What did you think of McCains and Giuliani speeches?

Sirton · Post by **Sirton** » August 31, 2004, 2:41 am

I thought McCains speeches were above the belt on the most part alittle above average.... Was a good speech and I personally hope he runs in 2008 after Bush's second term with Giuliani as VP. McCain has unreal broad support which is great for a leader, but remember Bush had it too(65+% most of his term)...so if he was Pres. hed be belittled, blasted and executed by the otherside aswell.

Giuliani's speech (since Im a republican I maybe biased, Im not a liar) was great..He made you think, cry, laugh, visualize and remember...Was one of the best speeches Ive seen at a convention even over Kerry's speech which I thought was a very good speech on his vietnam career of 4 months, but a lame one of his total career. Giuliani's speech to me was slightly under Ronald Reagans speech in 1992..his goodbye.

I was really proud when Giuliani mentioned Sudan....to me this is starting to look like the next Rwanda...Just because they are black or from Africa do we ignore them? 1.2million people have died there so far because 70% of there islamic population there (Now there fundamental part not all of Islam) decided to commit genocide on 1.2million christians...were are you humanitarian activist when we need you...us republicans are there I thought you all were democrats...why do you turn your backs to what ya'll always preeched about...Its sad its ok to die if your black, christian or if its something that would help a republican started cause.

Kaldaur · Post by **Kaldaur** » August 31, 2004, 2:45 am

The difference between Bush and McCain is McCain is a moderate. Bush is ruled by fundies. Do not generalize that McCain would have been treated the same way as Bush was. McCain wasn't President; drawing conjectures and hypothesizing about his presidency is a bad idea. Bush launched the same type of campaign against McCain that he is now waging against Kerry.

Sirton · Post by **Sirton** » August 31, 2004, 2:55 am

Well I bet you 100$ if McCain becomes president in 2008...he will be done the same..He will be the ultra conservative all of the sudden...

Like I said Bush had 65+% approval most his presidency...longer and more than any president in US History...He did some very moderate things that conservatives got very pissed off at.

Like one poll I read actually said 41%said we were being to soft in Iraq, 42% were saying we were doing just right amount and 17% said we were being to tough. I think some of that negative number maybe, because Bush is to Soft...and you know what proof I have........Look at Kerrys toughening position...actually acting like hed be tougher. Hes working by the more detailed polling reports. Many think we should get out cause we being to much pussys and getting people killed, should just bomb'em to hell I guess to them.

Some major moderate or liberal actions he took:
Spending way to much.
Education act with Teddy Kennedy.
Health Care plan.

Hes been moderately to slightly conservative on the War which McCain would be aswell. Rumperstilzfeld would be conservative and Powell would be moderate ...Kerry would be hmmmm lets see Liberal then moderate but before he was liberal was ULTRA-conservative:)

Thess · Post by **Thess** » August 31, 2004, 2:57 am

I honestly *TRIED* to watch both but couldn't make my way through it (partially because Karae had the remote) - both definately made me laugh though.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » August 31, 2004, 3:22 am

Sirton wrote: Like I said Bush had 65+% approval most his presidency...longer and more than any president in US History...He did some very moderate things that conservatives got very pissed off at.

Whoop-dee-fucking-do. His approval rating was only high because of 9/11 (prior to that he was in the 50-60's but he hadn't been president long enough to screw much up and he was giving out free money for fuck's sake http://www.hist.umn.edu/~ruggles/Approval.htm) and started an almost immediate decline from there until Saddam was captured, and again started tailing off.

If there's any particular reason it got that high and stayed there it was the deep deep desire of US citizens to stand behind their military, and hence Bush, after the poor showing ya'll gave to Vietnam vets. It only took a long time to tail off because people don't like to admit they're flag waving hypocrites.

Regardless, bare statistics are the banner of fools everywhere. Enjoy.

Sirton · Post by **Sirton** » August 31, 2004, 3:31 am

And me for one still stands with him and our military. John Kerrys acting like it too but Im not sure...HEY did you notice the minority leader of the Senates Commercial...He sure wants to look like hes standing by him aswell...Good job Daschle(sp)

and we will be winning this election.

Thankyou.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » August 31, 2004, 5:17 am

Thess wrote:I honestly *TRIED* to watch both but couldn't make my way through it (partially because Karae had the remote) - both definately made me laugh though.

Great comments!

I suggest you pay closer attention to the RNC and advise your fellow democrats on how to run an election campaign afterwards. Unless you have another fat jolly sex crazed democrat hidden away somewhere, you won't be seeing a democrat in the White House anytime soon with the string of stiffs you've been running up against the Grand Old Party lately.

It's not about who the better president might be, it's about getting them elected.

Now it's possible I may need a cure for something that requires stem cell research in my old age so I need you to get at least one democrat elected in the next 30 years. Find a democrat that can be elected! Chop chop! The republicans already have McCain likely lined up for 2008 who can sidestep most of Bush's negativity with the swing voters and some democrats.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » August 31, 2004, 8:34 am

RUDY ! RUDY ! RUDY !

Both were excellent. I really loved Rudy's speech though. He is so engaging. RUDY FOR PRESIDENT 2008!

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » August 31, 2004, 9:33 am

Bush could win the election easily by dropping Cheney and putting Rudy on the ticket.

Metanis · Post by **Metanis** » August 31, 2004, 10:19 am

Sirton wrote:Well I bet you 100$ if McCain becomes president in 2008...he will be done the same..He will be the ultra conservative all of the sudden...

Like I said Bush had 65+% approval most his presidency...longer and more than any president in US History...He did some very moderate things that conservatives got very pissed off at.

Like one poll I read actually said 41%said we were being to soft in Iraq, 42% were saying we were doing just right amount and 17% said we were being to tough. I think some of that negative number maybe, because Bush is to Soft...and you know what proof I have........Look at Kerrys toughening position...actually acting like hed be tougher. Hes working by the more detailed polling reports. Many think we should get out cause we being to much pussys and getting people killed, should just bomb'em to hell I guess to them.

Some major moderate or liberal actions he took:
Spending way to much.
Education act with Teddy Kennedy.
Health Care plan.

Hes been moderately to slightly conservative on the War which McCain would be aswell. Rumperstilzfeld would be conservative and Powell would be moderate ...Kerry would be hmmmm lets see Liberal then moderate but before he was liberal was ULTRA-conservative:)

Bush being categorized as some crazed Bible-thumping fundamentalist is a bunch of hogwash. In addition to Sirton's examples above I'll add Stem Cell Research. A conservative fundamentalist would have just banned all research. Bush took a more moderate course and left at least some lines open to research.

I think Bush is inclined to think conservatively but then why the huge Education Bill? Why the prescription benefit to Medicare? Geez Louise... just maybe Bush is attempting to put the "common welfare" clause to good use?

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » August 31, 2004, 10:30 am

too bad neither McCain nor Rudy can get nominated by the GOP.

they are trying though for 2008 =)

i like McCain, and i thought his speech was pretty good. But i really don't think that anybody who is a moderate can be nominated by the Republicans the way the party is structured.

miir · Post by **miir** » August 31, 2004, 10:53 am

Yeah, it's a shame that a moderate like McCain will never have any real clout in the GOP. I like him a lot.

Silvarel Mistmoon · Post by **Silvarel Mistmoon** » August 31, 2004, 11:20 am

You guys do know that stem cell research is being done in this country right? It's the embryonic stem cell research that is being fought.
Which I can understand having concerns about, but I think that if a woman miscarries she should be able to sign release forms for it to be given to science.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » August 31, 2004, 11:47 am

I'd vote for Bush before ever voting for Giuliani.

That said, Sirton your posts make my head hurt. For goodness sake stop rambling like a 10-year old!

Post by **Sylvus** » August 31, 2004, 1:08 pm

Sirton wrote:Good job Daschle(sp)

That's ironic that the one time you've ever questioned your own spelling you actually spelled the word correctly. Good work!

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » August 31, 2004, 1:11 pm

Silvarel Mistmoon wrote:You guys do know that stem cell research is being done in this country right? It's the embryonic stem cell research that is being fought.
Which I can understand having concerns about, but I think that if a woman miscarries she should be able to sign release forms for it to be given to science.

Stem cells from bone marrow or placentas do not offer nearly the same potential that embryonic cells do. They are already differentiated into blood or other cell types, and are not "pleuripotent". It is theoretically possible that one might be able to make a bone marrow stem cell undifferentiate into an analog of an embryonic stem cell, that could then be re-differentiated into nerve, muscle, or liver tissue (whatever transplant was needed). Maybe.

And that research absolutely needs to be done.

But it will be 10,20, 30, 50 years maybe before that could maybe be done. It is not practical to not have parallel lines of research.

Additionally about 72 stem cell lines exist. The Bush administration has only made public funding available for 23 of those cell lines. A "Cell line" is a clump of cells in a dish that you can get to keep dividing and making copies of itself that can be used.

Abortion and miscarriage does not have anything to do with Stem Cell Research. In vitro Ferilization clinics have extra fertilized embryos sitting in their freezers that will either never be used, or washed down the sink. That is tissue that could be used for research.

It is intellectually inconsistent to be opposed to embryonic stem cell research and be in favor of in vitro fertilization.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » August 31, 2004, 1:49 pm

I thought McCain did a solid job and got in a nice comment about Michael Moore's movie that should help deflate it somewhat. He also dispelled the myth the democrats try to make that war wasn't necessary...McCain emphasized that the choices were war or something worse down the road.

An excellent line by Giuliani was when he said Saddam "himself was a weapon of mass destruction" It was effective in conveying that it didn't matter if WMDs were there or not, Saddam had to go.

Giuliani also made a stab at getting a few jewish votes.

All in all, they were two effective speeches in courting the swing voters.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » August 31, 2004, 1:52 pm

Good point, Voro. This is tissue that WILL BE THROWN AWAY if it's not used in research. It's not like they're cloning babies to extract stem cells or any sick shit like that.

It's like recycling, only instead of reducing the fill rate of dumps, it could provide cures to everything from blindness to paralysis.

Toshira · Post by **Toshira** » August 31, 2004, 2:02 pm

Winnow wrote: An excellent line by Giuliani was when he said Saddam "himself was a weapon of mass destruction" It was effective in conveying that it didn't matter if WMDs were there or not, Saddam had to go.

And the leaders of Iran, N. Korea, Syria, China...do they all "have to go", too?

Uggg...

Where's the paypal link to donate to the family of the suicide bomber that takes out Bush?

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » August 31, 2004, 2:22 pm

Toshira wrote:
Winnow wrote: An excellent line by Giuliani was when he said Saddam "himself was a weapon of mass destruction" It was effective in conveying that it didn't matter if WMDs were there or not, Saddam had to go.
And the leaders of Iran, N. Korea, Syria, China...do they all "have to go", too?

Uggg...

Where's the paypal link to donate to the family of the suicide bomber that takes out Bush?

That psycho priest from the olympics might be available.

I think the powers that be are a little disappointed that Libya folded before we could invade and liberate them from tyranny. They have great beaches.

Niffoni · Post by **Niffoni** » August 31, 2004, 2:25 pm

Winnow wrote:An excellent line by Giuliani was when he said Saddam "himself was a weapon of mass destruction" It was effective in conveying that it didn't matter if WMDs were there or not, Saddam had to go.

Ohhhh, they were fighting metaphorical weapons of mass destruction. now I understand.

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » August 31, 2004, 8:01 pm

McCain, Yes
Giuliani? Maybe for Governor, Senate seat etc, but not for President.

Really though I wish either party had someone at least as capable as either of them running.

archeiron · Post by **archeiron** » September 1, 2004, 12:00 am

Voronwë wrote:It is intellectually inconsistent to be opposed to embryonic stem cell research and be in favor of in vitro fertilization.

LOL! This doesn't stop most people most of the time; they are content to leave unresolved inconsistencies in their moral framework.

murr · Post by **murr** » September 1, 2004, 4:57 pm

I still wish McCain had won the primary in 2000.
I'd probably vote for him in 2008.

Keverian FireCry · Post by **Keverian FireCry** » September 1, 2004, 10:44 pm

An excellent line by Giuliani was when he said Saddam "himself was a weapon of mass destruction" It was effective in conveying that it didn't matter if WMDs were there or not, Saddam had to go.

You could say the exact same thing about Bush.