Racism is Alive & Well!

[Fizzlewhip]

3) When I obliviate this logic by asking him about Asians (who "aren't from Asia") he THEN changes his story. NOW his issue has nothing to do with geography. He doesn't think race should be referred to at all. Look back at #1. See the complete shift? He still hasn't explained what word Dregor should have used. I guess he wants a big space there?

I think the word you meant was obliterate. Obliviate would be out of context, and make you look silly:

2 entries found for obliviate.
Main Entry: obliviate
Function: noun
Definition: a memory charm or spell in the Harry Potter books that makes one forget



Source: Webster's Millennium™ Dictionary of English, © 2003 Lexico Publishing Group, LLC


Main Entry: obliviate
Function: verb
Definition: to forget



Source: Webster's Millennium™ Dictionary of English, © 2003 Lexico Publishing Group, LLC

So, unless you made him forget, or cast a memory charm on him, i think you meant obliterate.

(the only reason I did this is I thought "Cool! Lalanae is making me look up a word I don't know! Gonna learn something now!"..... and was disappointed that it was a HARRY POTTER reference, and to boot didn't even make since in the context it was used. )
(was serious about the looking up part. NEVER STOP LEARNING)

[Fallanthas]

Race is a non-issue on a thread about racism?

I can't believe anyone is this dense.


If you insist on pigeonholing someone because of their ethnic background, guess what? YOU ARE A RACIST!

If you aren't you have no need of defining terms outside of celebrating your own personal and familial heritage.

I cannot beileve I would have to explain something so simple to an adult.

[Cartalas]

This is for you Fallanthas since you have some trouble with the definition of racism

rac·ism
n.
1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race

Umm the UN definition includes Religion and Political alignment

[Vetiria]

If you insist on pigeonholing someone because of their ethnic background, guess what? YOU ARE A RACIST!

Oh, you mean like your support of racial profiling?

[Fallanthas]

That would depend on your definition or racial profiling.


I don't support the current version, never have. Check the thread history. It's stupid, obfuscating and only serves the purpose of political fools trying to prove a point that does not exist.

If you mean profiling in general as applied to criminal investigation, I support that wholeheartedly. If I am not mistaken, we even have Kyoukan on record as saying that criminal profiling is a scientifically proven method of predicting behavior.


NEXT!

[Sueven]

Dregor: I think a survey of the attitudes of black people is far more relevant than the language used on the website of one organization which is forced to be politically correct by its very nature.

The Black Panthers are called the Black Panthers. This proves that all black people prefer the term black.

That doesn't make any fucking sense. Neither does your argument.

I honestly don't know what term the majority of black people prefer. However, your argument does nothing to sway me whatsoever.

[Spangaloid_PE]

according to the United Negro College Fund, all black people would like to be called negros.

i am being sarcastic.

*edit* added an r

[Spangaloid_PE]

What I don't understand...and what no one here may be able to answer for me is this. Why the hell do black Americans jump all over everyone else for using a word like "nigger" then I here that word tossed around casually by other members of the same background?

FFS, if you don't want people to use it as a slur, don't use the word at all. The other day, a close friend of mine (who happens to be black) described me as "one intense nigger." I'm not black and it wasn't used as a slur, but rather in the second sense of the word that I described above.

Set an example. You don't want that word used? Then don't promote a double standard and don't use it. Don't publish music using that word. Don't make music videos with that word. Don't use the word. Period.

As for being African-American, I'm of the opinion that unless you were born of Africa and immigrated to America, then you're an American. Plain and simple. I'm an American of German and Irish descent. My roots go back to the early 1800's. I'm American, born and bred. Same thing goes for anyone with roots in any country. Doesn't matter to me, they're still American, if they were born here. You want to be American of Asian/African/German/Irish/Indian descent? That's fine. No problem. You want to be Native American? That's cool too.

Enough of the African-American, two-faced bullshit. Stand up, be a man and be an American. Racism does still exist, and it will continue to exist as long as that artifical line is drawn in the sand. By stressing the distinction between African-Americans and the rest of America, all we do is emphasize that line, instead of erasing it.

You live in America. Be an American.

are you sure your friend said nigg"er" or nigg"a"? there is a difference between those 2 words.

[Avestan]

It is rural Georgia. It sucks, but it is hardly representative of the country as a whole. If you look hard enough, you will always be able to find racism, but the wording of this story makes me think that we are going to have to start using separate bathrooms again soon.

[Vaemas]

are you sure your friend said nigg"er" or nigg"a"? there is a difference between those 2 words.

No, there is no difference.

[Spangaloid_PE]

are you sure your friend said nigg"er" or nigg"a"? there is a difference between those 2 words.

No, there is no difference.

http://www.bet.com/articles/0,1048,c1gb ... -1,00.html

the messsage board below the article has a huge discussion on it.

imo, both should not be acceptable, however i feel there is a thin line between them both.

there is one thing i notice however...the black people of the discussion refer to other black people as, get this, black people.

[Vaemas]

Personally I see no difference. I don't want other people to refer to me as a "cracker" so I don't refer to myself or my friends as "crackas."

"Nigga" is no different from "nigger" to me. Don't want me to call you one, don't call yourself one. Its semantics. Words have different meanings, some good and some bad, but I fail to see anything beneficial in using the word "nigger" even if you pronounce it "nigga" to refer to your buddy.

Its an ugly word. Cut and dry.

[Krimson Klaw]

Personally I see no difference. I don't want other people to refer to me as a "cracker" so I don't refer to myself or my friends as "crackas."

"Nigga" is no different from "nigger" to me. Don't want me to call you one, don't call yourself one. Its semantics. Words have different meanings, some good and some bad, but I fail to see anything beneficial in using the word "nigger" even if you pronounce it "nigga" to refer to your buddy.

Its an ugly word. Cut and dry.

Exactly. That's the point most educated black people are trying to convey to our youth. It's NOT acceptable, no matter which ending you place on the word, and whether you are white or black when speaking it.

[Xyun]

I agree that the term nigger and even nigga were ugly words. However, since meanings of words change over time, I don't think as much negative connotation is associated with the word now as it was before. In a rich white suburbian town called Edmond, we got white high school girls calling each other nigga. I fail to see how, when used in this way, this term could be considered a compliment or an insult.

To me, it is a word that has lost its umph.

[Krimson Klaw]

try telling that to some of your black friends and see if they agree with you. I am willing to bet not all of them will. When I hear a black person using it against another black person, I feel shame. When I hear a white person use it against a black person, I feel hate. When I hear a white person use it against another white person, I think moron. But that's just me.

[Mplor]

I suspect that the ppl arguing that everyone born in the US should be called an "American" also think that the children of illegal immigrants to this country (born here) should still be called "Mexican" or whatever. Those who do betray their claim to being motivated by equality. It's one of many masks for the face of modern racism.

Equality in name is a thin veneer for assimilation. Those who espouse assimilation seem to believe that the "other" should embrace the old, and it never occurs to them to consider embracing the new. Sure, we are all Americans, but we are also defined by our unique heritage and culture.

I hate to bring up the Nazi theme, but how many of you realize that one of the greatest arguments of the pre-WW2 anti-semite was that the Jews refused to assimilate. They lived in their own communities, married and did business within them. They called themselves "Jews": German Jews, Polish Jews. Those who simply called themselves "Germans" resented it. Please tell me we are more tolerant than the fascists.

The thing that makes America great is that we are allowed to be ourselves, to be different. This includes celebrating our unique heritages, our identifying cultural traits. We are free to be both American and African, American and Chinese, American and Cajun, American and Texan, American and whatever you choose to invent for yourself.

[Lalanae]

Lalanae: You're using as many diversionary tactics as they are. Instead of focusing on the primary issue, you're making issues out of tiny little issues like "which attitude is more racist" and "is nazi a race."

While you're arguing these minor points, you're ignoring major points. Fizzlewhip provided an article and concrete data which seem to refute your assertion that the Black community prefers the term "African-American," among other issues. Why don't you respond to this? You completely ignored this point, even though it's the closest thing to serious debate you're going to find here.

I want you to respond, because I know you're intelligent, and I'm actually curious to see how this discussion would have evolved had you not entirely ignored it.

Sueven, AS I HAVE SAID ALREADY, my issue was with Spang's logic. I don't care if they are called black or African American, but HE DOES. Why? His logic is that they aren't from Africa, so I ask What about Asians?

HE is the one who has his panties all in a bunch about a universally used racial modifier, not me. And to top it off when I asked them WHAT he thinks they should be called, he hee-haws around and says "people" instead of saying "black."

I'm not involved in a discussion of which is more appropriate because I DONT CARE and never said I cared. I will say that every African American I've met refer to their race as African American for the most part, so I try to use their same discourse.

You dweebs have invented a nice little argument that I'm taking no place in, yet you like to imagine I am. If you are such a silly twat as to get all bent out of shape over "African American" being used rather than "black", or vice versa, then you have bigger issues.

When discussing races, AS IN THE ORIGINAL ARTICLE, a racial modifier MUST be used. How many time to I have to say that? You people are so stupid that you think an article discussing racial issues (i.e. RACIAL DISCOURSE) could not say "black" "white" "African American" whatever and make any sense??

[Spangaloid_PE]

1) Spang got bent out of shape over the term African American used in Dregor's post. That means he thinks another term should be used. What then? If Dregor said "people" it would have made NO sense.

i don't think african-american should be used because not all black people are from africa and not all people from africa are black. in this case i have to ues race, cause as you've said just saying "people" would make no damn sense.

[Vaemas]

I suspect that the ppl arguing that everyone born in the US should be called an "American" also think that the children of illegal immigrants to this country (born here) should still be called "Mexican" or whatever. Those who do betray their claim to being motivated by equality. It's one of many masks for the face of modern racism.

Mplor, children of illegal immigrants, born in America, are American citizens. Rules are rules. Born here, you get the rights of an American. I don't agree with how it comes about, but I'll be the last one to say that they (born citizens) aren't Americans.

Your point may be valid in certain locations (especially cities bordering Mexico), however I believe your accusation is unfounded. You can't have it both ways. Anyone who attempts to argue from the point you describe above is going to get their ass handed to them in a debate. Its a non-defensible position and you would have to be extremely ignorant to even attept to argue such a point.

I hate to bring up the Nazi theme, but how many of you realize that one of the greatest arguments of the pre-WW2 anti-semite was that the Jews refused to assimilate. They lived in their own communities, married and did business within them. They called themselves "Jews": German Jews, Polish Jews. Those who simply called themselves "Germans" resented it. Please tell me we are more tolerant than the fascists.

What you are missing here is this. Black Americans are looking for equality. They aren't looking to establish and maintain their own seperate communities as the Jews did back in the 1940s. Equating America with Extreme Right-wing Nazi Germany is a huge leap. I don't resent anyone who wants to call themselves African-Americans. What I resent is someone who wants special privledges and at the same time be like everyone else. That's being hypocritical.

The thing that makes America great is that we are allowed to be ourselves, to be different. This includes celebrating our unique heritages, our identifying cultural traits. We are free to be both American and African, American and Chinese, American and Cajun, American and Texan, American and whatever you choose to invent for yourself.

Feel free to celebrate your heritage. I'm all for that. Roots are important. But don't think that because your heritage is something other than mine that you are "entitled" to more than any other American. Play the "race" card and you're simply asking for trouble. I'll be the first one to admit that the playing field isn't level, but I stand by my statement above. Constant reminders about the color of someone's skin, about a history of oppression is simply going to cause people to treat you differently.

[Spangaloid_PE]

If you want to call people "black" fine, go ahead. But to say that "African American" is wrong or "stupid" when the community itself would prefer to be labeled as such is pretty closed-minded. To get indignant about using it also shows that you have some personal issue invested in it...mild racism perhaps? Doesn't take a PhD in Psychology to recognize that.

who's really the racist one here? you're the one calling people Nazi's.

anyways...Fizzle pretty much answered the prior question as i would have, cept i would have said uh and um OMGIAMRETARDEDCAUSEALOTISTWOWORDS and it wouldn't have made any sense, cause as we all know, i'm a dumb fuck.

now what do i call people of different races? i call em people, woman, chick, dude, guy, man, etc...

[Fallanthas]

I suspect that the ppl arguing that everyone born in the US should be called an "American" also think that the children of illegal immigrants to this country (born here) should still be called "Mexican" or whatever. Those who do betray their claim to being motivated by equality. It's one of many masks for the face of modern racism.

100% absofuckinglutely wrong.


I cannot believe you actually read this thread and came to that conclusion.



A person born in American is an American, period. What you and a few others on this thread refuse to see is that race means jack and shit in ANY public discourse in this country, period.

If you believe differently, then you are the racist, not I.

Sueven, AS I HAVE SAID ALREADY, my issue was with Spang's logic. I don't care if they are called black or African American, but HE DOES. Why? His logic is that they aren't from Africa, so I ask What about Asians?

I KNOW you are not this dense, Lalanae. Why do you insist on trying to twist the argument. Spang didn't say he objected to a specific label, he said he objected to LABELS. Don't make a fuck which one you use, if you have to label someone by their race you are WRONG. Get it that time?

[Mplor]

I suspect that the ppl arguing that everyone born in the US should be called an "American" also think that the children of illegal immigrants to this country (born here) should still be called "Mexican" or whatever. Those who do betray their claim to being motivated by equality. It's one of many masks for the face of modern racism.

100% absofuckinglutely wrong.

I cannot believe you actually read this thread and came to that conclusion.

Why does it seem so unlikely? It looks to me like those standing on your position are often the ones vomiting ignorant, nationalistic vitriol into every thread over here.

A person born in American is an American, period. What you and a few others on this thread refuse to see is that race means jack and shit in ANY public discourse in this country, period.

If you believe differently, then you are the racist, not I.

Ah, nice try. In fact, race is the 900lb gorilla sitting in your suburban living room, which you willfully ignore. Perhaps you mean that you wish race wasn't a politicized issue. Well, I do too. Unfortunately, it's about 200 years too late for that in this country.

Yours is a pecular mix of idealism and ignorance. Our mutual history is still too recent for us to decide it's all "even" now. Race is a factor in this country. Denying it only allows it to fester in dark corners like bumfuck Georgia.

Mp

[Sueven]

Sueven, AS I HAVE SAID ALREADY, my issue was with Spang's logic. I don't care if they are called black or African American, but HE DOES. Why? His logic is that they aren't from Africa, so I ask What about Asians?

HE is the one who has his panties all in a bunch about a universally used racial modifier, not me. And to top it off when I asked them WHAT he thinks they should be called, he hee-haws around and says "people" instead of saying "black."

I'm not involved in a discussion of which is more appropriate because I DONT CARE and never said I cared. I will say that every African American I've met refer to their race as African American for the most part, so I try to use their same discourse.

You dweebs have invented a nice little argument that I'm taking no place in, yet you like to imagine I am. If you are such a silly twat as to get all bent out of shape over "African American" being used rather than "black", or vice versa, then you have bigger issues.

When discussing races, AS IN THE ORIGINAL ARTICLE, a racial modifier MUST be used. How many time to I have to say that? You people are so stupid that you think an article discussing racial issues (i.e. RACIAL DISCOURSE) could not say "black" "white" "African American" whatever and make any sense??

Good for you. I didn't say anything about Spangaloid. I asked why you didn't respond to Fizzlewhip, when what he posted was a direct response to what you posted, and seems pertinent to the topic at hand. I didn't ask for you to continue ranting about Spangaloid's argument. In fact, I can't even tell how much of your post is directed at me. I would assume that none of it is, because none of it has fucking anything to do with what I wrote, except I see my name at the top of it.

To summarize: You said that the (black / african american) community prefers to be referred to as african americans. Fizzlewhip posted information that seems to contradict your statement. You ignored said information.

It is of course your right to respond to whatever arguments you please. All I'm saying is that when you post this:

Why don't you answer the question I've asked? You keep skipping over them because you CANT answer them. You are using weak diversionary tactics by throwing questions at me without answering the ones I posed.

Thats BAD debate. At least I address issues posed. When you can learn to answer my questions, then I'll address yours.

And then ignore points that you don't seem to be able to answer, and don't address issues posed, your debate doesn't look particularly good.

[Fallanthas]

Point one:

Why does it seem so unlikely? It looks to me like those standing on your position are often the ones vomiting ignorant, nationalistic vitriol into every thread over here.

What country do you live in? In mine, we celebrate diversity. There is no contradiction in being patriotic and being colorblind. In the United States we have this saying "All men are created equal...".

Mplor, if you want to believe I am a racist, then all I can do is send a hearty fuck you your way. I think it's fairly clear from just this small exchange which of us is dwelling on race.

Simply put, I don't give a fuck if your skin carries lime-green polka dots or if you worship tribbles. If you do, then the problem lies between your ears, not those who refuse to accept your outlook on the subject.

[Mplor]

Mplor, if you want to believe I am a racist, then all I can do is send a hearty fuck you your way. I think it's fairly clear from just this small exchange which of us is dwelling on race.

It doesn't sound to me like you are racist at all. It's unfortunate that your position is shared on these boards by many who discredit it with their obvious ignorance.

I do, however, think that your blind eye to the fact that race and racism are real issues in American public and private life will not contribute to solving the problem.

Mp

[Fallanthas]

I do, however, think that your blind eye to the fact that race and racism are real issues in American public and private life will not contribute to solving the problem.

In the end, a blind eye is the only thing that will resolve the race issue.

Large amounts of peer pressure on those who refuse to ignore race helps the cause along. Hence my posts in this thread.

Good day, sir.

[kyoukan]

Yes ignoring the problem will make it go away. How intelligent*

*stupid

[Fallanthas]

No, ignoring fucknuts who fail to see that irrelevancy is the answer might make them go away.

Well, I can dream.