RIP Ken Caminiti

Waran · Post by **Waran** » October 11, 2004, 1:53 am

ESPNEWS reporting former Astro Ken Caminiti died, age 41 of a heart attack.

noel · Post by **noel** » October 11, 2004, 1:56 am

Just guessing, but I think it's probably the same type of heart attack that Rick James died from. That's pretty damn sad.

Waran · Post by **Waran** » October 11, 2004, 2:01 am

Link for ya

http://msn.foxsports.com/story/3068808

*nods at Noel*

masteen · Post by **masteen** » October 11, 2004, 1:26 pm

Cocaine attack?

Homercles · Post by **Homercles** » October 11, 2004, 2:07 pm

He was a juicer. Not much of a suprise he died prematurely

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » October 11, 2004, 2:14 pm

His death isn't a big deal except maybe to notate it as another addict death for research purposes into exploring possible therapy for those type that can't stop pumping their bodies with roids and other drugs.

His death is on the same level of significance as when Darrel Strawberry kicks the bucket...if he hasn't already.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » October 11, 2004, 3:44 pm

His death is on the same level of significance as when Darrel Strawberry kicks the bucket...if he hasn't already.

Yeah, far more than yours you fucking asshole.

Jesus Christ. I can't believe that I click on this thread to find you rating peoples deaths. Wait, yes I can.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » October 11, 2004, 3:56 pm

Sueven wrote:
His death is on the same level of significance as when Darrel Strawberry kicks the bucket...if he hasn't already.
Yeah, far more than yours you fucking asshole.

Jesus Christ. I can't believe that I click on this thread to find you rating peoples deaths. Wait, yes I can.

Sorry man. I just don't care as much about a druggie dying than someone that worked a little harder with the body they had...an excellent example being Christopher Reeve.

I didn't see anyone rating deaths here just but I'd give his a 2/10 on the give a shit scale! Why don't you go head over to the death pool thread and rant some.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » October 11, 2004, 4:19 pm

I would rather not derail this into flames. I will say that:

1. You posting some snide, not-really-funny joke on a thread about someone dying prematurely is exactly what I would expect out of you.

Winnow wrote:Sorry man. I just don't care as much about a druggie dying than someone that worked a little harder with the body they had...an excellent example being Christopher Reeve.

2. You have absolutely no idea what it means to "work hard with the body you have." This man was a professional athlete. You're a computer nerd with too much time on your hands.

That's all.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » October 11, 2004, 5:01 pm

Sueven wrote:I would rather not derail this into flames. I will say that:

1. You posting some snide, not-really-funny joke on a thread about someone dying prematurely is exactly what I would expect out of you.

Winnow wrote:Sorry man. I just don't care as much about a druggie dying than someone that worked a little harder with the body they had...an excellent example being Christopher Reeve.
2. You have absolutely no idea what it means to "work hard with the body you have." This man was a professional athlete. You're a computer nerd with too much time on your hands.

That's all.

An athelete that pumped his body full of steroids with known unhealthy side effects and then over did it in the drug scene afterwards. I'm real impressed with the way he worked his body.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » October 11, 2004, 5:05 pm

If you can honestly tell me that you've ever accomplished a single physical feat as challenging as hitting one single home run in the major leagues, I'll shut up.

noel · Post by **noel** » October 11, 2004, 5:15 pm

You can pump your body full of whatever the fuck you want, but that won't allow you to get up and hit two major league homeruns after two bags of IV fluid and a Snickers bar. Steroids will make you stronger, but they don't do shit for your drive and determination.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » October 11, 2004, 5:18 pm

Sueven wrote:If you can honestly tell me that you've ever accomplished a single physical feat as challenging as hitting one single home run in the major leagues, I'll shut up.

Are you kidding me? Hitting a home run in the major leagues shouldn't bring awe to anyone.

What's more important, The health of your body and mind or being able to hit a ball over a fence a few feet more and ruining your body?

I enjoy watching athletes perform. I don't hold them in any higher esteem than a whiz computer kid that never sees the sun though. You need to get your priorities in order. We pay athletes millions for entertainment. My top 100 most impressive people list would contain 99 percent scientists.

I never played anything above high school sports. People do have other desires than sports. I was a triple letterman and was on the all star team if that helps anything. I'm more proud of what I was able to hack on the C-64 back then though. Other than that. Who gives a shit if I can hit a ball out in the majors? I would't expect anyone to be impressed if I had.

Hand/eye coordination? Fucking bowlers have that. Maybe if the bowlers shot horse urine in their veins they could hit home runs too! I'm sure Barry Bonds would be a good player even if his head didn't make him look like a bobblehead doll these days. Mark Mcguire is a very thin man now that he's off the juice but at least he was smart enough to stop taking shit.

Sorry if I'm not impressed with Caminiti.

noel · Post by **noel** » October 11, 2004, 5:27 pm

I don't think the issue is so much that you need to be impressed by Caminiti or by his performances. I think it's more that it's generally accepted that it's in good taste not say anything if you don't have something nice to say about someone who's just passed away... for whatever reason.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » October 11, 2004, 5:36 pm

noel's on the right track.

What I said was a specific response to this statement:

I just don't care as much about a druggie dying than someone that worked a little harder with the body they had

You said this. I rightly pointed out that, drug habit or no, Ken Caminiti worked harder with his body than you can even comprehend.

Nothing in that mass of bullshit you wrote has anything to do with this point.

You jumped on this thread because you thought you had found another place to spread your wit and fuel your ego. I didn't call you out because I love Ken Caminiti, I called you out because you're a dick.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » October 11, 2004, 5:43 pm

I'm not impressed with juicers. I don't dislike him and didn't say anything about liking or hating the guy.

I'll acknowledge Aranuil's comment about not saying anything if you don't have anything good to say and I blame Homercles for starting that on this thread!

Sueven is the one with the personal attacks about physical fittness. He keeps wanting to relate my body and what I've done with a baseball player. He's making wild assumptions much like Karae did about me never going outside of the United States on another thread.

He is the "dick" to use the same term he did.

Homercles · Post by **Homercles** » October 11, 2004, 6:51 pm

I accept all responsibility for the direction in which this thread has turned.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » October 11, 2004, 7:56 pm

That's ridiculous, I was the one who started flaming, it's my fault.

Winnow, you clearly don't get my point. I don't give a fuck about your physical fitness or your body. If you can honestly tell me that you've ever accomplished anything, in any forum, which measures up to Ken Caminiti's accomplishments, I'll still shut up.

Keep in mind that Ken Caminiti chose a profession (baseball) which is pursued extensively in North America, South America, and Japan, a significant portion of the world. Despite the significant handicap of being an alcoholic, he managed to achieve the pinnacle of success in his chosen profession. He was named MVP, he led his team to a division title, and he competed at the highest level for the highest prize. His career was somewhat tarnished by steroid and drug issues, and he will not be enshrined in the hall of fame, although he will be remembered as an exceptional player.

Something that would be an appropriate parallel would be:

Laurence Tribe chose a profession (law) that is practiced all across the world. Law in the sense that we understand it is largely participated in by Western pseudo-democracies, a significant portion of the world. Tribe became one of the most important scholars in his field, earning a professorship at Harvard University. He has practiced his profession on it's highest level, arguing several cases before the Supreme Court. However, he has also had setbacks: Recently, Tribe admitted to plagiarizing parts of one of his scholarly writings. He will probably not be made a Supreme Court Justice, but he will be remembered as an outstanding lawyer and scholar.

However, I'm pretty damn sure that you've never achieved anything like that either.

Homercles made a simple statement regarding causation.

You jumped into the thread, made offensive and disparaging comments about Caminiti personally and groups that he belongs to generally, and then followed that up with the staggeringly dumb statement that he didn't "work hard with the body he had."

You can keep ignoring what I'm writing all you want. You can claim that I'm preoccupied with your physical fitness or physical achievements. It's not true. I just think you're a dick.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » October 11, 2004, 8:49 pm

You are the one that continues to compare accomplishments of Ken Caminiti to myself as if that matters in the discussion. While I appreciate your strategy of trying to drag me into a who's better flame battle, I fail to see how anything I've done that might be considered extraordinary effects how I feel about Ken Caminiti.

ANY talent can be admired...Ping Pong, Chess, Baseball or even Belly Flopping in a pool. If you're one of the best in your sport, that's great. It doesn't have an impact on how I feel about someone's death though. Being good in a sport itself is only one factor in making someone worthy of admiration. In the case of Caminitil I'm indifferent. He happened to ruin himself by pumping roids, coke, booze, etc into himself which doesn't mean I hate him but it takes him off my give a shit list.

To turn the tables...Why should I care what you think? Have you done anything like Ken Caminiti? You're opinion is wortheless if not. You must automatically adore him no matter what he's done because he can hit a ball with a bat. Raped 40 women? Doesn't matter, he was MVP bitch! You going to mourn OJ when he kicks the bucket? Have at it. I'll pass. In fact, OJ is better than Ken as he didn't take chemicals to enhance his play. You should be chasing him down for autographs. Your logic is whack.

I don't think you're a dick though. You're just a spirited college kid searching for your identity!

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » October 11, 2004, 9:09 pm

You continue to ignore my point. I clearly do not expect you to have exceeded his accomplishments. I have not done so myself.

This is the simplest way I can possibly put this.

You made a post that I felt was obnoxious and worthless.

I responded by calling you a dick. I did this because you irritated me.

The remainder of my posts have dealt with things that make you a dick. I'm not trying to prove any sort of argument here.

I don't think you're a dick though. You're just a spirited college kid searching for your identity!

I disagree. I am a dick. You can fuck off with the superiority horseshit until you figure out how to understand what I write.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » October 11, 2004, 9:23 pm

Sueven wrote:
I disagree. I am a dick. You can fuck off with the superiority horseshit until you figure out how to understand what I write.

You have to earn the right to be called a dick. You're a dick in training.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » October 11, 2004, 10:59 pm

Holy shit, I should post while sober less often. I am a dick.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » October 11, 2004, 11:36 pm

Wow, talk about classless.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » October 12, 2004, 9:38 am

Sueven wrote:Despite the significant handicap of being an alcoholic, he managed to achieve the pinnacle of success in his chosen profession. He was named MVP, he led his team to a division title, and he competed at the highest level for the highest prize

Hold up there a second. I don't want to throw some disrespect at the guy who just died, but lets not go overboard. Mickey Mantle was an alchohlic. Ty Cobb was an achoholic. Babe Ruth was an alchoholic. They did ok and didn't have to resort to steroids and getting IV's to play. I especially don't want to hear of alchoholism as being a handicap. You have a choice to drink or not. He didn't have Gherigs disease. He chose to pollute his body and he KNEW what it would do. I can feel bad for a guy like Gherig who had no control....or any of the guys who had a disease that ended their lives or careers early...but this fucker ruined his own career and life because he was a dumbass.

This won't be the last one we hear about....I believe it is just starting.

xZiBiT · Post by **xZiBiT** » October 12, 2004, 11:29 am

I have no doubt Caminiti was a great person and wonderful teammate but when a star player in any sport comes out and admits they used steroids during any part of their career, especially during a season in which they won the MVP of the league, they lose all credibility as a professional athlete because they cheated to win and/or achieve/maintain peak performance.

But no doubt, a terrible waste of a life to drugs and alcohol.