Government Control of Smoking in Bars and Restaurants

[Fash]

If only it were that easy...

If the hospital provided a smoking area with a place to put the butts, I bet there wouldn't be much of an issue!

Employees are not sheep... They are not your kids... You do not own them or control what they do.

[Aslanna]

If the hospital provided a smoking area with a place to put the butts, I bet there wouldn't be much of an issue!

Employees are not sheep... They are not your kids... You do not own them or control what they do.

No but you can put policies in place to let them know what is expected. If they can't follow them then they can find a new job. Isn't that the same argument that the anti-smoking ban people have adopted? If employees don't like working someplace that allows smoking they can go work somewhere else. Funny how that argument is used for each side.

And no it wouldn't be much less of an issue. Most smokers are dirty creatures that like to throw their butts on the ground. Where I work they have placed receptacles across the street where people smoke.. There are still butts all over the place. Because it's cool to flick it down and smash it with your shoe apparently.

[Xatrei]

And no it wouldn't be much less of an issue. Most smokers are dirty creatures that like to throw their butts on the ground. Where I work they have placed receptacles across the street where people smoke.. There are still butts all over the place. Because it's cool to flick it down and smash it with your shoe apparently.

Yeah! I've never understood why people do this. I'm baffled by it when I see dozens of cigarette butts laying around on the ground, just a few feet away from a receptacle or a trash can. When I smoked, I always used the receptacles when they were available. If one wasn't around, I always knocked the burning end off, and put the butt in my pocket until I was around a trash can or whatever. It drives me nuts when I see people tossing butts out of the window of their car, throwing them on the ground in parking lots or outside the entrance to a building or wherever.

[Sylvus]

Shrug, my employer has 3 designated areas for smoking with those tall ashtrays near each one and there is nary a butt on the ground. I'm out there a couple times a day, and I never see anyone use anything other than the ashtray.

I think you'll find that if a place is reasonable about providing a place for people to smoke, smokers will be reasonable about where they put their butts. And with that, I'm going outside to burn one!

[Funkmasterr]

Shrug, my employer has 3 designated areas for smoking with those tall ashtrays near each one and there is nary a butt on the ground. I'm out there a couple times a day, and I never see anyone use anything other than the ashtray.

I think you'll find that if a place is reasonable about providing a place for people to smoke, smokers will be reasonable about where they put their butts. And with that, I'm going outside to burn one!

Same here.. The ground outside the building I work in is not littered with butts at all, and I work in a large building (40 floors) and there are usually quite a few smokers outside. Like I said before, if you make them feel like they are being persecuted over the issue, they aren't going to go out of their way to play nice either.

[Noysyrump]

I've never smoked, drank, or done anything like that.

Damn Fair, that explains a lot...



Yeh addiction to ciggarettes is a funny thing. I started smoking regularly no more than 5 years ago. Now it's 2 pack a day average, and when cash is real tight, I'd rather go hungry then do without ciggarettes. If I go longer than 2 hours, someone is likely to get hurt if they look at me funny. Thankfully, as an automechanic, few shops care if I have a cigg in my mouth (even while working on fuel systems!).



Edit: OMGIAMRETARDEDCAUSEALOTISTWOWORDS just isn't funny anymore....

[Winnow]

Smoking (nicotine) is pure addiction. The government should do what it can to help people rid themselves of the addiction but also do whatever it can to protect those that aren't addicted and don't want to be anywhere near the harmful side affects of smoke.

If people are that hard up for nicotine, they can take a pill or patch, etc to ease their suffering while being around the rest of the population. (hell take a needle and shoot up right into your bloodstream if you want) Addiction to a known harmful chemical can't be used as an excuse and will always make a poor argument. Smoke in you home, in your cabins and cars. Again, I'd want the exact same restrictions placed on Pot.

[Sueven]

Employees are not sheep... They are not your kids... You do not own them or control what they do.

Fash,

Can you explain to me why a restaurant's decision to allow or disallow smoking is a matter of free choice, while an employer's decision to allow or disallow smoking is not?

[Fash]

Employees are not sheep... They are not your kids... You do not own them or control what they do.

Fash,

Can you explain to me why a restaurant's decision to allow or disallow smoking is a matter of free choice, while an employer's decision to allow or disallow smoking is not?

The correct comparison would be if the restaurant refused to serve you because they saw you having a smoke across the street.

I don't smoke in the office, obviously... but it's none of their fucking business what I do when I walk out the doors.

[Fairweather Pure]

I'd rather go hungry then do without ciggarettes.

I remember being a teenager at a friend's house around dinner time. We were all starved but being teenagers, we had little or no money. Hot N Now was our dinner of choice for this very reason. Anyway, we're getting our orders together and sending one person out to get it, when one of my friends (who had been complaining about being hungry for half the damn night) only ordered a single cheeseburger. He said he didn't have any money for food. I pointed out the fact that he had at least a few bucks in change on his speaker in his room and he said "no, that's ciggarette money". Hell, I was going to buy his dinner until he said that! Anyway, odd to see you type that because that made quite an impression on me in my teen years.

Of that group of 8 friends, 4 still smoke at least a pack a day. The other 4 stopped years ago, some well over a decade. I don't see the ones who currently smoke ever stopping.

[Sueven]

I don't smoke in the office, obviously... but it's none of their fucking business what I do when I walk out the doors.

What if they just say that you can't smoke at all during business hours, including off-premises smoke breaks?

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

I don't smoke in the office, obviously... but it's none of their fucking business what I do when I walk out the doors.

What if they just say that you can't smoke at all during business hours, including off-premises smoke breaks?

They can't. He gets breaks. He can do whatever he likes on his time. Please stop supporting the government getting bigger and taking away our freedoms.

[Funkmasterr]

I don't smoke in the office, obviously... but it's none of their fucking business what I do when I walk out the doors.

What if they just say that you can't smoke at all during business hours, including off-premises smoke breaks?

They can't. He gets breaks. He can do whatever he likes on his time. Please stop supporting the government getting bigger and taking away our freedoms.

That's about it.. The day my manager tries to tell me what I can do off company grounds is the day I laugh in his face.

[Nick]

Jesus, some of the non smokers in this thread really do sound like pompous little pricks. Bill Hicks come back, your country needs you.

[Funkmasterr]

Jesus, some of the non smokers in this thread really do sound like pompous little pricks. Bill Hicks come back, your country needs you.

I will see your "pompous little pricks", and raise you a "condescending douchebag".

[Nick]

its a deal

[Sueven]

I'm just asking a question.

If your employer can set a dress code (ie, don't come in looking like a slob) why can't they set a smell code (ie, don't come in stinking like an ashtray)? I doubt anybody has time to shower every time they run out for a cigarette.

I am opposed to employers controlling most aspects of off-the-job employee activity, including smoking. I'm not sure what I think about employers preventing employees from smoking between punch-in and punch-out time.

[Boogahz]

I'm just asking a question.

If your employer can set a dress code (ie, don't come in looking like a slob) why can't they set a smell code (ie, don't come in stinking like an ashtray)? I doubt anybody has time to shower every time they run out for a cigarette.

I am opposed to employers controlling most aspects of off-the-job employee activity, including smoking. I'm not sure what I think about employers preventing employees from smoking between punch-in and punch-out time.

Mine has both. I believe the definition on the smell part is something like "no overbearing scents." I know of at least one person sent home to shower (or whatever they chose to do) to get rid of something that was bothering neighbors. It wasn't smoke, but I would imagine that it could be used to address that too.

[Sueven]

They can't. He gets breaks. He can do whatever he likes on his time. Please stop supporting the government getting bigger and taking away our freedoms.

Also: jesus fucking christ this is stupid. I'm talking about PRIVATE EMPLOYERS, not the government.

[Spang]

Smokers should be bought and sold as slaves to all the nonsmokers and ex-smokers.

[Drolgin Steingrinder]

They can't. He gets breaks. He can do whatever he likes on his time. Please stop supporting the government getting bigger and taking away our freedoms.

So The Freedom To Smoke is a right, but there's no right to privacy? You're actually jumping up about the government taking away the right to smoke during breaktime but you've staunchly supported every single infringement on privacy that your current administration has passed...that's ... well, that's something, that's for sure.

[Bubba Grizz]

Sorry if this has been posted already. I am too lazy to read through all three pages.

First, I voted to keep government out of our business and I am a non smoker.

I don't believe it is the responsibility of the government to make all our choices for us. That is too scary. Bars are meant to be places where you can drink and smoke. I personally don't like the stench that clings to me when I have been in a bar with smoking but it was MY choice to go in there.

Here is something I found that has a lot of interesting information in it presented in a cool way if you like these guys.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9e4T8myUAXI (Penn & Teller's Bullshit dealing with Second Hand Smoke)

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

They can't. He gets breaks. He can do whatever he likes on his time. Please stop supporting the government getting bigger and taking away our freedoms.

So The Freedom To Smoke is a right, but there's no right to privacy? You're actually jumping up about the government taking away the right to smoke during breaktime but you've staunchly supported every single infringement on privacy that your current administration has passed...that's ... well, that's something, that's for sure.

Don't be so broad. What you say is not true. I have supported many parts of the Patriot Act, because they were temporary and a necessary response to 9/11. My hope, is that they have greatly improved the communication between agencies over the past 7 years since 9/11. I hope as the Patriot Act runs out, this new greater interconnectivity between the agencies helps reduce the risk of another attack on our soil. Unfortunately, there will never be 100% prevention, we can only do our best. Political squabbles and media insanity will constantly make it hard for them to protect us, but that goes with the territory.

[Metanis]

I used to feel like Bubba. But I've come to realize that people can't be trusted to act in their own self-interest. I think the smoking bans are great. I think they ought to just outright ban tobacco at the federal level.

Also, I would strongly advocate the government and businesses do much more to combat alcohol abuse. A Breathalyzer should be installed right next to the timeclock in most places of employment. In fact, they should make new machines that check for even trace amounts of any bad, illegal, or controlled substances and if you don't pass you go home without pay. 3 strikes and you are out of employment. Then us clean folks don't have to carry the load for the slackers. Our businesses will be more profitable and fun and we can share in the good times.

I think we should actively enlist MADD (Mothers Against Drunk Driving) and similar organizations to come up with a list of substances we need to avoid in order to maintain good citizenship and gainful employment.

The world would be a better, more productive place if the addicted losers were relegated to an underworld status. Kind of like they did with lepers through much of history.

[Fairweather Pure]

I used to feel like Bubba. But I've come to realize that people can't be trusted to act in their own self-interest. I think the smoking bans are great. I think they ought to just outright ban tobacco at the federal level.

Also, I would strongly advocate the government and businesses do much more to combat alcohol abuse. A Breathalyzer should be installed right next to the timeclock in most places of employment. In fact, they should make new machines that check for even trace amounts of any bad, illegal, or controlled substances and if you don't pass you go home without pay. 3 strikes and you are out of employment. Then us clean folks don't have to carry the load for the slackers. Our businesses will be more profitable and fun and we can share in the good times.

I think we should actively enlist MADD (Mothers Against Drunk Driving) and similar organizations to come up with a list of substances we need to avoid in order to maintain good citizenship and gainful employment.

The world would be a better, more productive place if the addicted losers were relegated to an underworld status. Kind of like they did with lepers through much of history.

I agree, because prohibition has been historically proven to work on all levels, weakening the criminals and strengthening society.

AND TODAY IS OPPOSITE DAY

[Daboohk]

Here is something I found that has a lot of interesting information in it presented in a cool way if you like these guys.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9e4T8myUAXI (Penn & Teller's Bullshit dealing with Second Hand Smoke)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrub3dt7 ... ed&search= -> Updated

[Fash]

I used to feel like Bubba. But I've come to realize that people can't be trusted to act in their own self-interest. I think the smoking bans are great. I think they ought to just outright ban tobacco at the federal level.

Also, I would strongly advocate the government and businesses do much more to combat alcohol abuse. A Breathalyzer should be installed right next to the timeclock in most places of employment. In fact, they should make new machines that check for even trace amounts of any bad, illegal, or controlled substances and if you don't pass you go home without pay. 3 strikes and you are out of employment. Then us clean folks don't have to carry the load for the slackers. Our businesses will be more profitable and fun and we can share in the good times.

I think we should actively enlist MADD (Mothers Against Drunk Driving) and similar organizations to come up with a list of substances we need to avoid in order to maintain good citizenship and gainful employment.

The world would be a better, more productive place if the addicted losers were relegated to an underworld status. Kind of like they did with lepers through much of history.

I hope you're joking, because this is a recipe for disaster. Plenty of 'clean folks' are total morons (see: mirror) and plenty of 'addicted losers' are far more productive than you. Grats on trying to push your own morality on everyone else, though, your religious leaders would be proud.

[Noysyrump]

I spent all day cleaning my rifle yesterday. I dare some politician to ban smoking now...

[Aslanna]

I spent all day cleaning my rifle yesterday. I dare some politician to ban smoking now...

Why is that? You'd think you'd want a clean smoke-free rifle.

[Al]

Smoking (nicotine) is pure addiction. The government should do what it can to help people rid themselves of the addiction but also do whatever it can to protect those that aren't addicted and don't want to be anywhere near the harmful side affects of smoke.

My only problem is with the government stepping in and telling business owners they are not allowed to smoke in their own building. If they want to curtail smoking, enact legislation that works against smoking, not against business owners. NYS enacted a ban several years ago, and today you can still smoke in every bar in town. It isn't because they haven't been fined. It is because all the bar owners smoke, all the employees smoke, and most of the patrons smoke. Who gave the state the authority to step in and say you can't smoke in a bar, but it is OK to smoke in your house while holding your newborn. When that kid has asthma and is living on healthcare for the rest of his life while some barkeep is paying $1000 fines because he likes to have a cigarette, and the government cares more about the cigarette than the rising asthma rate, we need to change something. Smoking is terrible. Smoking in a bar full of adults should not be illegal, at least as long as it is legal to smoke in my own house. Work on the underlying issue. Cure the infection if you want to stop the fever.

[masteen]

I just wanted to clarify something. Banning smoking in restaurants isn't really a problem. People shouldn't have to smell that shit when they're trying to eat. But banning smoking in bars is another matter, for several reasons. Many people who like to go out drinking, also like to smoke. It's also part of the social ritual; bum a light from a cute girl, strike up a conversation from there, ect.

And let's face it, most of the people who get pissy about smoking in public aren't the type who go to bars on a regular basis anyway. Betty Soccermom and her hubby John haven't seen the inside of a pub since college, and the smoking ban won't make them any more likely to do so. But Crazy Shannon and her whore crew, well they ARE less likely to go someplace that they can't smoke, and those bitches go out every weekend.

[Psyloche]

I just wanted to clarify something. Banning smoking in restaurants isn't really a problem. People shouldn't have to smell that shit when they're trying to eat. But banning smoking in bars is another matter, for several reasons. Many people who like to go out drinking, also like to smoke. It's also part of the social ritual; bum a light from a cute girl, strike up a conversation from there, ect.

And let's face it, most of the people who get pissy about smoking in public aren't the type who go to bars on a regular basis anyway. Betty Soccermom and her hubby John haven't seen the inside of a pub since college, and the smoking ban won't make them any more likely to do so. But Crazy Shannon and her whore crew, well they ARE less likely to go someplace that they can't smoke, and those bitches go out every weekend.

I voted that I didn't care if the government regulated it, but I would like to point out that having a cigarette after a meal was one of the better cigarettes back when I smoked. I'd say that it was a pretty normal social ritual for me and any of my smoking friends.

The only reason I say I don't care if the government regulated it, is probably because whenever I went to a non-smoking bar/restaurant when I did smoke, I simply waited til we left or just didn't go back. I found places that allowed my habit, or I just dealt with it. I realized there could be some pretty heavy consequences to people around me when I did smoke, so it didn't bother me when I was asked not to do it around others.

Edit: Actually after looking at it, apparently I misclicked my choice anyway!

[Trek]

In Reno/Sparks you can no longer smoke if the establishment serves food. The arguement was because people take their kids to bar/grills for some stupid ass reason so there shouldnt be any smoking there. This pretty much forced places to ban smoking or stop serving food, the lines are drawn and I lost a few places that no longer serve food that I liked and others serve food but are not smoke filled the way I like my bars.

I am a former smoker who really doesnt care if people smoke or not, I dont like it in resturants at all....but I dont consider bars that serve food, resturants.

[Winnow]

In Reno/Sparks you can no longer smoke if the establishment serves food. The arguement was because people take their kids to bar/grills for some stupid ass reason so there shouldnt be any smoking there.

Why don't the bars that serve food make their establishment for 21 and over only so that way they can serve food without the child excuse? I want smoking banned in all public places but if I was a smoker, I'd try that approach.

[Trek]

In Reno/Sparks you can no longer smoke if the establishment serves food. The arguement was because people take their kids to bar/grills for some stupid ass reason so there shouldnt be any smoking there.

Why don't the bars that serve food make their establishment for 21 and over only so that way they can serve food without the child excuse? I want smoking banned in all public places but if I was a smoker, I'd try that approach.

Wow, perhaps you should lobby for them. I bet they never thought of that

[Winnow]

Wow, perhaps you should lobby for them. I bet they never thought of that

There must not be too many smart lobbyists still smoking!