Stop whining already!

Lohrno · Post by **Lohrno** » November 3, 2004, 2:38 pm

Tyek wrote:Bush is a horrible president, Kerry was a terrible alternative and I have to laugh that so many people think the world is going to end. We have had a bad president many times and we survived and we should survive this one.

In 2008 we will probably have 2 more shitty choices, and we will survive. Is Bush bad, yes but he is not the antichrist.

My reasoning for thinking a nuclear armageddon is possible is this. Feel free to call me partisan or whatever, but I am trying to look at things objectively. Reagan had diplomatic skills. We were in the cold war, and for all the bad things that he did, he did have diplomatic skills, and protected us from being nuked by the USSR. Right?

Fast forward to today: Iran and North Korea both have Nuclear weapons. Both of their governments do not like the US much, and their leaders are not very sensible. (Maybe more sensible than ours ATM, but still not as sensible as the USSRs was at that time.

Bush has consistently displayed a deficiency of diplomacy. If you want examples, just look at the Iraq war. He ignored the UN, didn't give Iraq the chance to try for diplomatic solutions. (why should he, he wanted to attack them.) He has alienated our allies pretty well.

So to recap: Iran and NK have nukes, their leadership is somewhat rabid, and our president has no diplomatic skills. Nuclear threats are the time when you need diplomacy the most and we don't have it. It's not that hard to put two and two together. By the way, if there were an engagement with NK, who would be their closest ally? Hint: They helped them in the Korean war. Oh yeah, China. If we piss off China, we are severely fucked. They definitely have ICBMs. You don't even need one to deliver a nuclear payload across the world, just a fast/stealthy modern jet.

I really hope this doesn't happen.

-=Lohrno

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » November 3, 2004, 2:50 pm

The bitching about Florida is funny because the networks calling the state for Gore before the polls closed in the Pan Handle time zone probably cost Bush quite a few votes in that heavily republican part of the state.

CNN did a good job this time holding off until the polls closed.

Cracc · Post by **Cracc** » November 3, 2004, 2:51 pm

To all the people who voted for bush, thanks for fucking the world over for another 4 years.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » November 3, 2004, 2:52 pm

OMG WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!11

Cracc · Post by **Cracc** » November 3, 2004, 2:54 pm

Do you have an inkling of an idea why Bush is hated almost EVERYWHERE else other then in the united states? Could it be his dashing charm or his blazing intellect?

Lohrno · Post by **Lohrno** » November 3, 2004, 2:54 pm

To anyone who read my post, please make a rebuttal. Tell me how this won't happen. I really want to believe it's not possible...

-=Lohrno

Cracc · Post by **Cracc** » November 3, 2004, 2:56 pm

Wouldnt suprise me if it did, im just happy we are located very very far from both countries.. although im sure the acid rains after a full nuclear bombardment would reach us even here.

Brotha · Post by **Brotha** » November 3, 2004, 2:58 pm

All the exit polls had Kerry up. So does that mean people actually voted for Kerry, before they voted against him?

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » November 3, 2004, 2:59 pm

Cracc wrote:Wouldnt suprise me if it did, im just happy we are located very very far from both countries.. although im sure the acid rains after a full nuclear bombardment would reach us even here.

Where are you Ccrac? Australia?

Cracc · Post by **Cracc** » November 3, 2004, 2:59 pm

Sweden

Ceredwin · Post by **Ceredwin** » November 3, 2004, 3:03 pm

Lohrno wrote:
Tyek wrote: Reagan had diplomatic skills. We were in the cold war, and for all the bad things that he did, he did have diplomatic skills, and protected us from being nuked by the USSR. Right? =Lohrno

It was not Reagan's diplomatic skills that won the cold war, it was outspending the Soviet Union in those big bad weapons, while backing anti-communists global wide.

Rivera Bladestrike · Post by **Rivera Bladestrike** » November 3, 2004, 3:15 pm

Brotha, you really think that none of those things that Kerry said happend in Vietnam? Are you fucking kidding me, I guarentee a ton of war crimes occurred in Vietnam. Half the time people fired at civilians or at anything that moved. And yeah he protested the war, when you go out there and realize how futile being there was you'd probably be fucking pissed off too that you were there risking your ass for nothing.

Instead you voted for a guy who dodged the draft and one of the worst presidents of all time.

This is a clear election of republican propaganda reaching out to the ignorant fucks (like brotha) who don't know shit about politics or the world and convincing them to vote Bush.

Lohrno · Post by **Lohrno** » November 3, 2004, 3:17 pm

Ceredwin wrote: It was not Reagan's diplomatic skills that won the cold war, it was outspending the Soviet Union in those big bad weapons, while backing anti-communists global wide.

I'm not talking about winning the cold war, I'm talking about preventing our asses from getting nuked. There are many theories as to how the cold war was won, but all in all it was probably a combination of all of them. Reagan did calm them down a few times when it came close to an engagement.

-=Lohrno

Lohrno · Post by **Lohrno** » November 3, 2004, 3:19 pm

Rivera Bladestrike wrote:Brotha, you really think that none of those things that Kerry said happend in Vietnam? Are you fucking kidding me, I guarentee a ton of war crimes occurred in Vietnam. Half the time people fired at civilians or at anything that moved. And yeah he protested the war, when you go out there and realize how futile being there was you'd probably be fucking pissed off too that you were there risking your ass for nothing.

It's documented on video. I remember seeing soldiers torching villages.

-=Lohrno

Post by **Sylvus** » November 3, 2004, 3:28 pm

Brotha wrote:I wonder if Kerry can finally tell us what his super secret plan for Iraq is now that the election is over.

Or maybe Bush will finally be able to tell us his super secret plan!

Dexail · Post by **Dexail** » November 3, 2004, 3:29 pm

I've been reading the plethora of posts concerning the election and I've been able to surmise that:

1) 58,000,000 Americans are dumb rednecks
2) Canada's population is going to expand soon
3) The anti-christ was re-elected
4) Kim Jong Il is more stable than Bush
4) You should never, ever make political rhymes that match "Who let the dogs out"
6) We're all going to die unless we can get Bruce Willis and Ben into space soon.

Rivera Bladestrike · Post by **Rivera Bladestrike** » November 3, 2004, 3:31 pm

You make good points Dexail.

Dexail for Pres 2008!

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » November 3, 2004, 3:38 pm

lol dex!

I do however, mourn for Canada...

Rekaar. · Post by **Rekaar.** » November 3, 2004, 6:07 pm

Brotha wrote:All the exit polls had Kerry up. So does that mean people actually voted for Kerry, before they voted against him?

clever!

Markulas · Post by **Markulas** » November 3, 2004, 6:16 pm

nuclear war coming soon.

Aruman · Post by **Aruman** » November 3, 2004, 7:06 pm

Lohrno wrote: Bush has consistently displayed a deficiency of diplomacy. If you want examples, just look at the Iraq war. He ignored the UN, didn't give Iraq the chance to try for diplomatic solutions. (why should he, he wanted to attack them.) He has alienated our allies pretty well.

Ummm... So, 10+ years of UN sanctions did nothing except make Saddam more wealthy, not to mention a few UN and French officials.

When 10+ years of sanctions does nothing, and failure to comply not being enforced by the UN, why would anyone think further Diplomatic efforts would do any good?

Bush (United States) didn't ignore the UN, Saddam did.

EDIT: Changed thing to think, and added a few words to make a sentence make sense

Post by **Sylvus** » November 3, 2004, 7:10 pm

Don't forget that it also made him a threat to virtually no one in the world!

Xzion · Post by **Xzion** » November 3, 2004, 8:05 pm

Brotha wrote:Yep 51 percent of our country is made up of uninformed rednecks.

Actually only 60 something % of our country voted, which would mean that say 33ish percent of our country is made up of uninformed rednecks...but realisticly

65ish% of our country is made up of either rednecks or religious fanatics (or a combination of both!...like dubyah)

about the uninformed part..thats a good 85%... if i want to be very generous...that goes for both kerry and bush supporters (with a good edge towards bush supporters

)
a 7 year old schoolboy from france is more likely to be well informed about american history then most highschool graduates

Rekaar. · Post by **Rekaar.** » November 3, 2004, 8:06 pm

You can't seriously believe the guy wasn't a threat still, can you? He spent years stockpiling weapons and distributing them to anti-US allies. Paid bounties to the families of suicide bombers. Filled mass graves with thousands of people. Publicly endorsed the 9/11 WTC attacks. He bought off the French, Germans, etc. On and on.

Everyone in the free world knew the guy was a danger.

The shitstorm created by the election (I hope) will die down and maybe the simple truth - that this is the focal point of the war on terror - will finally begin to be accepted by folks like yourself once more time passes.

Xzion · Post by **Xzion** » November 3, 2004, 8:19 pm

Rekaar. wrote:You can't seriously believe the guy wasn't a threat still, can you? He spent years stockpiling weapons and distributing them to anti-US allies. Paid bounties to the families of suicide bombers. Filled mass graves with thousands of people. Publicly endorsed the 9/11 WTC attacks. He bought off the French, Germans, etc. On and on.

Everyone in the free world knew the guy was a danger.

The shitstorm created by the election (I hope) will die down and maybe the simple truth - that this is the focal point of the war on terror - will finally begin to be accepted by folks like yourself once more time passes.

Notice that after 9/11 our country, and the WORLD was more unified then it has been...hell, then ever has been in modern history. it really took A LOT of effort to polarize the nation, and the world to the disgusting level that its at now.

Lohrno · Post by **Lohrno** » November 3, 2004, 8:27 pm

Aruman wrote: Ummm... So, 10+ years of UN sanctions did nothing except make Saddam more wealthy, not to mention a few UN and French officials.

When 10+ years of sanctions does nothing, and failure to comply not being enforced by the UN, why would anyone think further Diplomatic efforts would do any good?

Bush (United States) didn't ignore the UN, Saddam did.

After the first war, the sanctions had definitely crippled his country. People were starving. His people were growing more unhappy. He was even cooperating at the end. But Bush decided that it was the time to attack against the wishes of the UN, and against a path that could have been taken without war. Even if you think we did all we could with Iraq, we still have alienated our allies. We could have smoothed that over a lot more, but Bush sucks at diplomacy, so we didn't. We'd rather eat our 'Freedom Fries.'

-=Lohrno.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » November 3, 2004, 8:39 pm

Rekaar. wrote:You can't seriously believe the guy wasn't a threat still, can you? He spent years stockpiling weapons and distributing them to anti-US allies. Paid bounties to the families of suicide bombers. Filled mass graves with thousands of people. Publicly endorsed the 9/11 WTC attacks. He bought off the French, Germans, etc. On and on.

Everyone in the free world knew the guy was a danger.

You're kidding right? Did you even happen to notice that most of the free world was against the Iraqi war? Or did that not register in your little fantasy land?

Markulas · Post by **Markulas** » November 3, 2004, 9:44 pm

Enough of the bitching of the UN. Instead of bitching about the problem, why don't we try to fix it? It's like making fun of a losing home team, and then you do nothing to make it better. The structure of the UN is not broken it is only the people, why don't you fix it?

Badabidi · Post by **Badabidi** » November 3, 2004, 11:17 pm

Xzion wrote: a 7 year old schoolboy from france is more likely to be well informed about american history then most highschool graduates

Maybe stacked against you this would be a true statement

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » November 4, 2004, 12:10 am

Badabidi wrote:
Xzion wrote: a 7 year old schoolboy from france is more likely to be well informed about american history then most highschool graduates
Maybe stacked against you this would be a true statement

Well I knew more about US history and had seen more of the US when I first moved over than anyone in my classes.. something I found quite scary to be honest.

Rivera Bladestrike · Post by **Rivera Bladestrike** » November 4, 2004, 2:13 am

Most people I know don't know shit about politics. I find that because of reading this board my political awareness is up like 400%. I thank VV for it

Nick · Post by **Nick** » November 4, 2004, 8:30 am

Wtf can you even say about this joke.

How about.......enjoy your incoming deserved terrorist attacks?

Shaerra · Post by **Shaerra** » November 4, 2004, 11:35 am

Lynks wrote:I just don't want to hear the word "hindsight" from anyone that voted Bush in the next 4 years. You bitched about "hindsight" for a few years now, and yet, you seem to have wanted to do it all over again.

Who?

Who voted for Bush in 2000 and then bitched about him in 2004?

Let me see the list of dumbfucks! I've got something to fucking say to them...

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » November 4, 2004, 11:50 am

Kelshara wrote:
Rekaar. wrote:You can't seriously believe the guy wasn't a threat still, can you? He spent years stockpiling weapons and distributing them to anti-US allies. Paid bounties to the families of suicide bombers. Filled mass graves with thousands of people. Publicly endorsed the 9/11 WTC attacks. He bought off the French, Germans, etc. On and on.

Everyone in the free world knew the guy was a danger.
You're kidding right? Did you even happen to notice that most of the free world was against the Iraqi war? Or did that not register in your little fantasy land?

48 Countries? support the war in Iraq which includes most of Europe oh except France and Germany but we all now the reason for that.$$$$$$$

Post by **Sylvus** » November 4, 2004, 2:23 pm

Rekaar. wrote:You can't seriously believe the guy wasn't a threat still, can you? He spent years stockpiling weapons and distributing them to anti-US allies. Paid bounties to the families of suicide bombers. Filled mass graves with thousands of people. Publicly endorsed the 9/11 WTC attacks. He bought off the French, Germans, etc. On and on.

Everyone in the free world knew the guy was a danger.

The shitstorm created by the election (I hope) will die down and maybe the simple truth - that this is the focal point of the war on terror - will finally begin to be accepted by folks like yourself once more time passes.

I seriously believe that Saddam was no threat to the United States, and very little threat to his neighboring countries at the time of our invasion. Most of the things that you say in the above quote were true at one time, but the 10+ years of sanctions and the weapons inspections left him pretty impotent by the time we invaded.

I will agree that an allied democratic state with Iraq's location would be beneficial to long-term US interests. I do not agree that this war will create that democracy, nor do I even know that the Iraqi people want the brand of "freedom" that we are imparting on them. Couple that with the PR nightmare that this war has been on a global scale and I believe that the Iraq war has done the exact opposite of what we were told it would do - make all of us safer.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » November 4, 2004, 8:53 pm

48 Countries? support the war in Iraq which includes most of Europe oh except France and Germany but we all now the reason for that.$$$$$$$

Most of Europe? Horseshit. The majority of the countries on that list are third-world countries you bought the verbal support from (because they can't do jack shit else) with a couple of hand-outs. Some Eastern Europe (oh wait, New Europe) countries also verbally support it and I'd love to see the deals made for that.

Several western Europe countries are in Iraq now specifically rebuilding and cleaning up the mess you dumb-fucks created.

Avestan · Post by **Avestan** » November 5, 2004, 4:23 pm

Cracc wrote:Do you have an inkling of an idea why Bush is hated almost EVERYWHERE else other then in the united states? Could it be his dashing charm or his blazing intellect?

I am constantly amazed by how much the world thinks it understands us and truly has no clue. Foreigners claim we have no culture when in reality, they just do not understand it. . .at all.

Shaerra · Post by **Shaerra** » November 5, 2004, 4:47 pm

Kelshara wrote:
48 Countries? support the war in Iraq which includes most of Europe oh except France and Germany but we all now the reason for that.$$$$$$$
Most of Europe? Horseshit. The majority of the countries on that list are third-world countries you bought the verbal support from (because they can't do jack shit else) with a couple of hand-outs. Some Eastern Europe (oh wait, New Europe) countries also verbally support it and I'd love to see the deals made for that.

Several western Europe countries are in Iraq now specifically rebuilding and cleaning up the mess you dumb-fucks created.

I noticed that you keep using the term "verbal support" as if making some huge revelation. Why don't you give us a list of countries that did anything more than VERBALLY oppose the war?

Rekaar. · Post by **Rekaar.** » November 5, 2004, 5:25 pm

I'll agree with you sylvus, the threat was overstated. We all know that now. As to the Iraqis and their acceptance of freedom...you either believe all men are created equal or you don't. Though I think you're either just playing devil's advocate or being difficult =p

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » November 5, 2004, 9:29 pm

Foreigners claim we have no culture when in reality, they just do not understand it. . .at all.

Probably because you don't heh.

I noticed that you keep using the term "verbal support" as if making some huge revelation. Why don't you give us a list of countries that did anything more than VERBALLY oppose the war?

Simple: Any country that has previously supported anything the US has done but went against them on the Iraqi war. The list is quite long. And there is a huge difference from Bush reading a list of the Great Coalition that mostly consists of backwater countries he bought the support from. Even you should understand that.