Kobe Bryant Trial: SI Releases Detailed Info

noel · Post by **noel** » September 1, 2004, 10:26 am

Some info here is new, some isn't, but I thought the article was interesting:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/m ... index.html

Lalanae · Post by **Lalanae** » September 1, 2004, 12:31 pm

I don't get why people are so convinced that he is innocent when there is physical evidence of rape. People are too quick to assume that just because he has money that she MUST be a lying whore.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » September 1, 2004, 12:33 pm

It's hard for me to be for sure on this, because there is a lot of evidence going either direction. But in the back of my head, this seems like another girl lying to get some money off a rich ball player.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » September 1, 2004, 12:34 pm

i think the (alledged) fact that she had some other guy's semen in her crotch within 24 hrs after being "raped" suggests she is a lying whore.

most women wouldn't have sex with their husbands within 24 hrs of being raped, let alone a random hook up.

granted i'm not following the case at all, and i could certainly be basing my off-the-cuff opinions on limited info. bottom line for me is i simply don't care beyond if the guy is guilty he should go to jail.

Lalanae · Post by **Lalanae** » September 1, 2004, 12:40 pm

Voronwë wrote:i think the (alledged) fact that she had some other guy's semen in her crotch within 24 hrs after being "raped" suggests she is a lying whore.

most women wouldn't have sex with their husbands within 24 hrs of being raped, let alone a random hook up.

granted i'm not following the case at all, and i could certainly be basing my off-the-cuff opinions on limited info. bottom line for me is i simply don't care beyond if the guy is guilty he should go to jail.

there is no evidence that the semen was "deposited" there after the rape.

There is blood on his shirt and vaginal trauma however.

Avryce · Post by **Avryce** » September 1, 2004, 12:40 pm

Post the article! Curse my limited net access at work.

All in all so far what we've been told of her actions up to and around the date of the alledged rape I have a hard time believing he is guilty. Then again I'm not in the trial and I doubt all the evidence/information available is readily given to reporters.

noel · Post by **noel** » September 1, 2004, 12:43 pm

By request:

After months of sparring, media spinning and nearly unanimous predictions that the trial would never happen, jury selection began last Friday in the Kobe Bryant sexual-assault case in Eagle, Colo. SI has seen previously undisclosed documents, which, in conjunction with court transcripts and interviews, are the basis for this report of how the trial may unfold.

Like most acquaintance rape cases, this one involves a man and a woman who entered a room, only to emerge with diametrically opposed versions of what happened there. The accuser's testimony will be the centerpiece of the state's case. But the physical evidence -- genital injuries, blood and DNA -- as well as Bryant's lengthy police statement will be crucial to both sides. Collection of this evidence began on July 1, 2003, about 12 hours after the incident, when Detective Doug Winters from the Eagle County Sheriff's Office and Deputy Marsha Rich went to the home of a 19-year-old college freshman to investigate her report of a sexual assault. Questioning the woman in the presence of her parents, Winters and Rich learned the man she was accusing was Kobe Bryant. The officers asked for the clothing she had worn the night before. Winters noticed what appeared to be a blood stain on a pair of purple panties. The officers took the woman and her clothing to the sheriff's office, where she gave a detailed videotaped statement.

Next her parents drove her to Valley View Hospital, where two nurses trained in sexual-assault cases conducted a rape-kit exam. SI has learned the exam revealed "multiple lacerations" and "bruises" between the vagina and anal opening. The nurses, noting the subject had not showered or douched since the encounter, described the injuries as genital "trauma" inconsistent with consensual sex.

Investigators then went to question Bryant, arriving at the Lodge & Spa at Cordillera, where the woman worked, roughly 24 hours after the alleged assault. Without receiving a Miranda warning or consulting a lawyer, Bryant spoke for 75 minutes to Winters and his partner, Dan Loya, who, unbeknownst to Bryant, had activated a concealed tape recorder. Most of the conversation has been admitted into evidence by trial judge Terry Ruckriegle. According to a report made available to SI, Bryant acknowledged talking with the woman. He told police they "shot the s---" but denied having sex with her. After the detectives said they had evidence to the contrary, Bryant admitted that he did have sex with the woman but denied any use of force. When asked how he knew the woman wanted to have sex, Bryant said he could tell from the look she gave him. Then he discussed with investigators something his accuser had not: oral sex. (The accuser told nurses at the hospital, who later told investigators, that Bryant made her kiss his penis and that she washed her face before leaving the room.)

In his interview with the detectives, Bryant remained cooperative and polite but expressed fears that his wife would find out about the incident and that it could ruin his career. When asked if he would pay his accuser to make the allegation go away, Bryant said that he would. After the interview, when the detectives executed a search warrant, Bryant took off his T-shirt, saying it was the same one he'd worn the previous night. It contained three smears of blood around the waist area. The officers then took Bryant to Valley View Hospital, where he provided body fluid samples and had his penis and other body parts swabbed. He was arrested two days later.

Whether Bryant testifies will probably not be determined until the prosecution rests. But despite his lawyers' efforts to have his statement and bloody shirt excluded, Ruckriegle deemed them admissible. Prosecutors will attempt to link the shirt to the injuries detected during the rape-kit exam. Those injuries are similar to the ones used as evidence by Greg Garrison when he successfully prosecuted Mike Tyson in Indianapolis in 1992 for raping a college freshman who willingly went to his hotel room and later said she was assaulted. Like Garrison, Colorado prosecutors will present graphic exhibits and medical testimony that the injuries are not consistent with consensual sex. Bryant's lawyers may try to minimize the injuries, but they are more likely to try to raise doubts about who caused them and use complicated DNA evidence to suggest it was someone other than Bryant. (The validity and admissibility of that evidence was challenged by prosecutors last week, but Ruckriegle had not ruled on the issue when SI went to press.)

When Bryant's accuser underwent her medical exam, swabs were taken from her vagina and thighs. Also, fabric samples were taken from the yellow underpants she wore to the exam and the purple pair worn during her encounter with Bryant. Initially, this evidence was analyzed by the Colorado Bureau of Investigation at the crime lab in Denver, which found that the pair worn to the exam contained a semen stain belonging to a man other than Bryant.

The defense subsequently ran its own forensic tests on the underwear and the swabs collected from the accuser. The analysis was performed by a private lab in Ventura, Calif., operated by Marc Taylor, a former L.A. Medical Examiner's Office criminalist who worked as an expert witness for the O.J. Simpson defense team. Taylor's lab reported that it found sperm from a man other than Bryant -- identified as Mr. X -- in both pairs of the accuser's underwear and on the swabs taken from her body.

At a closed-door hearing on June 21 and 22, DNA expert Elizabeth Johnson testified for the defense that the accuser's sexual contact with Mr. X "likely occurred after [the accuser] and Mr. Bryant were together." Johnson testified that no traces of Mr. X's DNA were detected on the swabs taken from Bryant or the T-shirt he wore. Johnson said that had Mr. X's sperm been on the accuser at the time of her encounter with Bryant, it should have shown up on Bryant.

Based on the publicly released DNA evidence in the case, Ronald Singer, president of the American Academy of Forensic Sciences, and Alan Keel, a criminalist and DNA expert, both told SI that Johnson's argument that Mr. X's fluids were deposited on the woman after her encounter with Bryant raises serious questions.

The accuser told investigators that she had sex about three days before meeting Bryant but no sex between that encounter and her exam. It has been reported that the DNA on the purple panties establishes that the accuser had sexual contact soon after her encounter with Bryant, but prosecutors have filed a document that says cotton cloth can retain semen even after it has been repeatedly "soaked or washed."

This does not explain sperm and semen on the swabs from the woman's body, but SI has learned that besides being a small sample, the DNA from Mr. X consisted of only the portions of sperm that remain after it has degraded over time. "Generally, when degraded sperm is all you see, it means several days have gone by," said Singer.

The responsibility for explaining this and rebutting Johnson's conclusions will likely fall to Dr. Henry Lee, the criminalist who, along with Marc Taylor, worked for the Simpson defense. But in the Bryant case Lee will testify for the prosecution, while Taylor is working for the defense.

What is Lee likely to say? He may make the point, as both DNA experts interviewed by SI did, that the small amount of sperm from Mr. X is inconsistent with a sexual encounter after one with Bryant. Keel and Singer also agree that semen swabbed from her leg could have been deposited there before she met Bryant -- "but that presumes she didn't shower during that time," said Keel. Lee is also likely to attack the integrity of the defense's DNA analysis.

Although DNA has dominated the pretrial coverage, "this case could hinge on the blood," Singer says, referring to the fact that the stains on Bryant's T-shirt (and on the purple panties) were the accuser's blood. "Her blood on his T-shirt indicates her injuries were caused or reopened by him." There are two likely causes for vaginal bleeding: menstruation and trauma. Records obtained by SI indicate the accuser's period concluded nine days before her encounter with Bryant. "In cases of acquaintance rape, the presence of blood evidence is a touchdown for prosecutors," says Garrison, who did not have such evidence when he prosecuted Tyson.

Bryant's defense lawyers have attempted to admit evidence of the accuser's sexual history, but the judge has limited that to the 72 hours preceding her rape-kit exam. Garrison points out that all the pretrial publicity about the accuser's sex life may hurt her reputation but could help the state's case. "If she is sexually active," explained Garrison, "she is not going to hurt and bleed if she had consensual sex with Kobe. You only bleed if you don't want it to happen."

Jeff Benedict, a frequent contributor to SI, is the author of Out of Bounds: Inside the NBA's Culture of Rape, Violence and Crime.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » September 1, 2004, 1:15 pm

there is no evidence that the semen was "deposited" there after the rape.

There is blood on his shirt and vaginal trauma however.

I disagree, it sounds to me by that article at least that there may be evidence that it was there after, but of course her defense lawyers are going to try and disprove it. And if that does end up being the case then the second part of what you said would lose relevancy because if she had sexual contact shortly before kobe - he could have re-opened her wounds, or if she did shortly after it could have been from that.

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » September 1, 2004, 1:16 pm

Hrrrm her blood on his shirt (9 days after her last period)...That's pretty damning evidence added to the degradation of Mr X's semen and the nurse's observations...fairly strong evidence against him IMO...in fact far better than the evidence that put Tyson in jail...

masteen · Post by **masteen** » September 1, 2004, 1:21 pm

Kobe has the benefit of good looks and a >500 word vocabulary to go with all that money.

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » September 1, 2004, 1:26 pm

masteen wrote:Kobe has the benefit of good looks and a >500 word vocabulary to go with all that money.

There is that...though in theory eloquence should not be a determinant...

Akaran_D · Post by **Akaran_D** » September 1, 2004, 1:30 pm

Try this for reasonable doubt.
She has rough sex (consentual or non, either works for this situation) with Mr. X a few days prior to Kobe. She realizes she can milk Kobe out of OMGIAMRETARDEDCAUSEALOTISTWOWORDS of cash by going criminal then filing civil charges against him if she just wears the same panties.

Her wounds are reopened durring intercourse, Kobe gets blood on him, the injuries are consistant with rough sex/rape and there's no easy way to easily prove when those injuries occured: that night, or a night a few days previous - and it's not something that nurses would think to ask about (I would imagine) durring a rape exam..

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » September 1, 2004, 1:30 pm

this is a jury trial though

noel · Post by **noel** » September 1, 2004, 1:34 pm

I saw several reports shortly after this began that the accuser was heard bragging about Kobe's size at a party.

If there's any credence to that, is it beyond a reasonable doubt to assume that the lacerations were caused due to his size and not due to a rape?

I'm frankly unconvinced either way at this point. Even if the girl had sex 5 minutes before and 5 minutes after Kobe, it doesn't mean she couldn't have been raped by Kobe.

Clearly some of the information that's come out in the press about her raises some serious questions about her character, but again, that doesn't mean she wasn't raped.

Even if Kobe is being falsely accused, I don't really feel sorry for him because he should have been smart enough to never allow himself to be in this situation anyway.

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » September 1, 2004, 1:36 pm

Akaran_D wrote:Try this for reasonable doubt.
She has rough sex (consentual or non, either works for this situation) with Mr. X a few days prior to Kobe. She realizes she can milk Kobe out of OMGIAMRETARDEDCAUSEALOTISTWOWORDS of cash by going criminal then filing civil charges against him if she just wears the same panties.

Her wounds are reopened durring intercourse, Kobe gets blood on him, the injuries are consistant with rough sex/rape and there's no easy way to easily prove when those injuries occured: that night, or a night a few days previous - and it's not something that nurses would think to ask about (I would imagine) durring a rape exam..

Reopened wounds look significantly different than new wounds...an experienced or well trained examiner shouldn't miss that...

In reality short of one side or the other's admission...we will never "know" the truth...but the evidence I read in that article is pretty convincing...albeit that is the only article I have read

And yeah Noel, lacerations occur even in consensual sex with some frequency those aren't particularly convincing in and of themselves...though if she was actually heard bragging...that should be admissible evidence...that would probably win it for the defense in a second...so if its true you can bet the defense would have those people called to testify

Post by **Sylvus** » September 1, 2004, 1:49 pm

Am I reading that wrong or does it say that she had "Mr. X's" semen in two pairs of underwear and on her body? I guess I'd have to hear from the experts on both sides, but right off the bat if I were a juror that would make me look at her a little funny. As far as the lacerations and bruising go, they only mention them around her vagina/anus, yes? Is that consistent with what one would normally find in a rape, or is there usually bruising from holding her down or something as well?

And hypothetically speaking, if Kobe is a, er... "large" man could those sorts of things happen if he were trying to have consentual sex in an uncomfortable place? (no, not the backseat of a volkswagen)

I dunno, I can't really say one way or the other if I think he is guilty or not.

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » September 1, 2004, 1:55 pm

Sylvus wrote:Am I reading that wrong or does it say that she had "Mr. X's" semen in two pairs of underwear and on her body? I guess I'd have to hear from the experts on both sides, but right off the bat if I were a juror that would make me look at her a little funny. As far as the lacerations and bruising go, they only mention them around her vagina/anus, yes? Is that consistent with what one would normally find in a rape, or is there usually bruising from holding her down or something as well?

And hypothetically speaking, if Kobe is a, er... "large" man could those sorts of things happen if he were trying to have consentual sex in an uncomfortable place? (no, not the backseat of a volkswagen)

I dunno, I can't really say one way or the other if I think he is guilty or not.

An odd angle can cause lacerations...regardless of size...

Bruising elsewhere on the body is about 50-50 in rape...The overwhelming emotional trauma and resultant dissociation often has a fuge paralytic effect on the victim...So while resistance injuries would be condemning its not uncommon for them to be absent entirely

Kguku · Post by **Kguku** » September 1, 2004, 3:25 pm

noel wrote:I saw several reports shortly after this began that the accuser was heard bragging about Kobe's size at a party.

So does that mean if the penis don't fit, acquit?

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » September 1, 2004, 3:29 pm

Lalanae wrote:I don't get why people are so convinced that he is innocent when there is physical evidence of rape. People are too quick to assume that just because he has money that she MUST be a lying whore.

What exactly is evidence of rape, a torn snatch? Have you ever been boned by a basketball player? Your snatch would be torn too.

Lalanae · Post by **Lalanae** » September 1, 2004, 3:33 pm

Krimson Klaw wrote:
Lalanae wrote:I don't get why people are so convinced that he is innocent when there is physical evidence of rape. People are too quick to assume that just because he has money that she MUST be a lying whore.
What exactly is evidence of rape, a torn snatch? Have you ever been boned by a basketball player? Your snatch would be torn too.

You are really a clueless tasteless fuck.

miir · Post by **miir** » September 1, 2004, 3:36 pm

Krimson Klaw wrote: What exactly is evidence of rape, a torn snatch? Have you ever been boned by a basketball player? Your snatch would be torn too.

How exactly do you know this, Krim?

On second thought, I really don't want to know.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » September 1, 2004, 3:56 pm

Krimson Klaw wrote:What exactly is evidence of rape, a torn snatch? Have you ever been boned by a basketball player? Your snatch would be torn too.

these things are kind of designed to pass an 8lb screaming, squirming baby you know. I've had some bleeding before but never from the size of a guy.

I've resigned myself to the fact that no one other than the two involved will ever know whether or not she was raped. I'm leaning towards no simply because there are witnesses claiming she bragged about fucking kobe bryant at a party two days later and the fact that she had sex with another guy the day after. also I don't care if she was only 19, you don't go into a basketball star's hotel room at 1 oclock in the morning when nobody else is around and not expect to have sex. what did she think he wanted?

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » September 1, 2004, 4:00 pm

Who among us has never been going at it with some hard fast deep fucking and it slipped out and BAM! hit taint? From what that article describes, I would say that a lot of people from this board could have had charges filed and been found guilty if a woman lied on them and that was the evidence.

If I remember correctly, to be found guilty of a crime in the U.S. means you have to have proof that a crime has been committed beyond a reasonable doubt. There are already enough doubts that any jury should be acquitting him. A civil trial is a whole different ball of wax. I am still scratching my head trying to figure out how Tyson got convicted, yet O.J. walked.

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » September 1, 2004, 4:04 pm

Depends on the amount of blood. It could be spotting but If we are talking large amounts then I don't see a woman exactly going along with that willingly. The only thing I know for sure is that with the evidence we have, we can't get beyond a reasonable doubt.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » September 1, 2004, 4:12 pm

Rape is very subjective. I don't think it should be judged my anyone except judges of sports like gymnastics.

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » September 1, 2004, 4:15 pm

basically if you are a high profile athlete cheating on your wife, it's a good idea to either (A) not do it or (B) video tape it if (A) is not an option for you.

noel · Post by **noel** » September 1, 2004, 5:34 pm

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:Who among us has never been going at it with some hard fast deep fucking and it slipped out and BAM! hit taint?

I'm going to go with Spang, Sweekastings, Iealanddoktur, Adex, etc.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » September 1, 2004, 5:44 pm

I've had intercourse where I ended up looking like a rape victim. Rough sex happens, and sometimes it's really, really good.

noel · Post by **noel** » September 1, 2004, 5:46 pm

masteen wrote:I've had intercourse where I ended up looking like a rape victim. Rough sex happens, and sometimes it's really, really good.

It was good for me too MASTeen

masteen · Post by **masteen** » September 1, 2004, 5:48 pm

You were bragging about my size for weeks after!

Lynks · Post by **Lynks** » September 1, 2004, 5:55 pm

masteen wrote:You were bragging about my size for weeks after!

How something so small can still bring some pleasure?

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » September 1, 2004, 6:17 pm

Bet he has a 6 and a half inch taint. He should be in pr0n.

Drasta · Post by **Drasta** » September 1, 2004, 8:21 pm

ok for all that "vaginal trama" some people are rather "large and thick" you can get trama from that ... trust me

Akaran_D · Post by **Akaran_D** » September 1, 2004, 10:23 pm

Take me off of the list, noel.

noel · Post by **noel** » September 1, 2004, 10:51 pm

Akaran_D wrote:Take me off of the list, noel.

Woo hoo!

Of course the ideal first response to that is: What was his name?

But I'm going to go with: Congrats, I hope it was great for you and her!

Akaran_D · Post by **Akaran_D** » September 1, 2004, 11:35 pm

Well, the incident in question was dry humping in the shower.
I bent my dick on her tailbone.

The ideal is still the same. The pain was sure as hell real.

(tho yes, I have gotten laid, tks!)

(no, it wasn't good. She cried after, and it was like a hotdog down hallway on an overfull waterbed)

Siji · Post by **Siji** » September 2, 2004, 2:07 am

masteen wrote:I've had intercourse where I ended up looking like a rape victim. Rough sex happens, and sometimes it's really, really good.

Most definitely.