Blow this setup out of the water

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » June 20, 2005, 5:12 pm

OK i'm shopping for a new PC that i'm gonna build.

i'd like to come in with a grand total of around $1200.

Tell me how much of a fucking loser I am for picking this setup.

Tell me how much of a fucking clueless know nothing fucktard i am

actually i'm also just fishing for some decent HW advice since i really have kind of missed a lot of the new info since i havent bought a system in some time.

Bottom line is I want a PC that is pretty solid for gaming as well as productivity, but not paying the premium for brand new technology either.
-----

Intel Route: $451
Intel 915P (Socket T - LGA775) $135

Intel Pentium 4 630 - Prescott 800MHz FSB EM64T $227

Corsair ValueSelect 1GB (2x512MB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM 533 (PC2 4200) Unbuffered Dual Channel Kit $89
---------------------
AMD route $388
Processor - AMD Athlon 64 3200+ $191

MB - Asus A8V-E Deluxe (built in WiFi, Firewire etc...) $124

Rosewill 1GB (2 x 512MB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM Unbuffered DDR 400 (PC 3200) Dual Channel Kit System Memory $73
-------------------
Video Card:
BFG Tech BFGR6600GTX Geforce 6600GT 128MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI-Express x16 Video Card $212

Hard Disk:
SAMSUNG SpinPoint P Series SP1614C 160GB 7200 RPM 8MB Cache Serial ATA150 Hard Drive - OEM $90

Optical:
Pioneer Black 16X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 6X DVD+R DL 16X ... 2M Cache IDE DVD Burner - OEM $50
Toshiba 16X DVD ROM drive $24
Monitor:
Fuji Plus FP-988D Silver-Black 19" 12ms LCD Monitor 250 cd/m2 600:1 Built in Speakers 0.264mm Pixel Pitch $250

Case:
IN WIN S523T Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 300W Power Supply - Retail $55

Power Supply: (Samila should get the commission)
Seasonic Super Silencer 400W ATX $88

subtotal non-CPU related: $769

Shoot my dumbass down!!!

seriously though thanks for any useful advice anybody has.

--------

Working totals:

AMD machine: $1157

Intel machine: $1220

Tenuvil · Post by **Tenuvil** » June 20, 2005, 5:28 pm

Opinions are like assholes when it comes to computer gear.

I'm biased toward nVidia video cards. And AMD chips.

As far as cases go all my pcs are built in In Win cases, beefy case, best quality and reasonable price.

I'd consider a second dvd-rom drive to facilitate copies and not overuse the burner. I generally only use my burner for burning and use the dvd-rom drive for most everything else.

miir · Post by **miir** » June 20, 2005, 5:29 pm

Do you really need an ALL-IN-WONDER?
I'd go with an x800 if you're not going to use the multimedia features on the wonder.

Personally, I'd go crazy with a 17" screen.
19" LCDs have really come down in price. You can probably get a good one for under $300.

Ransure · Post by **Ransure** » June 20, 2005, 5:29 pm

Go AMD!!!

Not sure on prices atm... but an Nforce3 chipset from Epox and Athalon 64 chip should perform better and be a bit cheaper...

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » June 20, 2005, 5:31 pm

Bwahahahahaha!1!!

OK, seriously...what do you plan to do with your system?

-burning DVD's important? (get the Pioneer DVR-109 BK OEM) I did my research recently on DVD burners and this is the one for you. 49.00.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6827129161

-having a fighing chance at playing games released in the next 6 months? Get a GeForce 6600GT, not an ATI x600. Best value card out atm. BFG brand: 212.00

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814143026

...More later when I have time!

miir · Post by **miir** » June 20, 2005, 5:33 pm

6600GT is a sweet card.
Good price on it as well.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » June 20, 2005, 5:36 pm

Samsung Spinpoint HDs are the quietest/best drives out atm: 90.00

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6822152015

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » June 20, 2005, 5:39 pm

love you guys....i owe you all beers.

updating as i get the good advice.

Keep it rolling in.

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » June 20, 2005, 6:17 pm

Note that the LeadTek 6600GT is on sale with a $20 rebate so it's only $149. The BFG may be a tad faster but not that much... maybe 2 fps... 2 fps isn't worth $70 IMHO.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814122206 - Nevermind right now, that's the AGP, PCIE is out of stock...

In regards to a case here is what you need, scrap that PowerSupply as well, it's included in this one... 480W Antec True Power. I've got one, best thing ever. It connects to the MB to monitor the temp of the case and will increase/decrease case fan speed (those hooked to the FAN power) depending on temp... saves a bunch on fans that have a sensor built in... and keeps the system almost silent 99% of the time. Including the PS I have 9 Fans (2 ft, 2bk, 2ps, video, processor, chipset) in my system, it's cool and so quite that most of the time you can't even tell it's on... don't get that $55 case, this will last and you will be much happier with room to expand...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6811129159

If you don't like the look of that one... this one has a PS as well and is very nice, what I used in the latest build for a friend... I do like the Antec PS though... IF you want looks this is nice but it won't regulate the fans like an Antec PS nor is it as stable IMHO... but still very nice, extra nice if you don't mind a little noise and want to save a few bucks...

http://www.newegg.com/product/product.a ... 6811133157

Also, in regards to price and speed I would go AMD. I just built a similar system for a friend with an AMD64 3200+ and it's one of the fastest systems I have seen yet. Plus you are already ready for the 64bit version of Window or Linux... putting links to similar in price / performance for AMD...

Processor - AMD Athlon 64 3200+
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6819103502

MB - Asus A8V-E Deluxe (built in WiFi, Firewire etc...)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... etailSpecs

Make those changes and you will have a faster system and save $100... Built my sister system a Simperon system off NewEgg... everything but the video and HD for $200 and it's very fast, amazingly fast for $200

Marb

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » June 20, 2005, 6:17 pm

Hey! Update the HD! That 160GB Samsung Spinpoint is the 8.00 cheaper and a better drive than the HP you have listed! Read the user comments on NewEgg if you need some extra support.

Also, get the Sonota II Case. Several of us have the original Sonata with 380W power supplies and are happy with them. (me and Aslanna and some others...it's a nice case and quiet.) The Sonata II has a True Power 450W power supply built in that's top rated so you can delete the separate Power Supply from your costs. 120.00.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6811129155

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » June 20, 2005, 6:20 pm

Don't cheap out on the graphics card.(key part of your system) Stick with the BFG brand name. They are kick ass cards and have a great track record.

The power supply in the Sonata II is an Antec True Power like Marbus is talking about.

BTW, if 120.00 for case/power supply is too much, you could get the original Sonata

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6811129127

It's got a 380W and runs 89.00. I run three hard drives, a GeForce 6800GT (extra power), and DVD drive off of it without a hitch. The 380W True power performs better than most 400W supplies if you want to get nerdy and research the facts, someone did a great review of it.

PS: it has side loading hard drive bays which makes life much easier when screwing around with the insides of your case. Better cable maintenance as well.

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » June 20, 2005, 6:28 pm

But BFG is a recently new company right? or it they take over someone elses stuff? I've been using LeadTek cards for many years now and all of them have been top notch. They are usually not the fastest of a series but never the slowest either and support is excellent. I've considered a BFG but it would take a lot to get me away from LeadTek... Winnow do you know anything about the company?

Marb

PS - I used that Sonata for a friend about 6 months ago, very nice, Antec makes good cases and my favorite PS. If you don't want a full tower, get the Sonata II as Win suggests, it's got that 430W PS now, more than powerful enough.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » June 20, 2005, 6:44 pm

Marbus wrote:But BFG is a recently new company right? or it they take over someone elses stuff? I've been using LeadTek cards for many years now and all of them have been top notch. They are usually not the fastest of a series but never the slowest either and support is excellent. I've considered a BFG but it would take a lot to get me away from LeadTek... Winnow do you know anything about the company?

Marb

I own a BFG 6800GT. If you browse the [H]ard Ops forums, you'll see that BFG has the best tech support as well as the best performance. The company seems to care about the quality of card they put out. The overclockers love them.

What I like about the 6600 BFG is that it has dual DVI outs (the Leadtek doesn't). Most people are moving toward LCDs...and projectors!...it's easy to slap on an adapter (comes free) to use old crusty analog CTRs connected to DVI but much preferred to use DVI when using LCDs and not convert from analog.

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » June 20, 2005, 6:49 pm

Love my Sonata case, quiet is good. Running 4 drives, DVD and DVD-R on the 380W PS with no issues. If you spec it, that 380 is a better PS than most 450s.

Love my AiW as well, it would be hard to get used to not having it.
*Edit - A TV tuner card would give you more future flexibility.

I'll second whoever said to get another optical drive in addition to the DvD-R. Makes life a lot easier when copying and such, and "non-R" drives are frequently faster, regardless of what the packaging says.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » June 20, 2005, 7:06 pm

Aabidano wrote: I'll second whoever said to get another optical drive in addition to the DvD-R. Makes life a lot easier when copying and such, and "non-R" drives are frequently faster, regardless of what the packaging says.

All the new DVD Write drives are both +R and -R. I use both media in my Pioneer 109. The +R's burn at 12X in about 8 mins 30 secs, the -R's burn at 12X in about 7 mins 30 secs.

One thing to note though is that the -R's are more compatible with older DVD players. I can't play +Rs in my X-Box for example. (that depends on band name of the media though a lot)

Another note on DVD media...be SURE to get DVD media Made in Japan with the Pioneer (and probably most other drives) The Made in Taiwan stuff is crap. Check the label as even the same brand name (Maxell for example) will sell the same media but it comes from different plants...Japan is the stuff you want.

Note #2, buy the Epson R200 printer for like 89.00 and Printable DVDs (maxell 8Xs ...they'll burn at 12X's in the Pioneer drive) and you can make great labels instead of using a Sharpie. It's very easy to setup the printer and pop in a DVD to print the label. Stickers and the new Laser etching technique (takes like 30 mins to make a label) suck ass compared to the Epson R200 printer and printable DVDs.

Read the user comments on R200 for how people have fared. I love it.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6828103160

Fash · Post by **Fash** » June 20, 2005, 7:32 pm

Winnow wrote:
Aabidano wrote: I'll second whoever said to get another optical drive in addition to the DvD-R. Makes life a lot easier when copying and such, and "non-R" drives are frequently faster, regardless of what the packaging says.
All the new DVD Write drives are both +R and -R. I use both media in my Pioneer 109. The +R's burn at 12X in about 8 mins 30 secs, the -R's burn at 12X in about 7 mins 30 secs.

Winnow has lost skill in reading comprehension. (6)

"non-R".. ie Drives which have no writing capabilities at all.. are always faster.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » June 20, 2005, 7:42 pm

Fash wrote:
Winnow has lost skill in reading comprehension. (6)

"non-R".. ie Drives which have no writing capabilities at all.. are always faster.

Who ever said my responses had anything to do with posts I quote!

Most of the media I get is from the net (dvd images etc) so I guess I ignored the need for a second drive. Don't you need to decrypt a DVD and sometimes shrink it before writing it to another DVD anyway? In my experience, the writable DVD drives read nearly as fast as a non writable drive...besides, if you're playing DVD movies, the drive has to actually slow down to play them. There is software out there that does just that to reduce noise levels in movie mode.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » June 20, 2005, 11:53 pm

will update in the morning. thanks with some more good food for thought!

yeah Marb, i'm going Mid-tower, so i will look at the Sonata case.

i have to say i like cases that the door opens like the In-Win one i linked. I also like thumbscrews on most (all) places. I dont plan to tinker in this case like i have in the past, so that isnt critical, but it is still something i like.

you guys have sold me on a second DVD drive.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » June 21, 2005, 12:22 am

Here's a Firefly DVD cover I made from stealing various graphics off the net. Looks better than the real DVDs! Still bought the Set but these are my loaners.

Maxell printables are better than some other brands because the hole in the middle is smaller so more space for graphics compared to the CD in the Epson picture above.

Sionistic · Post by **Sionistic** » June 21, 2005, 12:46 am

If you are a real freak about noise reduction, Antec has a fanless power supply. The external case is a big heat sink, pretty cool. However I believe it only puts out 350w, which might be a little low for some.

Drolgin Steingrinder · Post by **Drolgin Steingrinder** » June 21, 2005, 7:09 am

Winnow wrote:
All the new DVD Write drives are both +R and -R. I use both media in my Pioneer 109. The +R's burn at 12X in about 8 mins 30 secs, the -R's burn at 12X in about 7 mins 30 secs.

Not true. Samsung dvd burners *still* have issues with +R.

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » June 21, 2005, 9:33 am

For ripping CDs, installing software, etc.. my non-writeable drive is way faster than the other one, which is still significantly slower than my old 48x Plextor (SCSI!) CD drive.

For backing up DVDs having 2 drives is nice, it takes about 3 hours to rip\write with DVD Shrink+Nero. I just light it off and go to bed, head to the store or whatever.

Inkjets suck.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » June 21, 2005, 1:30 pm

Aabidano wrote:For ripping CDs, installing software, etc.. my non-writeable drive is way faster than the other one, which is still significantly slower than my old 48x Plextor (SCSI!) CD drive.

For backing up DVDs having 2 drives is nice, it takes about 3 hours to rip\write with DVD Shrink+Nero. I just light it off and go to bed, head to the store or whatever.

Inkjets suck.

Droglin, Samsungs may suck but they are officially listed as writing to both formats...that's why you do your research first like Voro is and get suggestions from people that have experience with various brands and models. DVD writers are still extremely picky with what brands of -R and +R media they work with and also what Writers have more success with producing DVDs that will play in certain stand alone DVD players and consoles.

Aabidano, I'm right there with you on the Ink Jets sucking part. I have a laser printer for normal documents but you aren't going to get the quality and ease of printing CD/DVD labels as the 89.00 Epson R200. Stickers suck ass, Laser etching is black and white and takes 30 minutes or more per label (not practical at all). In this case, ink jets don't suck, they blow anything else within 1000.00 out of the water for the purpose of labeling DVDs.

Perhaps you need a better DVD writer if it's that much slower when reading...and who the fuck is going to get SCSI these days. Compare apples to apples.

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » June 21, 2005, 2:00 pm

[You have improved at Trolling] 6

Post by **Xouqoa** » June 21, 2005, 2:08 pm

I can't recommend BFG, Tech. video cards enough. The lifetime warranty is awesome and they don't give you any shit about it when something goes wrong. I even got upgraded from a 4600ti to a 5900XT the last time my 4600ti wimped out because they didn't sell it any more.

Drolgin Steingrinder · Post by **Drolgin Steingrinder** » June 21, 2005, 2:29 pm

5 different brands of +R media, 3 of them listed on Samsung's site as working with the drive and no firmware update available makes me say don't buy a Samsung DVD-burner.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » June 21, 2005, 2:58 pm

Drolgin Steingrinder wrote:5 different brands of +R media, 3 of them listed on Samsung's site as working with the drive and no firmware update available makes me say don't buy a Samsung DVD-burner.

/nod

You can waste a ton of money on DVD recordable media. I'm serious about the "made in Japan" comment. It makes a huge difference.

Some useful feedback on media compatibility can be found here but usually it takes a little more digging.

http://www.videohelp.com/dvdmedia