Teh warrior breaks his leg

masteen · Post by **masteen** » September 21, 2004, 11:45 am

Welcome to the NFL, you punk ass bitch. I'm really choked up that this dick who didn't need to show up to training camp broke his fucking leg. Enjoy not making 5 million in easy bonuses that your asslicking agents extorted from the Browns.

Trek · Post by **Trek** » September 21, 2004, 12:48 pm

As much as I dislike him, this does make a good case for players who hold out and want lots of cash right now. You never know when you wont be playing anymore.

xZiBiT · Post by **xZiBiT** » September 21, 2004, 1:24 pm

Does anyone notice the link between the Ponson's and there flimsy clients.

Last year (and this) Charles Rogers
This year, Kellen Winslow

Can't say I'm sad about Winslow going down but Rogers definately hurts.

Thank goodness the Lion's passed Winslow to the Browns and got R.O.Y. Williams and Kevin Jones. *Crosses Fingers*

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » September 21, 2004, 1:35 pm

Roy looks to be the real deal. I felt like a criminal stealing him in the 10th round.

Post by **Xouqoa** » September 21, 2004, 2:52 pm

I couldn't help but ell oh ell irl when I read about Winslow.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » September 21, 2004, 4:01 pm

Trek wrote:As much as I dislike him, this does make a good case for players who hold out and want lots of cash right now. You never know when you wont be playing anymore.

Yes, encouraging other rookies to try to get money for doing nothing is a sure way to make the NFL better. Just ask the NBA.

Trek · Post by **Trek** » September 21, 2004, 4:09 pm

masteen wrote:
Trek wrote:As much as I dislike him, this does make a good case for players who hold out and want lots of cash right now. You never know when you wont be playing anymore.
Yes, encouraging other rookies to try to get money for doing nothing is a sure way to make the NFL better. Just ask the NBA.

How many top payed rookies did nothing in college? I honestly dont know. But I thought the reason they are drafted high is because of expectations based on college or minor league service. Its not like the Browns were forced to pay him that I am aware of. He had a bad rep before he was picked, if you gamble there is a good chance you will lose

xZiBiT · Post by **xZiBiT** » September 21, 2004, 5:26 pm

I just pray that neither the NBA or NFL turn into the NHL.

I wonder if there will be a NHL2006 or if i will have to by a combo of russian league hockey, czech league hockey, etc. to play on my PS2

masteen · Post by **masteen** » September 21, 2004, 5:56 pm

The NBA is further down the cornhole path than the NHL. Basketball has been popular for a long time, and had a huge amount of grassroots support throughout the US. Hockey was primarily a northern sport until the 80s began bringing it south.

The NBA has geared itself to be a league of Heir Jordan, but didn't seem to realize that there is only one MJ. They thought mandating a man defense would "add excitement" but are now reaping what they sowed as draft after draft of kids who can't even shoot free throws consistantly enters the league.

xZiBiT · Post by **xZiBiT** » September 21, 2004, 6:18 pm

I don't mind paying for my NBA tickets for two reasons

1. When I go I get to see a team game rather than 18year old pampered kids everynight flailing up a shot everytime he touches the ball.
2. The prices for Piston's tickets are much more reasonable than Lion's or Red Wing's tickets.

That being said, I'm sad I won't be able to watch Stevie Y play again before he finishes out his career.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » September 22, 2004, 9:16 am

They think all anyone wants to see in the NBA is dunks. I think every dunk you could ever hope to see has been done and is getting old. Show me guys who can shoot the fucking ball. I seriously hope they make wholesale changes and adopt a straight international ruleset. That would eliminate a shit ton of non-shooting thugs and actually make basketball a team sport again.

xZiBiT · Post by **xZiBiT** » September 22, 2004, 12:45 pm

If they adopted a straight international ruleset, I would never watch another NBA game.

I watched the Olympics and was bored out of my mind. Zone defense and moving in the three point line would kill my interest in the sport. Just my opinion though.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » September 22, 2004, 1:05 pm

The NFL is the best of the big three. (NFL, NBA, MLB) (Hockey doesn't even qualify)

The money seems controlled and the product is outstanding. The only thing I'd change is extend the season to 18 games and shorten the preseason to two games and let the teams practice more without penalty in the offseason. Injuries are brutal in the NFL and two less preseason games won't hurt...if that's not an option then still go to 18 games and add a third earlier preseason game.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » September 22, 2004, 1:26 pm

It's easy to break a zone defense IF YOU HAVE PLAYERS THAT CAN SHOOT THE BALL. The reason international b-ball is boring is because they don't have the talent we do.

Think back to the days of Bird, Dr. J, Magic. Those teams played against zone defenses, and they scored 120 ppg.

xZiBiT · Post by **xZiBiT** » September 22, 2004, 2:34 pm

I don't want to see 4 guys camped out at the three point line tossing up brick after brick. Personally, I think the most exciting play in the game is watching a player drive to the basket only to have his shit tossed by Ben Wallace, KG, and the other great shot blockers in the league.

Besides, even if you change the rules to international rules, do you honestly think these young guys in the league now are majically gonna develop a jumpshot. I don't think so, Lebron will be Lebron, Carmelo carmelo. It will take at least 5 or 10 years to cycle to the international style. It took from the late 80's to the late 90's to develop into the game we have today from the MJ/Bird era. the style of game isn't going to change overnight now.

Personally, i think there needs to be more emphasis on the team game but you don't have to switch the entire rule set to accomplish it.

And of course the gamestyle emphasizes the spectacular dunks. When is the last time you seen a routine 16foot jumper make the top ten on sportcenter?

The spectacular plays(dunk,BTB passes,etc) that Bird, Magic, and Dr.J are the exact reason the game is the way it is today. Yes, those teams all had role players that made buckets so those teams scored 120ppg. But today, there are 5 players on floor at all-times trying to be Bird/Magic/Dr.J. Everyone is trying to emulate them rather than take on the role of a Michael Cooper or Danny Ainge.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » September 22, 2004, 3:03 pm

xZiBiT wrote: When is the last time you seen a routine 16foot jumper make the top ten on sportcenter?

I think it was during the Olympics as they showed the shots that ended with the U.S. team getting another "L" slapped on them by short white guys who don't brick shots from their camp at the 3 point line.

Crav · Post by **Crav** » September 22, 2004, 3:07 pm

xZiBiT wrote:The spectacular plays(dunk,BTB passes,etc) that Bird, Magic, and Dr.J are the exact reason the game is the way it is today. Yes, those teams all had role players that made buckets so those teams scored 120ppg. But today, there are 5 players on floor at all-times trying to be Bird/Magic/Dr.J. Everyone is trying to emulate them rather than take on the role of a Michael Cooper or Danny Ainge.

You can't really blame the state of the game on Magic, Bird and Dr. J, they may have done the spectacular, but they were all fundamentally sound. None of them shot under 77% (Both Bird and Magic shot over 84%) from the free throw line for their career. Plus the fact that all the international players also grew up watching them play.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » September 22, 2004, 3:21 pm

xZiBiT wrote:I don't want to see 4 guys camped out at the three point line tossing up brick after brick.

Tossing up bricks is not how you BREAK a zone; that's how you LOSE to a zone. When I say "shooters" I mean guys who make shots, not dumb shits who take (and miss) shots.

xZiBiT wrote:Personally, I think the most exciting play in the game is watching a player drive to the basket only to have his shit tossed by Ben Wallace, KG, and the other great shot blockers in the league.

Yawn. My buddy fell asleep at the last game we went to. It was a defensive struggle that the Heat won. Zo had like 4 blocks. The stadium was fucking empty before the 4th quarter. Clearly not many people agree with you.

xZiBiT wrote:And of course the gamestyle emphasizes the spectacular dunks. When is the last time you seen a routine 16foot jumper make the top ten on sportcenter?

I can think of quite a few, but none since Jordan retired. Unfortunately, the skill level has deteriorated to the point where I see more blown dunks than spectactular ones in a typical game. It's also fucking AGONIZING to watch most of these chumps at the charity stripe.

xZiBiT wrote:The spectacular plays(dunk,BTB passes,etc) that Bird, Magic, and Dr.J are the exact reason the game is the way it is today. Yes, those teams all had role players that made buckets so those teams scored 120ppg. But today, there are 5 players on floor at all-times trying to be Bird/Magic/Dr.J. Everyone is trying to emulate them rather than take on the role of a Michael Cooper or Danny Ainge.

Wrong. The rules were changed because they saw how much people loved his Airness, and tried to adapt the league to create more of him.

xZiBiT · Post by **xZiBiT** » September 22, 2004, 4:50 pm

To me, the turning point for the league came in the 80's when it was Magic vs. Bird. Before Magic vs. Bird basketball was what hockey is today. Magic and Bird in conjunction with sportscenter sowed the seeds for state of the game today.

Sure the were terriffic fundamental players as were Michael and Dr.J but all the highlight clips show are the flashy side of basketball. I certainly don't remember a single free throw or pass but I can remember him stealing the in bounds from the Piston's and going draino from the corner. The spectacular is what you remember not the mundane. When I went to the park the next day, I relived and replayed the shot from the corner not the free throws he made.

Anyways, we are way off topic now and those are just my opinions on the subject. I like the local product I pay for so I go watch the Pistons. If I didn't like my local product, I wouldn't watch it.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » September 22, 2004, 5:24 pm

I remember watching Jordan making free throws with his eyes closed. Not many people have the machine-like fundamentals to pull that off.

I also remember watching Bird make jumper after jumper during some of the Celtic series. Taken one by one, they were nothing special. When you realize that he just shot 15-18 (3-4) while still dishing out 10 assists, it becomes something very special. So I guess it's a problem of instant gratification; people appreciate the windmill dunk NOW, where as some of the other marks (great shooting, perfect from the stripe, double digit assists) might not even be tallied until the game is over.

I am not dissing the Pistons, the play the kind of team defense not usually seen outside of the NCAA. It's not just shot blocking, they collapse on the ball like ravenous wolves

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » September 22, 2004, 5:32 pm

When you're talking about fundamentals.. to me, Duncan is one of the most fundamental sound players in the NBA. Yet he shoots freethrows like a lame duck. I never quite understood that..

Crav · Post by **Crav** » September 22, 2004, 6:22 pm

Well I think with Duncan it's a lot more of a mental thing, I mean he did shoot 79% and 71% the previous two years. I only mentioned free throw shooting because it is a fundamental skill and one that can be easily measured. Still it goes to show how sound those players were when they could hold their average above 80%(excluding Dr. J 77%) for their careers.

I wonder when it started to change when being athletic started to be enough and coaches stopped stressing fundamentals to their star players.

xZiBiT · Post by **xZiBiT** » September 22, 2004, 6:22 pm

All I'm trying to say is that when a young kid (me when I was in 5th-6th grade) went out to play basketball, they try to re-enact the fantastic rather than practice the fundamentals.

You see a guy make a breathtaking reverse lay-up al a Michael Jordan, you go out and try to make the same fantastic highlight. You dream about making the fantastic highlight and getting the fame/glory/money/women that professionals get. Kids think that the way to get that glory is through the highlight reel rather than through fundamental skill. Obviously, that approach to reasoning of highlight over fundamentals is justified otherwise how do you explain LeBron, Carmelo, et al.

Crav · Post by **Crav** » September 22, 2004, 6:43 pm

Yea, but you have to remember that in order to play in the NBA you usually have to go through high school basketball then college. There should be better coaching of fundamentals, but for some reason coaches are satisfied with letting star player not work at it. Once they get to the NBA and are an investment to a team the coaches can't force them to work on their fundamentals.

I mean think about the NFL, yea you see the circus catches and the big runs, but you have to be fundamentally sound in order to play at the NFL level. If you can't run a route correctly you are not going to catch many passes, no matter how fast you are or how high you can jump.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » September 22, 2004, 6:51 pm

Too many kids think the hightlight reel is more important than championships. Ask Dan Marino how many passing records he would trade for ONE Super Bowl win.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » September 22, 2004, 7:18 pm

masteen wrote:Too many kids think the hightlight reel is more important than championships. Ask Dan Marino how many passing records he would trade for ONE Super Bowl win.

I don't know! He didn't say he'd trade th records in this quote. He said it would enhance his already great career:

''I want to know what it's like (to play in a Super Bowl) and win one. My career will be great without it. But, personally, selfishly, I want to know what it feels like."
-- Marino on Jan. 28, 1999

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » September 23, 2004, 2:06 am

People still qualify professional basketball as a sport and not a poodle-show? Hah!

Crav · Post by **Crav** » September 29, 2004, 1:37 am

Apparently Winslow is out for the year now. Man Cleveland fans just can't buy a break, well a good break.

Link

TE's ligaments need stabilizing
Associated Press

CLEVELAND -- Browns rookie tight end Kellen Winslow Jr. needs a second operation on his right leg and will miss the remainder of this season.

Winslow, who broke his fibula during a loss on Sept. 19 in Dallas and had it operated on last week, will have surgery Wednesday to stabilize ligaments.

Winslow, the No. 6 overall pick in this year's draft, was initially expected to be out for at least eight to 10 weeks but will now need longer to recover.

"Our No. 1 concern is Kellen's health and his long-term contribution to the Cleveland Browns," coach Butch Davis said in a statement Tuesday. "We know he will approach his rehabilitation with the same determination that he shows on the football field and look forward to his return for the 2005 season."

Winslow fractured his fibula -- the outer bone in his lower leg -- while scrambling to recover an onside kick in the final seconds of the Browns' 19-12 loss to the Cowboys.

Last week, the first-round draft pick had screws and plates inserted to stabilize the fracture that was clean through the bone.

Following the surgery, Davis reported that doctors found no ligament damage and said there was a good chance Winslow would be back in November.

But after evaluating Winslow, team doctors decided he needed more surgery.

"Kellen needs a stabilization of his syndesmosis [a sprain of the high ankle ligaments] in order to prevent further laxity," head trainer Mike Colello said.

An injury such as Winslow's can sometimes require additional surgery.

Following a trauma to the lower leg or ankle, the joint can become unsteady and painful, requiring an invasive procedure to allow the ligaments to heal properly.

Not only will Winslow not play again for the Browns in 2004, but he stands to lose a $5.3 million one-time bonus. As part of the six-year, $40 million contract he signed in August, Winslow had to participate in 35 percent of Cleveland's plays this season to reach an incentive to trigger the bonus.

The announcement that Winslow needs more surgery is yet another blow to the battered Browns (1-2), who have lost eight starters to injury in the season's first three weeks.

In addition to Winslow, defensive end Courtney Brown and linebacker Ben Taylor are out for the year with injuries. Taylor was placed on injured reserve Tuesday.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » September 29, 2004, 10:46 am

heh people here are mighty unhappy.. hearing calls for Butch's head now.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » September 29, 2004, 11:23 am

They could have had Roy Williams. I'd be calling for the entire front office if I were a Cleveland fan.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » September 29, 2004, 11:37 am

The Browns wide receivers aren't that shabby actually, they have underachieved some but they have the abilities needed. Their O-line stinks though heh.

xZiBiT · Post by **xZiBiT** » September 29, 2004, 12:55 pm

masteen wrote:They could have had Roy Williams. I'd be calling for the entire front office if I were a Cleveland fan.

Not only that but Detroit bundled Cleveland's second round pick to get Kevin Jones.

I still cannot beleive the Cowboy's passed Stephen Jackson and Kevin Jones to pick up Julius Jones.

Adelrune Argenti · September 30, 2004, 10:25 pm

To get this thread back on track...

I got stuck with Winslow on my fantasy team (20 teams in the league means you get shit for some players) so I am hurting. I also have Carolina's Smith so I am doubly screwed.