If you search for the words "democracy" or "Tienamen Square" (unless i spelled it wrong) in MSN or Yahoo's search form from within China, you get an error message.
Is this unethical for American businesses to participate in China's censorship of its population, or is it simply doing international business respecting the culture and policies of the foreign country?
SEATTLE (Reuters) - Microsoft Corp.'s new MSN China Internet venture is censoring words such as "freedom," "democracy" and "human rights" on its free online journals, Microsoft said Tuesday, putting itself in the middle of a major Web controversy.
The world's largest software maker said that its "MSN Spaces" service operated out of China, which allows users to set up their own blogs, or online journals, was acting in accordance with local laws.
"MSN abides by the laws, regulations and norms of each country in which it operates," said Brooke Richardson, MSN lead product manager.
MSN abides by the laws, regulations and norms of each country in which it operates
Many (most?) countries do this, someone's just looking for a news story.
The US and some European countries are the exception, not the rule. I've worked on a number of nations national telecommunications networks, the state controls all inbound and outbound pipes and the traffic they carry.
"Life is what happens while you're making plans for later."
Voronwë wrote:If you search for the words "democracy" or "Tienamen Square" (unless i spelled it wrong) in MSN or Yahoo's search form from within China, you get an error message.
Is this unethical for American businesses to participate in China's censorship of its population, or is it simply doing international business respecting the culture and policies of the foreign country?
SEATTLE (Reuters) - Microsoft Corp.'s new MSN China Internet venture is censoring words such as "freedom," "democracy" and "human rights" on its free online journals, Microsoft said Tuesday, putting itself in the middle of a major Web controversy.
The world's largest software maker said that its "MSN Spaces" service operated out of China, which allows users to set up their own blogs, or online journals, was acting in accordance with local laws.
"MSN abides by the laws, regulations and norms of each country in which it operates," said Brooke Richardson, MSN lead product manager.
Do the Chinese not know how to use dude speak? When a new movie torrent is release you will often see something like SP1DERM4N to avoid detection by Teh Authoritah!
Animalor wrote:Corporations aren't about spreading freedom or democracy. They're about the almighty buck.
I'm sure every single one of you all would censor shit like this if it allowed you to get your company operating in the world's 2nd strongest economy.
those corporations only exist because of the free economy in the United States. Without the free exchange of ideas, the majority of the infrastructure that those companies depend on to conduct their business - both real, and virtual - would not exist.
I argue that those companies would not exist outside of this economy which would not exist outside of a representative democracy.
i am not saying they are legally obligated to do otherwise than to make money, but to actively cooperate in censoring content about things like that is pretty disrespectful of the client base they are so desperate to serve.
one can only hope that as market forces do gain traction in China the consumer base will remember these offenses, and reward the offenders by not patroning their products.
Voronwë wrote:one can only hope that as market forces do gain traction in China the consumer base will remember these offenses, and reward the offenders by not patroning their products.
Is it the vendors fault the Govt is repressive? I think the consumers are smart enough to see cause and effect.
"Life is what happens while you're making plans for later."
In my opinion, the most effective, bloodless way to 'convert' a repressive nation to democracy is to let capitalism pave the way. The growth of affluence amongst private citizens creates an environment where the individual has more to lose by oppression and more to gain by increased personal freedom and liberties. As modern consumer electronics saturate a nation with strict control over the media, it becomes more difficult to prevent information leaks for outside sources.
Animalor wrote:Corporations aren't about spreading freedom or democracy. They're about the almighty buck.
I'm sure every single one of you all would censor shit like this if it allowed you to get your company operating in the world's 2nd strongest economy.
those corporations only exist because of the free economy in the United States. Without the free exchange of ideas, the majority of the infrastructure that those companies depend on to conduct their business - both real, and virtual - would not exist.
I argue that those companies would not exist outside of this economy which would not exist outside of a representative democracy.
i am not saying they are legally obligated to do otherwise than to make money, but to actively cooperate in censoring content about things like that is pretty disrespectful of the client base they are so desperate to serve.
I'm not gonna debate this cause I agree with you.
When a company bends itself to stuff like this, imo they work with the govt to oppress the people. In the long run hoever, I believe these companies and infrastructure will enable a flow of information that will be impossible for the government to stem.
Animalor wrote:In the long run hoever, I believe these companies and infrastructure will enable a flow of information that will be impossible for the government to stem.
In countries like China that are trying to compete globally yes. They don't have a lot of choice really.
Someplace like Saudi? Not the same situation at all, it would take a couple generations.
"Life is what happens while you're making plans for later."
Funny you should mention Saudi Arabia, by rights (I.e if it was not such a corrupt piece of shit) the people would be rich (natural resources ftw!) and the country would be extremely competitive in many areas.
Sadly, this is not the case.
God knows why....
On topic, this is pretty shit, and I hate how the all pervading green paper we all desperately fuck ourselves in the ass for dictates the short term evolution of millions (billions?) but I can also see Voro's and Animalors point.
Which is something to be optimistic about....sort of.
Animalor wrote:Corporations aren't about spreading freedom or democracy. They're about the almighty buck.
I'm sure every single one of you all would censor shit like this if it allowed you to get your company operating in the world's 2nd strongest economy.
those corporations only exist because of the free economy in the United States. Without the free exchange of ideas, the majority of the infrastructure that those companies depend on to conduct their business - both real, and virtual - would not exist.
I argue that those companies would not exist outside of this economy which would not exist outside of a representative democracy.
i am not saying they are legally obligated to do otherwise than to make money, but to actively cooperate in censoring content about things like that is pretty disrespectful of the client base they are so desperate to serve.
I'm not gonna debate this cause I agree with you.
When a company bends itself to stuff like this, imo they work with the govt to oppress the people. In the long run hoever, I believe these companies and infrastructure will enable a flow of information that will be impossible for the government to stem.
If they refused to put in the filters, China would ban them, so it comes down to a question of Microsoft's ethics?
Heheheh, did I just say Microsoft and ethics in the same sentence?
May 2003 - "Mission Accomplished"
June 2005 - "The mission isn't easy, and it will not be accomplished overnight"
-- G W Bush, freelance writer for The Daily Show.
Winnow wrote:
So you're going to bash Microsoft over this but give Google and others a free ride? I see how you operate!
Eh? Article is primarily about MS/MSN =) I just think it's comical to think this is even an ethical dilema for Microsoft, albeit a dubious one; they're simply complying with Chinese law at their own expense.
The US is one of the most heavily censored western countries anyway, so ya'll should be eminently comfortable with this.
But yes, any excuse to bash Microsoft is a good excuse
May 2003 - "Mission Accomplished"
June 2005 - "The mission isn't easy, and it will not be accomplished overnight"
-- G W Bush, freelance writer for The Daily Show.
When I worked at CompuServe back in the day we had to do similar things for different countries. The largest of which was making sure any Nazi related information was censored to German residents and also making sure there was extra tight controls on anything that might be considered "porn" in Germany. Not that Compuserve really had porn, but they were uptight about anyone under 18 accidently seeing a breast in Germany.
one thing that crossed my mind on this subject this morning was the following: will American companies cooperating in the supression of democracy and preserving the power structure of the Beighing government generate anti-American sentiment among the people.
An analogy would be the petrochemical industry contributing to the power of autocratic regimes in the Middle East, which some argue has contributed substantially to the anti-Western bent of Islamic extremists.
Voronwë wrote:one thing that crossed my mind on this subject this morning was the following: will American companies cooperating in the supression of democracy and preserving the power structure of the Beighing government generate anti-American sentiment among the people.
