Obama WILL be the next president

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » July 23, 2008, 3:14 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:http://www.nationalenquirer.com/john_ed ... rity/64271

Oh boy. I wonder if this is true and when the mainstream media will investigate this and report on it.

It's actually going to be breaking national headlines tonight. I think it's going to debut after the interview with Bat Boy.

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » July 23, 2008, 3:21 pm

Fairweather Pure wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:http://www.nationalenquirer.com/john_ed ... rity/64271

Oh boy. I wonder if this is true and when the mainstream media will investigate this and report on it.
It's actually going to be breaking national headlines tonight. I think it's going to debut after the interview with Bat Boy.

huh?

Published on: 10/10/2007

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » July 23, 2008, 3:26 pm

Xatrei wrote:He does not believe that the surge worked. He believes that it produced some beneficial results, and that it has contributed to the reduction in violence in Iraq, but it has failed to assist the Iraqi government arriving at the political goals that drove the surge. There's never been any doubt that deploying several more brigades into Iraq would have a positive impact. However, the surge's success is not measured simply by whether or not it positively impacted the situation in Iraq. It certainly helped, but there were several other important (many would say more important) factors that have caused the vast reduction in violence, primarily the Sunni Awakening and the Mahdi Army standing down. Iraq still has not made the political progress that was the primary goal of the surge. Obama would not change his stance on the surge because he, and many others, still believe that the solution favored by the left at the time would have produced better results. I don't disagree. I think that Obama has repeatedly stated this position clearly and without any confusion, except that imagined by his political foes.

But he said it has worked. You really don't see that he's just trying to avoid agreeing with the evil Bush on a very made-up crucial election issue?

Truant · Post by **Truant** » July 23, 2008, 3:29 pm

because the ends don't always justify the means?

Just because something works doesn't mean it's the thing you should do?

Post by **Sylvus** » July 23, 2008, 3:38 pm

He is quite clearly saying that while the surge may have helped bring down some of the levels of violence, it isn't a panacea and he still thinks that our resources (money, troops, etc) would have been better spent in other places (specifically Afghanistan) that would be of more strategic benefit to the United States.

Why is that so difficult to understand? There is a difference between saying "there is no doubt that our troops helped to reduce violence" and saying that the surge "worked". Maybe his plan would have worked better, maybe it would have been worse, the bottom line is that we don't know and he's still sticking to his guns. I thought you guys would admire that, after all the bullshit I had to hear about the last Democrat nominee being a flip-flopper.

Xatrei · Post by **Xatrei** » July 23, 2008, 3:54 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:But he said it has worked. You really don't see that he's just trying to avoid agreeing with the evil Bush on a very made-up crucial election issue?

He has agreed that the surge contributed to the reduction of violence. You, for whatever reason (most likely because the right-wing talker or blogger you've listened to today told you so), wrongly interpret that to mean that he has said that the surge has succeeded when he has said no such thing. One would have to either be deliberately trying to misrepresent Obama's position, or too stupid to understand it. I understand McCain operatives misrepresenting this for their candidate's advantage, but blur the line between those two possibilities so often that it is sometimes really hard to choose which one applies to you. I generally assume a lot of both.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » July 23, 2008, 4:00 pm

Sylvus wrote:He is quite clearly saying that while the surge may have helped bring down some of the levels of violence, it isn't a panacea and he still thinks that our resources (money, troops, etc) would have been better spent in other places (specifically Afghanistan) that would be of more strategic benefit to the United States.

Why is that so difficult to understand? There is a difference between saying "there is no doubt that our troops helped to reduce violence" and saying that the surge "worked". Maybe his plan would have worked better, maybe it would have been worse, the bottom line is that we don't know and he's still sticking to his guns. I thought you guys would admire that, after all the bullshit I had to hear about the last Democrat nominee being a flip-flopper.

As I have tried to explain before, flip-flopping and adjusting ones position based on new intel are two different things. Flip-Flopping is done for political gain. Adjusting your position based on new information is just smart. You wouldn't want your financial advisor who manages your portfolio to stick by his guns on bad stock and mutual fund purchases when they are going down hill, would you? No. You want him to be able to adjust and move your money around to what the current information is telling him. There are no sure things. One must be able to adjust. Maybe dozens of times, maybe 50 times, maybe more. The surge was just a bullshit title given in this media society we live in of something a commander does on a daily basis. They adjust. Obamas opinion on something he knows jack about means shit to me. McCains opinion means shit to me. He's a santor in a political campaign. Anything any of these people say can't even be taken with a grain of salt. It's astounding to me how much value is placed upon either of these two or anyone assiciated with these two.

Post by **Sylvus** » July 23, 2008, 4:03 pm

Then why did that transcript of Couric and Obama give you a boner?

Xatrei · Post by **Xatrei** » July 23, 2008, 4:06 pm

When your guy changes his position, he's evolving based upon new facts. When the other guy does it, he's flip-flopping.

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » July 23, 2008, 4:06 pm

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld ... 7111.story

The current Iraqi Prime Minister agrees with Obama's proposed timeline to leave Iraq. I would think this would get a little more attention than I have seen. It's a pretty big deal IMO.

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » July 23, 2008, 4:09 pm

You people can't be serious. The surge didn't fucking work. In order for the surge to have been successful, it would have met its own criteria of having ended by now. But those 30,000 troops are still there, 18 fucking months later! And while the surge helped reduce violence (ONE of its goals), other factors also helped reduce violence as well. But the reduction in violence has not paved the way for political reconciliation or progress, and the war is now even more expensive than it was before the surge began. Nevermind that the reasons for the surge include Bush's unilateral incompetence at planning and executing a fucking war. This is like fixing the door on a car you crashed into a wall, then touting, "LOOK EVERYBODY, I FIXED THE DOOR!", as if it somehow negates the fact that you crashed a fucking car into a fucking wall.

Xatrei · Post by **Xatrei** » July 23, 2008, 4:23 pm

Xyun wrote:You people can't be serious. The surge didn't fucking work. In order for the surge to have been successful, it would have met its own criteria of having ended by now. But those 30,000 troops are still there, 18 fucking months later! And while the surge helped reduce violence (ONE of its goals), other factors also helped reduce violence as well. But the reduction in violence has not paved the way for political reconciliation or progress, and the war is now even more expensive than it was before the surge began. Nevermind that the reasons for the surge include Bush's unilateral incompetence at planning and executing a fucking war. This is like fixing the door on a car you crashed into a wall, then touting, "LOOK EVERYBODY, I FIXED THE DOOR!", as if it somehow negates the fact that you crashed a fucking car into a fucking wall.

Since this is addressed to "You people," in case my position is in any way unclear, let me say that I certainly haven't ever agreed that the surge worked. I think I've said as much in the last several posts of mine. It has been one of several contributing factors in the reduction of violence, but far from an overall success, having failed to give way to any political reconciliation (the main reason used to justify the surge by the Bushies). You and I seem to be on the same page on this one.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » July 23, 2008, 4:54 pm

God forbid we ever acknowledge and applaud any sucesses. LOL What awful people you are.

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » July 23, 2008, 4:57 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:God forbid we ever acknowledge and applaud any sucesses. LOL What awful people you are.

I never thought we should be there to begin with. Why would I applaud?

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » July 23, 2008, 5:02 pm

Fairweather Pure wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:God forbid we ever acknowledge and applaud any sucesses. LOL What awful people you are.

I never thought we should be there to begin with. Why would I applaud?

Because what's done is done. You must move on. I know plenty of people who never wanted to have kids. They have kids. Thankfully they don't sit around and pout like you.

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » July 23, 2008, 5:04 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:God forbid we ever acknowledge and applaud any sucesses. LOL What awful people you are.

WTF are you talking about? I do applaud success. Unfortunately, this administration is a colossal fucking failure. The only success they've had is disguising their failure as success, and you sir, are a vessel for that success. Congrats, I applaud you.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » July 23, 2008, 5:06 pm

Xyun wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:God forbid we ever acknowledge and applaud any sucesses. LOL What awful people you are.
WTF are you talking about? I do applaud success. Unfortunately, this administration is a colossal fucking failure. The only success they've had is disguising their failure as success, and you sir, are a vessel for that success. Congrats, I applaud you.

What am I talking about? Your post describes it perfectly.

Truant · Post by **Truant** » July 23, 2008, 5:15 pm

ooc, what successes do you feel there are that 'we' should be applauding?

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » July 23, 2008, 5:22 pm

Truant wrote:ooc, what successes do you feel there are that 'we' should be applauding?

Really? Were we not just speaking about the surge. Do you really think there has been many sucesses over the past 5 years in Iraq? Do you honestly believe everything was a failure? Boy, how easily we the populace are manipulated by the selective coverage and skewing the media does. It's really frightening.

miir · Post by **miir** » July 23, 2008, 5:29 pm

I guess Mid has been so desensitized by the failures of the Bush administration he thinks that anything that is not a complete and utter disaster should be applauded as a success.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » July 23, 2008, 5:35 pm

miir wrote:I guess Mid has been so desensitized by the failures of the Bush administration he thinks that anything that is not a complete and utter disaster should be applauded as a success.

*hug*

I hug because I'm emo.

Truant · Post by **Truant** » July 23, 2008, 5:46 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Truant wrote:ooc, what successes do you feel there are that 'we' should be applauding?
Really? Were we not just speaking about the surge. Do you really think there has been many sucesses over the past 5 years in Iraq? Do you honestly believe everything was a failure? Boy, how easily we the populace are manipulated by the selective coverage and skewing the media does. It's really frightening.

I was playing Devil's Advocate tbh. You made a statement that I (and everyone else) are awful people for not dancing in the street for anything we (you) preceived as a success.
I was just simply asking what successes you felt there were for the purposes of making a point.

That point was that success is subjective (measured differently by different people), and that what one person views as a success might be a failure to someone else.
But here's the real kicker...neither person in that scenario are wrong!

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » July 24, 2008, 2:43 am

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:God forbid we ever acknowledge and applaud any sucesses. LOL What awful people you are.

I would like to applaud Midnight for not fucking any midget hookers this week.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » July 24, 2008, 9:45 am

Source?

miir · Post by **miir** » July 24, 2008, 9:46 am

The tar baby told him.

cid · Post by **cid** » July 24, 2008, 10:49 am

midget hookers are hot!!!!

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » July 24, 2008, 11:00 am

cid wrote:midget hookers are hot!!!!

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » July 24, 2008, 2:41 pm

Obama is delivering this huge speech in Germany in English. Hypocrit.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » July 24, 2008, 2:51 pm

Also, once again, two big music bands performed in a free concert prior to his speech. The man should double his marketing campaigns salary.

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » July 24, 2008, 3:55 pm

Obama's recent speeches given around the world pale in comparison to the speeches McCain has given.

Oh, wait... n/m

On a serious note, I was impressed Obama spoke with Israeli and Pakistani officials within hours of each other in their respecitve countries. If McSame really wants a shot, he needs to stop being on the defensive all the time by taking shots at Obama. Step up and show some initiative. Make people notice you by leading and doing positive things that get you noticed. I'm disappointed in John's campaign so far.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » July 24, 2008, 4:05 pm

Midnyte doesn't see all the positive things Obama does, just the negatives, and they far outweigh the positives in his mind.

And now he will tell all us bleeding-heart liberals that we are hypocrites.

Also, I think I saw a democrat use the phrase "porch monkey" on YouTube.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » July 24, 2008, 4:23 pm

Spang wrote:
Also, I think I saw a democrat use the phrase "porch monkey" on YouTube.

Link please.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » July 24, 2008, 4:24 pm

Doesn't exist, but thanks for deflecting from the initial point that I brought up.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » July 24, 2008, 4:26 pm

The marketing juggernaut that is the Obama Messiah, will run out of steam. I still have faith the people aren't dumb enough to ride this train all the into November. *fingers crossed*

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » July 24, 2008, 4:27 pm

Spang wrote:Doesn't exist, but thanks for deflecting from the initial point that I brought up.

You brought up a point? Trying something new I see.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » July 24, 2008, 4:28 pm

And you completely ignored it.

No surprise there, though.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » July 24, 2008, 4:32 pm

Spang wrote:Midnyte doesn't see all the positive things Obama does, just the negatives, and they far outweigh the positives in his mind.

And now he will tell all us bleeding-heart liberals that we are hypocrites.

Also, I think I saw a democrat use the phrase "porch monkey" on YouTube.

Here you go Spang. I'll respond to your troll.

Newsflash for you, I'm not a fan of socialism. Obama is. I see no positives. If he becomes my President I will support him. I will disagree with his philosophies, but I will support him because it is my duty as an American to do so.

You are hypocrites.

"Porch monkey". hahaha

Spang · Post by **Spang** » July 24, 2008, 4:37 pm

I rest my case.

miir · Post by **miir** » July 24, 2008, 4:40 pm

Newsflash for you, I'm not a fan of socialism. Obama is.

Obama is more conservative than socialist.

Xatrei · Post by **Xatrei** » July 24, 2008, 4:48 pm

Apparently if you're at all left of center, you're a socialist now? I don't think you'd actually know a real socialist if one was standing in front of you.

In other news, the bogeyman terrorizes children, bigfoot stalks the pacific northwest, chupacabra killed another farmer's goat and Obama has called for the nationalization of all U.S. industry.

miir wrote:Obama is more conservative than socialist.

I have to laugh when right-wing lunatics talk about how far left the Democratic party in the US is. For the most part, they're only slightly less conservative than the Republicans. Only in a deluded brain like Midnyte's can a Democrat be equated with being a genuine leftist.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » July 24, 2008, 4:51 pm

bigfoot stalks the pacific northwest

Actually, Kilmoll lives in Ohio.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » July 24, 2008, 4:53 pm

miir wrote:
Newsflash for you, I'm not a fan of socialism. Obama is.
Obama is more conservative than socialist.

Phew. That's good news. Can you post exmaples of why this is the case. I just heard clips of his speech in Germany with tons of references to sacrifice(taxes) and globalism. I'm not so sure you're right on this one.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » July 24, 2008, 5:09 pm

"In America, there are voices that deride and deny the importance of Europe's role in our security and our future.

"But the burdens of global citizenship continue to bind us together," he added

Really? Where? He's responding to a non-exsistant issue.

Burdens of global citizenship? Oh lord. The Obamessiah hath been delivered to us. May he rescue us from all our woes....een the ones we didn't know we had until he told us.

Post by **Sylvus** » July 24, 2008, 5:15 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
"In America, there are voices that deride and deny the importance of Europe's role in our security and our future.

"But the burdens of global citizenship continue to bind us together," he added

Really? Where? He's responding to a non-exsistant issue.

It happens here on a fairly regular basis. I'm pretty sure you have been guilty of it (though I couldn't tell you a specific thread off the top of my head), and I know for a fact that Funk and others have been. The isolationist viewpoint that often comes out as a result (or is the cause) of Nick's posting? While I often disagree with Nick, and think that he overreacts a bit with his "xenophobia" bit, it certainly happens here. And if it happens here on an extremely small scale, it's happening on a much grander scale throughout America.

Or are you just echoing the sentiment that you don't believe that Europe has any importance in our security or our future?

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » July 24, 2008, 5:29 pm

Sylvus wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
"In America, there are voices that deride and deny the importance of Europe's role in our security and our future.

"But the burdens of global citizenship continue to bind us together," he added

Really? Where? He's responding to a non-exsistant issue.
It happens here on a fairly regular basis. I'm pretty sure you have been guilty of it (though I couldn't tell you a specific thread off the top of my head), and I know for a fact that Funk and others have been. The isolationist viewpoint that often comes out as a result (or is the cause) of Nick's posting? While I often disagree with Nick, and think that he overreacts a bit with his "xenophobia" bit, it certainly happens here. And if it happens here on an extremely small scale, it's happening on a much grander scale throughout America.

Or are you just echoing the sentiment that you don't believe that Europe has any importance in our security or our future?

I'm responding to him creating a solution to a non-issue. Of course, there will always be comments made by a very small fraction of people about isolationism, but it is not some big issue.

To you last question, I feel it is the duty of any just nation to band together with other just nations against unjust nations. But, if they don't agree, then it's okay to take it upon yourself to make the difficult decisions to do what's right.

Obama also says in his speech today that he feels it's important to rid the middle east of terrorists and those that support terrorism. Laughable. Now he's on board. We'll to this particular audience anyway. You really don't see how pathetically inconsistent this man is? He's fooling you. He is a media/marketing creation.

miir · Post by **miir** » July 24, 2008, 5:34 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Obama also says in his speech today that he feels it's important to rid the middle east of terrorists and those that support terrorism. Laughable. Now he's on board. We'll to this particular audience anyway. You really don't see how pathetically inconsistent this man is? He's fooling you. He is a media/marketing creation.

Do you ever think for yourself or do you just get all your opinions and catchphrases from the rightwing blogsphere?

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » July 24, 2008, 5:36 pm

miir wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Obama also says in his speech today that he feels it's important to rid the middle east of terrorists and those that support terrorism. Laughable. Now he's on board. We'll to this particular audience anyway. You really don't see how pathetically inconsistent this man is? He's fooling you. He is a media/marketing creation.
Do you ever think for yourself or do you just get all your opinions and catchphrases from the rightwing blogsphere?

I don't even know a right wing blog place. Nor would I read blogs from any side. Only blog I've ever read was on the Food Netwrok website about the next food network star show. My words are my own, you lousy canuck.

Post by **Sylvus** » July 24, 2008, 5:37 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Obama also says in his speech today that he feels it's important to rid the middle east of terrorists and those that support terrorism. Laughable. Now he's on board. We'll to this particular audience anyway. You really don't see how pathetically inconsistent this man is? He's fooling you. He is a media/marketing creation.

Okay, I think you've got a slight disconnect between what you think Obama is standing for and the reality of the situation. It's the same problem with you thinking he has changed his position on the surge at all. Not supporting the surge and agreeing that it has contributed to a reduction in violence are not mutually exclusive. Not supporting the war in Iraq and wanting to get rid of terrorism in the Middle East are not mutually exclusive.

When has Obama ever said that he didn't want to get rid of terrorism, or even implied that, such that today's speech makes him inconsistent on the issue? If you can find me one credible source for that position, I will vote for John McCain (or whoever you end up supporting) in the November election.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » July 24, 2008, 5:45 pm

What is the point in conversing with a faggot like Midnyte? The guy is known to be a troll, an imbecile and a waste of time.

Logic, rationality, fact or reality don't work. He has about 2 different replies to reality being put in front of him, "I'm an open minded guy we just disagree (except you cant actually disagree on reality, because its reality, idiot boy), "You'll understand when you're older" or some other maybe one day he's feeling particularly inventive, and either runs from the thread or simply carries on talking utter shit until everyone else gets bored.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » July 24, 2008, 5:49 pm

Sylvus wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Obama also says in his speech today that he feels it's important to rid the middle east of terrorists and those that support terrorism. Laughable. Now he's on board. We'll to this particular audience anyway. You really don't see how pathetically inconsistent this man is? He's fooling you. He is a media/marketing creation.
Okay, I think you've got a slight disconnect between what you think Obama is standing for and the reality of the situation. It's the same problem with you thinking he has changed his position on the surge at all. Not supporting the surge and agreeing that it has contributed to a reduction in violence are not mutually exclusive. Not supporting the war in Iraq and wanting to get rid of terrorism in the Middle East are not mutually exclusive.

When has Obama ever said that he didn't want to get rid of terrorism, or even implied that, such that today's speech makes him inconsistent on the issue? If you can find me one credible source for that position, I will vote for John McCain (or whoever you end up supporting) in the November election.

The war in Iraq is part of the fight against terrorism. I don't support either candidate. I wanted Fred Thompson or Mitt Romney. I'd vote for McCain since the republican platform more closely resembles my values, but voting republican in PA is a waste of time.