School Suspends 2 Over 'Vagina' Buttons

Dexail · Post by **Dexail** » April 22, 2005, 9:19 am

School Suspends 2 Over 'Vagina' Buttons
Apr 22, 6:49 AM EST

The off-Broadway hit "The Vagina Monologues" has gotten two high school students into trouble.

The students were admonished for wearing buttons inspired by the show that say "I (heart) My Vagina."

The American Civil Liberties Union of Minnesota has offered to help students fight any consequences from their actions.

The trouble started last month after student Carrie Rethlefsen saw Eve Ensler's play about female sexuality and sexual violence against women. Rethlefsen and fellow student Emily Nixon soon began wearing the buttons.

"We can't really find out what is inappropriate about it," Rethlefsen, 18, told the Star Tribune of Minneapolis. "I don't think banning things like that is appropriate."

As a show of support, more than 100 students have ordered T-shirts bearing "I (heart) My Vagina" for girls and "I Support Your Vagina" for boys.

Principal Nancy Wondrasch said some in school find the buttons offensive.

"We support free speech," she said. "But when it does infringe on other people's rights and our school policies, then we need to take a look at that."[/url]

Dexail · Post by **Dexail** » April 22, 2005, 9:20 am

I just thought there was some humor involved there with the boys showing their support also.

Such a supporting school.

Xzion · Post by **Xzion** » April 22, 2005, 9:28 am

im personally offended by the word vagina, how dare they support there own sexuality and acknowledge that they hold a certain reproductive organ....its the godamn "smut" in the media thats creating these treasonous god-hating americans

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » April 22, 2005, 10:17 am

It's just as inapropriate at school as it would be in any other workplace.

I cackle with delight when teenagers get a dose of reality once they start working.

RandomTeen001 wrote:It's not fair!

Bwahahahahah!

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » April 22, 2005, 12:28 pm

On the contrary, I think it's great that schools are set up in a way to protect some student rights, helping teach them to think for themselves and value their freedoms.

Additionally, going to your workplace is not legally mandated.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » April 22, 2005, 12:31 pm

your workplace is a private establishment (most likely), not a government service.

additionally, you are compensated for going to work, and as a result, you consent to varying levels of organizational control over your person.

nobody · Post by **nobody** » April 22, 2005, 12:47 pm

i saw a kid working at a kiosk at the mall wearing a shirt that said in big bold letters: FREE COCK RIDE

truly amazing

Nick · Post by **Nick** » April 22, 2005, 12:56 pm

Free speech is not free speech if you aren't allowed to do it because some people might be offended by it.

I don't give a shit if it is in a school or not, people shouldn't be hidden from the fact that they have perfectly normal fucking organs.
It's crazy.

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » April 22, 2005, 1:15 pm

Open debate over a social issue isn't at all the same at all as someone thinking to make a social statement wearing a "I (heart) My Vagina." button, assuming she didn't wear it for the "tee hee" factor. No one in all likelyhood has the slightest idea what the button represents. Other than thinking she's rather fond of her privates.

Teeny, I would guess that nearly every other women there has the same organs, why does it need to be brought up? Suppose you were to remind every one of your coworkers that you have a tiny johnson every day. Would that be appropriate?

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » April 22, 2005, 1:22 pm

Once again, you have NO RIGHTS, including the rights to free speech in this country until you are of the legal age of 18.

Sorry to bust your bubble but this won't be overturned.

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » April 22, 2005, 1:23 pm

my junior year in high school, one of the guys who was running for senior president was handing out pins with an unshelled peanut glued to them saying, "don't bust a nut, vote for _name_." all he got from the school was a hi, please don't do that anymore thanks.

i think suspending the girls was a little over the top. the article doesn't really detail if there were any events leading up to the suspension, but i hope they at least talked to the girls first and/or their parents before slapping them with a suspension.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » April 22, 2005, 1:24 pm

Aabidano wrote:Open debate over a social issue isn't at all the same at all as someone thinking to make a social statement wearing a "I (heart) My Vagina." button, assuming she didn't wear it for the "tee hee" factor. No one in all likelyhood has the slightest idea what the button represents. Other than thinking she's rather fond of her privates.

Teeny, I would guess that nearly every other women there has the same organs, why does it need to be brought up? Suppose you were to remind every one of your coworkers that you have a tiny johnson every day. Would that be appropriate?

There's nothing wrong with "I

My Vagina" or "I

My Penis. I don't see why anyone (a reasonable anyone) would be offended by that. Now, if it said something like "I

My Cunt" or "I

My Cock" then yeah maybe...

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » April 22, 2005, 1:36 pm

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:Once again, you have NO RIGHTS, including the rights to free speech in this country until you are of the legal age of 18.

Sorry to bust your bubble but this won't be overturned.

that would be a great soundbite.

but its not at all true.

suspending the girls shows the typical problem with discipline of kids that age, where people try to be a hard ass. that only gets kids to rebel more. that's not to say there arent times when being a hardass is the best disciplinary method, but for a couple of pins that can be easily removed?

that being said, it is legal for schools to implement and enforce a dress code. I am going to go out on a limb and say that this school did not have it written in its dress code that the penalty for wearing "inappropriate" 'flair' would be suspension. I'm going to speculate that some dickweed Assistant Principal had a bad day because dealing with teenagers every day would drive anybody insane.

Trias · Post by **Trias** » April 22, 2005, 1:46 pm

i support your cunt!

Brotha · Post by **Brotha** » April 22, 2005, 1:53 pm

While this action may or may not have warranted something as harsh as suspension, the very fact that we even need to debate whether it's appropriate or not to wear "I

My Vagina" buttons to school is pretty sad. Man I'm starting to sound like my dad...

On a side note, something sort of similar to this happened at my high school. We were having the annual homecoming parade and each group or club had its own float, t-shirt, etc. I was part of a club called the "senior men," we didn't really do too much, it was just a bunch of, well, senior men who would hang out. Anyways, we designed shirts for our group to wear for homecoming. On the front it had a picture of a rooster with "Senior cocks" written above it, then on the back it said "We rise to the occassion" (yes, I purposely mis-spelled occasion, it was mis-spelled on the shirt...another reason we were all made fun of!). All of us signed the back of the shirt, then the shirt was made. We wore our shirts to class and all the principal had to do was read the names on the back, call us into his office one by one, and suspend us for the rest of the day. It was one of the most stupid things I've ever done, but none of us complained about being punished for it.

I don't really buy that these students "couldn't find anything inappropriate" about it. At the very least they should have known that the buttons would be controversial and disruptive.

Drasta · Post by **Drasta** » April 22, 2005, 1:59 pm

welcome to prude america ... euro people ... do you think the same thing would be happening over in your countries?

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » April 22, 2005, 2:10 pm

/applaud.

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » April 22, 2005, 2:12 pm

The only thing less intelligent than two high school girls wearing those buttons is debating this based on the article.

You have no idea of any of the actual interplay that occured, it is one thing to have a small sized or "standard" type button, and to wear it without drawing attention to it. But I have money that says they drew as much attention to it as possible, they cannot restrict your free speech entirely ( but drug searches, piss tests for all high school students (not just jocks) etc have shown time and time again tha it is an issue of disrupting the learning process .
I agree with not allowing it in a high school over all, and it is not prudish, it just is reality that teens have a hard enough time thinking about anything else than their or someones elses pussy as it is.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » April 22, 2005, 2:17 pm

Kylere wrote:The only thing less intelligent than two high school girls wearing those buttons is debating this based on the article.

You have no idea of any of the actual interplay that occured, it is one thing to have a small sized or "standard" type button, and to wear it without drawing attention to it. But I have money that says they drew as much attention to it as possible, they cannot restrict your free speech entirely ( but drug searches, piss tests for all high school students (not just jocks) etc have shown time and time again tha it is an issue of disrupting the learning process .
I agree with not allowing it in a high school over all, and it is not prudish, it just is reality that teens have a hard enough time thinking about anything else than their or someones elses pussy as it is.

Stop trying to makes so much sense. Common sense and logic doesn't play well here.

Lohrno · Post by **Lohrno** » April 22, 2005, 2:37 pm

Kylere wrote:it just is reality that teens have a hard enough time thinking about anything else than their or someones elses pussy as it is.

Don't you think that it would be less of an issue if we didn't make such a big deal about it like we do?

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » April 22, 2005, 2:56 pm

Lohrno wrote:
Kylere wrote:it just is reality that teens have a hard enough time thinking about anything else than their or someones elses pussy as it is.
Don't you think that it would be less of an issue if we didn't make such a big deal about it like we do?

If you turn a blind eye, you can pretty much avoid all conflict. Pretending something isn't a problem is a pretty easy thing to do for pathetic pussies (pun intended) like you.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » April 22, 2005, 2:58 pm

the only way to make sure that this will never happen again, and the massive damage to the school population is to expel the students.

in this culture war, you can't afford to take any prisoners!!!!!

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » April 22, 2005, 3:35 pm

Aab wrote:No one in all likelyhood has the slightest idea what the button represents. Other than thinking she's rather fond of her privates.

I'm really surprised by this. I would have immediately identified the button as being associated with the Vagina Monologues without any hesitation. I also expect that almost everyone in my social circle would have done the same.

Perhaps it's a generational issue. I'm 21 and in college, and the Vagina Monologues is (more or less) performed every year on, like, every campus in the country. I've seen so many signs and buttons and shirts and speeches and statements about peoples vaginas that I immediately place them into the proper context. Most of the shit floating around is far more offensive than "I heart my vagina."

I know you're older than me. Perhaps not as many older people are or have been exposed to the Vagina Monologues and thus would not identify the message on the pin. I can say that my mother at least, and probably my father, would also have identified the message immediately despite being around 50.

Kilmoll wrote:Once again, you have NO RIGHTS, including the rights to free speech in this country until you are of the legal age of 18.

Kilmoll, I'm sorry, but you're just wrong. Like Voronwe said, this is a factually incorrect statement.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » April 22, 2005, 3:43 pm

http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_stud.html

Read up gentlemen and then get back to me with your retractions.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » April 22, 2005, 3:58 pm

Kilmoll wrote:Once again, you have NO RIGHTS, including the rights to free speech in this country until you are of the legal age of 18.

Emphasis part yours (capitalization) and part mine (bold, italics, underlines).

your link wrote:However, minors are a special category of person, and in many cases, the rights of minors can be suppressed in ways that the rights of adults simply may not be.

your link wrote:students in public schools are not stripped of their rights completely

case law cited in your link wrote:It can hardly be argued that either students or teachers shed their constitutional rights to freedom of speech or expression at the schoolhouse gate

Emphasis all mine.

The link you provided disproved your statement in it's second sentence.

After you read up, your retraction is welcome any time.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » April 22, 2005, 4:12 pm

limitation of rights != absence of rights

i dont think the main issue is even a rights issue here. i think what is more relevant is appropriateness of response.

kids do stuff to be outrageous. often times, having an extreme response (suspension) to something relatively minor like this will only encourage the behavior.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » April 22, 2005, 4:16 pm

Fine....I will amend my statement......as it applies to this case, they have no rights.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » April 22, 2005, 4:25 pm

That is probably true.

Niffoni · Post by **Niffoni** » April 22, 2005, 4:40 pm

Having solved all other problems in America, I strongly recommend you devote all your resouces to ensuring that this ZOMG NEVAR HAPPENS AGAIN!

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » April 22, 2005, 10:09 pm

I was tempted to bring this up in the thread about that screaming and abusive teacher in New Jersey when you said students don't have 1st amendment rights. I don't know what in the world ever gave you such an idea but it is patently false. The very idea that your country's educational system could possibly somehow prevent someone's constitutional right to free speech should shock and horrify you beyond belief, but for some reason you seemed to revel in your mistaken belief. But then I don't know you too well. You might also dig those text books in Georgia that warn children that evolution is just a theory.

http://www.njsbf.com/njsbf/student/studentsrights.cfm
http://www.njsbf.com/njsbf/student/studentsrights.cfm

Speech and Political Expression

Freedom from governmental interference with speech is guaranteed to everyone in New Jersey by the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution and by Article 1, paragraphs 4, 6 and 18 of the New Jersey Constitution. Public school teachers and administrators are all considered governmental actors, which means that students have free speech rights at public schools. It also means that school officials must provide students wide latitude in the expression of their ideas and opinions.

These rights, however, do have limitations. Students may not encourage others to commit acts of violence.67 Students who make false personal attacks may be disciplined or sued for slander or libel. In addition, if their speech is obscene, students may be punished by both school and government authorities. Moreover, the U.S. Supreme Court has held that a school district may discipline a student for using sexual innuendo in a speech, even though the speech would not have been punishable if given outside of school.68 Similarly, in an earlier New Jersey decision, the court found that students who screamed lewd and obscene chants at a basketball game were so "loud, offensive, disruptive, and disturbing to neighboring spectators" that the students forfeited their First Amendment rights.69

In addition, school officials can impose reasonable restrictions on when, where and how speech activities can take place in order to prevent disruption of educational activities. For example, a school can limit passing out flyers in hallways to times before and after school and during lunch in order to protect students and maintain a proper educational environment.70 A school could not, however, maintain a blanket rule against handing out literature anywhere or at any time during school.71

Students cannot be disciplined for merely expressing an idea, as long as that expression does not disrupt educational activity or interfere with the rights of others.72 This rule applies whether students are communicating an idea or political viewpoint as part of a class discussion or protesting a government or school policy outside class. No peaceful expression, no matter how unpopular or controversial, may be censored.

Lohrno · Post by **Lohrno** » April 22, 2005, 10:13 pm

I remember that. I would say though that the teacher's abusive attitude was the most upsetting thing in that video. I would not want my kids screamed at like that, and would be most miffed.

The chair pulling thing was okay I guess, it's not like he floored the kid. That kid would have been perfectly within his rights to go sit on the windowsil too...

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » April 22, 2005, 10:52 pm

kyoukan wrote:You might also dig those text books in Georgia that warn children that evolution is just a theory.

Don't forget the school books in Kansas that cannot even mention Evolution.

Hesten · Post by **Hesten** » April 22, 2005, 11:02 pm

Damn, its actually amazing what people can find to get outraged over.

I could understand other problems with what people are wearing in schools.
In DK we got a debate ATM where schools try to make some rules so 12 year olds girls dont show up in suntops and miniskirts. Now thats something i can at least agree on, because that might provoke some sickos, and its not really appropriate for girls of that age.

But to get pissed of a button with a quote from a popular play/show? Jessu christ guys, i think I would have been burned at the stake or quartered over in the US for the stunt we pulled on a guy on the last day of school (he deserved it though).

Asheran Mojomaster · Post by **Asheran Mojomaster** » April 23, 2005, 7:18 pm

Schools are fucking crazy now, you can get suspeneded for anything, even if they have no proof...I was almost suspended by my vice principal a few weeks ago because he had a suspicion that I had thrown a roll during lunch and hit a girl and had put a highlighter in a fish tank in my 2nd period class. I didnt do either one, I knew who did both of them, but I didnt do it, and I had to call my mom and talk to our Principal for hours to get it changed.

I was suspended this week for a day because I let someone see my wallet (had no money in it, they wanted to see my license picture), and another kid took a condom out of it, opened it, and threw it at a girl. I had no idea he took it out, and everyone in that class said they saw him throw it and that I had no part in it and I was still suspended because I allowed him to have access to a condom, lol, and it wasnt appropriate to let a 9th grader have a condom for some reason. Half the 9th graders at my school have sex regularly, I should be able to pass them out if I really wanted to.

Llaffer · Post by **Llaffer** » April 23, 2005, 9:52 pm

Reminds me of a t-shirt that our high-school drum line made one year that received a BANNED from the school administrators unless we "Censored" it.

The only thing on the shirt: SUCK AND YOU DIE

We saw how someone could take that the wrong way, but for god's sakes, we were a drum line - every one knew what we meant. If someone took it wrong, it's their own damn fault.

We had to Duct/Masking tape over the words Suck and Die, or else be sent home with an unexcused absense.

And this was 14 years ago.

Llaffer · Post by **Llaffer** » April 23, 2005, 9:55 pm

Asheran Mojomaster wrote:... I was still suspended because I allowed him to have access to a condom...

But it's perfect acceptable to have the school nurse pass them out without parental consent.

Asheran Mojomaster · Post by **Asheran Mojomaster** » April 23, 2005, 10:55 pm

Llaffer wrote:
Asheran Mojomaster wrote:... I was still suspended because I allowed him to have access to a condom...
But it's perfect acceptable to have the school nurse pass them out without parental consent.

Yeah, exactly, and I didnt even GIVE it to him, he STOLE it from me...I think they should have condom machines in the school, with high quality condoms in it, not shitty ones. That would help a lot...hell they could put them in the bathrooms so it would be easier to get them without anyone seeing you if that bothers you. Its not too hard to ask to go to the restroom during class and grab one when everyone else is in class.

But for some reason, the very fact that I had it in my wallet so he could steal it was enough for me to get suspended.

Tenuvil · Post by **Tenuvil** » April 23, 2005, 11:35 pm

Asheran Mojomaster wrote:Schools are fucking crazy now, you can get suspeneded for anything, even if they have no proof...

Public schools right now are the worst possible place for kids. I'm appalled at how much school administrators can get away with. As a student kids have less rights than convicted criminals. I guess this is happening to soften up the young people and get us ready for the coming New World Order.

Asheran Mojomaster · Post by **Asheran Mojomaster** » April 23, 2005, 11:55 pm

Hell no it doesnt, all it does is cause us to hate any authority figure. I mean there are teachers and some of the rest of the administration at my school that I like, and really respect, but then there are some who are only there because they get off on telling kids what to do. My Vice Principal is like that, he just looks for reasons to punish people.

If he doesnt like you, you are pretty much screwed for the rest of your time in high school, because if anything bad happens, you will be one of the first people he tries to pin with it. I have been able to stay mostly off his radar until this year, but now in my senior year he is blaming me with everything he can fucking think of. I mean, I'm not a good kid hehe, I do shit, but he never blames me or is able to prove that I did anything I actually did, but he tries to make it seem like I've did all sorts of shit thats way worse than anything I really do do.

I cant wait until I see him after I graduate, if I ever see him out I'm gonna fucking chew his nazi ass out. I cant really do that right now because I'd probably be expelled.