Budget AGP goodness

sarlen · Post by **sarlen** » March 29, 2006, 12:17 am

A week or so ago I asked for advise on a good budget video card and got many responses, see below.

http://veeshanvault.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=17084

The end result was Miir recommending this card ( http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814130264 ). As it turned out my wife’s car took a major crap and I had to scrape up the cash to get her something else, 2001 WindStar (ya I know, no jokes please) So my budget went down even further.

So I happen to browse Newegg this past Sunday and found a nice card in my price range http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814102608. It was a weekend special for $165, fits my price range and is more then twice the video card I have now (FX5200) so I order it up for next day shipping. They don’t process orders on Sundays so next day was Tuesday, and as promised it got here about 1pm Tuesday.

When I got to the box my first impression was “wow that’s a big damn box for such a small card”. So I picked it up and shook it, it sounded like a pound of dirt shaking around in an otherwise empty box. I was suddenly hit with the RMA fears. I quickly opened the box to find a smaller box surrounded by packing peanuts. I pulled out the smaller box, opened it up and found the card, the CD and the cables lying in the bottom. No packing at all in the small box, the anti static bag the card was in looked like it had been threw hell and a nice sized crack in the CD.

(The install)

After putting the card in and booting up my computer the new card detected fine and prompted for drivers. I downloaded the latest drivers from ATI and installed and rebooted, went to Sapphire’s site and got the kick ass over clock utility they have for this chipset and installed that. All in all it was completely painless, had it in and running in less than 10min.

(Game play)

The games:
Star Wars Galaxies
Unreal Tournament 2004
Half Life 2
KOTOR 2
Star Wars BattleFront 2
World of Warcraft

The reason I needed a new card was I have had to play all my games on the lowest possible settings and still I had tons of video lag. I use a 17in flat panel monitor and have been in the habit of running at 1024x768 to try and control some of the lag.

After the install I fired up SWG and went to the worst spot in the game for lag, it’s in a space zone where there is a very dense nebula. My old 5200 would drop to 2 frames a second if I even look at the nebula. The X800GTO however performed very well, frame rates stayed steady at 30FPS threw it all (30 is the standard for the game, it wont go higher). So I cranked it all up. 1280x1024 with all graphics on medium, frame rates dropped to 27FPS and still not a hint of video lag. Knowing full well SWG is a wimp when it comes to taxing the card, I popped in HL2 and cranked it all up to high quality graphics at the max resolution my monitor takes (1280x1024). This time I could see a hint of lag when spinning in place or during mass battles. Turning it all to medium and trying again, it was flawless. I had the same results with KOTOR2 and BattleFront 2.

(Overview)

If your going to try to keep your AGP mobo alive another year this card is hands down the best card for the cash. The performance vs price is right on.

Mobo: MSI K7N2 Delta2
Chip: Athlon XP 2700+ (2.17GHZ)
Memory: 1 gig Corsair
HDD: 40 gig SATA
Power supply 540w
Video X800GTO 256 GDDR3 4x/8x AGP

Clatis · Post by **Clatis** » March 29, 2006, 1:41 am

Hahahahaha download the song "Ford Windstar" by Wesley Willis. You'll laugh ur ass off

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » March 29, 2006, 2:35 am

If your going to try to keep your AGP mobo alive another year this card is hands down the best card for the cash. The performance vs price is right on.

That's where it gets iffy. If you'd gotten a nice pci-e card with a nice pci-e motherboard, you wouldn't have to upgrade those for much longer. As you have it now, you will need to upgrade in a year instead of [longer period of time], so it can't be very fair to say you've saved money.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » March 29, 2006, 2:51 am

Leonaerd wrote:
If your going to try to keep your AGP mobo alive another year this card is hands down the best card for the cash. The performance vs price is right on.
That's where it gets iffy. If you'd gotten a nice pci-e card with a nice pci-e motherboard, you wouldn't have to upgrade those for much longer. As you have it now, you will need to upgrade in a year instead of [longer period of time], so it can't be very fair to say you've saved money.

*coughbullshitcough* pci-e is still in the "early adopters" market, which means you're paying a premium to get it now. And the likelihood of Sarlen *needing* to upgrade in 12 months is dubious; it relies on him wanting Vanguard and it not being playable on a X800, which would be a really stupid decision on Sigil's part from a financial standpoint.

Sigil wrote:The Vanguard client will be built to take advantage of the average gamer's machine at the time of release. The graphics engine is very scalable, so a below recommended spec machine should be able to run the game, albeit with less graphics goodness than a more powerful PC. Likewise, as newer and more powerful systems and cards come on the market, the Vanguard client will take be able to take advantage of them , scaling upwards.

So, sure, an X800 won't run Vanguard at 2048x1536 with every graphics option on, but it will run at a decent frame rate at 1024x768 w/o all the farkles on.

Even if he does want a new rig in 12 months, once you move to PCI-E you should just throw in an extra $200 and get a complete new machine and pass your existing one down to the kids/nephews/cousins/wife and you'll do that for a whole lot less in 12 months than now, and likely save more than $165.

In any case, his "exposure" is $165, if he bought PCI-E for "future proofing" his exposure would be over $1000. In terms of risk-management, he's well in front.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » March 29, 2006, 2:52 am

but could he replace both with parts cheaper than the fix he has now?

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » March 29, 2006, 3:02 am

Boogahz wrote:but could he replace both with parts cheaper than the fix he has now?

Which is actually the bigger issue, does he have $1000 to blow on a gaming rig today; no.

Pardon my rant, but I get sick to death of people pushing the idea that buying "better than acceptable" hardware today is a waste of money because it won't be able to run vapourware in 12 months time.

My 3200+ CPU is a few months shy of 3 years old, and yet it runs at 2.2Ghz and the latest AMD stuff (albeit dual-core and more cache) runs at 2.4Ghz. We're a *long* way past the days when Moore's law was reality.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » March 29, 2006, 3:08 am

Normally moving to another architecture involves more expense than simply purchasing a motherboard. Unless you plan on totally cannibalizing your existing setup. However I'd contend you'll usually end up purchasing a new case, processor and memory. In addition to the video card.

I'm in the same boat really. Thinking of just getting the 6800GS as I'm still AGP. I have no intention of playing Vanguard though. Bradware isn't for me!

(Moore's Law is still a reality. However, keeping up with it is not really possible financially unless you're Bill Gates.)

Post by **Xouqoa** » March 29, 2006, 3:57 am

I spent $1200 to upgrade in October, but I was okay with that because I knew I wouldn't have to do it again for at least a couple of years.

If my machine starts to lag in the graphics department I can get another 7800GT and throw it in to run SLI mode and it'll give me a large enough boost to keep going for a while till I can upgrade again.

sarlen · Post by **sarlen** » March 29, 2006, 4:01 am

Aslanna wrote:Normally moving to another architecture involves more expense than simply purchasing a motherboard. Unless you plan on totally cannibalizing your existing setup. However I'd contend you'll usually end up purchasing a new case, processor and memory. In addition to the video card.

My minimum had I wanted to change to the PCI-E was a motherboard, case, Processor, Video card. I’m pretty sure my memory would have been reusable. When I crunched the numbers on that it was nearing 900 bucks or just a video card. After consulting my checkbook the choice became obvious, just the video card.

I still stand by my initial post. If you are on a budget and need to make the AGP mobo run another year (or more) this card fits the bill nicely.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » March 29, 2006, 7:23 am

In another 18 months or so I'll post a whole new computer buyers guide. I'm done for now!

People should budget for buying a whole new computer every two years. It's not much really. $1,200.00-1,500.00 every two years to stay on top of the computer power cycle (if you have a good monitor) is worth it for most of us here who use computers as one of our primary sources of entertainment. That's like 50.00/month if you save up! Not bad! It's like buying one game a month less and putting it toward your next PC (can leech one game a month if it makes you feel better!)

miir · Post by **miir** » March 29, 2006, 2:01 pm

*coughbullshitcough* pci-e is still in the "early adopters" market, which means you're paying a premium to get it now. And the likelihood of Sarlen *needing* to upgrade in 12 months is dubious; it relies on him wanting Vanguard and it not being playable on a X800, which would be a really stupid decision on Sigil's part from a financial standpoint.

That's almost as retarded as saying that LCD monitors are still for 'early adopters'.

The past 2-3 generations of Nvidia and ATI video cards have been available in only in PIC Express.

PCIE has been around for roughly 2 years, it's nowhere near the 'early adopters' market.
It's the fucking standard.

Where I buy my hardware, they carry virtually every manufacturer and they stock exactly 31 AGP cards... compare that to the 115 PCIE cards they stock... If you've purchased a new system in the past 12-18 months chances are it has a PCIE motherboard.

And 'paying a premium' is horseshit.

At the same shop (Canadian prices):

BFG GeForce 6600 GT OC 128MB GDDR3 PCIE = $149
BFG GeForce 6600 GT OC 128MB GDDR3 AGP = $149

ATI Radeon X700 PRO 256MB GDDR3 PCI-Express w/ TV-Out, DVI = $174
ATI Radeon X700 PRO 256MB GDDR3 AGP w/ TV-Out, DVI = $269

Sapphire ATI Radeon X1300 256MB DDR DVI-I Tv-Out PCI Express - $104
Sapphire ATI Radeon X1300 256MB DDR DVI-I TV-Out AGP 8X - $124

Asus N6600LE nVidia GeForce 6600LE 256MB DDR TV-Out DVI-II PCI Express - $113
Asus N6600LE nVidia GeForce 6600LE 256MB DDR TV-Out DVI-I 8x/4x AGP - $134

Who exactly is paying the premium?

Deward · Post by **Deward** » March 29, 2006, 6:07 pm

I just upgraded for around $640.

New Case - $70
MB - A8N32 SLI Deluxe - $240
CPU - AMD 3500 - $152
1 GIG RAM - $50
6800 GT SLI Video Card - $90
160 GB HD - $40

I had an old 52x CDROM sitting around. The only thing real top of the line is the motherboard. I can upgrade it for years to come so I always do the best I can there. I did overpay for it though. I had $300 in rebates for a local computer mom-n-pop. I saw the same card online for about $150.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » March 29, 2006, 9:45 pm

miir wrote: At the same shop (Canadian prices):

BFG GeForce 6600 GT OC 128MB GDDR3 PCIE = $149
BFG GeForce 6600 GT OC 128MB GDDR3 AGP = $149

ATI Radeon X700 PRO 256MB GDDR3 PCI-Express w/ TV-Out, DVI = $174
ATI Radeon X700 PRO 256MB GDDR3 AGP w/ TV-Out, DVI = $269

Sapphire ATI Radeon X1300 256MB DDR DVI-I Tv-Out PCI Express - $104
Sapphire ATI Radeon X1300 256MB DDR DVI-I TV-Out AGP 8X - $124

Asus N6600LE nVidia GeForce 6600LE 256MB DDR TV-Out DVI-II PCI Express - $113
Asus N6600LE nVidia GeForce 6600LE 256MB DDR TV-Out DVI-I 8x/4x AGP - $134

Who exactly is paying the premium?

Every card listed there is shite other than perhaps the 6600...

Anyway, perhaps early adopter was over-reaching

But to buy a card that's only available in PCI-E you're looking at a starting price in the $300-$500 range, and with the performance you can get out of a card in the $150-$200 range, yeah I consider the higher range "early adopter" prices. Especially when you have to upgrade motherboard (and usually CPU and RAM) to go with it, which is where the premium comes in.

There's still good AGP boards out there too, like the A7N8X-X (and cheap as, though perhaps harder to source in the US than here in Asia.)

Sure, if you *had* to buy a motherboard and GPU at the same time, then you'd be foolish to avoid PCI-E, but we're not talking about that.

miir · Post by **miir** » March 29, 2006, 11:26 pm

Every card listed there is shite other than perhaps the 6600...

The best AGP card you can get right now is the recently released 7800GS. In Canada they go for around $400. For around $40 more you can get a 7900GT which fucking smokes the 7800GS in performance... Or you can go another route and get a 7800GT for $30 less and still get better performance.

Anyway, perhaps early adopter was over-reaching But to buy a card that's only available in PCI-E you're looking at a starting price in the $300-$500 range, and with the performance you can get out of a card in the $150-$200 range, yeah I consider the higher range "early adopter" prices. Especially when you have to upgrade motherboard (and usually CPU and RAM) to go with it, which is where the premium comes in.

What the fuck are you talking about?

Any card that's available in AGP is also available in PCIE and the PCIE version is either the same price or cheaper.

But whatever... PCIE, even if you don't want to accept it, is now the standard, AGP is on it's last legs.

By this time next year, 90% of the cards sold will be PCIE.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » March 29, 2006, 11:32 pm

miir wrote: What the fuck are you talking about?

Any card that's available in AGP is also available in PCIE and the PCIE version is either the same price or cheaper.

Not if you have to replace your motherboard to suit it... and in the bit you quoted "But to buy a card that's only available in PCI-E you're looking at a starting price in the $300-$500 range", by which I meant that at the point you're forced to buy PCI-E (last couple generations of card) there's a price jump

But whatever... PCIE, even if you don't want to accept it, is now the standard, AGP is on it's last legs.

By this time next year, 90% of the cards sold will be PCIE.

Agreed.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » March 29, 2006, 11:35 pm

I think the part about having to replace more than JUST the AGP card is what people seem to forget. That's why I mentioned it way up there.

miir · Post by **miir** » March 29, 2006, 11:53 pm

Not if you have to replace your motherboard to suit it...

PCIE motherboards have been out for close to 2 years now.
To expect someone to upgrade their system every 2-3 years is not unreasonable. Within a year, the last generation of AGP motherboards will be getting upgraded and it really makes sense to hold off buying a AGP videocard now and just wait until you upgrade your motherboard/CPU/RAM. Does it make sense to upgrade a component in your computer that will be virtually obsolete in 12 months?

miir · Post by **miir** » March 29, 2006, 11:57 pm

Don't get me wrong, I'm not totally anti-AGP.
If you've got a shitty card and you get shitty framerates on the games you play... and you don't forsee a mobo upgrade in the next 8-10 months, go ahead and drop $200 on a decent AGP card to tide you over until that time.

But if you've got a 6600 or comparable, upgrading to a better AGP card would be stupid.

sarlen · Post by **sarlen** » March 30, 2006, 12:24 am

miir wrote:Don't get me wrong, I'm not totally anti-AGP.
If you've got a shitty card and you get shitty framerates on the games you play... and you don't forsee a mobo upgrade in the next 8-10 months, go ahead and drop $200 on a decent AGP card to tide you over until that time.

But if you've got a 6600 or comparable, upgrading to a better AGP card would be stupid.

Exactly my point in posting my experience with this card. Aimed at the guys and gals with very little cash but looking for a bump in frames for cheep over spending the big bucks. If I had to replace my system today with all new I couldnt do it financially. I would have to get a loan or wait 6 or 8 months to save up. I dont feel my other hardware is bad enough off to warrent an upgrade any time soon so the upgrade in video card makes the most sense for me.