated society then you are pretty dense.
Elizabeth Stanton said the biggest obstacle to women's suffrage was the Bible.
Let me first say that I'm a practicing Christian (Presbyterian USA). However many of my personal beliefs would probably be condemed by many others in my chosen Religion.
One thing science and the scientific method has taught us is that we don't know everything. We can't figure out exactly when the big bang occured - we can get close but not exact. In atomic physics we have the Hisenberg uncertanity principle, again unable to know exactly where an atomic particle is in relation to space and time.
An earlier arguement in this thread spoke about then end... death. That's it, see ya later etc... VERY existential. I agree that being able to accept death is a powerful thing. However believing that when you are gone your a literally gone is no more "powerful" than believing in a soul. Much of the existential movement in relation to religion centers, at least initially around Nietzche. Myself I prefer Kierkegaard. Just for a moment, and I'm sure the Wiccans would agree with me on this, consider that faith (in something), being able to put rational thinking aside, is truly most important to our advancement. I would also say that it's one of the things that has kept humanity advancing. Think of all the times when rational thinking "proved" something was impossible, only later to be easily disproven.
The previous post directly concerns women's sufferage and the Bible. Only a fool would argue that our culture's primary interperation hasn't treated women as second class citizens. Hell the Southern Baptist Convention just sent documents to all their missionaries for them to sign saying that women have to be subservent to their husbands and that women shouldn't be ministers. WTF is that? Just when it seems like a greater understanding could prevail people freak without the status quo.
I would encourage people to read the New Testament. Don't listen to what any freak'o money hungry televangelist says. Just read the Four Gospels. Often people try to sum up every book in one story. Before doing that read them as separate books written for separate groups of people. Realize that before the foundation of the Roman Catholic Church most, 90%, of all local church leaders were women. Who was the one person who, according to the NT, stayed at the Cross. Not the men, a women - Mary Magdalene. A women who probably played a more important role in the foundation of Christanity than any of us will ever know unless we discover a Gospel in Aramic.
IMHO the "Christanity" we see shoved down peoples throats, the "Christanity" which has alienated so many of the people on this board... has VERY little to do with what Christ said and did on this Earth. Ultimately a persons relationship with God, or his/her personal Religion, is just that PERSONAL. My parents encouraged me to study and understand for myself - make my own decisions. Heh, ultimately leading to many arguments between me and individuals in their Church. I just think one shouldn't discount Christanity because of the misguided sheep following some greedy misguided leader. Read for yourself, understand for yourself then make a decision. It has nothing to do with a Priest, Preacher, Teacher, it has to do with you and God. For me that's the God that sparked the BigBang and the God that knows where atomic particles are truly located.
Of course since I'm not perfect, I could be wrong... but that is what Faith is for...
