Cheney opposes Gay Marriage ban

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Kylere
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Cheney opposes Gay Marriage ban

Post by Kylere »

Okay food for thought are the far righties going to hate him for this, and the far lefties going to call it pandering, you bet! I call it him and Bish waffling as a team rather than doing the individual Kerry shuffle.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicsel ... eney_x.htm
Vice President Cheney broke with President Bush on Tuesday on the question of same-sex marriage, saying he believes the issue should be left to the states. "Freedom means freedom for everyone," he said at a campaign rally in Davenport, Iowa.

"Lynne and I have a gay daughter, so it's an issue our family is very familiar with," Cheney said as his daughter Mary stood in the audience. He said he opposes the constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriage that Bush has endorsed.

"But the president makes basic policy for the administration," he added.

Cheney's comments were remarkable on several fronts. He acknowledged his daughter's homosexuality in a more direct way than ever before. While he said in the vice presidential debate in 2000 that the issue of gay marriage should be left to the states, he had not publicly reiterated that view since Bush's decision in February to embrace a federal constitutional ban.

In fact, administration observers were hard-pressed to think of any other issue on which Cheney has publicly disagreed with Bush after a decision had been made.

The vice president also made his comments as Republicans began debating the party platform in New York. The draft was expected to endorse the constitutional amendment. But the GOP convention that opens Monday has been designed to project a moderate image — including prime-time speeches by such party moderates as California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, who supports gay and abortion rights.

Steven Fisher, a spokesman for the Human Rights Campaign, the nation's largest advocacy group for gay men and lesbians, said Cheney's comments showed divisions in the Republican Party.

"President Bush is feeling the heat from swing voters and moderate Republicans who oppose discrimination and who oppose the issue of gay marriage in the Constitution," Fisher said.

Some analysts suggested the vice president's words were smart politics. They could be reassuring to moderates and independent-minded suburban voters concerned that the administration was intolerant in its attitudes toward gays. Lynne Cheney made similar comments in an interview on CNN last month.

But Gary Bauer, a leading social conservative who heads a think tank called American Values, expressed dismay. "My only concern is that in a very close election, his comments could confuse and demoralize voters that President Bush desperately needs," said Bauer, who was in New York for the platform deliberations.

Cheney spoke in response to a questioner who asked, "I would like to know, sir, from your heart — I don't want to know what your advisers say, or even what your top adviser thinks — but I need to know: What do you think about homosexual marriages?"

Mary Cheney, director of vice presidential operations for the Bush campaign, has declined requests for interviews this year. But in an interview with USA TODAY in January 2001, she said her parents "both look you in the eye and tell you the truth, tell you what they're thinking
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Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Very cool. The lefties will be shocked to see Cheney is human.
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Post by Mak »

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Very cool. The lefties will be shocked to see Cheney is human.
No they won't. They'll thinks it's just a politcial strategy.
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Post by vn_Tanc »

Cheney's daughter is a lesbian so he isn't as rabidly anti-gay as the rest of the bush administration.
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Post by Siji »

On one hand, I applaud him for taking this stance. On the other, it would be political suicide for him (and in turn Bush) not to when the world knows he has a lesbian daughter - so it means a bit less. But still, credit where credit is due.
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Post by Sionistic »

He said a while ago, before he was vp, that he believed it should be left up to the states.
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Post by Adex_Xeda »

But, but, Bush is supposed to be Cheney's puppet.
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Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Adex_Xeda wrote:But, but, Bush is supposed to be Cheney's puppet.
lol good point Adex.
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Post by Niffoni »

Cheney having a gay daughter was the greatest thing to happen to america since Ron Reagan got so ill only stem cell research could help him. I know I’ll be crossing my fingers that whoever is elected president comes down with cancer in their first week. Watch those pricks scramble to finally cure THAT fucking problem.
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Post by Voronwë »

Well Cheney said the same thing in the 2000 Vice Presidential debates, so good for him for not buckling under the pressure from the far right.

though frankly i'm not surprised, Cheney may be a lot of things, but he certainly isn't somebody who is going to be pressured into changing his mind. Which can be both a plus and a minus i guess.
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Post by Metanis »

Hey guys, reality check here.

States Rights is a traditionally conservative position. Cheney didn't ENDORSE gay marraige.

Go back and read what he said. His position is consistent with basic conservative thought.

That said, I have no idea whatsoever of the strategic implications for this election will be...
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Post by Voronwë »

Metanis wrote:Hey guys, reality check here.

States Rights is a traditionally conservative position. Cheney didn't ENDORSE gay marraige.

Go back and read what he said. His position is consistent with basic conservative thought.

That said, I have no idea whatsoever of the strategic implications for this election will be...
agree with all of that.

interesting bit i just heard on TV. They are currently hammering out "the platform" that will be presented at the RNC, and there is language in it calling for the Constitutional Amendment bannign Gay Marriage. So perhaps this was Cheney's way of throwing a broadside at that.

Regardless, i respect anybody for standing up for his kid. I frankly was kind of disgusted that Cheney would sit idly by, having a gay child and not speak out against all of this.

So as much as I don't like him, i respect him for speaking out.

or who knows, maybe it is calculated to make him appear more moderate, hehe ! THE MADNESS!! :p
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Post by Kelshara »

Interesting, and a very tough comment to make especially if what Voronwe said about the platform is true. I remember reading comments made in European media about Cheney and how his daughter supposedly went from being a very outspoken lesbian to being mroe in the background when Cheney and Bush hooked up. I have no idea if that is correct or not though..
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Post by Winnow »

I hope Bush doesn't propose banning gay marriages in his RNC speech. He has the far right vote secured already. He needs to focus on picking up the undecided voters. This Cheney remark may give the gay community hope especially with Cheney's daughter possibly helping to mellow out the republican stance on the issue...it may just get them a few extra votes.

Some vague reference by Bush referring to his belief in strong family values should suffice before he moves on to discussing his plans to terraform Mars by the year 2150.
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Post by Fesuni Chopsui »

I bet you Bush won't even mention it Winnow and if he does it will be some shocking turn of events where he ends up revamping his position on gay marriage (although I highly doubt), which would in fact be a relatively smart move...on all other issues Bush already has the far right as many of you have said, I doubt he would lose that vote by changing his position on gay marriage to attract the moderate/swing vote

I commend Cheney...but frankly, it's too little, too late for me :?
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Post by Voronwë »

Well, i dont think Bush will say anything about it. THe primetime speaker lineup pretty much tells you they are going moderate, because that is

it is comical, GOP surrogates were all over the air during the DNC talking about how the DNC isn't giving the "liberal left" a voice at their convention, but the GOP is using the very approach they decried that the Democrats alledgedly were using.

For instance:
McCain, Giulliani, Arnold all have sweet speaking spots.

so anyway, the GOP will be careful and probably say "we support the fundamental unit of society - the marriage of a man and a woman". Which is of course something 99.99999% of people agree with.
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Post by Winnow »

Voronwë wrote: For instance:
McCain, Giulliani, Arnold all have sweet speaking spots.

so anyway, the GOP will be careful and probably say "we support the fundamental unit of society - the marriage of a man and a woman". Which is of course something 99.99999% of people agree with.
Arnold has a primetime spot? oh man : ) Well that will certainly associate a familiar face with the republicans.

McCain is an excellent choice. I'm sure this choice had a little to do with rubbing the VP selection in the face of Kerry but McCain carries a lot of popularity with non republicans as well. Go McCain 2008 if you're still healthy!

Giulliani will whip up the crowd into a frenzy recalling the days following 911.

Issues aside, I think the republicans are better at putting together conventions than the democrats. I just hope they use the blur filter on high definition closeups of the crowd!
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Post by Voronwë »

how is women's beach volleyball in HD?
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Post by Winnow »

Voronwë wrote:how is women's beach volleyball in HD?
:vv_sproing:
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Post by Bakara »

I applaud Cheney for standing up for his daughter who incidentally took OMGIAMRETARDEDCAUSEALOTISTWOWORDS of heat from the gay and lesbian community herself... and rightfully so.

What is flip flopping? Is it:

a: randomly changing your opinion based on what you think others want to hear

or

b: listening to your constituants, your peers and others in your circle of friends. gathering good information and deciding for yourself that your stance on something may be wrong, and changing it?
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Post by Kelshara »

The answer is obvious. If it is a Republican it is B, if it is a Democrat it is A.
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Post by Kaldaur »

I read the article on Cheney today in the Tribune, I must commend Cheney for sticking to the same guns he ran with in 2000. He said it then, and he's still saying it now. I've gotta laugh at Cheney's daughter, though. I guess denying right to certain segments of society (including a segment you live in) is ok as long as you get a good job out of the process. It reminds me of the Jews who worked with the Nazis during the ghetto-era of Germany.

Five VVs to the first fuckface who says I just called Cheney a Nazi and his daughter a Jew.
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Post by miir »

I agree, Cheney is a Nazi with a Jew daughter!
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Post by Kaldaur »

5 VVs to miir.
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Post by Xzion »

Im proud of Cheney for sticking to a more moderate-liberal stance then most of his authoritarian neocon comrades.
Of course both Kerry and Edwards have the same stance as he does, and President Bush is still a homophobe who wants to alter our constitution in order to embrace bigotry and opression.
Hopefully this shows a future for the GOP free of the neocon movement begun by Regan as they embrace "liberals" such as Ah-nuld and Guliani to an extent.
Who knows, maybe il be voting for the Govahnetor in 2012
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Post by Fesuni Chopsui »

The Govahnetor ain't American! :wink:
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Post by Xzion »

Fesuni Chopsui wrote:The Govahnetor ain't American! :wink:
thats why i said 2012! Theyl change the law if they have to
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Post by *~*stragi*~* »

whatever arnold is awesome, i think he'd be one of the most entertaining presidents ever.
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Post by Xzion »

We wouldnt even need to send troops to invade countrys, wed just send the president, a harley, a leather jacket, some sunglasses and a rocket launcher!
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Post by Rasspotari »

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Very cool. The lefties will be shocked to see Cheney is human.
or just make them think that hard core right swingers will only wanna side with lefties on issues when it concerns themselves and or family in some way.

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Post by Aaeamdar »

I doubt he would lose that vote by changing his position on gay marriage to attract the moderate/swing vote
Not true at all. As I have mentioned before, the way they maintain their power is through their willingness to throw it all away on a 3rd party single issue (or single set of issues, rather) candidate. Unlike gays and racial minorities with teh Democrats, the Republican's cannot count on the far right vote unless they pander to the important far right issues - namely gays and abortion.

I don't think Bush will say anything much on the issue. A one-liner at best, but if he does say something, it will most certainly not be a change of position.
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Post by Mplor »

I'm impressed. First thing Cheney's done that I liked since before the 2000 election. Bravo.
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Post by kyoukan »

if cheney didn't have a gay daughter, he would probably be even more opposed to it than bush is. typical fucking hypocrite neocon.
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Post by Cartalas »

kyoukan wrote:if cheney didn't have a gay daughter, he would probably be even more opposed to it than bush is. typical fucking hypocrite neocon.

And you know this for fact?


No you dont so shut your trap.
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Post by Truant »

Cartalas wrote:
kyoukan wrote:if cheney didn't have a gay daughter, he would probably be even more opposed to it than bush is. typical fucking hypocrite neocon.

And you know this for fact?


No you dont so shut your trap.
It's never stopped you.
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Post by Cartalas »

Truant wrote:
Cartalas wrote:
kyoukan wrote:if cheney didn't have a gay daughter, he would probably be even more opposed to it than bush is. typical fucking hypocrite neocon.

And you know this for fact?


No you dont so shut your trap.
It's never stopped you.
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Post by miir »

Cartalas wrote:
kyoukan wrote:if cheney didn't have a gay daughter, he would probably be even more opposed to it than bush is. typical fucking hypocrite neocon.

And you know this for fact?


No you dont so shut your trap.

The word 'probably' in Kyoukan's post, indicates speculation.
Speculation does not equate to fact.
Nowhere did Kyoukan attempt to pass off her speculation as fact.
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Post by Sylvus »

miir, when "speaking in public" as it were, one of the most important things to remember is to know your audience.

you just used a four-syllable word several times. you might want to rethink that!

:P
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Post by Niffoni »

Kyo was only speculating.

I'M saying it's a fact.
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Post by kyoukan »

I actually do know this for a fact because Cheney and his closet dyke wife both spoke out against gay marriage in 2000 before his daughter came out publically. they also denied she had a gay daughter.

So.. I got your facts dangling, you fucking asshole.
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Post by Winnow »

Cheney is pulling a Kerry on this one!

The hip hop flip flop!

If Kerry can flip flop like a mo fo on every issue, Cheney can pull the old switcharoo on at least one issue! It shows true love and caring for his lesbian daughter. What a dad!
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Post by Xzion »

Winnow wrote:Cheney is pulling a Kerry on this one!

The hip hop flip flop!

If Kerry can flip flop like a mo fo on every issue, Cheney can pull the old switcharoo on at least one issue! It shows true love and caring for his lesbian daughter. What a dad!
if he really cared about his daughter, and had the balls to say what was right, he would stand up for a law or even constitutional amendment to define marriage as a union between two consenting adults, regardless of gender.
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Post by Kylere »

If Kyoukan was not a reactionary leftist with no say in the American government at all she would realize that things like your children being different is what causes older people to change their minds. Cursing him because he let his daughter change his mind is dumb.
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Post by Sylvus »

What if he knew the whole time that his daughter was gay and only changed his tune when she let the rest of the world know that she was? Would you still shed that single tear for him then?

It would be less surprising to me that someone knew their adult daughter was gay and only started publicly accepting it when they had to for fear of hurting their political career than it would be for middle aged man to hate gay people his whole life without recognizing a member of his family was one of them, and immediately be accepting of them overnight when the announcement was made.

And what does someone's say or lack thereof in a country's government have to do with their ability to realize that people can change their minds or their ability to comment on how that government is being run? I can't ride a unicycle but I can sure as shit tell you when someone who can is doing it wrong.
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Post by Kylere »

Sylvus wrote:What if he knew the whole time that his daughter was gay and only changed his tune when she let the rest of the world know that she was? Would you still shed that single tear for him then?

It would be less surprising to me that someone knew their adult daughter was gay and only started publicly accepting it when they had to for fear of hurting their political career than it would be for middle aged man to hate gay people his whole life without recognizing a member of his family was one of them, and immediately be accepting of them overnight when the announcement was made.

And what does someone's say or lack thereof in a country's government have to do with their ability to realize that people can change their minds or their ability to comment on how that government is being run? I can't ride a unicycle but I can sure as shit tell you when someone who can is doing it wrong.
You know I realize as soon as I hit post I should edit it and point out that i feel he is a dirt bag and should be removed from office immediatedly since he is a treasonous bastard who intentionally outed a CIA agent because her husband disagreed with him. BUT it is wrong to slam him for having a different opinion now versus then, now if he was speaking to the 700 club on Monday and slammed gays, then on Friday he was speaking to GLAAD and promoted it he would be Kerry, but since he changed his mind over time, maybe the worst thing he did was change his mind.
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Post by Cartalas »

kyoukan wrote:I actually do know this for a fact because Cheney and his closet dyke wife both spoke out against gay marriage in 2000 before his daughter came out publically. they also denied she had a gay daughter.

So.. I got your facts dangling, you fucking asshole.

Well there goes Miir's Theory.
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Post by Drasta »

its a poly to try and get the gay vote ...
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