PCI express, DDR2 etc.

Knarlz · Post by **Knarlz** » December 9, 2004, 2:18 pm

The old lady is finally going to let me replace my moldy comp. There is no way I am going to build one but I had some questions about the new generation “925”, ddr2, pci express stuff.

The following is a Dell package I might consider.
Of course it has a Dell motherboard etc.

Dell Dimension XPS Gen4

Pentium® 4 Processor 550 with HT Technology (3.40GHz, 800 FSB)

1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz (2x512M)

19 in 1905FP Dell Ultrasharp™ Digital Flat Panel

256MB PCI Express™ x16 (DVI/VGA/TV-out) ATI Radeon™ X800 XT

With shipping this is about $2500, the upper end of my budget.
2-gig ddr2 or a faster processor pushes it over the top. Perhaps I could upgrade later but....

But basically do you think this form factor is here to stay and be supported in the future?

Kluden · Post by **Kluden** » December 9, 2004, 2:23 pm

PCI-Express and DDR2 are both the "logical" next step in the evolution of their respective formats.

Will the industry actually go that route? Who knows, let us not forget RAMBUS.

I would say you'll be fine. Intel, atleast, will be going that route, and if you buy a Dell, you won't have to worry about fixing any of the issues that come up with the newer technology.

That would be the other problem, this stuff is still very new. I would say wait a while before jumping in on ground level, but with Dell support, if it don't work, they replace, so I guess you can't really go wrong.

That's my 2 cents, and I"m sure you will get 100 responses to the contrary.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » December 9, 2004, 2:25 pm

Knarlz wrote:The old lady is finally going to let me replace my moldy comp. There is no way I am going to build one but I had some questions about the new generation “925”, ddr2, pci express stuff.

The following is a Dell package I might consider.
Of course it has a Dell motherboard etc.

Dell Dimension XPS Gen4

Pentium® 4 Processor 550 with HT Technology (3.40GHz, 800 FSB)

1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz (2x512M)

19 in 1905FP Dell Ultrasharp™ Digital Flat Panel

256MB PCI Express™ x16 (DVI/VGA/TV-out) ATI Radeon™ X800 XT

With shipping this is about $2500, the upper end of my budget.
2-gig ddr2 or a faster processor pushes it over the top. Perhaps I could upgrade later but....

But basically do you think this form factor is here to stay and be supported in the future?

This would be an excellent computer. 1GB is fine for memory and you can always increase it to 2GB later if needed. The graphics card is the best available at this time.

It looks like a nice setup including the 19" LCD.

Trias · Post by **Trias** » December 9, 2004, 2:49 pm

everything looks good there

dell's ultrasharp flatpanel's are very nice; you won't be disappointed

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » December 9, 2004, 3:49 pm

Very nice system

and a Dell, 2 Thumbs up here!

Marb

Adelrune Argenti · Post by **Adelrune Argenti** » December 9, 2004, 3:59 pm

That is a great system and you should be happy with it Knarlz.

Tenuvil · Post by **Tenuvil** » December 9, 2004, 4:55 pm

That looks r0x0r but I'd build my own.

Traz-KOE · Post by **Traz-KOE** » December 9, 2004, 11:33 pm

It's a nice package, but read up on WUXGA first. I've heard a lot of complaints from people that the ultra-high resolution is too much for a 15.4" screen.

Ransure · Post by **Ransure** » December 10, 2004, 12:08 am

1905FP is a 19" viewable monitor... but how much are you paying for it?

Yesterday Dell was selling bother thier 2001FP and 2005FP (both 20" panels 12ms response, the 2005 is widescreen and higher res) for $549....

Keep up with http://www.slickdeals.net Dell monitors go on sale about once a week there, and they always have good dell online discount codes for systems...

You might want to check out your local small computer shop to see if they build computers and see how much they would build that system for you for.... Could quite possibly save you a bunch... I think I could build something similar for about 1500-2k.. or with AMD I know I could do it for $1500.

Drolgin Steingrinder · December 10, 2004, 10:16 am

wow knarlz - finally replacing that old 386 machine?

Fash · Post by **Fash** » December 10, 2004, 10:58 am

Building a computer used to be the way to go.... I used to replace my computer on a yearly basis... I used to build computers for people, but ever since the 3.0ghz mark, it just doesn't seem worth it anymore.

My computer is 2 years old.... you'd think by that age, it would be an obsolete piece of shit... but it's a 3 ghz HTT with everything top of the line short of PCI-E and DDR2. Two years old. TWO YEARS OLD!!!...

With the low low prices available from dell, that's where my next system will come from... but when the fuck am I going to need a new one?.. this I can't figure out.

Knarlz · Post by **Knarlz** » December 10, 2004, 11:56 am

One reason I'm considering Dell is that they do have a good support reputation ( plus I could always have Zyree flog them ). Seeing as how this stuff is relitvely new, that would be a good thing.
If I built it myself or had the shop down the street put it together there might be issues.

I can't really tell how much the monitor is. At the moment the bundle has a "free" 17" lcd. I've heard good things about their 19" ultra sharp for gaming. It's about $288 to up grade from the "free" one. It's $450 more for the 20.1"

This could all change by January which is when I'll be able to buy something.

Knarlz · Post by **Knarlz** » December 10, 2004, 12:29 pm

http://www.slickdeals.net

Holy cow.
This is a great site.
There is a stealth Dell coupon for 30% off for the next 3 days ( as compaired to their 15% listed ) this brings the cost down to $2055.

I will have to go back and bump up a feature or 2 and check with the old lady to see if any of the credit cards have any room left.

Thanks Doku

Hoarmurath · Post by **Hoarmurath** » December 10, 2004, 12:35 pm

Traz-KOE wrote:It's a nice package, but read up on WUXGA first. I've heard a lot of complaints from people that the ultra-high resolution is too much for a 15.4" screen.

I used a 15.4" WUXGA laptop for several months, running at 1920x1200. At first, I did think that everything was too small, but I ended up getting used to it. The real problem is that once you do get used to it, everything else will look horrible in comparison! I think the stats on my laptop display was 147 pixels per inch, and everything was really sharp and crisp and beautiful. Now I have a Powerbook that has the same size screen, but is only 100 pixels per inch at 1280x854, and it took a little getting used to after the super-nice WUXGA display.

So, if your eyes can take it, you will absolutely love WUXGA, although it might be too small for you.

Best advice would be to test it out for a while (even 15 minutes in a store should work) to see if it will be something that you can get used to , or if it's just way too small.

Good luck!

Tenuvil · Post by **Tenuvil** » December 10, 2004, 1:05 pm

Hoarmurath wrote:
Traz-KOE wrote:It's a nice package, but read up on WUXGA first. I've heard a lot of complaints from people that the ultra-high resolution is too much for a 15.4" screen.
I used a 15.4" WUXGA laptop for several months, running at 1920x1200. At first, I did think that everything was too small, but I ended up getting used to it. The real problem is that once you do get used to it, everything else will look horrible in comparison!

I just upped the resolution on my gf's machine from 1024x768 to 1280x1024. Boy did she complain at first, but now she likes the higher resolution, and last night when I fired up my point of sale machine that uses onboard video at 1024x768, she mentioned how big and crappy it looked.

Fash wrote:when the fuck am I going to need a new one?.. this I can't figure out.

When the next version of Windows is released.

Fash · Post by **Fash** » December 10, 2004, 1:15 pm

Tenuvil wrote:
Fash wrote:when the fuck am I going to need a new one?.. this I can't figure out.
When the next version of Windows is released.

Hehe... funny, but nah...

anyone else check out a beta of Longhorn??...

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » December 10, 2004, 1:23 pm

Hoarmurath wrote: I used a 15.4" WUXGA laptop for several months, running at 1920x1200. At first, I did think that everything was too small, but I ended up getting used to it.

Damn! That's a really high res for a 15" monitor. Cool : )

On my 19" CRT, I'm stuck with 1280X1024 before the refresh rate drops below 80Hz which I won't use. 1920X1200 on a LCD must rock without any concerns about refresh rate.

I was looking at the Samsung 24" LCD with 1920X1200. I want a widescreen monitor to compliment my 1280X720 Projector.

The picture doesn't give you the feel for how massive this monitor is. I played around with it at Fry's and it's huge with bright colorful picture, good viewing angles, and also performs well playing FPS games (some LCDs ghost a lot with rapid motion).

I want one like this that can easily swing into portrait so I can read full page comic images : ) You've got to have priorities man! It's 1899.00 with 100.00 mail in rebait at Frys. I wish it was in the 1200.00 range. I may wait until it is.

Knarlz · Post by **Knarlz** » December 10, 2004, 5:32 pm

SAMSUNG - SyncMaster 403T 40-inch LCD Monitor
1280x768 Pixels, 0.681 mm Pixel Pitch, 16.7 Mn Colors, S-Video / DVI-D / Component / Composite / BNC / 15-Pin D-Sub Connectors
Dell Part #: A0131550, Manufacturer Part #: 403T-BLACK

on sale for less than 6k!

Knarlz- "Honey do we have 2k I can charge today?"

Old Lady- " Fuck off Knarlz "

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » December 14, 2004, 12:41 pm

I may be the only one who feels this way....but I would avoid Dell and Intel entirely right now. Intel is the only company pushing this PCI-express crap and I haev my doubts that it is going to catch on. By the time it does catch on, they will have come up with a new bus.

Dell "support" is based in India. If you have a problem, you can count on retardedness and having to ship the machine back to get it fixed. I have seen turnaround times of weeks on Dell machines of late. Another big issue is that PCI-E video cards are not exactly in high supply. They are priced higher for that reason and if something goes wrong you can add some extra time to get it repaired.

If I did not know how to build a machine and replace parts myself, I would highly recommend going to a "mom & pop" shop or even a place like CompUSA. They can build you a top end machine and you will definitely have it before the Dell would be shipped. You can also go an dget a part replaced same day if something goes out. Also highly recommend Athlon processors as you can stick with the AGP with Athlon and you will nto see any differnce in speed of the video card at all. As of now, the PCI-E does jack and shit to give you any advantage over AGP.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » December 14, 2004, 1:38 pm

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:Also highly recommend Athlon processors as you can stick with the AGP with Athlon and you will nto see any differnce in speed of the video card at all.

I was with you until that part! You can still go Intel and not be forced to use PCI-e.

I did try out an Intel based 775 socket motherboard and PCI-e video card briefly. I suppose the pins being on the motherboard instead of being attached to the CPU makes it slightly easier to install and switch but not by much. DDR2 memory is still too expensive and doesn't help much either for the price increase. The newer standard offers a little better onboard sound but overall it's not worth it. You're fine going with an AGP intel board like Abit or Asus and whatever speedy Intel CPU you feel like buying or OCing. Some new Athlon chips are ok as well but they'll melt any plastic within 5 feet of your computer. : )

On topic though, building your own system takes patience and time that just buying one won't require if you're lucky and it works out of the box. I've seen some of the people that work at CompUSA and I'm not sure I'd trust them to build a computer. I remember working at Insight and the computers that were coming off of our assembly line were horrible...stuff thrown in not even connected because of schedule problems etc, parts not screwed in or partially screwed in, video cards forced in with little care for being careful. If you're going to buy a prebuilt system, I'd go with something like Alienware. They seem to have a good rep and since they cater to gamers, might put a little more effort into building them as they know they'll come back if built poorly.

Kilmolls suggestion of buying locally isn't bad as long as you have a good warranty and can exchange things fast.

I've had a bad luck streak on motherboards which, next to your HD going out with important data, is the worst thing to fail for pain in the ass time required to replace.

Tenuvil · Post by **Tenuvil** » December 14, 2004, 1:49 pm

Winnow wrote:I did try out an Intel based 775 socket motherboard and PCI-e video card briefly. I suppose the pins being on the motherboard instead of being attached to the CPU makes it slightly easier to install and switch but not by much.

That 775 socket is awful. EVERY single display motherboard at Fry's had fucked up "pins" (plates? contact points?) on the CPU socket. The contact points were so fragile that it would appear to be super easy to fuck one up if one were to remove the CPU, and of course if you do fuck one up, throw out the motherboard.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » December 14, 2004, 1:56 pm

I personally feel that buying a system with the newest technology (DDR2, PCI-e, etc) is not worth the extra expense.

And LGA775 chips suck. Thanks NewEgg for sending me the wrong CPU. I need pins, damnit!

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » December 14, 2004, 2:09 pm

Tenuvil wrote: EVERY single display motherboard at Fry's had fucked up "pins" (plates? contact points?) on the CPU socket.

That's because I go to Fry's at lunch and bend the pins after poking holes in tweeters and punching in woofers over in the audio section!

I had no problem installing a 775. You do handle the CPU chip more than the motherboard so the pins being on the board in a sping configuration isn't a bad idea but it just transfers the major defect issues to the MB manufacters instead of Intel.

But yes, I was overall unimpressed with the new design and went back to the old style.

Knarlz · Post by **Knarlz** » December 14, 2004, 3:29 pm

The 30% off coupon deal on Dell high end systems has been replaced by the ever popular....

15% off no minimum Women's Notebook Bags : Code JP4H2LC7LKBCTW

I'm sure that will push Dell Xmas sales over the top.

The "Local" small shop has been open less than a year. So wouldn't want them to build anything. No doubt there are other shops in the area, but I don't want to ass around with them.

This is the first time I will be replacing a computer before the old one went stone cold dead. So I do have some time. I will probebly get a Dell system as discribed above if they bring it down to 2k again in Jan.

Knarlz · Post by **Knarlz** » December 17, 2004, 5:30 pm

On order due jan 5th or such.

Dell Dimension XPS Series - Gen 4
Pentium® 4 Processor 550 with HT Technology (3.40GHz, 800 FSB)

Memory-1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz (2x512M)

Monitor-19 in 1905FP Dell Ultrasharp™ Digital Flat Panel Display

Video Card-256MB PCI Express™ x16 (DVI/VGA/TV-out) ATI Radeon™ X800 XT

Sound Card-Sound Blaster Audigy™ 2 ZS (D) Card w/Dolby 5.1, IEEE 1394 capability

Beats the crap out of my p4, 1.4, 512 mem, with GF 2. (no apg slot)

Fash · Post by **Fash** » December 17, 2004, 5:33 pm

woot!

Siji · Post by **Siji** » December 17, 2004, 7:00 pm

Wish I saw this sooner.. I would really have recommended going with the next model down as the Dell XPS systems are simply WAY overpriced right now.

Over the last week I've been looking at Dell, HP and building another PC myself. I took an HP model with specific stats, designed a Dell to match, and then went to NewEgg and put the same stuff together myself. The results?

The custom built system was the cheapest price wise (even though I picked top of the line components) with the HP coming in a not far second and Dell 8900 being close behind. The Dell XPS system was WAY more expensive. The HP was more limiting in upgradability than the custom build. Dell doesn't do a very good job of giving enough information about what can be replaced/upgraded on their web page so I couldn't really determine that. In the long run, I ordered from NewEgg again and am putting it together myself.

In regards to the post above about Dell's support being in India, you must have missed the news awhile ago that Dell brought nearly all of their support back to the US due to a sales decline related directly to piss poor ratings on their support from India.. Only off-hours support comes from India now. For that reason alone (bringing jobs to the US) I'd buy from Dell.

In any case, since you already ordered it, I'm sure you're going to love it. It's a nice system indeed.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » December 17, 2004, 7:56 pm

Siji wrote:In regards to the post above about Dell's support being in India, you must have missed the news awhile ago that Dell brought nearly all of their support back to the US due to a sales decline related directly to piss poor ratings on their support from India.. Only off-hours support comes from India now. For that reason alone (bringing jobs to the US) I'd buy from Dell.

Bringing jobs to the US that they had previously outsourced. Sorta offtopic but I found that funny.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » December 17, 2004, 8:01 pm

Who weeps for those out of work in India? I expect an uproar if this news makes it to CE.

Siji · Post by **Siji** » December 19, 2004, 11:14 am

Aslanna wrote:
Siji wrote:In regards to the post above about Dell's support being in India, you must have missed the news awhile ago that Dell brought nearly all of their support back to the US due to a sales decline related directly to piss poor ratings on their support from India.. Only off-hours support comes from India now. For that reason alone (bringing jobs to the US) I'd buy from Dell.
Bringing jobs to the US that they had previously outsourced. Sorta offtopic but I found that funny.

It sucks that they sent jobs there in the first place of course, but I'd rather support them now that they've brought them back than support say HP who still has Abubar answering the phone saying his name is Tom.

VeeshanVault

PCI express, DDR2 etc.

PCI express, DDR2 etc.

Re: PCI express, DDR2 etc.