Here goes this years Tour de France

Tegellan · Post by **Tegellan** » June 30, 2006, 9:06 am

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_s ... 132320.stm

Seems like they just threw out all the interesting riders based on a suspicion. I must admit doing that is ballsy, but i also find it quite excessive. This years Tour will be a lot less interesting for sure now.

On the upside it may give some of the lesser known riders a chance though.

noel · Post by **noel** » June 30, 2006, 9:19 am

I called this a week ago, but holy fuck. This year's tour is totally fucked.

At this rate, George Hincapie 'will' win the tour.

I guess in light of this, I'm picking Landis or Leipheimer to win the tour.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » June 30, 2006, 9:25 am

Ballsy yes. Excessive? I am not so sure. I think a lot of people involved with cycling are sick and tired of how dirty it is and want to get it cleaned out some at least. Yeah it will put a major dampener on this year's Tour for sure but it might be a huge step forward for the sport itself.

That said.. holy shit.. wow.

noel · Post by **noel** » June 30, 2006, 9:36 am

Kelshara wrote:Ballsy yes. Excessive? I am not so sure. I think a lot of people involved with cycling are sick and tired of how dirty it is and want to get it cleaned out some at least. Yeah it will put a major dampener on this year's Tour for sure but it might be a huge step forward for the sport itself.

That said.. holy shit.. wow.

I don't think it's ballsy at all. Lets be clear. Sevilla and Ullrich were suspended by their teams before the Tour kicked them out based on the evidence coming out of Spain. Basso was the same but Riis (his director for those that don't know (played by Drolgin in the upcoming Danish movie)) said he still believes in Basso.

It also looks like Vinokourov is going to be a team of one. I guess he's used to that. If he rides a smart tactical tour, he could probably do very well.

PS Fuck Tyler Hamilton.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » June 30, 2006, 9:50 am

I can't believe you said "smart and tactical" and "Vinokurov" in the same sentence!

I actually meant ballsy by the teams, not by the Tour or cycling as a sport. I am a huge fan of CSC and Riis so.. well who knows. I am not sure I like the report of dumping syringes but it was L'Equipe stating it so not sure I believe a word of it heh.

noel · Post by **noel** » June 30, 2006, 9:59 am

Kelshara wrote:I can't believe you said "smart and tactical" and "Vinokurov" in the same sentence!

Well that's the caveat, right?

I had to check my post and make sure I said if

I actually meant ballsy by the teams, not by the Tour or cycling as a sport. I am a huge fan of CSC and Riis so.. well who knows. I am not sure I like the report of dumping syringes but it was L'Equipe stating it so not sure I believe a word of it heh.[/quote]
I thought you were quoting Teg on the word 'ballsy'

Ok so... pick your top three.

Azevedo
Landis
Popovych

Valverde?

I'd say Kloden, but I don't think he can do it.

Tegellan · Post by **Tegellan** » June 30, 2006, 10:09 am

I will have to do some more homework to pick my top 3 this year. Will also have to hold out for a day or two, to see if any other top riders get banned as well.

It is an exciting development for sure, but only time will show if it is for the better. Personally I am not so sure it is, none of these riders have been tested positive, it is merely suspicion. They may have done it, but if the doping tests haven't caught them up until now, the sport is in more trouble than I thought, simply because they are unable to test properly.

noel · Post by **noel** » June 30, 2006, 10:15 am

Actually the evidence I saw against Hamilton was pretty conclusive. They basically had a schedule that coincided with his Tour of Romandie run and whatever else he won that year LBL I think? If that's any indicator as to what was been found regarding the other riders... *shudders*

As far as making the Tour better... doubtful. I think this just means that you've caught a group of the cheaters. Potentially there are still other riders who are cheating who weren't in the group that got caught that can now go and dominate in the Tour against the riders that aren't caught and aren't cheating and frankly it just makes everyone look bad.

noel · Post by **noel** » June 30, 2006, 2:02 pm

LOL! The bookmakers respond quickly!

Internet Bookmakers' odds for Tour de France
(As of 5:00 p.m. Friday)

* Alejandro Valverde (ILL) -7/2
* Alexandre Vinokourov (Wur) -7/2
* Levi Leipheimer (Ger) -7/1
* Floyd Landis (Pho) -7/1
* Cadel Evans (Dav) -10/1
* Yaroslav Popovych (Dis) -12/1
* Paolo Savoldelli (Dis) -20/1
* Andreas Kloden (T-M) -20/1
* Michael Rasmussen (Rab) -25/1
* Denis Menchov (Rab) -25/1
* George Hincapie (Dis) -25/1
* Iban Mayo (Eus) -25/1
* Jose Azevedo (Dis) -25/1
* Christophe Moreau (Ag2) -33/1

I have to ask though... do they know fuck all about cycling? How can Vino be 7/2 without a fucking team?

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » June 30, 2006, 2:47 pm

Well he was away from his team pretty much all of last year as well heh.. will be a bitch to get food and water though! Then again maybe not, since he is solo ahead so much the car can just follow him!

noel · Post by **noel** » June 30, 2006, 3:30 pm

New info on Vino from thepaceline.com

Graham Watson wrote:Until about 4.00pm today, I’d have happily added Alexandre Vinokourov to this group of cghallengers, but the latest news is that his Astana-Wurth team is out of the Tour after five of its team were declared as being implicated in the Spanish affair. As a team needs six riders to start a grande tour, Vinokourov is unable to compete it seems, for those five riders have been dismissed by the organisers in conjunction with the UCI – and no team is allowed to make substitutions this late in the day. Effectively, the Tour has lost its three big stars in one sad afternoon – and there will be more names named before the evening draws to a close. Thankfully, there is not one American amongst them, which leaves little doubt as to which nation is going to have the biggest influence on the racing, for there is a total of eight Americans in the line-up.

Truant · Post by **Truant** » June 30, 2006, 4:08 pm

noel wrote:LOL! The bookmakers respond quickly!

Internet Bookmakers' odds for Tour de France
(As of 5:00 p.m. Friday)

* Alejandro Valverde (ILL) -7/2
* Alexandre Vinokourov (Wur) -7/2
* Levi Leipheimer (Ger) -7/1
* Floyd Landis (Pho) -7/1
* Cadel Evans (Dav) -10/1
* Yaroslav Popovych (Dis) -12/1
* Paolo Savoldelli (Dis) -20/1
* Andreas Kloden (T-M) -20/1
* Michael Rasmussen (Rab) -25/1
* Denis Menchov (Rab) -25/1
* George Hincapie (Dis) -25/1
* Iban Mayo (Eus) -25/1
* Jose Azevedo (Dis) -25/1
* Christophe Moreau (Ag2) -33/1
I have to ask though... do they know fuck all about cycling? How can Vino be 7/2 without a fucking team?

setting lines isn't about predicting who will win. it's about predicting who/how many will bet on whom. They put Vino so high, and with such poor odds, because they expect many people will still place a bet on him.

The more people they predict will bet, the lower the payout odds on that person/team.

It's fascinating really.

Their goal is to predict who will bet where, and secondly who will win, so that they make money overall. That's why on huge sports events (championship fights, superbowls, etc) you see the lines changing constantly as the event gets closer. As more people bet on one team, they reduce the payout odds on that team to balance out their potential losses versus the money won on the losing teams bets.

I don't know that I'm doing a very good job of explaining it.

noel · Post by **noel** » June 30, 2006, 4:31 pm

It's Official:

Astana-Würth leaves the Tour

Dutch television's sports anchorman Mart Smeets has just reported that the Astana-Würth team has left the Tour de France. The team had five of its Tour riders officially named in the Operacion Puerto affair (Sergio Paulinho, Isidro Nozal, Allan Davis, Alberto Contador, Joseba Beloki), as well as several others (Michele Scarponi, Marcos Serrano, David Etxebarria, Angel Vicioso, Unai Osa, Jörg Jaksche), and of course ex-team manager Manolo Saiz. The team therefore wouldn't have had enough riders to start.

In an official statement, Active Bay, the team's management company, confirmed the news. "In view of the content of the dossier sent to Spanish authorities, Active Bay has decided, in accordance with the Ethical Code signed between the UCI ProTour's teams, to withdraw from the Tour de France those riders that appear in the above-mentioned dossier.

"This decision is adopted without prejudice of the respect to the right to the presumption of innocence of these riders and of that Active Bay will exercise the actions for the defence of its rights and those of its workers. This measure does not concern the team's riders of the Tour de France that are not included in the dossier: Alexander Vinokourov, Andrey Kashechkin, Carlos Barredo and Luis León Sanchez. Nevertheless, the withdrawal of the riders that appear in the above-mentioned dossier implies that the Tour of France team will not have the minimum number of riders demanded by the UCI rules, which means the team will not be able to take the start tomorrow morning in the Tour de France."

The organisers of the Tour, ASO, were already determined to refuse to allow Astana-Würth to start, despite a ruling from the Court of Arbitration for Sport that said it could.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » June 30, 2006, 4:34 pm

This is shaping up to be like a strike year in the NFL or Baseball. Tour de France scrubs are needed. Noel, you're chance to live a dream is here!

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » June 30, 2006, 4:39 pm

I was thinking earlier that it is interesting how no Discovery team riders have been caught.. yet so many ex-riders have been. I know Noel will be pissed at me but I highly doubt Disco is the only clean top team around heh. Especially when so many ex-riders get caught.

noel · Post by **noel** » June 30, 2006, 4:53 pm

Kelshara wrote:I was thinking earlier that it is interesting how no Discovery team riders have been caught.. yet so many ex-riders have been. I know Noel will be pissed at me but I highly doubt Disco is the only clean top team around heh. Especially when so many ex-riders get caught.

Hushovd is clean too.

Actually, I'm quite sure that Armstrong was clean and, being the hands off guy that he is he had no idea about any of the former Postal/Disco riders and what they may or may not have been doing.

It's sad, but I don't trust any of them anymore.

Edit: Interesting statistic: With Vino out, last years's top 5 finishers are no longer in the Tour. That means last year's best place rider to be in this tour is Levi Leipheimer (USA). Crazy.

Tegellan · Post by **Tegellan** » July 1, 2006, 5:56 am

I highly doubt any of the top riders are clean personally, they are still incredible athletes to me, and they take the human body all the way out to the maximum. But they probably use all the drugs they can to help them with that.

It seems doping will always exist on some level or other, since the ones doing the doping are always a step ahead. It is nice to see the Tour taking a stand here, but will itmatter in the long run? I kinda doubt it personally.

noel · Post by **noel** » July 1, 2006, 11:39 am

Valverde might not be long for this Tour:

El País today noted that the Guardia Civil has also identified existing ties between the doctor and a person referred to as "Piti", which date back to 2004. This codename is believed to refer to Alejandro Valverde, who was riding for Kelme at the time, whose team doctor was Fuentes. But the involvement of Valverde could not be verified by other means such as notes, training plans, films of the various observation cameras, phone calls, etc. "These are insufficient elements to include them in the official report," said a Guardia Civil source.