Couples may get chance to design the 'ideal' IVF baby

Rekaar. · Post by **Rekaar.** » November 12, 2004, 3:45 am

COUPLES will be able to choose donated sperm or eggs to create their designer child, under proposals published by the fertility watchdog.
Characteristics such as height, eye colour and intelligence could be selected if women undergoing fertility treatment are given more freedom to pick the donated sperm, egg or embryo.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0, ... 82,00.html - full story

What <strike>would</strike> will you do when the time comes? This extends into gene selection etc too. I think it's along similar lines.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » November 12, 2004, 3:53 am

Personally I don't support IVF at all, spending thousands in some freakish ego driven attempt to have your "own" child when there are so many kids that don't have homes just seems like a kind of mental illness to me.

Rivera Bladestrike · November 12, 2004, 5:50 am

I'd like to engineer my child to be the following:
(male - gotta have the son)
My same personality, ESTP
6'1 thick build
Sandy blonde hair
Straight hair
Brown eyes
engineered never to have thigh, ass, ball, chest or back hair.

For some reason I find brown eyes to be more mellow and appealing than blue eyes, I have like hazel / blue eyes and I think they're like too cold looking, which doesn't match my personality.

Keverian FireCry · Post by **Keverian FireCry** » November 12, 2004, 6:01 am

Sounds more like characteristics of your ideal mate...

Rivera Bladestrike · November 12, 2004, 6:05 am

Nah, its more like the ideal male that you'd respect. If my son was a cross eyed little nit wit that shit his pants on the school bus, there would be no respect. I'd respect my son more if he had my personality / intelligence and the looks there (which aren't far off from my own)

Keverian FireCry · Post by **Keverian FireCry** » November 12, 2004, 6:15 am

Aye, I understand.

I've have imagined what my child would look like, which usually takes form as an ideal image of a child, however I would never genetically alter or insure that my child looks a certain way. I can understand taking steps to be sure your child has no harmful genetic deffects, but having total power over aesthetic properties of your child is rediculous.

If I were to do this, I would be haunted by wonder of what my child would have been like if I had just let nature take its course...Gattica comes to mind when I think of how this could impact our culture if it ever became mainstream.

Rivera Bladestrike · November 12, 2004, 6:25 am

Well, i think things like acne could be better. Say goodbye to acne scaring and those couple of years that suck ass for most teenagers.

Xzion · Post by **Xzion** » November 12, 2004, 8:50 am

Ive always liked green eyes better personally, but idealy those pale amber eyes that only some arabic people have are really hot...
either way good for them, hopefully this can lead to further advances in the human race

Rivera Bladestrike · November 12, 2004, 8:55 am

Maybe we can weed out christian conservatives with future scientific discoveries.

Akaran_D · Post by **Akaran_D** » November 12, 2004, 9:07 am

I'd go gung ho about eliminating the genes that cause asthma, arthritis, fibromialgia, and several other things.

Riv: You're one of the better posters here. Do you really feel it neceessary to go for the random 'burn crispies burn' flame?

Lynks · Post by **Lynks** » November 12, 2004, 9:12 am

I wouldn't bother doing it. The only fear I have is when in 200 years are so, when 90% of the population is "perfect", how will the other 10% get treated?

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » November 12, 2004, 9:19 am

I'm surprised the morality watchdogs aren't all over this.

Akaran_D · Post by **Akaran_D** » November 12, 2004, 9:24 am

Anything that has the potential to limit or cure genetic diseases gets my approval. That includes stem cell and organ cloning research. No one should ever, ever have to live their lives in pain.

Rivera Bladestrike · November 12, 2004, 9:27 am

Akaran_D wrote:I'd go gung ho about eliminating the genes that cause asthma, arthritis, fibromialgia, and several other things.

Riv: You're one of the better posters here. Do you really feel it neceessary to go for the random 'burn crispies burn' flame?

Hehe, yeah I just felt like making a blatantly offensive and stupid comment. After all, I need christian conservative around, so I can do one of things I love most! Argue! Born debater here, Mastered it later on...

Burke · Post by **Burke** » November 12, 2004, 10:45 am

Hello Gattaca!

Tenuvil · Post by **Tenuvil** » November 12, 2004, 11:31 am

Burke wrote:Hello Gattaca!

That was the first thing that crossed my mind when I read this thread.

Excellent movie if any of you haven't seen it.

Sionistic · Post by **Sionistic** » November 12, 2004, 12:07 pm

god damn it, beat to it

Seebs · Post by **Seebs** » November 12, 2004, 12:25 pm

I would like my child tarten plaid please.

With pleats.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » November 12, 2004, 1:45 pm

Tenuvil wrote:
Burke wrote:Hello Gattaca!
That was the first thing that crossed my mind when I read this thread.

Excellent movie if any of you haven't seen it.

I third this. Gattaca is a good movie. (not action, it's a brain stimulating sci Fi flick)

Bren · Post by **Bren** » November 12, 2004, 1:59 pm

IFV is a great idea for those who would like to have a baby of their own...But thats just creepy.

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » November 12, 2004, 2:00 pm

I'm all for embryonic surgery/treatment to repair genetic disorders that can occur. However, I don't believe that we know enough about genetic manipulation to start modifying the genetic makeup of kids at conception. It's a ethically, scientificly and morally dangerous path.

Human potential and limitations are in those genes and there are some places that I think we just aren't ready to go.

Tinkin Tankem · Post by **Tinkin Tankem** » November 12, 2004, 2:03 pm

As far as diseases are involved in this. Has anyone ever sat back and thought about the diseases that we've cured in the past? Yes, now they're gone but we are continually faced with more and more difficult diseases. I personally wouldn't be surprised if someday all of these "cures" end up being the death of us all. If only there was something that had the charectoristics of A.I.D.S. but was more easily spread. Let's try and cure them and make the evolve into something else. IMHO all the cures are simply catalysts to the evolution of disease, virus's, and the like.

Personally though, all I want is an Alley Bagget clone, yes.

Tenuvil · Post by **Tenuvil** » November 12, 2004, 3:00 pm

Tinkin Tankem wrote:...I personally wouldn't be surprised if someday all of these "cures" end up being the death of us all.

Interesting that you mention this...there are studies underway that are attempting to link the massive increase in the incidence of autism among American children to vaccinations. However, I doubt that the studies will ever see the light of day. The drug companies have way too much at stake.

Akaran_D · Post by **Akaran_D** » November 12, 2004, 3:11 pm

It's evolution.
Kill them all, the ones that survive adapt. Then you find a way to kill them, and they adapt again. Back and forth. However, if you kill something that isn't transmuted through anything except for genetics, then you stand a strong chance that you will all but eliminate that particular disease entirely.

Spankes · Post by **Spankes** » November 12, 2004, 4:20 pm

No one sees a problem with people genetically engineering their babies? I don't have a moral problem with it per se. I think the problem with it is that too many people are going to be chasing after the blonde haired blue eyed children. All individuality will be removed from people.

Eugenics is bad, bad stuff. Now, I had a sister that had died at a young age because of a genetic disorder. Eugenics could have caught it, saved her or whatever...and I still think it is wrong. The amount of prejudice that can and would come to the surface is, I think, unfathomable. Not to mention the obvious ability for people to create a 'master race'

Bad, bad stuff.

Niffoni · Post by **Niffoni** » November 12, 2004, 4:37 pm

Don't forget to write to your congressman to demand a law restricting IVF to heterosexual couples, the way God intended!

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » November 12, 2004, 4:52 pm

totaly overhype. Only persons with one partner being infertile are potential clients.

What percentage of the population does that represent?

Secondly, it will only be that percentage of that segment that can afford multiple IVF attempts. So middle/upper income people with one infertile person.

SO anyway, big deal if they want to pick an egg with blue eyes or brown eyes. its OK for them to do IVF with an anonymous donor, but it isnt OK to pick and choose characteristics of the donor?

If i was going to use a donor egg, and I had access to health information, cancer risk, intelligence data, etc. I would absolutley use it.

I know a kid whose parents used IVF and they were the donors, but they screened the eggs for a genetic defect that ran in the father's family. They spent hundreds of thousands of dollars doing it, but they have a healthy child. If I had the means, I would do that myself were I faced with the similar situation.

I dont understand how it is "OK" for somebody to have random luck determine their sperm/egg donor, but it is not "OK" for somebody to make a decision whether it is based on medical data or simply aesthetic data.

Tenuvil · Post by **Tenuvil** » November 12, 2004, 5:03 pm

Spankes wrote:No one sees a problem with people genetically engineering their babies? I don't have a moral problem with it per se. I think the problem with it is that too many people are going to be chasing after the blonde haired blue eyed children. All individuality will be removed from people.

Eugenics is bad, bad stuff. Now, I had a sister that had died at a young age because of a genetic disorder. Eugenics could have caught it, saved her or whatever...and I still think it is wrong. The amount of prejudice that can and would come to the surface is, I think, unfathomable. Not to mention the obvious ability for people to create a 'master race'

Bad, bad stuff.

Better living through molecular science!

I want my children to be part of the race of ubermenschen

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » November 12, 2004, 5:26 pm

Personally I hope my sons look exactly like this...

and

I don't think I could have ever even hoped for anymore than what I got

exept possibly one more... but not for a couple of years...

Marb

PS - Please note that I do not normally dress my son in Camo, he was getting ready to go to bed and he like to sleep in his "tree shirt" that one of my friends gave him.

Rekaar. · Post by **Rekaar.** » November 12, 2004, 6:06 pm

Voronwë wrote:totaly overhype. Only persons with one partner being infertile are potential clients.

What percentage of the population does that represent?

Secondly, it will only be that percentage of that segment that can afford multiple IVF attempts. So middle/upper income people with one infertile person.

SO anyway, big deal if they want to pick an egg with blue eyes or brown eyes. its OK for them to do IVF with an anonymous donor, but it isnt OK to pick and choose characteristics of the donor?

If i was going to use a donor egg, and I had access to health information, cancer risk, intelligence data, etc. I would absolutley use it.

I know a kid whose parents used IVF and they were the donors, but they screened the eggs for a genetic defect that ran in the father's family. They spent hundreds of thousands of dollars doing it, but they have a healthy child. If I had the means, I would do that myself were I faced with the similar situation.

I dont understand how it is "OK" for somebody to have random luck determine their sperm/egg donor, but it is not "OK" for somebody to make a decision whether it is based on medical data or simply aesthetic data.

Sliding scale voro, just like every other social issue. It's just a matter of time. Conservatives will gradually weaken in their resolve and eugenics will become more and more accepted. It'll just latch on to the pro-choice movement. This is one of the reasons for the revival of the pro-life movement. How many years off are we? How many people, if it were banned in the US, would fly to Europe for the "service?"

At the same time, I think we've killed our own evolution with such incredible health care. The only way for us to make that next jump is through genetic manipulation. Or are we all that we should be right now?

Lalanae · Post by **Lalanae** » November 12, 2004, 6:45 pm

Rivera Bladestrike wrote: engineered never to have thigh, ass, ball, chest or back hair.

Rivera Bladestrike wrote: Nah, its more like the ideal male that you'd respect. If my son was a cross eyed little nit wit that shit his pants on the school bus, there would be no respect. I'd respect my son more if he had my personality / intelligence and the looks there (which aren't far off from my own)

and him not having ass and ball hair benefits you how?

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » November 12, 2004, 7:00 pm

Rekaar. wrote:
At the same time, I think we've killed our own evolution with such incredible health care. The only way for us to make that next jump is through genetic manipulation. Or are we all that we should be right now?

my personal quasi-"Sci-Fi" take on it is actually the opposite. We are actually probably going to see an increased rate of genetic divergence in the coming centuries. wealthy individuals will be able to increase their genetic fitness in a manner that is simply not possible under natural circumstances (because there is ever decreasing advantage to the population to retain individuals who are too old).

who knows you may even see 'speciation' with the ultra rich taking genetic manipulation into a sort of a fashionable direction in addition to health and practical benefits.

At that point you will see decreased 'value' placed on the lives of Homo sapiens (like ourselves) by governing bodies and so on, perhaps eventual subjugation of our species to indentured servitude if not outright slavery with breeding programs. probably some areas were feral populations live. of course the Ubermenchen will eventually be overthrown and slaughtered like pigs and we will descend into a totally religious dominated society and a full recapitulation of the Dark Ages.

anyway, that's my fun "sci fi" take on it all =D.

what does a "sliding scale" mean though? If IVF is morally acceptable (and I believe that it is), then why is it not morally acceptable to use genetic information to enhance the fitness of the child?

Hey i give my child medicines made by companies who negotiate contracts with countries that gouge persons for pharamaceuticals such that poor persons cannot afford them, simply so that the companies can send doctors in the states on lavish vacations, etc.

The only reason I bring this up is that market forces - and corrupt governments like our own are included in this - will move technologies in a direction. you can either take advantage of it for your own benefit (ie give your kid Children's Tylenol when he/she has the sniffles), or not.

edit: my closing sentence is a total cop-out. i dont really mean that one should choose an immoral path to help their family (stealing is a good example). and i really didnt clearly define my point. so feel free to dismiss it.

Moonwynd · Post by **Moonwynd** » November 12, 2004, 7:42 pm

Lalanae wrote:
Rivera Bladestrike wrote: engineered never to have thigh, ass, ball, chest or back hair.

Rivera Bladestrike wrote: Nah, its more like the ideal male that you'd respect. If my son was a cross eyed little nit wit that shit his pants on the school bus, there would be no respect. I'd respect my son more if he had my personality / intelligence and the looks there (which aren't far off from my own)
and him not having ass and ball hair benefits you how?

Please...allow me to answer that question...

It keeps Teenybloke from having to spit the hairs out constantly....

Seebs · Post by **Seebs** » November 12, 2004, 11:52 pm

I hope my son looks better than those Marbus .. and smells less like cigarettes!!

Rivera Bladestrike · November 13, 2004, 12:09 am

Moonwynd wrote:
Lalanae wrote:
Rivera Bladestrike wrote: engineered never to have thigh, ass, ball, chest or back hair.

Rivera Bladestrike wrote: Nah, its more like the ideal male that you'd respect. If my son was a cross eyed little nit wit that shit his pants on the school bus, there would be no respect. I'd respect my son more if he had my personality / intelligence and the looks there (which aren't far off from my own)
and him not having ass and ball hair benefits you how?
Please...allow me to answer that question...

It keeps Teenybloke from having to spit the hairs out constantly....

Well if you must know, I have to trim or shave this hair, and its a pain the ass, so I'd save him the trouble. I'm looking out for my son here!

Vetiria · Post by **Vetiria** » November 13, 2004, 12:46 am

Rivera Bladestrike wrote:If my son was a cross eyed little nit wit that shit his pants on the school bus

Hey, stop talking about me!

Tenuvil · Post by **Tenuvil** » November 13, 2004, 2:43 am

Rivera Bladestrike wrote:
Moonwynd wrote:
Lalanae wrote:
Rivera Bladestrike wrote: engineered never to have thigh, ass, ball, chest or back hair.

Rivera Bladestrike wrote: Nah, its more like the ideal male that you'd respect. If my son was a cross eyed little nit wit that shit his pants on the school bus, there would be no respect. I'd respect my son more if he had my personality / intelligence and the looks there (which aren't far off from my own)
and him not having ass and ball hair benefits you how?
Please...allow me to answer that question...

It keeps Teenybloke from having to spit the hairs out constantly....
Well if you must know, I have to trim or shave this hair, and its a pain the ass, so I'd save him the trouble. I'm looking out for my son here!

dude, I can see the ball and excess pubes in general, but ass hair?

wtf

Rivera Bladestrike · November 13, 2004, 2:46 am

My chest looks a lot better without chest hair and my ass does as well. My lady friends agree.

Aaeamdar · Post by **Aaeamdar** » November 13, 2004, 7:55 am

I agree. Rivera's ass looks better without hair.

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » November 14, 2004, 2:40 am

I don't smoke around my kids

and I wish you all the luck in the world on getting a cuter kid... but it's not going to happen

Honestly though I'm very excited for you!

Marb

Arsecn · Post by **Arsecn** » November 14, 2004, 8:08 pm

Seeb's kid gonna smell like pie and be a baker, i believe.

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » November 14, 2004, 9:56 pm

I would gladly gene-gineer my child to have 10 fingers and ten toes, low susceptibility to disease and illness, and their health.

Other than that I would want him or her to be a mix of myself and my wife and that would make me happy.-

Rivera Bladestrike · November 14, 2004, 10:22 pm

On the second thought...

I want my child to have six kidneys, four hearts, two stomachs, three livers, 6 lungs, be 6 foot 4, have the strength of forty men, and have a penis capable of a cock push-up.

I'd be very proud of my son, and he'd live forever and bang many hot babes and fend off forty men (the husbands of all the girls he bangs) at will.

Cracc · Post by **Cracc** » November 15, 2004, 12:20 am

What would you name this ~~monstrosity~~ boy Rivera?

Rivera Bladestrike · November 15, 2004, 12:38 am

I will name him Beer.

No one will ever forget his name.

Thess · Post by **Thess** » November 15, 2004, 12:46 am

Cute kids Marbus! It is to bad you are 'making' them think the military is the only way of life!