RIAA petitioning Judge to lower artist royalties...

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RIAA petitioning Judge to lower artist royalties...

Post by Animalor »

... on stuff like ring tones and other digital formats.
In recent petitions to a judge, the RIAA is asking that the current royalties paid to artists be lowered for such recordings as cell phone ring tones and various other digital recordings. Executive VP, Steven Marks, while discussing these recent actions went on record to say, "We hope the judges will restore the proper balance by reducing the rate and moving to a more flexible percentage rate structure so that record companies can continue to create the sound recordings that drive revenues for music publishers."
Now does the term "other digital recordings" allude to stuff like iTunes and other online stores?

I find this all very hypocritical of the RIAA considering their whole anti-Napster routine was labeled as a defense of artists's rights and royalties.

Now more than ever I'm looking for a way where I can buy the music and that ALL the money from my purchase can go to the artists themselves and not to line the pockets of the RIAA and the big publishers.
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Post by Nick »

and the RIAA takes another step towards extinction.
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Post by Sueven »

The most offensive part of this is their justification. Why do they want artists royalties lowered?
so that record companies can continue to create the sound recordings that drive revenues for music publishers."
For who? For music publishers. Why should we be at all concerned about what drives the revenues for music publishers? We should be concerned about what drives the revenues for music PRODUCERS. They're saying: We want the courts to protect the current structure of our industry for no reason other than the fact that our revenues depend on the structure being maintained. That's ABSURD.

Now, I'm sure an argument could be made that, for music production to be a viable economic action, music publishers need to make revenue. But there are two things to be said here:

1. That argument is not made, from what I can see.
2. Saying that music publishers need to be profitable for the music industry as a whole to be successful does not dictate any particular regime of industry structure. There are many different potential structures in which publishers could be profitable.
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Post by Hesten »

Yeah, i saw that article too, and wonder who the fuck were stupid enough to try to get this lobby work done.
Basically they say "fuck the artists, we want more money", and expect the laws to be arranged to fit into that world view.
If they didnt loose enough support after suing kids, kids after their father died, suing people without computers and so on, they are sure gonna loose some more support over this one.

I REALLY hope the artists are beginning to see the light and saying screw the music companies, we can do this on our own.
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Post by Kaldaur »

The rise of websites such as MySpace, the rise of small-firm music producing labels, and the continued inability of the RIAA to adapt to the new technology of the 21st century makes me very happy. We're seeing artist-driven markets emerging as large scale record labels become too expensive or too greedy for artists to deal with.
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Post by Sargeras »

RIAA to music producers:

"We're here to fight for your right to protect your music, but we just don't want you to make as much money for it."
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Post by kyoukan »

uhh, the RIAA represents the music companies, not the artists. how is this unusual? recording artists have been battling the RIAA since it was established.
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Post by miir »

Are you guys dense?
Why is any of this surprising?
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Post by Sueven »

Are you guys dense?
Why is any of this surprising?
Name one person in this thread who claimed to be surprised. Plenty of people claimed to be disgusted. No one claimed to be surprised.
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Post by kyoukan »

I think he means surprised because it isn't even worth discussing. The RIAA exists to make more money for huge record companies, not artists. Most artists despise the RIAA because they routinely lobby to fuck them out of money, and have since they began.

It is like posting an article and getting all outraged over an auto industry lobbyist trying to get tax breaks on car manufacturing.

Internet forum users love to hate the RIAA because they are trying to stop them from stealing music, but they are just doing the job that they were appointed to do. Blame capitalism and shitty record labels instead.
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Post by Sueven »

The RIAA existing is a direct consequence of capitalism and shitty record labels.

The RIAA being successful in efforts like this is directly anti-capitalist. In true capitalism, outmoded business models die off, they don't receive legal protection from courts or legislatures.
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Post by Truant »

Joey Ramone wrote:The (RIAA) took my baby away...
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Post by kyoukan »

Sueven wrote:The RIAA existing is a direct consequence of capitalism and shitty record labels.

The RIAA being successful in efforts like this is directly anti-capitalist. In true capitalism, outmoded business models die off, they don't receive legal protection from courts or legislatures.
That simply is not true. If a corporation or entity has the money and/or resources to stifle competition then it is perfectly capitalistic to do so. capitalism as a philosophy exists to make a profit, it isn't economic or technocratic darwinism (free market capitalism might be, but there is no such thing in reality).

and in this case, this isn't the government protecting the RIAA. It is the RIAA trying to get the government to protect another group less.
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Post by Sueven »

Free market capitalism is like Communism. The fact that there is no perfect manifestation of it doesn't mean that we don't strive to attain it.

Protecting the other group less = protecting the RIAA more. I'm sure you can find more appropriate examples of the RIAA trying to encourage a regulatory scheme maximally favorable to their interests if you care to.
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Post by Winnow »

Gates is more open as he gets older:

http://www.neowin.net/index.php?act=view&id=36511
Gates says DRM has 'huge problems'

Microsoft recently held a get together for a small group of high-profile bloggers ahead of the Mix Conference. The bloggers has full access to Microsoft chairman Bill Gates in an hour-long Q&A session and were able to fire off any question under the sun that they wanted to ask.

With Microsoft's 30GB Zune player having been recently released to go head-to-head with Apple's ever-dominant iPod, a topic of discussion pointed towards Digital Rights Management (DRM).Surprisingly, Gates was quite frank on the situation and expressed his disappointment in the overall situation with DRM.

According to Michael Arrington of TechCrunch, Gates noted that DRM "causes too much pain for legitimate buyers" and overall is not an effective solution. He went on to say that "DRM is not where it should be, but you won’t get me to say that there should be usage models and different payment models for usage. At the end of the day, incentive systems do make a difference, but we don’t have it right with incentives or interoperability."

When it comes to music files, Bill Gates simply had this to say in summary; “People should just buy a CD and rip it. You are legal then.”
The CD thing works but it only took me a minute to find an app that would convert DRM files to MP3s. Converting DRM to MP3 is sort of the same principle. You pay for the music and then convert it to a format you can use as you wish.
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Post by Zaelath »

Winnow wrote:Gates is more open as he gets older:

http://www.neowin.net/index.php?act=view&id=36511
Gates says DRM has 'huge problems'

Microsoft recently held a get together for a small group of high-profile bloggers ahead of the Mix Conference. The bloggers has full access to Microsoft chairman Bill Gates in an hour-long Q&A session and were able to fire off any question under the sun that they wanted to ask.

With Microsoft's 30GB Zune player having been recently released to go head-to-head with Apple's ever-dominant iPod, a topic of discussion pointed towards Digital Rights Management (DRM).Surprisingly, Gates was quite frank on the situation and expressed his disappointment in the overall situation with DRM.

According to Michael Arrington of TechCrunch, Gates noted that DRM "causes too much pain for legitimate buyers" and overall is not an effective solution. He went on to say that "DRM is not where it should be, but you won’t get me to say that there should be usage models and different payment models for usage. At the end of the day, incentive systems do make a difference, but we don’t have it right with incentives or interoperability."

When it comes to music files, Bill Gates simply had this to say in summary; “People should just buy a CD and rip it. You are legal then.”
The CD thing works but it only took me a minute to find an app that would convert DRM files to MP3s. Converting DRM to MP3 is sort of the same principle. You pay for the music and then convert it to a format you can use as you wish.
assuming the DRM content isn't time limited....
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Post by Winnow »

Zaelath wrote: assuming the DRM content isn't time limited....
Convert it to mp3 before the time limit expires. Not saying it's convenient at all but it's possible to do until something else is dreamed up for protection schemes. (I assume it's possible, don't have a Zune to try it)
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Post by Zaelath »

Winnow wrote:
Zaelath wrote: assuming the DRM content isn't time limited....
Convert it to mp3 before the time limit expires. Not saying it's convenient at all but it's possible to do until something else is dreamed up for protection schemes. (I assume it's possible, don't have a Zune to try it)
No I'm saying it's not the same unless the content isn't time limited. Otherwise it's clearly a "rental" not a "purchase", or in the case of a Zune, a loan or demo.

Format shifting to remove the time limit isn't protected under fair use.
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Post by Winnow »

Zaelath wrote:
Format shifting to remove the time limit isn't protected under fair use.
I don't see an issue with using DRM for time limited media. Sorry, hadn't had my coffee yet this morning.

Zune's requirement that all wireless transfers be time limited is retarded but for the rental model, it makes sense. Zune would have been wildly popular if you could transfer non DRM songs without time limits as well as the three day limit on DRM music. They also severely limited the Zune's wireless capability so you can't do useful things like transfer music from your computer wirelessly or access your unlimted subscription to the Zune music service from wireless hotspots. Zune could have been awesome. Hopefully some other company will use the same idea but not limit it. Hopefully that company is Creative or SanDisk and not Apple.
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Post by Winnow »

"US Music Publishers Sue AllofMP3 for $1.65 Trillion USD "

I don't think they're suing for enough. It would have been more reasonable to sue for eleventy billion. All of this money should go to pay for the war in Iraq that Russian isn't helping with!
US Music Publishers Sue AllofMP3 for $1.65 Trillion USD

By Scott M. Fulton, III, BetaNews

December 21, 2006, 6:44 PM

In a move curious only due to its relatively late timing, the major record production labels in the US have filed suit in federal court against Russian online music distributor AllofMP3.com, seeking $150,000 USD for each single violation of copyright infringement for tracks the site posted without authorization.

The lawsuit, brought by Sony BMG, EMI, Warner Music Group, and Universal Music Group - the "big four" - along with Arista Records and Capitol Records, estimates at least 11 million individual intellectual property violations. Thus the publishers are collectively seeking damages equaling the gross national product of many countries.

Their action comes five months after music publishers in Britain sued AllofMP3 in High Court there, and two months after a court in Denmark ordered ISPs in that country to block customer access to AllofMP3.

Last month, special delegates from the US Government met with their Russian counterparts to discuss measures that country must take in order to meet compliance standards for entry into the World Trade Organization. An agreement between the two nations last month specifically mentioned AllofMP3.com as one site that the Russian government must make an effort to keep under control.

In a statement last September before the US Chamber of Commerce, US trade representative Susan Schwab pointed to AllofMP3 as one of a mere handful of principal obstacles Russia must clear if it is to formally join the global economy.

"So far, the Russian authorities have allowed this site to operate with impunity," said Schwab. "We have made clear to Russia that improved protection for intellectual property is critical to its joining the WTO and we have specifically raised our concerns with allofmp3.com, the drafting of a new section of the Civil Code, and other key issues. We are very supportive of our industries' concerns in Russia and we are working to achieve better IPR protection and enforcement there."

For its part, Russia has pledged to pass laws by June of next year that would render AllofMP3's activities officially illegal.

Unlike P2P proprietors, which have defended themselves by saying they're only responsible for the networks their technology facilitates, and not the traffic that passes over them, AllofMP3.com charges subscription fees and/or a la carte costs per album (as opposed to per song), and hosts allegedly unauthorized tracks through its conventional, centralized server. In recent days, however, customers worldwide have found it difficult to pay, with Visa and MasterCard having disqualified AllofMP3 from payment service. The site's director general, Vadim Mamotin, has blasted the credit card services for their disqualification action, calling them "arbitrary, capricious and discriminatory," and adding they "lack the authority to adjudicate the legality of Allofmp3's activities."

While the site has been taken offline for days at a time throughout this year, its parent company, Mediaservices, appears to be enjoying the publicity and is spoiling for a good fight. In recent statements, it has claimed its service abides by current Russian law. It claims to pay royalties to ROMS, the copyright holder service sanctioned by the Russian Parliament, and to FAIR (Rights holders Federation for Collective Copyright Management of Works Used Interactively). Under Russian law, as long as a distributor of music pays 15% of its collection fees to ROMS, it's a legal service.

Yet the Recording Industry Association of America has stated it doesn't recognize ROMS as a legitimate royalties collector, nor do its affiliated labels actually receive allotments from either party. No agreement with record labels outside of Russia has apparently been negotiated with these agencies. Until that time, the Russian government itself could be the direct recipient of AllofMP3's purported royalties.

So the problem that US regulators, diplomats, and US-based music publishers now face is whether any rulings or threats they make - even if the publishers win their case here - will have any bearing upon lawmakers' decisions in Russia, where isolationism has recently one again reared its ugly head. Since 2003, the IFPI - which represents the recording industry worldwide - has been drawing attention to repeated postponements by the Russian Parliament and Russian courts to take any action toward hardening software piracy laws and enforcement.

That spotlight may have unintentionally created a kind of virtual petrie dish for unauthorized distributors such as AllofMP3 to have a base of support from individuals who see the site's very existence as a kind of crusade against organized music. With Russian senior officials acting of late as if they've been missing the Cold War, the kind of "line in the sand" that US officials have been drawing on this issue may not be taken as an invitation of friendship.
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Post by Nick »

I think because it's a Russian company and it's all hosted in Russa there isn't much they can do about it.

I hope so anyway.
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Post by Tangurena »

You should look up "mechanical royalties." Mechanical royalties are the moneys that artists get for recordings. They used to get $1 to $1.50 per LP or cassette sold. Along comes some new technology that the recording companies want to promote. So they convince the artists to help subsidize the new technology and cut the mechanical royalties to 10cents per album sold. That new technology? Compact Discs. Artists still get 10 to 15 cents per album now, and record companies have discontinued making LPs, not because CDs are better audio, but because CDs give about 50x the profit margins of LPs: medium quantities of CDs can be made for 20 cents each, sell for 2x the price of LPs and have 1/10th the royalty payments.

Oh, and one last thing about those mechanical royalties. Back in the 1920s and 1930s, when albums were very brittle, some would break in shipping, so the standard recording contract only pays on 90% of the albums shipped, because back in the 20s and 30s, about 10% of the albums would break shipping them from the pressing plant to the stores. You have to work pretty hard to break a compact disc, but the record companies still take that 10% shipping loss deduction for all albums shipped.
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Post by Animalor »

Quick tip for the Zune - Rename those music files to another extension (ie jpg), then do the wifi transfer and rename it to mp3 on the other Zune.

BAM, no DRM (or so I heard).

Edit* it's a bit more complicated that that. Just looked it up. For the interested.

http://hmtk.com/blog/index.php?/archive ... ller!.html
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Post by Truant »

Why the fuck would I buy a zune? (or anyone for that matter)
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Post by Aslanna »

Down with Zune! People who buy it deserve to have their MP3s poof in three days!
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Post by Animalor »

I've seen one (they're not for sale up here yet) and think they look awesome.
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Post by Drolgin Steingrinder »

Tangurena wrote:You should look up "mechanical royalties." Mechanical royalties are the moneys that artists get for recordings. They used to get $1 to $1.50 per LP or cassette sold. Along comes some new technology that the recording companies want to promote. So they convince the artists to help subsidize the new technology and cut the mechanical royalties to 10cents per album sold. That new technology? Compact Discs. Artists still get 10 to 15 cents per album now, and record companies have discontinued making LPs, not because CDs are better audio, but because CDs give about 50x the profit margins of LPs: medium quantities of CDs can be made for 20 cents each, sell for 2x the price of LPs and have 1/10th the royalty payments.

Oh, and one last thing about those mechanical royalties. Back in the 1920s and 1930s, when albums were very brittle, some would break in shipping, so the standard recording contract only pays on 90% of the albums shipped, because back in the 20s and 30s, about 10% of the albums would break shipping them from the pressing plant to the stores. You have to work pretty hard to break a compact disc, but the record companies still take that 10% shipping loss deduction for all albums shipped.

At least the recording companies have eased up a little bit.

A standard recording contract for a first-time band in the late 70s early 80s would be as follows:
10-15% royalty (based on a per record cost of around $5).
10% breakage fee
25% packaging fee
and then the recoups:
Half of tour costs
half of video shoot costs
all of studio time, any advances etc etc etc.
and then an agent's fee, which might very well be 20%.

A band selling 2 million copies of an album could easily end up with a final tally of roughly $100,000 paid out to the band in its entirety - $20k per member, before taxes.

If you read some of the more interesting tell-all biographies of 1970s-1980s rock bands you'll find that the bands often ended up paying for the drug habits of everyone on the tour - from drivers and roadies through tour managers and VIP guests. All of it completely recoupable by the studio under the contract terms. The amount of successful bands that ended up deeply in debt to their record labels - basically slaves to the company for the duration of their contract (often 5-8 years or for 6-8 albums, meaning that if the label decided not to release anything new the bands couldn't work as musicians elsewhere) is staggering.

Disgusting, and though it's generall better now, it isn't *much* better. As far as I understand, artists don't get royalties from having their songs played on the radio / MTV etc in the US, do they? That's actually one of their major incomes here.
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Post by Tangurena »

Drolgin, the radio stations pay a large fee each year for a license to broadcast music, and when I was a DJ back in college, we submitted play lists as the official excuse was that the license agencies paid royalties based on market share multiplied by amount of plays. Every artist that hired an audit team to audit royalties ends up getting a large check out of it. Everyone. The license agencies and record companies cheat artists 100% of the time.

Some record contracts are pretty egregious. One infamous example was the group TLC. For their album Crazy Sexy Cool, the album brought in $50,000,000+ in sales, yet the three artists got to split $50,000 total. They ended up sueing.

The record industry likes to claim that if music gets ripped off, then artists won't make the stuff. Currently, artists get less than 1% of revenues. And they still cheat the artists every chance they can get
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