I've been a vegetarian for two days.

Post by **pyrella** » December 14, 2011, 7:36 pm

I just made this shit up - Pyrella

Dakanaf · Post by **Dakanaf** » December 14, 2011, 7:37 pm

I don't care if you fuckers eat dead animals. -Spang

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » December 14, 2011, 7:38 pm

A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality.
John Lennon

Spang · Post by **Spang** » December 14, 2011, 7:52 pm

Dakanaf wrote:I don't care if you fuckers eat dead animals. -Spang

That's true, I don't care if you barbaric fuckers eat dead animals, the rotting flesh and fat of dead animals. It's the inaccurate bullshit that you people continue to spew in this thread that I care about.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » December 14, 2011, 7:55 pm

I don't eat rotting meat.

Doesn't matter though. Vegans aren't really people anyway, much like cyclists and bus drivers.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » December 14, 2011, 7:57 pm

Even when you're the only one talking, you're wrong.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » December 14, 2011, 8:01 pm

Canelek wrote:I don't eat rotting meat.

If you eat animals you do.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » December 14, 2011, 8:21 pm

Spang wrote:
Canelek wrote:I don't eat rotting meat.
If you eat animals you do.

What do you think is happening to your veggies after you kill them by slicing them from their living growths?

You really are a vegitable.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » December 14, 2011, 8:39 pm

Winnow wrote:What do you think is happening to your veggies after you kill them by slicing them from their living growths?

They're rotting, just like the flesh and fat of dead animals. But unlike animals, vegetables are not sentient creatures.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » December 14, 2011, 9:17 pm

Sentient implies self-awareness. I've said this before, I think. You sure like to slightly alter word definitions and sometimes misuse completely to make your pseudo-point.

And it's not rotting, it is being seared to perfection, with nice grill marks. Dry-aging is far superior to standard steak preparation. You shouldn't feel too bad though for not being able to cook--most people just end up trying harder or going out to dinner instead of being driven to veganism due to rape-fantasy guilt.

Crap, I am arguing with a non-person again. Damn cyclists.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » December 14, 2011, 9:44 pm

Canelek wrote:Sentient implies self-awareness. I've said this before, I think. You sure like to slightly alter word definitions and sometimes misuse completely to make your pseudo-point.

The animals that you people eat (cows, pigs, chickens, etc.) are sentient creatures. Just as sentient as cats and dogs, which are commonly kept as pets and protected under the law in the United States from torture and slaughter.

Lynks · Post by **Lynks** » December 14, 2011, 10:06 pm

Some would argue that trees are sentient too but that doesn't stop you from raping them and eating their babies.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » December 14, 2011, 10:11 pm

Spang wrote:
Canelek wrote:Sentient implies self-awareness. I've said this before, I think. You sure like to slightly alter word definitions and sometimes misuse completely to make your pseudo-point.
The animals that you people eat (cows, pigs, chickens, etc.) are sentient creatures. Just as sentient as cats and dogs, which are commonly kept as pets and protected under the law in the United States from torture and slaughter.

There's nothing wrong with eating dogs, cats, etc either if people want to, in fact:

The Washington Times

Wednesday, November 30, 2011

President Obama last month quietly signed into law a spending bill that restores the American horse-slaughter industry, just a few months after a government investigation said the ban on slaughtering was backfiring.

Awwww

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » December 14, 2011, 10:16 pm

They don't rape trees. They simply try to make sweet sweet love with them.

They partially rape field mice and the like, and certainly fantasize about raping cattle. It is all a rather wonky.

Ever see a squirrel get shot through a wheel well? That shit is AWESOME! Weeeeeeeeeeee

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » December 14, 2011, 11:31 pm

Spang wrote:cats and dogs, which are commonly kept as pets and protected under the law in the United States from torture and slaughter.

They work, fend for themselves or get eaten in most of the world and historically did until recently here too.

"Pet" animals are a luxury item for the wealthy and food secure, just as much as TV or a car is. The Disney-fication of them as sentient beings and all the other crap that's arisen from it is simply silly*. Which doesn't mean I support torture of them or any other animal, using a normal definition of the term.

Not on my menu but dog is supposed to be quite tasty, I've probably eaten it. Would assume cat would be a bit funky.

Every time you murder a vegetable the celery god twists the head off a kitten.

*To me, you're free to believe whatever you'd like.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » December 15, 2011, 11:15 am

Aabidano wrote:The Disney-fication of them as sentient beings and all the other crap that's arisen from it is simply silly*.

Animals have always been sentient. A lot of things have always been. Like the earth being round. We didn't always think it was round, but it was. And it didn't take some fictitious nonsense to make it round. People being born gay, as another example. That wasn't always known. But even when we didn't know, people were being born gay. We got smarter, we figured it out. And we'll continue to get smarter and figure things out. We've already figured out that animals are sentient creatures. We've already figured out that global warming is real and that God isn't.

But that doesn't prevent people from believing otherwise. People are free to believe whatever they want. Just as you people are free to believe that the animals that live short, miserable, tortured lives, before being slaughtered for your meals were not sentient. That they had no ability to feel, that they didn't suffer. That the loud, shrieking noises a bull makes as its horns are being ripped off of its fucking head isn't because it's in pain, because you believe that animals are incapable of feeling pain. That animals are incapable of sentience. But having a belief doesn't make it true.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » December 15, 2011, 12:33 pm

Who is eating bull horns? Whoever it is needs to stop. That's not even food!

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » December 15, 2011, 12:40 pm

Gary Francione also bases his abolitionist theory of animal rights, which differs significantly from Singer's, on sentience. He asserts that "all sentient beings, humans or nonhuman, have one right: the basic right not to be treated as the property of others."

I hope you've never owned a pet.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » December 15, 2011, 12:46 pm

Aslanna wrote:Who is eating bull horns? Whoever it is needs to stop. That's not even food!

No one, as far as I know. But the horns of bulls in factory farms are routinely ripped off of their heads.

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » December 15, 2011, 12:56 pm

With all the violence, rape and other awful things happening against humans (you know, the animals from your very same genus), the well-being of the delicious animals we eat should be a distant concern.

Why such loopy priorities, oh malnourished one?

miir · Post by **miir** » December 15, 2011, 1:01 pm

He's not malnourished, he's 'differently nourished'
He's also delicious/flavour-challenged.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » December 15, 2011, 1:11 pm

Leonaerd wrote:Why such loopy priorities, oh malnourished one?

Stopping eating animals is really easy to do. It's also possible to stop eating animals while still giving a shit about other things.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » December 15, 2011, 2:29 pm

Spang wrote:
Aslanna wrote:Who is eating bull horns? Whoever it is needs to stop. That's not even food!
No one, as far as I know. But the horns of bulls in factory farms are routinely ripped off of their heads.

Routinely? While they are alive? Can we get some sort of statistics or other science facts on that?

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » December 15, 2011, 2:34 pm

Boogahz wrote:Even when you're the only one talking, you're wrong.

Truer words have not been spoken.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » December 15, 2011, 3:04 pm

miir wrote:He's not malnourished, he's 'differently nourished'
He's also delicious/flavour-challenged.

I am so stealing that.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » December 15, 2011, 3:41 pm

Aslanna wrote:
Spang wrote:
Aslanna wrote:Who is eating bull horns? Whoever it is needs to stop. That's not even food!
No one, as far as I know. But the horns of bulls in factory farms are routinely ripped off of their heads.
Routinely? While they are alive? Can we get some sort of statistics or other science facts on that?

I've posted links to videos. The videos show the bulls getting their horns ripped off of their heads. If you people insist on eating animals, you really should educate yourselves on this stuff. By eating animals, you're basically paying people to torture and slaughter them.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » December 15, 2011, 3:53 pm

Spang wrote:
Aslanna wrote:Routinely? While they are alive? Can we get some sort of statistics or other science facts on that?
I've posted links to videos. The videos show the bulls getting their horns ripped off of their heads. If you people insist on eating animals, you really should educate yourselves on this stuff. By eating animals, you're basically paying people to torture and slaughter them.

Ok so you saw like.. this one video.. with this one thing.. and in your mind the frequency becomes "routine"? Got it. Thanks for those hard hitting science FACTS once again.

Here's a hint: The keyword in my previous response was routinely?. I wasn't questioning whether it happens or not I was just wanting to get an idea on the frequency. If you weren't frothing at the mouth and hitting F5 fervently (rabies?) perhaps you'd actually read shit and make a comment that's relevant to the discussion.

But hey why start now.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » December 15, 2011, 3:55 pm

Aslanna wrote:Ok so you saw like.. this one video.. with this one thing..

I've posted several videos, including a feature-length documentary. You people conveniently ignored them. Though, I think one or two of you listened to the dude who gave the hour-or-so speech.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » December 15, 2011, 4:08 pm

So how do you feel your veggie crusade has gone here so far? Do you think the way you are approaching this is working well?

Spang · Post by **Spang** » December 15, 2011, 4:27 pm

Winnow wrote:So how do you feel your veggie crusade has gone here so far? Do you think the way you are approaching this is working well?

I didn't expect anyone to stop eating animals, at least not this soon. But I'm honestly surprised at how ignorant you people insist on being. You people remind me of the folks who still believe Obama was born in Kenya.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » December 15, 2011, 5:00 pm

Spang wrote:
Winnow wrote:So how do you feel your veggie crusade has gone here so far? Do you think the way you are approaching this is working well?
I didn't expect anyone to stop eating animals, at least not this soon. But I'm honestly surprised at how ignorant you people insist on being. You people remind me of the folks who still believe Obama was born in Kenya.

Other than their being FACTS and PROOF that he wasn't. Unlike what you're arguing which is simply your own personal beliefs. So if anything you're more like onf of those "folks" than the rest of us.

Good day, sir!

Spang · Post by **Spang** » December 15, 2011, 5:08 pm

Aslanna wrote:Other than their being FACTS and PROOF that he wasn't. Unlike what you're arguing which is simply your own personal beliefs.

It's not a personal belief that factory-farmed animals are tortured and slaughtered. It's a goddamn fact.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » December 15, 2011, 5:15 pm

Actually, horn removal improves overall flavor. It is like pre-tenderizing. I was tempted today to run over a Canadian Goose that was trying to cross in front of my truck...I forgot if they were protected or not so let it go...for now.

It's funny how nobody flinches when a squirrel is run down in a moment of glee, but anything larger is frowned upon? I feel I should be able to take out cyclists, ducks, squirrels and bus drivers alike.

Need to also remember to pick up a nice rib roast to have cut into steaks so I have some time to do a little dry aging before Saturday. These are organic local cows and die just like the others.

For real people: Any of yall buy an entire cow or go in on one with others (pre-butchered)? It is pretty popular up here and you can definitely save a ton of cash!

(Assumption: deep freezer)

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » December 15, 2011, 5:39 pm

Spang wrote:
Aslanna wrote:Other than their being FACTS and PROOF that he wasn't. Unlike what you're arguing which is simply your own personal beliefs.
It's not a personal belief that factory-farmed animals are tortured and slaughtered. It's a goddamn fact.

well goddamn!

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » December 15, 2011, 5:59 pm

Canelek wrote:Actually, horn removal improves overall flavor. It is like pre-tenderizing. I was tempted today to run over a Canadian Goose that was trying to cross in front of my truck...I forgot if they were protected or not so let it go...for now.

It's funny how nobody flinches when a squirrel is run down in a moment of glee, but anything larger is frowned upon? I feel I should be able to take out cyclists, ducks, squirrels and bus drivers alike.

Need to also remember to pick up a nice rib roast to have cut into steaks so I have some time to do a little dry aging before Saturday. These are organic local cows and die just like the others.

For real people: Any of yall buy an entire cow or go in on one with others (pre-butchered)? It is pretty popular up here and you can definitely save a ton of cash!

(Assumption: deep freezer)

We regularly get half a cow from a local butcher to split among the family...except for those times my mom decides to make 60lbs of brisket for village events.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » December 15, 2011, 6:00 pm

Spang wrote:
Aslanna wrote:Ok so you saw like.. this one video.. with this one thing..
I've posted several videos, including a feature-length documentary. You people conveniently ignored them. Though, I think one or two of you listened to the dude who gave the hour-or-so speech.

you're the idiot believing everything he sees on the internet

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » December 15, 2011, 6:13 pm

Spang wrote:
Aslanna wrote:Other than their being FACTS and PROOF that he wasn't. Unlike what you're arguing which is simply your own personal beliefs.
It's not a personal belief that factory-farmed animals are tortured and slaughtered. It's a goddamn fact.

I didn't know we were back to talking specifically about that. It's not like we can have a normal conversation with you. You're like a child with ADD... You're all over the fuckin place. When we inquire on the health issues you then jump over to the moral side of things. Then when someone responds to that you jump back to health issues. And when that doesn't work you throw around "you people" like you're talking down to us from atop your holy fucking dias.

So.. Do you have statistics on the horns being torn off while alive thing that I was curious about? Other than you saw it in a video once so it must be the norm across all slaughterhouses.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » December 15, 2011, 6:34 pm

Boogahz wrote:
Canelek wrote:Actually, horn removal improves overall flavor. It is like pre-tenderizing. I was tempted today to run over a Canadian Goose that was trying to cross in front of my truck...I forgot if they were protected or not so let it go...for now.

It's funny how nobody flinches when a squirrel is run down in a moment of glee, but anything larger is frowned upon? I feel I should be able to take out cyclists, ducks, squirrels and bus drivers alike.

Need to also remember to pick up a nice rib roast to have cut into steaks so I have some time to do a little dry aging before Saturday. These are organic local cows and die just like the others.

For real people: Any of yall buy an entire cow or go in on one with others (pre-butchered)? It is pretty popular up here and you can definitely save a ton of cash!

(Assumption: deep freezer)
We regularly get half a cow from a local butcher to split among the family...except for those times my mom decides to make 60lbs of brisket for village events.

That's the way to go for sure. I hear it ends up being ~2.99/lb (or maybe 1.99). I'd like half a cow and half a pig. That would be fucking great since I no longer have a hunter that gives me free elf and deer backstraps, ground meat, etc.

Soooo much is lost in translation when it gets to the chain grocers. I end up overpaying at New Seasons, QFC, Thriftway, Whole foods, etc.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » December 15, 2011, 6:54 pm

Canelek wrote:That's the way to go for sure. I hear it ends up being ~2.99/lb (or maybe 1.99). I'd like half a cow and half a pig. That would be fucking great since I no longer have a hunter that gives me free elf and deer backstraps, ground meat, etc.

Soooo much is lost in translation when it gets to the chain grocers. I end up overpaying at New Seasons, QFC, Thriftway, Whole foods, etc.

I hear that elf is really gamey

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » December 15, 2011, 8:02 pm

Haha! That may be a deep-rooted desire to eat those pointy forest arrow-flicking nitwits. I know I have elk/elf misspelled on a number of occasions.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » December 16, 2011, 1:51 am

Aslanna wrote:So.. Do you have statistics on the horns being torn off while alive thing that I was curious about? Other than you saw it in a video once so it must be the norm across all slaughterhouses.

I doubt there are any statistics on the number of horns being ripped off of bulls. But in addition to bulls having their horns ripped off, chickens have their beaks sliced off and pigs have their tails and testicles removed. The factory farms don't want you to know about their inhumane practices.

Sajko · Post by **Sajko** » December 16, 2011, 3:54 am

Canelek wrote:
Boogahz wrote:
Canelek wrote:Actually, horn removal improves overall flavor. It is like pre-tenderizing. I was tempted today to run over a Canadian Goose that was trying to cross in front of my truck...I forgot if they were protected or not so let it go...for now.

It's funny how nobody flinches when a squirrel is run down in a moment of glee, but anything larger is frowned upon? I feel I should be able to take out cyclists, ducks, squirrels and bus drivers alike.

Need to also remember to pick up a nice rib roast to have cut into steaks so I have some time to do a little dry aging before Saturday. These are organic local cows and die just like the others.

For real people: Any of yall buy an entire cow or go in on one with others (pre-butchered)? It is pretty popular up here and you can definitely save a ton of cash!

(Assumption: deep freezer)
We regularly get half a cow from a local butcher to split among the family...except for those times my mom decides to make 60lbs of brisket for village events.
That's the way to go for sure. I hear it ends up being ~2.99/lb (or maybe 1.99). I'd like half a cow and half a pig. That would be fucking great since I no longer have a hunter that gives me free elf and deer backstraps, ground meat, etc.

Soooo much is lost in translation when it gets to the chain grocers. I end up overpaying at New Seasons, QFC, Thriftway, Whole foods, etc.

Not cool!

Spang · Post by **Spang** » December 16, 2011, 8:57 am

Agnostic Carnivores and Global Warming: Why Enviros Go After Coal and Not Cows

There’s not a single person who’s done more to fight climate change than Bill McKibben. Through thoughtful books, ubiquitous magazine contributions, and, most notably, the founding of 350.org (an international non-profit dedicated to fighting global warming), McKibben has committed his life to saving the planet. For all the passion fueling his efforts, though, there’s something weirdly amiss in his approach to reducing greenhouse gas emissions: neither he nor 350.org will actively promote a vegan diet.

Given the nature of our current discourse on climate change, this omission might not seem a problem. Vegans are still considered as sort of “out there,” a fringe group of animal rights activists with pasty skin and protein issues. However, as a recent report from the World Preservation Foundation confirms, ignoring veganism in the fight against climate change is sort of like ignoring fast food in the fight against obesity. Forget ending dirty coal or natural gas pipelines. As the WPF report shows, veganism offers the single most effective path to reducing global climate change.

The evidence is powerful. Eating a vegan diet, according to the study, is seven times more effective at reducing emissions than eating a local meat-based diet. A global vegan diet (of conventional crops) would reduce dietary emissions by 87 percent, compared to a token 8 percent for “sustainable meat and dairy.” In light of the fact that the overall environmental impact of livestock is greater than that of burning coal, natural gas, and crude oil, this 87 percent cut (94 percent if the plants were grown organically) would come pretty close to putting 350.org out of business, which I’m sure would make McKibben a happy man.

[...]

The Complete Article

Lynks · Post by **Lynks** » December 16, 2011, 9:29 am

Spang wrote:I doubt there are any statistics on the number of horns being ripped off of bulls. But in addition to bulls having their horns ripped off, chickens have their beaks sliced off and pigs have their tails and testicles removed. The factory farms don't want you to know about their inhumane practices.

You remind me of the people that believed Bush when he said Iraq had WMDs. While there might be a or 2 farms that practice that, I doubt there are thousands. You claiming that it routinely happens is something you and your vegan butt buddies made up.

You must be pulling our leg. This can't be real. No one is that dumb/hypocritical.

Lynks · Post by **Lynks** » December 16, 2011, 9:32 am

Vegans murder and rape people that eat meat. I don't have any stats on this but it happens daily. They don't want you to know about it.

I can make stuff up too!

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » December 16, 2011, 10:13 am

Lynks wrote:Vegans murder and rape people that eat meat. I don't have any stats on this but it happens daily. They don't want you to know about it.

Statistically likely at any rate

The article above on meat, specifically beef production and greenhouse gasses is sound. Most other animals are far less of an issue. There are systems available to compost the poo and burn the methane to power the farm, doubt they've caught on in the US. Doesn't quite balance out the emissions but makes a major dent in them.

I don't know if they take all the secondary effects of agriculture though and given the inherent bias of anyone who would make the study I couldn't take the results at face value regardless.

A cow spends most of it's life standing in a field farting and waiting to be eaten, and is created by another pair of cows (sometimes anyway).

Just the chain preparing for the planting of a commercial crop is a veritable trail of destruction involving just about every kind of air, land and water pollution you can imagine and some I bet you can't.

But once again, you're justifying a moral choice, which no one has a problem with, using science that doesn't generally pan out if you widen your scope. Common issue with zealots of any stripe.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » December 16, 2011, 11:31 am

Vegans torture flies by tearing off their wings.

Post by **Sylvus** » December 16, 2011, 12:21 pm

Here's an article that Arb posted on facebook that Spang won't read.

Ordering the vegetarian meal? There’s more animal blood on your hands

Spang · Post by **Spang** » December 16, 2011, 12:25 pm

Sylvus wrote:Here's an article that Arb posted on facebook that Spang won't read.

Ordering the vegetarian meal? There’s more animal blood on your hands

According to that article, animals are sentient. Thank you for posting it. Also, cows in the United States, specifically factory-farmed cows, are primarily fed corn.

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » December 16, 2011, 12:40 pm

Trollspang's thesis is on trolling an Internet forum.