700 Club

Pherr the Dorf · Post by **Pherr the Dorf** » September 18, 2004, 12:12 am

gratz Barry

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » September 18, 2004, 1:24 am

ehh

Honestly, that was the feeling I felt. He has a wicked eye and excellent wrists, especially impressive considering how few pitches he gets to hit but he is also not a very likable person. Oddly, the latter is why many just don't give a shit about what he's doing even if his run is on every sports show. Just strange how few people really care about this run from a player that looks like he plays in a different league.

I mean, he's a strange player. He's a power hitter that's disciplined. He plays on a team that has no answer to him getting walked(an oddity since he does score a shit-ton of runs). He plays nearly every day but doesn't hustle on a lot of runs. And he's the size of a tank but has a baby voice.

He's, easily the best hitter most of us will ever see live yet I don't get a sense of people around me really caring. Yankee staium was pretty quiet when the announcment was made and the stadium normally has something to say about everything

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » September 18, 2004, 10:54 am

He's an Alien. I saw it on the X-Files.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » September 19, 2004, 11:38 am

he's juiced

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » September 19, 2004, 11:55 am

I find it hillarious how people bitch about him being on roids while cheering on Armstrong for his wins. Same type of evidence, same type of personality.. one is cheered as a hero, one as a villain.

Big congrats to Barry.

Pherr the Dorf · Post by **Pherr the Dorf** » September 19, 2004, 12:18 pm

Course supposively Barry was juiced last year, but when they took his sample from last year to see if he commited purgery on the stand (he said he took no steroids)...nothing happened. There is no evidence, Barry bulked up years before he hired his now infamous ex-trainer, the trainer has said he offered them to Barry and Barry refused them. I personally don't think Lance is juiced the same way I don't think Barry is, sometimes, every so often, the great ones just show up and amaze us.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » September 19, 2004, 1:10 pm

And of course, it makes perfect sense for an older player who is growing slower to work more on power than anything else. He can't run as fast, so he has to hit it out of the park instead. It isn't THAT hard to bulk up.

Oh.. and 'roids don't help you hit the ball.

noel · Post by **noel** » September 19, 2004, 3:19 pm

Kelshara wrote:I find it hillarious how people bitch about him being on roids while cheering on Armstrong for his wins. Same type of evidence, same type of personality.. one is cheered as a hero, one as a villain.

Riiiiiiiiight...

There are just as many Armstrong detractors worldwide as there are Bonds detractors. The difference, which you should be able to figure out yourself, is that baseball is a sport that's actually followed in the US.

And as far as hero/villain... when's the last time Bonds did ANYTHING for anyone but himself...

Aevian Dreaklear · Post by **Aevian Dreaklear** » September 19, 2004, 3:35 pm

If Bonds ever layed down a bunt to the third base side and tried to leg one out, my respect for him would jump greatly. He is still the best hitter in baseball, and probably will be one of the top 3 of all time, but I have much more respect and like for Albert Pujohls who has bunted down the 3rd base side for a hit when the 3B is playing him way back.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » September 19, 2004, 6:10 pm

Yes because the age makes no difference between Pujols and Bonds..

And Noel, go watch the "Outside the lines" episode about Bonds vs Armstrong. The similarities of the cases are amazing, the difference of how the two athletes are viewed is ridiculous. Lance can be just as much of an ass as Barry can be.

Pherr the Dorf · Post by **Pherr the Dorf** » September 19, 2004, 8:52 pm

When was the last time Barry didn't carry his whole team how many times have they gotten into the postseason in the past... 7 years because of him? Just because you don't Rah Rah, you watch him, in a close game, he's on the rail, he's one of the first out of the dugout, Barry wants to do his thing, and he does it better then anyone. As far as legging out a bunt, take the OBS and Slugging % and you'll realize he averages more then a single an AB, he gets walked enough not to waste a decent pitch.

Trek · Post by **Trek** » September 20, 2004, 12:27 am

I've been to a few games over the years and sit in the LF bleachers right at the wall, I would be happy to see him stand ready to field instead of him with his hand in his back pocket, but thats me. With no real 'leadership' in sports in general over roids and other performance enhancing drugs there will always be people skeptical over records. Most every sport has a superstar that a lot of people would like a * next to their record/s

noel · Post by **noel** » September 20, 2004, 1:10 pm

Kelshara wrote:And Noel, go watch the "Outside the lines" episode about Bonds vs Armstrong. The similarities of the cases are amazing, the difference of how the two athletes are viewed is ridiculous. Lance can be just as much of an ass as Barry can be.

That's not what I said. I didn't say Lance couldn't be an ass. I said Lance does a hell of a lot of good for other people. hint: HE DOESN'T HAVE TO.

As far as how the athletes are viewed... I'll say it again. Within the United States, NO ONE follows cycling. Your average American knows the following about Lance: 1) He wins the Tour de France every year and apparently that's a big deal in the sport of cycling 2) He came back from cancer and now is trying to raise money and awareness for cancer research, recover, survivorship, etc. 3) He's from Texas... A few of them even know he's dating Sheryl Crow. Which is to say... they don't know shit.

But lets go back to the Time trial up Alpe d'Huez. How ridiculously was he viewed then? Fans spitting on him, yelling 'dope!' as he rode by. Holding up signs accusing him of doping, and painting his name with needles on the asphault. Within the sport of cycling there is a large group of people who believe he's not clean, and aren't afraid to say it, but those fans are mostly (SHOCK) Europeans who actually follow the sport.

Ultimately with Barry, and with Lance and with the current accusations and lack of evidence against them, it comes down to whether or not you want to believe them. It's a choice. There's no proof against either of them that will stand up in court, or make them fail a drug test (perhaps as yet). So choose to believe what you want, but being shocked at how Lance is perceived has more to do with the fact that you're from Europe and don't understand how little Americans care about cycling than anything else.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » September 20, 2004, 1:12 pm

heh you're just *slightly* biased as well

noel · Post by **noel** » September 20, 2004, 1:14 pm

Please tell me what I said that was biased. I personally don't believe Lance takes performance enhancing drugs, but I have acknowledged that I am taking him at his word based on a lot of accusations, and a lack of evidence.

That's not the question you raised. The question you raised was one of Lance's character versus Bonds' character, and why the two are viewed so differently by (presumably) the American public.

So please show me the bias. I'd love to see it.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » September 20, 2004, 1:23 pm

Eh your entire view of Lance is biased, just like some people are biased towards Kobe and his case because they like/follow him as an athlete. It isn't just one thing you say, it is your general view of the person. It was probably best shown in this comment here:

I personally don't believe Lance takes performance enhancing drugs, but I have acknowledged that I am taking him at his word based on a lot of accusations, and a lack of evidence.

noel · Post by **noel** » September 20, 2004, 1:36 pm

That's not biased, that's the reality in sports today. Pick an athlete, any athlete. I could have just as easily said, Marion Jones, Barry Bonds, Bill Romanow-- ok, I couldn't have said Romanowski, but you get the idea.

It's not biased at all. I'm saying that:

1. Testing sucks!
2. Accusations without evidence aren't always possible to refute.

If anyone here is biased, it's you! Congrats!

masteen · Post by **masteen** » September 20, 2004, 1:38 pm

Kelshara wrote:Eh your entire view of Lance is biased, just like some people are biased towards Kobe and his case because they like/follow him as an athlete. It isn't just one thing you say, it is your general view of the person. It was probably best shown in this comment here:
I personally don't believe Lance takes performance enhancing drugs, but I have acknowledged that I am taking him at his word based on a lot of accusations, and a lack of evidence.

Which is exactly the same thing he said about Bonds. Are you going to argue that cycling isn't more popular in Europe than MLB? Or are you going to present evidence that Lance is a doper? The only bias here is in your brain, dipshit.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » September 20, 2004, 1:47 pm

Oh no I was called a dipshit by the glorious Masteen! What will I ever do! At least try to use something halfway original when you insult, eh? Throw out an "asswad", "fucktard" or maybe even a "fuckwad"!

Cycling more popular in Europe than MLB? Most likely.
The people going after Lance? A minority of Germans did.
Drug tests suck? Well, unfortunately the US is still way behind in drug testing. USADA has been the laughing stock of the sports world really.

Fine you're not biased (I beg to differ but oh well). I'll just keep laughing at people who worship Lance while they don't say a single good thing about Bonds.

noel · Post by **noel** » September 20, 2004, 2:19 pm

Kelshara wrote:Cycling more popular in Europe than MLB? Most likely.
The people going after Lance? A minority of Germans did.
Drug tests suck? Well, unfortunately the US is still way behind in drug testing. USADA has been the laughing stock of the sports world really.

Fine you're not biased (I beg to differ but oh well). I'll just keep laughing at people who worship Lance while they don't say a single good thing about Bonds.

I never said Cycling was more popular in Europe than MLB. Never, ever. I don't have the first clue about the popularity of MLB in Europe.

What I said was... Cycling is NOT popular in the US. I said that the average American knows jack and shit about it.

As far as the people going after Lance... how about the people who took the time to write a book? How about his former soigneur? Last I checked, Lance isn't tested by USADA, he's tested by the UCI and by WADA so I'm not sure where you're going with that. I do agree that the USADA is a joke.

As far as me not saying a single good thing about Bonds... I have no qualms in saying, I've never met the guy, I think he's a phenomenal athlete, and the majority of my opinion of Bonds has been based on comments from Jim Rome on his radio show. The fact is former teammates and former coaches of Bonds don't have a lot of nice things to say about him. There are serious questions about his character from people who know him...

I don't recall any of Lance's former teammates with the possible exclusions of Frederic Vasseur (admitted doper), and Kevin Livingston (they're friends again, and there's more to that story than I really want to type here), ever saying a bad word about him.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » September 20, 2004, 2:35 pm

You like Rome? Bah, I can't stand him. Stupid show and he does a poor job leading it imho. I'd way rather watch PTI than Rome is Burning!

Tenuvil · Post by **Tenuvil** » September 20, 2004, 2:36 pm

noel wrote:...[l]ast I checked, Lance isn't tested by USADA, he's tested by the UCI and by WADA...

Just to clarify and add a pointless 2 cents...

I'm pretty certain he identifies the officious couple that demanded a sample as he was rushing his wife to the hospital to have their twins as USADA testers, but it's been a while since I read "Every Second Counts" and I may be wrong.

(Was going to post more about the interrelationships of the UCI and national federations and who has authority to test when and where, but I raised more questions in my own mind and need to follow up)

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » September 20, 2004, 2:41 pm

My USADA comment was more directed as a general comment towards American athletes and drug testing than directly towards Lance. I find it interesting that USADA might not be involved with testing him at all though, I know back home our national agency test all athletes on a random basis in addition to whatever their separate international organizations might do. And we don't give a shit about their privacy like MLB does.

Pherr the Dorf · Post by **Pherr the Dorf** » September 20, 2004, 2:45 pm

You do realize what Barry does with his salary... the community projects he supports, the fact that a portion of his salary goes directly to his charities and allows the Giants to be the ones that write it off from a tax purpose, so they could actually afford him? There are doznes of baseball parks for kids he's built, there is a huge community fund, does he advertise any of this shit, no, why, because he doesn't care if people like him, he does on the other hand care about others, and like Lance, he certainly doesn't HAVE to. Odd thing, he and Lance are running pretty damn parallel on OMGIAMRETARDEDCAUSEALOTISTWOWORDS of levels, MVP 6 incoming Barry

noel · Post by **noel** » September 20, 2004, 2:59 pm

Kelshara wrote:You like Rome? Bah, I can't stand him. Stupid show and he does a poor job leading it imho. I'd way rather watch PTI than Rome is Burning!

I rarely watch the TV version of Rome's radio show, but I've been listening to his radio show off and on for about ten years. He's one of the best interviewers I've ever heard.

Tenuvil · Post by **Tenuvil** » September 20, 2004, 3:00 pm

I think that people who judge sports figures because of their reputations are being somewhat provincial, and not exactly fair.

The reality is that people resent success. Especially teammates of the ultra-successful in sport. It's very common, and only natural, for these people to be resentful of people like Lance and Barry, and call them "arrogant" or imply their success comes from a bottle or syringe.

I applaud both of these incredible athletes for their accomplishments and take the negative stuff with a grain of salt.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » September 20, 2004, 3:07 pm

Kelshara wrote:You like Rome? Bah, I can't stand him. Stupid show and he does a poor job leading it imho. I'd way rather watch PTI than Rome is Burning!

Jim Rome is a great sports radio host. I've only seen Jim Rome is burning once and it was ok but he's better at radio.

Dan Patrick sucks balls. He comes off as such a dick during his interviews and commentary. I can't stand to listen to that smug asshat on ESPN radio which is the same time as Rome during the day.

Rome all the way. He has his bad days but most of them are entertaining, informative and funny.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » September 20, 2004, 3:21 pm

I have never heard his radio show nor ESPN radio. I judge Rome from his TV show and that sucks..

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » September 20, 2004, 4:05 pm

Jim Rome is the definitive jocksniffer.