Sicko

[Fairweather Pure]

http://movies.aol.com/movie/sicko/26778/trailer

Let the Moore hating begin!


Seriously, I think it looks really interesting. He looks to share some interesting facts about the corporate mindset behind our health care industry here in America. I see it single everyday. It's not hospitals dicking over patients (usually), it's insurance companies. They also fuck the hospital too. Medicare is the single worst offender. They have all sorts of special rules and guidlines that only apply to them and they can enforce them or ignore them at their leisure. They can do an audit, find an error somewhere in the process, then deny a claim, making the hospital pay back some big cash in the process. The problem is that Medicare makes the process so unbelievably complicated on every end of the billing system that if they look hard enough, they are going to find a mistake somewhere. "We can't read the nurse's end time on this IV med" "You owe us 8,000$ for their hospital stay from 3 years ago."

Medicare and Medicaid combined to bankrupt a neighboring Hospital several years ago. It was all thier billing loopholes that starved a hospital in Albion, MI. Albion is a very depressed area, with an unreal amount of Medicare and Medicaid patients. It was thier main source of revenue, and the government just slowly fucked them. Albion also had a bad planning comitee that didn't help matters either. The fault did not lie squarely with government billing, but it was a good 75% of the issue. I'm glad that the hospital I work at knows how to play the game better than most, and we're finiancially one of the best hospitals in most of Michigan.

Goddamn I hate Medicare. Blue Cross can suck my balls too. These people are goddamn crooks. Never let anyone tell you otherwise. It's all a game, and they hold all the cards. Their sole purpose is to find out how much they can deny in payment or just hold up as long as possible.

Anyway, he's gotten a lot of publicity lately for his Cuba stunt and had a great opening at Cannes. I've heard for this film, he really lets the footage do the talking, so there is a lot less of him sorta filling in the gaps of logic. That was always him pointing ou tthe obvious IMO, and a little annoying. Anyway, I wonder how the health care industry will react to this? I work in a hospital and am already curious of any impact it may have.

Maybe people would think a little more about politicians that tout universal healthcare when elections come around.

[masteen]

See that was the great part about Roger and Me. He let the footage speak for itself, and only narrated mostly as segues between segments.

Letting someone make themselves look like a scumbag on film is 100x more effective than making a film of yourself calling someone a scumbag for two hours.

[Fash]

I'm no fan of Moore's political agenda, but I've enjoyed all of his films and look forward to this one as well.

I work for a Medicare business process outsourcing firm, I've dealt with the CMS Helpdesk and a lot of the bullshit just from the technical side of things. Unrealistic timelines and demands are commonplace, with the threat of non-payment over your head.

[Fash]

This movie is powerful. a must see.

I don't even want to say anything about it... just watch it.

Viva la revolution!

[Winnow]

It says over on the Movie Blog that he takes a shot at Hillary Clinton. I might watch it!

[Funkmasterr]

See that was the great part about Roger and Me. He let the footage speak for itself, and only narrated mostly as segues between segments.

Letting someone make themselves look like a scumbag on film is 100x more effective than making a film of yourself calling someone a scumbag for two hours.

Yeah, and using context to your advantage to prove a point that might not be valid if the rest of the sentence/whatever was present is cool too, all the smart kids are doin it. He is a fucking douchebag, period.

[miir]

Yeah, and using context to your advantage to prove a point that might not be valid if the rest of the sentence/whatever was present is cool too, all the smart kids are doin it.

What




The




Fuck




???

[miir]

Because I've seen you do this like 7 or 8 times, I'm curious as to how your though process works when typing out posts.


Do you actually think coherent thoughts and they just get all jumbled and fucked up when you're typing them out?
Or do you think in random directions and then blurt out everything at once?
Do you start typing out a reply before you know what you're going to say?
Does this happen to you when you're speaking... or just when you type shit out?
Do your friends frequently have to stop you in mid-sentence to ask what the fuck you're talking about?

Do you do a lot of drugs or something?
Or did you fall out of a tree and land on your head when you were young?
Do you take a lot of shots to the head when you get into fights?

[Fash]

I think I understand what he's trying to say, but the only example I can think of is related to the 9/11 thing where a witnesses testimony was cut up to only air his second sentence. the second sentence made it seem like it was a missle that hit the pentagon, but in his first sentence he completely identified it by airline and model number.

[Sylvus]

I believe that's more commonly referred to taking something "out of context" though rather than "using context to your advantage". But I don't care, just trying to help you guys out.

[miir]

Oh there's nothing surprising about that.
The Republican party are masters of "using context to their advantage" when election time rolls around.

I think the best thing about Michael Moore's films is that they encourage discussion on some very important topics.

He seems to like to use a lot of the scare/shock tactics that are so popular with the right-wing pundits.
He needs his films to appeal to the lowest common denominator for them to make any real impact.

[miir]

He is a fucking douchebag, period.

Why exactly is he a douchebag?

Quoting people out of context to help your argument is hardly the height of douchebaggery.

[Funkmasterr]

I believe that's more commonly referred to taking something "out of context" though rather than "using context to your advantage". But I don't care, just trying to help you guys out.

Yes, it is more commonly referred to that way, but I think what I said was understandable, I just think miir likes to give me shit because I don't sit and think my posts out before hand.

Most of Moore's movies he takes nearly everything out of context. I have not seen the movies in their entirety because I have zero interest, but I have seen clips displaying this.. Then I really get a kick out of the people I talk to after his movies come out that think because he had it in his film, it's obviously true.

Not to mention I am sick of people (not just him) using hollywood to push their propaganda - I hardly care to hear a lot of peoples political opinions on this board, why the hell would I want to hear them from some actor/musician/whatever.

[Funkmasterr]

Oh there's nothing surprising about that.
The Republican party are masters of "using context to their advantage" when election time rolls around.

I think the best thing about Michael Moore's films is that they encourage discussion on some very important topics.

He seems to like to use a lot of the scare/shock tactics that are so popular with the right-wing pundits.
He needs his films to appeal to the lowest common denominator for them to make any real impact.

For the most part I agree with you. Politicians on both sides of the fence do that, which is why I have a very hard time watching the presidential debates. However, I watch movies for entertainment, and watching this blubbering idiot do what I am speaking about for a couple hours is no where near entertaining.. And that's not even mentioning the fact that I don't agree with pretty much everything he says.

[miir]

Most of Moore's movies he takes nearly everything out of context. I have not seen the movies in their entirety because I have zero interest, but I have seen clips displaying this.. Then I really get a kick out of the people I talk to after his movies come out that think because he had it in his film, it's obviously true.

Dismissing his movies without ever watching them makes you just as ignornat as the people who take what he says at face value, without questioning.

Not to mention I am sick of people (not just him) using hollywood to push their propaganda - I hardly care to hear a lot of peoples political opinions on this board, why the hell would I want to hear them from some actor/musician/whatever.

Well then why the fuck are you even reading and posting on this thread?

[Funkmasterr]

I can't help posting in the thread, just seeing his name bothers me

I'm done now.

[Fash]

I strongly recommend you watch this WHOLE movie, regardless of your affiliations or beliefs...

I have not been a fan of Moore, but I find it hard to believe you can watch this movie and find something to disagree with. Knowing you guys though, anything is possible

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

Oh there's nothing surprising about that.
The Republican party are masters of "using context to their advantage" when election time rolls around.

I think the best thing about Michael Moore's films is that they encourage discussion on some very important topics.

He seems to like to use a lot of the scare/shock tactics that are so popular with the right-wing pundits.
He needs his films to appeal to the lowest common denominator for them to make any real impact.

Both sides do that.

The scare/shock tactics appeal to the Democratic voters too. Thus, why medicare is always a good Dem platform( that never gets fixed) so the easy to scare old folks will vote Dem. The Dems always trash the wealthy. Why? To scare the poor and middle class to vote Dem.

Both sides have have all kinds....rich, smart, dumb and poor. When you make these one sided biased statements it really makes you look like one of those "lowest common denominators".

Your bias is pathetic.

On topic, I am downloading Sicko now. I'll post my view of this after I watch it.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

Excellent 2 hour commercial for National Healthcare. I want us to have the system they have in the UK. I hope our corrupt government sees the light and empties its pockets to allow for an NHS. It sure would be great.

[miir]

Your bias is pathetic

The Rupublicans and their right-wing pundits are masters of scare, shock and shit-slinging tactics.
I just find it a bit curious that right-wingers get so agitated because Michael Moore is just as good at it.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

Your bias is pathetic

The Rupublicans and their right-wing pundits are masters of scare, shock and shit-slinging tactics.
I just find it a bit curious that right-wingers get so agitated because Michael Moore is just as good at it.

Okay, Mr. Oblivious.

All of them do it. The mass media is slanted left. Hollywood is left. Newspapers are mostly left. Being right is not the norm.

The only network you hate for being slanted right is Foxnews, right? It's the only one!

Bah, nevermind. I can't go over all the elementary bullshit again, especially on this thread. Michael Moore is a tool and I hate the bullshit way he makes "films", but in this case, he is right. We need an NHS.

[Zaelath]

Your bias is pathetic

The Rupublicans and their right-wing pundits are masters of scare, shock and shit-slinging tactics.
I just find it a bit curious that right-wingers get so agitated because Michael Moore is just as good at it.

Okay, Mr. Oblivious.

All of them do it. The mass media is slanted left. Hollywood is left. Newspapers are mostly left. Being right is not the norm.

The only network you hate for being slanted right is Foxnews, right? It's the only one!

Bah, nevermind. I can't go over all the elementary bullshit again, especially on this thread. Michael Moore is a tool and I hate the bullshit way he makes "films", but in this case, he is right. We need an NHS.

The media is slanted left? Well.. if by that you mean they tend to side with people instead of big business/government, then OMFG... you mean... they talk about the things their customers (people) want to hear about rather than trying to program their customers to accept everything big business/government do is really in their interest? The scoundrels.

Every metric I've ever seen for determining left/right bias puts everyone even close to the centre in the left. Hell 90% of TV here is run by people like Rupert (Fox News) Murdoch and clearly advances whatever agenda they have, yet you would no doubt just as confidently tell me we have a left bias too.

Back on topic, the British NHS is always talked about like it's a catastrophe.. I think ours is pretty good, as long as you understand that "will kill you today" is the definition of "urgent". We pay about 1.5-2% IIRC into public health, and well... I think it's money much better spent than most of the crap the government goes on with.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

The media is slanted left? Well.. if by that you mean they tend to side with people instead of big business/government, then OMFG... you mean... they talk about the things their customers (people) want to hear about rather than trying to program their customers to accept everything big business/government do is really in their interest? The scoundrels.

Side with the people? The last election was 52% / 48% . You're retarded.

Every metric I've ever seen for determining left/right bias puts everyone even close to the centre in the left. Hell 90% of TV here is run by people like Rupert (Fox News) Murdoch and clearly advances whatever agenda they have, yet you would no doubt just as confidently tell me we have a left bias too.

Here? Where? We are discussing an American issue.

[Zaelath]

The media is slanted left? Well.. if by that you mean they tend to side with people instead of big business/government, then OMFG... you mean... they talk about the things their customers (people) want to hear about rather than trying to program their customers to accept everything big business/government do is really in their interest? The scoundrels.

Side with the people? The last election was 52% / 48% . You're retarded.

a) How is that relevant? Because 4% (to be kind) of the people were swayed by Faux News and the like into believing Iraq was associated w/ 9/11, that kicking people in the crotch was the best way to reduce their resentment of you, and that the Bush administration had any clue at all what they were talking about with regards to length and size of committment required; that means "the people" are more interested in proping up Big Oil and Big Business than health, education, and welfare? Uh huh.

b) OMG, was that *you* going personal first, like you always do? Should I now pretend to be offended and claim I can't have an argument here based on fact rather than personality and storm off like a 5 year old?

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

The media is slanted left? Well.. if by that you mean they tend to side with people instead of big business/government, then OMFG... you mean... they talk about the things their customers (people) want to hear about rather than trying to program their customers to accept everything big business/government do is really in their interest? The scoundrels.

Side with the people? The last election was 52% / 48% . You're retarded.

a) How is that relevant? Because 4% (to be kind) of the people were swayed by Faux News and the like into believing Iraq was associated w/ 9/11, that kicking people in the crotch was the best way to reduce their resentment of you, and that the Bush administration had any clue at all what they were talking about with regards to length and size of committment required; that means "the people" are more interested in proping up Big Oil and Big Business than health, education, and welfare? Uh huh.

b) OMG, was that *you* going personal first, like you always do? Should I now pretend to be offended and claim I can't have an argument here based on fact rather than personality and storm off like a 5 year old?

/sigh. You're a good troll. Personal? Because I called you retarded for saying they side with the people? You think the media gives a fuck about you? 4 weeks on Anna Nicole Smith coverage shows how the media cares about you? The 52%/48% is to show you how divided the country is politically. Not to show you this time the Reps won or that they are a majority.

[Zaelath]

Meh, please explain how calling someone retarded isn't a personal attack. Until then, you have lost your whining rights about personal attacks, hypocrite.

Anna Nicole coverage falls into ratings, not "media bias" territory. Try harder.

NB: my real objection here is that you believe the "media bias" is a) fixed, b) indisputable. I probably watched more Bill O'Reilly and Jon Stewart than any other media when I lived in the US... and while they're definitely biased, I fail to understand how you think massive corporations would be allowed to be leftist when they're owned by people that are firmly on the right. Hell, even people on editorial salaries would be going against their own self-interest to champion true leftist thinking.

[miir]

Got around to seeing this last night.
I thouroughly enjoyed it.
Very typical Michael Moore but it was a lot funnier than his previous films.


--------

Handing control of health care over to big-business seems like such an obviously BAD IDEA, I'm surprised that any American could believe their health-care system is acceptable.

If your government spent a fraction of the money it does on the military, you guys could have BY FAR the absolute best health care on the planet.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

Yup. It's very disgusting. I fear there is just way too many politicians in Washington who got there from the bank accounts of big dryg companies to ever see it changed. Maybe some brilliant economist can figure a way out for these assholes to still make all there money and allow us to have a system like they have in the UK. I've already spent over $5000 this year in uncovered medical expenses. It's ridiculous.

[miir]

Here's an interesting thought.


Could you imagine if you had to get Police Protection Insurance?
If you live in a high risk neighbourhood where there is a lot of muggings, homicides, break-ins and rapes maybe you couldn't find an insurance company that would cover you. Could you imagine if you got stabbed and had to pay your insurance deductible before the police would start the investigation? Would be cool for criminals to find out who doesn't have insurance. They could rob, rape and kill without any fear of police intervention.

What if your home caught fire and the closest fire station was not approved by your insurance company... and they had to send firemen from a station that was 5 miles away. Or maybe the house next door to you caught fire and they didn't have fire department insurance.




Healthcare should be the same as the police and the fire department. All deal with life and death situations. All services should be accesable to everyone, regardless of income or social stature.
There could (and should) be private companies that offer additional heathcare, police protection and fire protection services to those who can afford it, but any service that deals with life and death situations should NEVER EVER be put exclusively into the hands of private companies.

[Deward]

I watched this movie last night. I had to download it because no theatre within 50 miles of my house was showing it. I don't always agree with Michael Moore but this was his best movie in my opinion. I personally believe that a NHS would be good for us but I know the american governemnt would screw it up somehow so I am against it. My eyes were opened quite a bit when shown some of the other countries health care systems. We probably have beeter care here but the fact you can get everything cheap or free elsewhere is so huge. The scary part of the movie for me was seeing that most of the people in the movie actually had health insurance and that the companies were going out of their way to screw them.

Moore didn't attack just republicans in this movie either. Hilary Clinton got a pretty big bash as well. This is an issue that really should not be politicized. You are either for letting people die or not. It is pretty straight forward. I must say France or Canada are looking pretty nice right now.

I don't think we will ever see MHS in America though. The medical establishment would lose too much money and when you are lucky to get 50% of the people to get out and vote in an election then it will never happen. One fo the big statements in the movie was that in other countries, the government is afraid of their people...In America, people are afraid of their government. I so so agree with that statement.

It will only get worse...Maybe twenty years from now soemthing will change but sadly, America will be a third world country to do so. When 90% of americans are in the poverty class then maybe the sheep will get off their asses and do something. In the meantime, I am going to be saving up for a little vineyard in France.

[miir]

My eyes were opened quite a bit when shown some of the other countries health care systems.

Keep in mind that our healthcare system is not without it's flaws... as I imagine to also be true with England and France.

[Kluden]

There's pros and cons to all things. Obviously our health care system is flawed...majorly flawed. Its all about money.

I saw it, I liked it, really does prove the point well. My only complaint is, he didn't show enough of the "extreme" variety in the other countries.

I think the biggest complaint I have about the movie is that he showed some of the worst cases of american health issues...but conversely, he talked to 1 person, or 1 group from other countries. Show some of their worst case people and see what the deal is. Some sort of apples to apples comparison. Like the guy that needed the bone marrow transplant. Grab a case history for someone who needed the same in Canada/UK/France...I'm sure there was at least one. What did they do for him/her? Would have proven the point much better in my mind to show that in Canada, the person who needed a bone marrow transplant, got it, within a month, regardless of whether or not the person's body accepted the donor tissue...just that they did something that truly is a high risk, "experimental", procedure, quickly and free.


But overall, definitely worth seeing. Really enjoyed it more than his previous films.

I don't think the US could handle switching over to an NHS. Too much cash. But, the government could easily (relatively speaking) set a rulebook of regulations that the health insurance companies would have to work by. They do it with EPA regulations, why not health care? Say, for instance, mandate a no denial policy, along with a no drop policy. The government sets the pricing for premiums...as in, a MIN and MAX rate for certain pre-existing conditions. That way, while you won't be denied health insurance, if you are insanely ill, your premium will reflect that, but at least you are covered. This would cause such a huge disturbance, obviously, but all it would be is taking the profit out of the health insurance "business", and make it a "service". Its not perfect, but with a whole bunch of thought, government enforced regulations could work. Now, for the uninsured...

[miir]

to show that in Canada, the person who needed a bone marrow transplant, got it, within a month, regardless of whether or not the person's body accepted the donor tissue...just that they did something that truly is a high risk, "experimental", procedure, quickly and free.

They don't evaluate operations or procedures with labels like experimental or high risk in our healthcare system.
If someone needs or wants an operation, they get it.

If an operation/surgey is deemed to be not a life and death situation (such as cosmetic or elective), they will more than likely be put on a waiting list. If a person requires emergency surgery, there are no waiting lists.

In a situation like the fellow and the bone marrow transplant... If that were in Canada. He would likely have been put on a waiting list and if his condition worsened to the point were his life was at risk, he would be bumped up.

It's not perfect, but it works... for the most part.


In the US... in an ideal situation where you have insurance and the insurance will cover the procedure/operation, I don't doubt you guys get medical care that's second to none. But with all the stories that you hear/read about, it looks like a lot of people unfortunately fall through the cracks.