Interesting Read from a mainstream source

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » November 9, 2004, 2:37 pm

Keith Oberman, MSNBC

While I still think that the overwhelming solidarity of the jesus freaks put this election in Bush's favor, there are some interesting facts that raise serious questions about certain parts of the election. The biggest peculiarity, of course, being the complete disparity of exit polls from the official results. Basically, either the liberal media collectively lied their asses off about the exit polls to alter the election, or widespread vote fraud occured in Bush's favor. Left leaning as I am, I have to say that either is a real possibility.

Thoughts?

Brotha · Post by **Brotha** » November 9, 2004, 2:54 pm

Read about that earlier, got linked to this blogger's response.

http://yalefreepress.blogspot.com/2004/ ... -foil.html

Keith Obermann -- Where's Your Tin Foil Hat?
On today's show, MSNBC's Keith Olbermann promulgated the myth that somehow results in Florida are tainted because certain counties that have more than 2-to-1 Democrat-to-Republican registrations overwhelmingly voted for Bush. Counties he cited on tonight's show were: Baker, Lafayette, Liberty, and some others. He repeats this on his blog, but with less detail here (the transcript of the show is not yet available. Will post as soon as it will be):

"... huge margins for Bush in Florida counties in which registered Democrats outnumber registered Republicans 2-1, places where the optical scanning of precinct totals seems to have turned results from perfect matches for the pro-Kerry exit poll data, to Bush sweeps."

So, I decided to go to the Florida Secretary of State's office webpage and look at the results for Lafayette, Baker, and Liberty, the three counties whose names I could catch, and see how they voted in 2000 and in 1996. Well, quite a fascinating result:

Election of 2000
Baker voted 5610-2392 for Bush against Gore.
Lafayette voted 1670-789 for Bush against Gore.
Liberty voted 1317-1017 for Bush against Gore.

Election of 1996
Baker voted 3684-2273 for Dole against Clinton
Lafayette voted 1126-899 for Dole against Clinton
Liberty voted 913-868 for Dole against Clinton

He even made a PDF regarding counties that are overwhelmingly democratic, but have voted for Republican presidents...nothing out of the ordinary in the 04 race.

http://homepages.nyu.edu/~yv226/FloridaAnalysis.pdf

Lohrno · Post by **Lohrno** » November 9, 2004, 3:00 pm

It was pretty interesting that the electoral-vote site was pretty much totally accurate except for Florida and Ohio...

-=Lohrno

eOmniz · Post by **eOmniz** » November 9, 2004, 3:00 pm

I believe in option c - Exit polls only polled like 100k people, and people chose to take the polls or to not take the polls, and for whatever reason the people who chose to take the polls were slanted for Kerry.

Don't get me wrong, I would love for Kerry to have won, but I think drawing any kind of conclusion besides polls are only as accurate as you want them to be from this is pointless.

Niffoni · Post by **Niffoni** » November 9, 2004, 3:07 pm

While there's no doubt in my mind that individual or small groups of psychopaths tried to fuck with things in one way or another, I suspect that the margin for error would tell us that it didn't make the difference between a win or lose for either candidate.

Seebs · Post by **Seebs** » November 9, 2004, 3:13 pm

Republicans are generally working during the tme these polls wee taken. The pollsters were more than likely under-employed chuds with an agenda as well.

Or, westole the election with Haliburton money. Either way, I'm gald to have more Viagra commericlas on the TV now instead of the commercial with Bush holding hands and skipping with the Suadi Poohbah.

Wulfran · Post by **Wulfran** » November 9, 2004, 3:21 pm

One thing about the exit polls I saw on CNN, is they thought they may have been skewed because more women responded than men. The thought that was most women are generally more polite and forthcoming and will respond to the exit pollsters as opposed to men, who are more likely to ignore them. And as women tend to lean more Democrat...

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » November 9, 2004, 4:13 pm

Republicans were less brainwashed than the average democrat that was probably more than willing to voice their opinion after being duped by Michael Moore propaganda.

Please please please keep that dolt around for 2008. The Michael Moore/Hillary 2008 campaign circus should be great although this time you'll see an endless stream of negative media much worse than Kerry, who was pretty boring, from republicans who can't stomach Hillary.

As things stand, McCain or whoever the republican candidate may be short of Alan Keys, will sleepwalk their way into the White House in 2008. My early prediction is that democrats will be trying to reinvent themselves which will give an independant even more chance to cut into their votes.

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » November 9, 2004, 4:38 pm

The exit polls can be off, and obviously have a margin of error. Thing is, they have never been even remotely this far off. Having the polls be accurate about the senate races while simultaneously being wildly off about the presidential race is curious. Having all the irregularities occur in scattered counties whos only common factor was the use of Deibold machines is, at the very least, worthy of examination. That said, it is still nearly as likely that the polls were deliberately misrepresented (and Fox reported Bush winning, practically out of the gate on the other side of the fence).

As for 2008, the neocon crispy elite will never allow McCain to be nominated and I doubt he will even try after the shit slinging he endured in 2000. The person that the "base" will pick will be Jeb Bush and given the atmosphere of fear and hate currently in place, its likely he will win.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » November 9, 2004, 4:42 pm

Jice Virago wrote:
As for 2008, the neocon crispy elite will never allow McCain to be nominated and I doubt he will even try after the shit slinging he endured in 2000. The person that the "base" will pick will be Jeb Bush and given the atmosphere of fear and hate currently in place, its likely he will win.

Jeb Bush has said countless times that he's not running in 2008. You'll see mostly that Jeb won't run int 2008 although there's plenty of pressure for him to:

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=n ... +bush+2008

Lohrno · Post by **Lohrno** » November 9, 2004, 4:46 pm

This is all on a shaky assumption: That we're still around in 2008.

-=Lohrno

Hesten · Post by **Hesten** » November 9, 2004, 5:14 pm

I think that there was cheating with the deibold machines, in favor of Bush.

Unfortunately i also think that it dont matter, Bush would have won anyway. Maybe not by much, but he would have won.

I just pray that the US get smarter in 2008 and A, get a president, not a dumb puppet, and B, figure out how to make a election system thats more save than the average military coup controlled banana republics

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » November 9, 2004, 6:11 pm

how did the "liberal media" lie about the exit polls during the process. I know CNN didnt talk about them until Ohio was called at around 12:30pm on November 3rd.

i thought other networks were doing the same, since they were all using a combined pool.

the exit poll stuff was leaked to places like Drudge and internet rumor sites, and probably also discussed on conservative talk radio - most likely by operatives in the campaigns.

i've heard a few theories on why the exit polls were skewed early in the day.

Possible that women tend to vote more in the early part of the day and they skew Democrat. Also possible that some very conservative Republicans were reticent to discuss their vote with the pollsters.

Seebs · Post by **Seebs** » November 9, 2004, 6:38 pm

I sense a vast Moderate Conspiracy.

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » November 10, 2004, 4:06 am

Voronwe:

The right wingers made the accusation that left leaning elements within the media were misreporting the exit polls in some fashion in order to affect voting. My assertion is that either that happened, or there was voter fraud. In either case, heads should roll.

ps- I found CNN to be the most nuetral of all election coverage on Nov2. Per usual, MSNBC was just to the right of Hunter S Thompson and Fox was just to the left of Hitler, but no suprise there.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » November 10, 2004, 12:11 pm

I heard Chris Mathews told Joe Scarborough to shutup on the air. Haha i wish i watched that train wreck.

since most of you probably have no idea who this clown is:
Joe Scarborough anchors the 10pm show on MSNBC called "Scarborough Country". he's a pretty far right leaning guy who doesn't even pretend to be even handed.

I think he said Bush won the first debate if that gives you any idea of his credibility.

Seebs · Post by **Seebs** » November 10, 2004, 2:46 pm

I understand Joe Scarborough is trying to add edge and spic to his declining show.

Look forward to watching Scarbourough Cunt during sweeps week.