Tour de France stage discussions

Siji · Post by **Siji** » July 31, 2006, 12:43 pm

Anyone ever wonder if they're just sick of America holding the title for so long? I mean.. couldn't this all have been done discreetly until the B sample was done? Do we really need to see this play out in the media..

By the way, what ever happened with Tyler? Is he gone for good, or just a little while?

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » July 31, 2006, 1:00 pm

I am honestly not sure what is taking them so long with the B sample. But then again, the time it took USDA (is that what it is called?) to handle Justin Gaitlin (the sprinter) and his test...

I highly doubt it has anything to do with him being American. Look at what happened just before TdF started.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » July 31, 2006, 1:13 pm

In sports, there needs to be "enhanced" leagues where drugs are legal. You know damn well that all the viewers would watch the roided up athletes.

Competition involves pumping your body with drugs these days. Lets embrace it. Give the official pro sport athletes special medical coverage (paid for by the pro leagues) for their protracted health issues as long as they sign a waiver acknowledging that they are signing their death warrant when they sign the contract for their professional sport. Drugs would only be legal for professional athletes. College and all other sports would be clean with the added clause of banning players from professional sports if they are caught using before they reach the pros.

This would be much more entertaining. I'd love to see some of the freaky things that would happen as players went nuts trying to get an edge. As a side benefit, it might boost our medical research and provide some useful drugs in the process. It's a win/win.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » July 31, 2006, 7:18 pm

as far as i'm concerned there are no serious medical risks associated with safe anabolic steroids, if one doesn't abuse them. taken in moderation and without an old or shared needle, the side effects are minimal.

i guess i'm supposed to post some links to back this up but i really don't feel like it right now. maybe later!

noel · Post by **noel** » August 5, 2006, 10:13 am

B Sample confirms A sample. Grats Floyd Landis. First ever to win the tour and have it forever go down with an asterisk. Nothing will change that at this point.

http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/10646.0.html

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » August 5, 2006, 11:53 am

Maybe you can answer me this. Is it possible to be tested numerous times over the tour and only have high levels of testosterone in your system one of those times? I didn't think of it as something you could take as a quick power-up Mario style.

noel · Post by **noel** » August 5, 2006, 3:27 pm

I wouldn't think so. I'd have at least expected that the samples he was tested with (he was tested six times during the tour) would all be consistent if the argument he was using -- that the testosterone to epitestosterone ratio in his body was a natural result -- was truly natural. As it is he had a single anomolous result that was confirmed by both an A and a B sample.

I do believe that there was somehow a performance enhancing substance within his body when he finished at Morzine (stage 17, the one in question). I'm willing to also believe that he never intended to take it and had no knowledge of it... though I sadly find that a stretch, but for sure he did not win the tour clean and he should not keep the win.

To be clear I'd give 50/50 odds that Lemond, Indurain, Riis, Ullrich, Patani and Armstrong didn't win clean, but the world will never know.

I'm actually very glad that the B sample (as expected) came back consistent with the A sample. Any other result would have been actually worse for cycling.

Grats Oscar Periero. Thanks to absolutely apalling team tactics all through the Tour and incredible grit and determination once you got the jersey, you've now won the Tour de France! This is a lot like when Landaluze won the Dauphine because the teams got lazy and didn't chase.

Amazing.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » August 5, 2006, 3:58 pm

noel wrote:Right, but if it's 11:1 because the epitestosterone is super low, that's a whole different can of worms. You wouldn't lower any hormone level to enhance performance. I wish I didn't even have to think about this shit.

Read a bit about this today and as far as I understand this is actually incorrect. When you add testosterone through tablets the amount of both testosterone and epitestosterone that the body creates will go down. But you can not add epitestosterone, so the level of it will be very low. At least that is how a Norwegian hormone specialist explained it in the paper today.

noel wrote: Grats Oscar Periero. Thanks to absolutely apalling team tactics all through the Tour and incredible grit and determination once you got the jersey, you've now won the Tour de France! This is a lot like when Landaluze won the Dauphine because the teams got lazy and didn't chase.

Ain't that the truth. Wonder how hard Team Mobile and CSC are kicking themselves right about now. "He is no threat!". Huge kudos to Pereiro though, he truly rode his heart out even on the stage when he knew he would lose his jersey (and not to mention the time trial).

Drolgin Steingrinder · Post by **Drolgin Steingrinder** » August 5, 2006, 4:11 pm

noel wrote: To be clear I'd give 50/50 odds that Lemond, Indurain, Riis, Ullrich, Patani and Armstrong didn't win clean, but the world will never know.

50/50? You're way too fucking kind. 100 will get you 101 that Riis won clean. Same goes for Pantani, Ullrich and Indurain. Lemond - I don't know. Armstrong? No chance. I wouldn't even give you 1:100000.

noel · Post by **noel** » August 5, 2006, 5:31 pm

Of all of them, the one I would put the most money on to have won dirty was Pantani. I like Pantani, but does anyone really believe a Giro Tour double is possible anymore?

I didn't really follow Pro Cycling until '97 so it's hard for me to say but based on what I've seen in the past few years and what I've learned recently I agree that 50/50 was way too kind... that said it was way too kind for a reason... 1) I fucking hate the fact that I probably haven't watched a clean tour in my lifetime. 2) I didn't want to offend any people of a different citizenship (namely Danes) who might think in my frustration I was lumping Riis or whomever into the same category as the rest of these fucking cheaters.

Kelsh, I had no idea about that. Makes perfect sense. I know so much more about T:E than I ever wanted to, it's not funny.

Drolgin Steingrinder · Post by **Drolgin Steingrinder** » August 5, 2006, 8:00 pm

Lump all you want. All his tactical genius aside, he still won dirty, I'm sure!