Update

[Kryshade]

I just felt like posting something else in regards to this game. Really I'm just hoping that it gives Miir and Kyoukan another place to post something to keep the entertainment flowing!

I've got my Burglar to lvl 17 at this point, and I have to say I'm really enjoying this game so far. Albeit I haven't played an MMO since original EQ, this one is fun for me. I play on the Silverlode server with my RL brother and sister, so I really like the fact the game has built in VOIP. I like my class a lot so far. (Sneaking up and backstabbing something is sooooo much fun) plus I can solo really well with this class. The quests are often simple delivery quests, or kill so many of such and such mob, but honestly, I like the hunting quests. I haven't gotten into anything real in depth yet quest wise, but I'm hopeful that comes in the higher levels.

I fixed the issues with the 7xxx line of Nvidia cards but underclocking my card. As assinine as is seems, the game runs smoother with my card settings turned down and the game settings turned up.... go figure that one out. I like the sheer massiveness of this game. The land area is freaking HUGE!

I think I'd actually like a larger set of skills. Right now I've got a full skill bar and 2 more skills on the second bar, but in looking at my future skills, as cool as they seem, there just doesn't seem to be a whole lot more. I like a huge variety of skills ala Guildwars to choose from. I know I may not use them all, but I just like them available.

Overall, I have to say that for just having been released, the game is pretty fun. The servers are stable, the quests I've run into aren't broken, the graphics (now) are really nice and the gameplay is a lot of fun.

Again I'll reiterate for Kyoukan and Miir that I haven't played another MMO since EQ, so I'm sure your opinions of how bad this game sucks compared to other out there are going to be brought up, but in life, perception is everything, and I perceive this game as being a lot of fun, just like I perceive Kyoukan as the antithesis to all that is good in the world!

[Kwonryu DragonFist]

So Burglar is fun then?

Champ sounds like a fun class for me, more straight up and personal!

IN YO FACE and SLICE N DICE!

No sneaky stuffs!

[Kryshade]

Yeah, I almost played a Champion since I like DPS classes. Thought about a Hunter too, but I played a ranger in EQ and wanted to try something different.

There's about 10 hunters for every other class, so I'm glad I didn't roll one of those. I haven't seen a ton of Champions so that may be a good one. Burglar is nice because it's a mix of DPS and utility. I have cool DPS skills, debuffs, stealth etc. Burglars get a really cool skill (2 actually) that allow them to start what's called a Conjunction. It's basically a group based combo attack that can have some pretty devastating effects. Burglars are the kings at initiating them, so I figured it would be a useful class. Oh... did I forget to mention they get a really good mez? Yep, on top of everything else I can mez humanoid characters for a good 30 seconds.

I've always played the "jack of all trades" class in a game because it usually keeps me entertained OMGIAMRETARDEDCAUSEALOTISTWOWORDS longer than very specific job duty classes. Burglar was the natural choice for me in this game, and so far I'm loving it!

[miir]

I like the sheer massiveness of this game. The land area is freaking HUGE!

I read somewhere that the landmass in LOTRO is less than 1/8 of Vanguard's. One of the coolest things in Vanguard is if you see a temple, castle, mountain, ruins, etc off in the distance, you can actually run to it. Everything you see, you can interact with. There are no invisible walls, no artifical restrictions preventing you from going anywhere.

And boats!
Boats are totally fucking cool.

I think I'd actually like a larger set of skills. Right now I've got a full skill bar and 2 more skills on the second bar, but in looking at my future skills, as cool as they seem, there just doesn't seem to be a whole lot more. I like a huge variety of skills ala Guildwars to choose from. I know I may not use them all, but I just like them available.

I found the animations for burglars skills to be pretty disappointing. Also, the sounds and mob reactions are pretty uninspiring.

I have a teen rogue alt in Vanguard. The two classes are pretty similar.

In Vanguard, depending on which type of weapons you have equipped, combat animations are very different. Backstabs with 2 daggers while stealthed have your character leaping up in the air and sweeping both daggers down.
There's a reactive skill that triggers when you get a skill crit. With a dagger and sword equipped, you bring both weapons together, thrust them forward then pull them apart. With 2 daggers, the same attack has your character spin around, thrust both daggers together straight out then pull them back in a circular motion around your body to double-stab the mob that's now behind you.
It's hard to describe but it looks very very cool.

Rogues get pretty standard rogue skills like pickpocket, poison/potion making, flash powders, stealth.

The combat sounds are also a lot more visceral than in LOTRO. You get audible cues when you crit or parry.

[Kryshade]

Vanguard sounded pretty cool to me to be honest. I remember following it before it ever launched being excited about it, but then it seems like it went downhill from there. I pretty muched ruined my wife to me ever playing another MMO game again after EQ, but since my brother and sister play LOTRO, I used that as an excuse to "hang out" with my family and she's cool with it, so low and behold, I'm playing LOTRO.

I think that technically from what I have seen that Vanguard is far and above any other MMO out right now. They aimed high and for the most part I think they implemented a lot of cool things. (Like your reference to combat animations).

I don't pretend that LOTRO is the greatest MMO out right now because frankly I wouldn't know. I can only speak from my brief experience with it, and that's that it's a rather simple (so far) and fun game. It could be that I'm playing a class type I've never played before (rogue, burglar, assassin whatever) and therefore it's new to me, or it could be that the game sucks ass, but since I'm able to chat in real time with my brother and sister who I don't get to see very much, I equate that to having a great time. I would recommend this game to anyone to try out. If I were to quit playing tomorrow, I'd feel like I got my $50 worth out of it, and when it all boils down, that's what any game, online or not should be able to do is make you feel like you were able to get your money's worth out of it.

[Xanupox]

I like the sheer massiveness of this game. The land area is freaking HUGE!

I read somewhere that the landmass in LOTRO is less than 1/8 of Vanguard's. One of the coolest things in Vanguard is if you see a temple, castle, mountain, ruins, etc off in the distance, you can actually run to it. Everything you see, you can interact with. There are no invisible walls, no artifical restrictions preventing you from going anywhere.

And boats!
Boats are totally fucking cool.

I think I'd actually like a larger set of skills. Right now I've got a full skill bar and 2 more skills on the second bar, but in looking at my future skills, as cool as they seem, there just doesn't seem to be a whole lot more. I like a huge variety of skills ala Guildwars to choose from. I know I may not use them all, but I just like them available.

I found the animations for burglars skills to be pretty disappointing. Also, the sounds and mob reactions are pretty uninspiring.

I have a teen rogue alt in Vanguard. The two classes are pretty similar.

In Vanguard, depending on which type of weapons you have equipped, combat animations are very different. Backstabs with 2 daggers while stealthed have your character leaping up in the air and sweeping both daggers down.
There's a reactive skill that triggers when you get a skill crit. With a dagger and sword equipped, you bring both weapons together, thrust them forward then pull them apart. With 2 daggers, the same attack has your character spin around, thrust both daggers together straight out then pull them back in a circular motion around your body to double-stab the mob that's now behind you.
It's hard to describe but it looks very very cool.

Rogues get pretty standard rogue skills like pickpocket, poison/potion making, flash powders, stealth.

The combat sounds are also a lot more visceral than in LOTRO. You get audible cues when you crit or parry.

Are you so fucking toolish?

I mean WTF? No one here gives a fuck about YOU, VANGUARD or ANYTHING you say... so why do you even bother posting? Its seriously one of the more retarded fucking things I have ever witnessed.

If VG was so good, why the fuck are you always posting on forums... forums not even VG related! Your game sucks, like you... and your life.

LOL @ U Miir.

[Kryshade]

Are you so fucking toolish?

I mean WTF? No one here gives a fuck about YOU, VANGUARD or ANYTHING you say... so why do you even bother posting? Its seriously one of the more retarded fucking things I have ever witnessed.

If VG was so good, why the fuck are you always posting on forums... forums not even VG related! Your game sucks, like you... and your life.

LOL @ U Miir.

Sorry Xanu, I thought Miirs post was actually informative and he made good comparisons between the two games. I know everyone is hyper sensitive about the whole Vanguard vs. LOTRO thing, but don't jump on someone if their post actually contains some useful information, which in this case it did. I don't see any reason to be a dick about that post.

[miir]

Vanguard sounded pretty cool to me to be honest. I remember following it before it ever launched being excited about it, but then it seems like it went downhill from there. I pretty muched ruined my wife to me ever playing another MMO game again after EQ, but since my brother and sister play LOTRO, I used that as an excuse to "hang out" with my family and she's cool with it, so low and behold, I'm playing LOTRO.

I think that technically from what I have seen that Vanguard is far and above any other MMO out right now. They aimed high and for the most part I think they implemented a lot of cool things. (Like your reference to combat animations).

I don't pretend that LOTRO is the greatest MMO out right now because frankly I wouldn't know. I can only speak from my brief experience with it, and that's that it's a rather simple (so far) and fun game. It could be that I'm playing a class type I've never played before (rogue, burglar, assassin whatever) and therefore it's new to me, or it could be that the game sucks ass, but since I'm able to chat in real time with my brother and sister who I don't get to see very much, I equate that to having a great time. I would recommend this game to anyone to try out. If I were to quit playing tomorrow, I'd feel like I got my $50 worth out of it, and when it all boils down, that's what any game, online or not should be able to do is make you feel like you were able to get your money's worth out of it.

I think what it boils down to is what someone is looking for in a MMOG.
For me, I enjoy something with more depth that will keep me interested for a long time. I didn;t get that feeling from LOTRO... much like I didn't get it from WOW.

I mean there's nothing wrong with a simple, casual MMOG... but it's not really what appeals to me personally.

About Vanguard being ambitious. I think they were probably too ambitious. There's still a lot of 'unimplemented' features that didn't make to release... because they ran out of time and money.

[miir]

Are you so fucking toolish?

I mean WTF? No one here gives a fuck about YOU, VANGUARD or ANYTHING you say... so why do you even bother posting? Its seriously one of the more retarded fucking things I have ever witnessed.

If VG was so good, why the fuck are you always posting on forums... forums not even VG related! Your game sucks, like you... and your life.

LOL @ U Miir.

What kind of mounts does LOTRO have?
Does it have boats?
What about unicorns, camels, shadowhounds, griffons or drakes?
Does it have player housing?
Or diplomacy?
Does it have an extensive faction system?

[Kryshade]

Actually there are mounts available at lvl 35. Most races get horses, hobbits and dwarves get ponies!

I don't buy a unicorn as a mount. Seriously, Unicorns are supposed to be pretty much ultra rare and untouchable by all but the purest of maidens if you go by fantasy standards. Having someone riding a unicorn as a mount is an atrocity!!

I also believe there will be player housing in the future, but I never understood the draw for this... why do I want a fake house in a game?

Faction is a good question... pretty much if its evil it hates you and if it's good it doesn't. Middle Earth is pretty much black or white when it comes to factions.

Gotta remember to keep everything in context. Comparing two completely different worlds like Middle Earth and whatever world Vanguard is set in isn't really feasible.

[Kwonryu DragonFist]

I read somewhere that the landmass in LOTRO is less than 1/8 of Vanguard's. One of the coolest things in Vanguard is if you see a temple, castle, mountain, ruins, etc off in the distance, you can actually run to it. Everything you see, you can interact with. There are no invisible walls, no artifical restrictions preventing you from going anywhere.

In Vanguard, depending on which type of weapons you have equipped, combat animations are very different. Backstabs with 2 daggers while stealthed have your character leaping up in the air and sweeping both daggers down.


Rogues get pretty standard rogue skills like pickpocket, poison/potion making, flash powders, stealth.

The combat sounds are also a lot more visceral than in LOTRO. You get audible cues when you crit or parry.

This makes it even harder choosing between LoTR and Vanguard!

[miir]

If I still had a buddy key, I'd give it to you to try Vanguard for 10 days.

[Kaldaur]

I wanted to get into VG, miir, but unfortunately my comp is four years old and I couldn't run it effectively. Combine that with the buggy beta I tested, and I didnt' see the point in investing money into it. Maybe in a few years that team will get back together to do another game, and by then I'll have a souped up system. Vanguard just didn't run well for me, so despite following it since the beginning, I couldn't play it without serious chugging and lag.

[miir]

wanted to get into VG, miir, but unfortunately my comp is four years old and I couldn't run it effectively. Combine that with the buggy beta I tested, and I didnt' see the point in investing money into it.

I hear ya.
In beta the game was terrible.. almost unplayable for me.

Maybe in a few years that team will get back together to do another game, and by then I'll have a souped up system. Vanguard just didn't run well for me, so despite following it since the beginning, I couldn't play it without serious chugging and lag.

There was a HUGE leap in performance from the end of beta to release. Getting rid of the debug code and a shitload of engine optimizations made the game playable for me.
They are constanty adding content, fixing bugs and optimizing the client. Right now, it's a hell of a lot closer to what I would consider 'release ready', but it's still got a ways to go to be close to LOTRO in terms of fit and finish.

I'd say another 2-3 months at this rate.

[Janx]

What it came down for me is animation/models. I fucking HATED vanguard in those 2 areas, especially the PC models. I also prefer high res textures/artistic style instead of high amounts of bump mapping / tech features. Slideshow for me != fun.

That said Turbine needs to hurry the fuck up and fix some of the limited features ;( UI customization/chat filters/settings not saving/mem leaks (swear to god I crash at least once an hour) etc..

Not sure how vanboi's compare to lotroboi's but jesus christ they are rabid ;( ANY comparison to WoW is likely to get you into a fight (just check the lotro forums).

[miir]

What it came down for me is animation/models. I fucking HATED vanguard in those 2 areas, especially the PC models. I also prefer high res textures/artistic style instead of high amounts of bump mapping / tech features. Slideshow for me != fun.

When was the last time you played Vanguard, Janx?

[Dregor Thule]

I gotta give props to a game that has a class named Burglar. Not props enough to play it, but still. *raises the roof*

[Dregor Thule]

What it came down for me is animation/models. I fucking HATED vanguard in those 2 areas, especially the PC models. I also prefer high res textures/artistic style instead of high amounts of bump mapping / tech features. Slideshow for me != fun.

When was the last time you played Vanguard, Janx?

Don't answer that question. We've down this road before in the EQ2 forums, and people just have different ideas between art and graphics. Let it go!

[Janx]

What it came down for me is animation/models. I fucking HATED vanguard in those 2 areas, especially the PC models. I also prefer high res textures/artistic style instead of high amounts of bump mapping / tech features. Slideshow for me != fun.

When was the last time you played Vanguard, Janx?

Don't answer that question. We've down this road before in the EQ2 forums, and people just have different ideas between art and graphics. Let it go!

Yeah , its a question of opinion. I like WoW's/LoTRO art style over "realistic" type works. I'm a sucker for vibrant colored worlds.

And while things may have changed in vanguard concerning models/animations, I'm not prepared to plunk down the $$ to reactivate

[cid]

/hi5 kry!!!

[miir]

Don't answer that question. We've down this road before in the EQ2 forums, and people just have different ideas between art and graphics. Let it go!

It was an honest question.
They did a complete model overhaul in the last phase of beta. The models previous to that were awful. You could barely tell the races apart.

[Kryshade]

Holy Shit! I do believe we have a civilized conversation going on here! Woohoo, props to everyone!

Seriously though, I think Miir hit the nail on the head. It boils down to what your looking for. I'm not the hard core MMO'er I used to be, so for me, a more casual MMo is exactly what I want/need. Vanguard I believe is the technically superior MMO, and as such is geared for more hardcore people. It also seems to be a bit more "high fantasy" in it's setting whereas LOTRO is more for the laid back casual MMO'er. It's all a matter of taste/function really.

Props especially to Miir for making/supporting his position on Vanguard in a mature fashion.

Now fuck all of you!!!

[Moonwynd]

Miir did not come here to have an intelligent debate - it just evolved into such because no one took the bait far enough to turn it into a shitfest of flaming replies.

I don't mind lively debate - but Miir has simply taken this forum as an opportunity to espouse his disdain for LOTRO and his love for Vanguard. The initial reply by Miir was just another in a long line of trollishness by him in this forum.

However, his posts in this thread did evolve into intelligent conversation - but it was an accident...and most likely a singular occurence.

Maybe Miir is still angry that his EQII threads were treated the same way he is treating the LOTRO threads...who knows.

[miir]

Nah, I just get bored of trolling sometimes.

[Ogbar]

I think what it boils down to is what someone is looking for in a MMOG.
For me, I enjoy something with more depth that will keep me interested for a long time. I didn;t get that feeling from LOTRO... much like I didn't get it from WOW.

I mean there's nothing wrong with a simple, casual MMOG... but it's not really what appeals to me personally.

About Vanguard being ambitious. I think they were probably too ambitious. There's still a lot of 'unimplemented' features that didn't make to release... because they ran out of time and money.

I think you're right - it does boil down to what someone's looking for.

I learned a long time ago that Everquest was a really bad fit for me, but as it was the best game at the time, and I had made some incredibly good friends, I tried to stick with it. When I first read about Vanguard, it seemed like it was catering towards the elements of Everquest that didnt work for me: requiring large contiguous blocks of time, requiring strong allegiances with other players to seek out meaningful content, and requiring the memorization of a galaxy of magical weapons/armor-parts/items. Some of these elements go hand in hand with any MMOG, but it just read like Vanguard was really embracing it more than others. I can fully understand why veterans of raid-heavy guilds would be drawn to such a game - but it certainly sounded like a poor fit to me.

In contrast, I have been having a ball playing City of Heroes - which just celebrated it's 3rd aniversary. It seems to be a great fit for me, allowing for meaningful content to be soloed (though all content is much better and more fun in groups), allowing significance in being a part of a Supergroup (their name for Guilds) but not making it a practical requirement. And it also has a very de-emphasized economy, and players can improve their characters without having to have intimate knowledge of an extensive item database (though that may now change with the invention system). So I've been quite happy with that game.

But all that said, my nephews showed me LotRO a few weeks back and let me try it out. I was rather surprised with how much fun I had with it. The quests (at least up to the mid/high teens) have been very entertaining, and overall I like the combat system. And compared to my first experiences to Everquest, I like that I can fight something meaningful without having to endure a rediculous downtime aftwards.

So I have signed on with LotRO, and I think the up front $200 bucks is an incredibly good offer. I've been playing MMOGs for almost 10 years now, and throughout that time I have been supporting, typically, 2 or 3 accounts. That's a lot of money over that span. The gamble is would I maintain that account for at least 20 months, to break even: my track record shows that I would. The only games I bailed out on in less than a year were Shadowband and Final Fantasy. With both of those games, I had serious reservations about thier UI and overall gameplay and stuck with them a month or so to see if they could prove me wrong. They of course didnt. With LotRO, I find no serious flaws in the UI, the gameplay is good, the world is gorgeous, and though it has a moderate economy, it seems (at least thus far) that quests can get you items that allow you to continue to play at a productive rate. Add to that the whole LotR back story hook, and it adds up to a really good product - at least for me.

I'm glad you found a good fit with Vanguard, and maybe it has some features that I would like. But as it stands now, I plan to keep playing CoH and to have fun with LotRO for a nice change of pace.

[Nali]

What are you talking about Vanguard lacking combat animations? It has some of the best that I've seen.

[Voronwë]

i think LOTRO is pretty fun

i went through beta, and subscribed.

i'm definitely not a hard core MMO player anymore, so i'm just looking for a fun game with interesting content and not too wrought with time sinks

so far so good

[Aslanna]

What kind of mounts does LOTRO have?
Does it have boats?
What about unicorns, camels, shadowhounds, griffons or drakes?
Does it have player housing?
Or diplomacy?
Does it have an extensive faction system?

Boats are actually a selling point of Vanguard? God I hated boats in EQ. Nothing beats running to a zone and seeing the boat sailing away and have to sit there fucking waiting for 20 minutes doing nothing. And once it did arrive having to sit on it and wait 20 more minutes doing nothing while hoping you didn't get pushed off during zoning.

Hopefully they did the faction better than it was done in EQ. One of the most pointless things ever.

All that other stuff doesn't interest me.

[kyoukan]

In vanguard you get your own boats and sail them yourself.

I'm pretty sure they broke all the boats in EQ and the current live team is too incompetent to fix them. There's been translocator gnomes at every dock since I started playing again, except for in the new expansion (which sucks worse than Luclin did).

[Kwonryu DragonFist]

Translocator Gnomes, the fix for all problems!

You control your own boats in VG? Are we talkin small canoes, dingys or huge frigats here?

[Janx]

I thought the combat animations were pretty good in VG/EQ2, its the day to day animations that just fail to deliver. For example: Jump on ANY race in WoW and watch the animations, theres realism and weight to each race. Now go jump in VG and you get this stiff animation that looks like it just plays in reverse on the way back down.

LOTRO has some really glaring animations as well, if your running and jump as a hobbit, you "warp" back to the ground/running animation about a foot before you'd land.

[Kwonryu DragonFist]

Yeah EQ2's (martial arts) animations for the Monks were good! Much inspiration from existing wushu-stances and whatnot.

[miir]

You control your own boats in VG? Are we talkin small canoes, dingys or huge frigats here?

I have a Sloop.
It's a fairly small, single mast boat.
If you do a google image search for sloop you can get a good idea of what one looks like.
I've carried an entire group on it to hunt on offshore islands. Even when chunking nobody fell off or was left behind. If you lag, the game will drop you right back on the deck of the boat.

There are Sloops, Caravels and Galleons.
There are also 3 different continental styles.
You can get them made in different colours, with different sail styles and with different bow designs.

[Kwonryu DragonFist]

GALLEONS!

We're talkin' bigships here!

I want a slavegalleon!

[Moonwynd]

The boats sound like a cool idea.

My favorite part of boats in EQ was being able to jump in the water at the BB docks and swim under the boat and magically find yourself inside.

I seriously can't believe the boats in EQ are still broken - that's sad.

[Winnow]

Getting from Halas to Steamfont took for freaking ever back in the original game. If you nodded off on the boat and missed your stop, add another 30+ minutes.

[Kryshade]

The boat in EQ was cool the first time... maybe the second. After that it sucked. There was a small bit of adrenaline involved with hauling ass in butcherblock while people are shouting the boat is coming, wondering if you were gonna make it. It was a blast if you did catch it, but it sucked balls if you didn't (which was more often than not).

Player usable boats is a cool idea. Especially if you could bring groups and do at sea naval battles!

[Kwonryu DragonFist]

And everyone you defeat in PvP has to work as a slave in your galleon for 90 mins rowing like hell!

That characters skin/texture also get demoted to the slave-skin (unwashed/unshaven, wearing a loincloth and a chain around the neck).

Should motivate people to try and win in PvP

You could also buy different NPCs below the decks that whip the slaves and spout different kinds of profanity.
The most expensive NPC could have a cat with nine tails!
Then you can also buy a NPC-drummer for the rhythm.
The more expensive ones can play faster beats.


If you (as a slave) logoff, it won't free you from the chains, it's 90 mins even if you logoff or not!
If you decide to logoff, your char will be AI controlled during that time. After 90 mins, you are free!

[Dregor Thule]

Needs more Viking Longboats. FOR ODIN!

[Kwonryu DragonFist]

Needs more Viking Longboats. FOR ODIN!

YES!

BERSERKERS!