9 Americans > 10 Italians + 1 referee

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » June 17, 2006, 5:58 pm

The US was robbed of 3 points.

plain and simple

THe Italian red card drew blood so was obviously warrented.

BOth US red cards were a fucking travesty.

I am used to that bullshit refereering in fucking qualifying while the US plays in El Salvador while people hurl bags of urine on the field and a GUatemalan officiates...

at least the US is playing Honduras in those matches and still wins.

AGAINST ITALY WE DOMINTATE PLAY AND ALL OF A SUDDEN RED CARDS ARE THE ORDER OF THE FUCKING DAY >

US > Italy

period

With NINE MEN THE US PRESSED FUCKING PLAY

Euros fucking beware.....your days are numbered. You will never hoist a cup again. The US arent the harbingers, but THE NEW WORLD is where Soccer is Soccer

FUCK YOU ITALY

Xorian · Post by **Xorian** » June 17, 2006, 6:09 pm

I dislike the way Italy plays, too much little fouls, too much comedy....i really dont like it.

Edit : The second yellow for poppe was justified in my opinion, maybe the first red was too hard though

Grats for the USA on this game they played better than last game , they would have deserve to win. Good goalkeeper too !

Edit: added some comments after seeing the actions again

Drolgin Steingrinder · Post by **Drolgin Steingrinder** » June 17, 2006, 7:15 pm

First US red was a yellow. The ref did a kneejerk 'let's-balance-the-scales' judgement that is to be expected in the Under 12 year olds local game, but not on this fucking level. Embarassing.

In general I've been far from impressed with the refereeing standard at this WC.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » June 17, 2006, 9:12 pm

The amount of missed penalty's the ref's should have given is fucking preposterous. The offside decisions have been great and the lack of red cards from diving has been atrocious.

Mixed bag. The linesmen are good, the refs are shit.

As for the USA being better than any Euro team....well....lol?

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » June 17, 2006, 9:13 pm

Italian red was a no-brainer.

First US red should have been a yellow.

Second US red was fine. That is a friggin newbie mistake by the player.

Italy got robbed of a penalty kick. Both teams were robbed of free kicks in dangerous positions.

The ref sucked bigtime both ways.

I still hate Italy and the US team, although better, still isn't all that it is hyped to be.

Ghana plays fun football!

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » June 17, 2006, 9:20 pm

U.S. aid to Ghana mysteriously tripled today and it's rumored that each Ghana player's family has 10 more goats.

I feel good about the U.S.'s chances next game!

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » June 17, 2006, 11:49 pm

finally a winnow post i love

And Nick, if you didnt think the US was the better side on the pitch today against Italy, i'd love to hear an explication. We're all ears. We'll be waiting.

Has anyone...EVER....seen a match where a team up 11-10 men ended up down 10-9 men within 4 minutes of elapsed time in a match....AT ANY LEVEL?

By the way, theUruguay Referee who officiated this match was suspended from his job in 2002 for "Irregularities". How the fuck is he officiating a World Cup game?

i'd almost rather have that clown from Scotland back...

BTW, i watched the match back on Mexican air EN ESPANOL, and for you Euros, not sure Mexico is 100% pro-EEUU at the moment. Comment on the officiating..."es criminale"

Nick · Post by **Nick** » June 18, 2006, 12:35 am

And Nick, if you didnt think the US was the better side on the pitch today against Italy, i'd love to hear an explication. We're all ears. We'll be waiting.

And you'll be waiting a good long time, since I said nothing of the sort you silly bugger

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » June 18, 2006, 3:49 am

Italy red card was warranted. He elbowed him with intent to hurt. The Pope Yellow was warranted, it was his second so the red was coming no matter what. The first red card was wrong big time. Either way, the only US goal this World Cup was scored by the Italians. The USA looked much better but still failed to score. They suck. Period.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » June 18, 2006, 6:00 am

Read some expert analysis this morning from people who are neither pro-US or pro-Italy. They said the Italian and second US red cards were 100% fine. They also said (and they know the rules better than me) that the first US red card was very strict but with the force he came sliding with it could be defended according to the book. Sounded like they would have preferred a yellow though.

They also said the result was fair when you consider all the chances, the missed penalty kicks etc.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » June 18, 2006, 8:46 am

My Boycott of Olive Garden begins today!!!

retiredwikit · Post by **retiredwikit** » June 18, 2006, 10:41 am

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:They suck. Period.

How could you possibly say that? THe US.. with 9 men, held off a fierce Italian side. Yes, the only goal scored so far was an own goal for the US (and if you watch the replay, McBride was sitting on the back post watching the ball roll into the net. He would have slid it in if it was going wide). But, they showed more aggression, and even with 9 men, they were still moving the ball, and taking some chances on goal. 9 of Italy's 11 shots came in the second half when the US was down to the 9 men. The US were dominating the first half with 8 shots to Italy's 2. I do not believe Bocanegra's foul was a red card offense, but nothing can be done about that, and the US dropped back into a defense and waited til they had a good chance for a counterattack.

I'm not saying that they are better then Italy, or any European squad, but they still played with heart, and they definetly didn't "suck"

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » June 18, 2006, 6:32 pm

retiredwikit wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:They suck. Period.
How could you possibly say that? THe US.. with 9 men, held off a fierce Italian side. Yes, the only goal scored so far was an own goal for the US (and if you watch the replay, McBride was sitting on the back post watching the ball roll into the net. He would have slid it in if it was going wide). But, they showed more aggression, and even with 9 men, they were still moving the ball, and taking some chances on goal. 9 of Italy's 11 shots came in the second half when the US was down to the 9 men. The US were dominating the first half with 8 shots to Italy's 2. I do not believe Bocanegra's foul was a red card offense, but nothing can be done about that, and the US dropped back into a defense and waited til they had a good chance for a counterattack.

I'm not saying that they are better then Italy, or any European squad, but they still played with heart, and they definetly didn't "suck"

Italy is not fierce. Not at all. They are an excellent defensive team, but offensively they are nothing spectacular. Italy is a solid team who should have scored 2-3 more goals, and would have if the referees didn't call about 4 offsides calls when the player wasn't offsides at all. The US looked more aggressive, but still failed to score a goal. I hope Ghana kicks their ass. I wan't them to be humiliated so maybe they will refocus and put a decent team out there next time.

Animale · Post by **Animale** » June 18, 2006, 7:10 pm

I believe that Ghana will be going 2 players short as well into the US match. These two players are the goal scorers from their Czech-republic match, so it appears that the suspensions will hurt them more than the suspensions of Pope and Mastroeni will hurt the US since, by all accounts, the US team is much deeper than Ghana's side.

Should be a good game at the very least.

Animale

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » June 18, 2006, 7:36 pm

Well the US needs to actually score at some point

Tyek · Post by **Tyek** » June 18, 2006, 9:18 pm

Read some expert analysis this morning from people who are neither pro-US or pro-Italy. They said the Italian and second US red cards were 100% fine. They also said (and they know the rules better than me) that the first US red card was very strict but with the force he came sliding with it could be defended according to the book. Sounded like they would have preferred a yellow though.

They also said the result was fair when you consider all the chances, the missed penalty kicks etc.

I played about 30 years, played club, high school, college and got to semi-pro and my team actually played the Galaxy (got our asses kicked) so I feel like I know the game a bit.

Yes the Italian Red Card was deserved and it should come with a multi-game suspension, not just the one game red card suspension.

The Pope call was a justifiable since it was his second card, but only IF he had not carded Mastreoni. Pablo's red card would NEVER get called in a game, he deserved a yellow, nothing more and the ref tried to even things out from the Italian card. Since he blew that call he should have pulled Pope aside and warned him the next hard challenge would earn him a second yellow. He allowed himself to become a major part of the storyline of the game and that is why he should not ref again in a World Cup match.

The US was lucky, they got an own goal to keep them alive along with some great keeping, they better come ready for a good Ghana team and they better hope Italy plays more like Italy in their next game.

Xorian · Post by **Xorian** » June 19, 2006, 3:54 am

The FIFA warned the refrees before the world cup. A foul that has the weight of a yellow card should be punished with a yellow card, no matter if the player has been booked before.

The foul comitted by Poppe had the weight of a yellow, no real discussion on it. As said above, the first red was probably too harsh but the player tackled quiete hard and therefore it is defendable.

I dont think the ref wanted to take part or made history, i think he applied the rules , harshly but he did.

Aruman · Post by **Aruman** » June 19, 2006, 6:58 am

I don't follow soccer at all, but I can tell you this much... that Italian player who quite obviously deliberately elbowed that US player in the face shouldn't even be back in the tournament. I don't know soccer rules so not sure that is even an option.

The other parts where they were going for the ball didn't look like anything where the players should have been ejected.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » June 19, 2006, 7:15 am

In a sort of similar occasion to the Italian red card in the past the offender got 4 games suspension. That sounds about right to me. Even the Italian coach went after him on a press conference.

The American red card.. I believe they have been extra cautious about those tackles due to several top players breaking legs in the last 6 months on tackles just like that. And to be honest: You don't go for the ball with a double-foot 5 meter sliding tackle heh. I still say it was strict but it can be defended by the book. I've seen way worse cards.

And yeah, the US played a hell of a lot better but you still got lucky to get a draw.

Deward · Post by **Deward** » June 19, 2006, 11:31 am

I am definitely not a soccer expert but it seemed to me like the Italians were constantly taking dives and faking injuries to stop play. I never saw the USA do that. Are there any rules against that? I swear the guy would fall down screaming like a little girl. Get carried off the field and 10 seconds later be ready to come back in.

I thought the Americans played a completely different game this time around. They were much more aggressive and passed teh ball around a lot better.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » June 19, 2006, 11:51 am

The US did it too, but the Italians are bad for it. All teams in this world cup have players who dive like fucking assholes. I think diving should be punishable by an instant red card and full tournament suspension, that would stop it pretty goddamn quickly.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » June 19, 2006, 11:54 am

Italians are known to dive a lot but all teams do it to some extent. Like a soccer player told me "It is, unfortunately, part of the game".

Nick · Post by **Nick** » June 19, 2006, 12:07 pm

It should be clamped down on. It was worst in the last world cup and they were talking about clamping down on it, and yet here we are 4 years later and the same old shits going on.

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » June 19, 2006, 1:36 pm

I think they should introduce pink cards for those who dive and feign injury. If you collect 4 you have to play the rest of the season/tournament in a ballerina's tutu.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » June 19, 2006, 1:51 pm

You could easily argue that professional soccer is one of the fakest sporting games played.

It's worse than WWF when it comes to fake injuries and acting them out. Something needs to be done to stop all the acting..stretchers, "magic healing spray" and players popping right back up.

Act like men. Act like American (real NFL) football players. You don't see them faking injuries. When they're hurt...they're actually hurt.

Even in the NBA, you see players whine about fouls but they don't drop to the ground, roll around like a fucking baby and then fake limp or get carried off on a fucking stretcher and then come back in the game the next dead ball.

Bunch of pussies.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » June 19, 2006, 3:52 pm

Winnow just a fyi for you.. soccer has the highest injury percentage of any major sport. A friend of the family here plays on the Norwegian national team (captain in fact heh) and has played in Premier League and the amounts of injuries he plays with through the season is amazing. When he goes down they wrap it up, spray on some instant ice stuff and send him back out.

Soccer has way more injuries than team handball which I played and know first hand how physical is.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » June 19, 2006, 4:02 pm

Kelshara wrote:Winnow just a fyi for you.. soccer has the highest injury percentage of any major sport.

That's because a bunch of uncoordinated hacks play soccer that can't get into a real sport so it's to be expected that they'll miss the ball and kick shins left and right.

That still doesn't excuse the lameness of all the fake injuries, flops, and general pussiness of the penalties in Soccer.

I played Soccer for years in my early teen years along with other sports and only sustained one injury in soccer (and it was a real one...snapped one of my ligaments...but I STILL got off the field myself!)

Soccer is a fun sport to play and fun to watch even during the World Cup but the fake part of the game is so cheesy and lends itself to corruption.

Post by **Xouqoa** » June 19, 2006, 5:34 pm

I missed the game since I was out of town but I'm glad they played well.

I also had a great idea for soccer that would increase the popularity in the US.... power plays! Minor penalties should result in a 1-2 minute removal of the player from the field, hockey style. This could occur up to 3 times for a maximum of 12 vs. 9. If a goal is scored during a power play, the player is release from the box just like hockey. I think that would rule. I'm taking this idea STRAIGHT TO THE TOP!

Post by **Xouqoa** » June 19, 2006, 5:35 pm

vn_Tanc wrote:I think they should introduce pink cards for those who dive and feign injury. If you collect 4 you have to play the rest of the season/tournament in a ballerina's tutu.

I will include that in my proposal along with power plays!

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » June 19, 2006, 5:42 pm

Don't forget media timeouts and beer breaks. That will make it an instant hit in the US.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » June 19, 2006, 6:23 pm

i've moderated my stance since my drunken blast on saturday.

i think one point i did not make was Mastroeni made a bad decision to challenge that ball - in Italy's end like that.

That being said, that call was bullshit. Pope should have known by the time he slid in that the ref was calling the match in ridiculous fashion, and he is a veteran of many international matches.

what is most important for persons who support their nation (Midnyte is "AGAINST US") is that the US came out with a tremendous amount of fight and spirit. Many teams would have folded up shop after such a terrible performance as was displayed in the first match.

Even better, is both matches matter on Tuesday. Italy is motivated not to tie, as a tie and a Ghana win = they get Brazil.

Drolgin Steingrinder · Post by **Drolgin Steingrinder** » June 19, 2006, 6:48 pm

Winnow wrote:
Kelshara wrote:Winnow just a fyi for you.. soccer has the highest injury percentage of any major sport.
That's because a bunch of uncoordinated hacks play soccer that can't get into a real sport so it's to be expected that they'll miss the ball and kick shins left and right.

That still doesn't excuse the lameness of all the fake injuries, flops, and general pussiness of the penalties in Soccer.

I played Soccer for years in my early teen years along with other sports and only sustained one injury in soccer (and it was a real one...snapped one of my ligaments...but I STILL got off the field myself!)

Soccer is a fun sport to play and fun to watch even during the World Cup but the fake part of the game is so cheesy and lends itself to corruption.

Requesting to be made a mod of the Sports forum so I can boot Winnow's idiotic ass. Please read the first post of this little corner of VV again, you trolling fuckstick. Hint: It's called 'RULES'.

Dumbass.

Wonko Wenusberg · Post by **Wonko Wenusberg** » June 19, 2006, 7:13 pm

lolz at Winnow. My fractured foot, dislocated kneecap and broken leg beg to differ that teen series and higher is fake injuries, and that soccer is a lame sport

Anywhooo back to fussball!

Nick · Post by **Nick** » June 19, 2006, 7:14 pm

Yes that would have to rank up there as one of Winnow's most idiotic posts and I'm not even a massive football fan.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » June 19, 2006, 7:47 pm

I've got the Euros all riled up!

I wasn't flaming anyone. Tell me where in my post I broke the rules by expressing my opinon that was on topic. I like soccer and playing it. I don't like a part of it. Are we going to get so defensive that no opinions may be expressed?

Voro broke the rules by flaming Miir!

Nick · Post by **Nick** » June 19, 2006, 7:55 pm

Drolgin Steingrinder · Post by **Drolgin Steingrinder** » June 20, 2006, 6:17 am

How is "That's because a bunch of uncoordinated hacks play soccer that can't get into a real sport so it's to be expected that they'll miss the ball and kick shins left and right." anything but a slam on the sport? We were talking about professional athletes and you pull that out of whatever orifice you were fingering at the time.

laneela · Post by **laneela** » June 20, 2006, 7:48 am

Winnow wrote:Act like men. Act like American (real NFL) football players. You don't see them faking injuries. When they're hurt...they're actually hurt.

Even in the NBA, you see players whine about fouls but they don't drop to the ground, roll around like a fucking baby and then fake limp or get carried off on a fucking stretcher and then come back in the game the next dead ball.

Apples and oranges. While American football is just as physical (if not slightly more so), players are wearing more than three times their weight in protective gear. Basketball can't be compared to football (american or soccer) in terms of physical contact. Also, in American football, what would the purpose of faking an injury be? The call has already been made and the referees have instant replay to help them decide.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » June 20, 2006, 9:43 am

Having played both Soccer and Basketball, I would put the level of physical contact even between the two.

Post by **Sylvus** » June 20, 2006, 11:17 am

laneela wrote:Apples and oranges. While American football is just as physical (if not slightly more so), players are wearing more than three times their weight in protective gear. Basketball can't be compared to football (american or soccer) in terms of physical contact. Also, in American football, what would the purpose of faking an injury be? The call has already been made and the referees have instant replay to help them decide.

Pfft. A helmet and shoulder pads weigh about 10-15 lbs. The "girdle" pads (tailbone and 2 hip pads), thigh and knee pads on each leg (which virtually no one above high-school level actually wears) weigh a total of about 2 lbs. You're misrepresenting football!

And football got rid of the instant replay years ago, replacing it more recently with a very limited version that is used at a coach's behest and at most 2 times per game/half.

The more you know...

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » June 20, 2006, 1:01 pm

Drolgin Steingrinder wrote:How is "That's because a bunch of uncoordinated hacks play soccer that can't get into a real sport so it's to be expected that they'll miss the ball and kick shins left and right." anything but a slam on the sport? We were talking about professional athletes and you pull that out of whatever orifice you were fingering at the time.

You forgot to quote the end of the same post in which I expressed my love for the game and deep concern about possible corruption detroying its integrity!

Winnow wrote:Soccer is a fun sport to play and fun to watch even during the World Cup but the fake part of the game is so cheesy and lends itself to corruption.

And as for Soccer vs NFL...you just don't see fake injuries in the NFL. Somehow, someway...American football refs and players manage to have penalties called on them without players rolling around on the ground...standing up, faking a limp for a few seconds or minutes (however long it takes for the ball to come their way again) and then play on.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » June 20, 2006, 5:09 pm

All the fake-ass dives are what fuel the perception so many Americans have about soccer being a pussy sport. It happens every World Cup too, and the refs keep rewarding these fucking drama queens.

Less diving and more bicycle kicks!

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » June 21, 2006, 11:37 pm

the reason people dive in soccer is an unfortunate side effect of the fact that points are at an absolute premium. 1 goal absolutely changes a game comletely. It may not decide the game, but it always changes it substantially - especially in a World Cup.

they should do some kind of offline review of dives and fine players or have points leading up to suspension or someshit....i dunno

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » June 22, 2006, 3:15 am

If the United States sent our eleven best thespians, we'd be unbeatable in the World Cup.

Tyek · Post by **Tyek** » June 23, 2006, 2:36 am

I would never compare the level of physical contact in football and soccer, but just like in basketball, much of the physical contact occurs away from the play. I used to wail on the back of the players legs whenever possible and I could easily break your ankle if I wanted to. It is not as physical as football, but trust me you do not want to experience some of the things that happen on the field at the upper levels of the game.

As for the dives, I hate them. It is hard for a ref to see the more subtle ones, but I would be all for a game review and penalty system if a player is found to have taken a dive. It does skew people's view of the game in a very negative view.