A call to arms

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » August 17, 2004, 2:37 pm

I never hated the one true God, but the God of all the people I hated.

Pherr the Dorf · Post by **Pherr the Dorf** » August 17, 2004, 2:40 pm

Adex_Xeda wrote:There's one element to this OT vs. NT thing that you guys haven't hammered.

Consider this, Let's say your on top of a burning building about to fall and there's a helicopter up on the roof. God throws you a instruction manual for the helicopter and says "Save yourself!" Most of us even armed with the helicopter manual would fail to operate the helicopter to safety.

God sees our failure to save ourselves by personal action and "logs in" to earth playing a character named Jesus. As Jesus he parachutes down to the roof, gets in the helicopter and yells at you. "Hop in and I'll fly us out of here."

The OT is like that helicopter manual. God provided it as a ticket to freedom, a thing's to do list for salvation. But he also knew that it was a tough standard. He wanted people to recognise that our actions alone fall way short. With the OT he was setting the stage for Jesus.

The NT chronicles Jesus. The OT is still a valid. It does much to reveal the character likes and dislikes of God as well as provide guidelines to a good life.

The fine point is Jesus didn't come along to throw out the OT. He came along to fullfill the point of the OT.

Like the helicopter analogy, Jesus came to save us from the burning building by operating the helicopter. The helicopter manual still has validity despite our personal inability to read and apply it. It's just hat the helicopter manual isn't exactly necessary anymore considering we have a trained pilot sitting next to us.

One more thing, the point of the OT was the idea that you had to sacrifice something innocent to take the punishment for your screwups before God. If you sinned, the OT dictated that you had to sacrifice an innocent animal to take the punishment for your sin. There were all types of rules for avoiding sin and all types of rule for what to sacrifice if you screwed up. When God came down as Jesus he used his own perfect and blameless self as the sacrifice to compensate for our screwups. It was such an overwhelming sacrifice that *every* screwup from past to present is now covered by the act. As Christains, it is no long necessary for us to follow specific sacrifice rules outlined in the OT because Jesus' self sacrifice pays for all of our screwups.

Jesus didn't the rewrite the OT. He fullfilled it. Because of this the OT and NT are partners in agreement with each other. Chapter one and chapter two of the same story. It's not a good idea to cut the book in half and throw out the first chapter by focusing exclusively on the second. You loose something by doing that.

I disagree, while Jesus didn't throw out the OT he certainly backed it up only enough not to be stoned immediately if not sooner. He also managed to contradict it without being disrespectful, turn the other cheek et al. If you read the NT as standalone you get a wonderful rich story that is shockingly interesting and sounds an awful lot like the other Great Masters. Then read the OT as a seperate entity and you will not feel like they compliment each other at all. To be honest the OT is probably the most brutal of the Great Books, even the wars in the Mahabarata do not show the cruelty to ones enemy that the OT does.... yet Jesus says love your enemy... I understand Adex that it is something you believe in so getting a 3rd person perspective for you will be difficult at best or damn near impossible, but think of it this way. Jesus was a Great Master, embodiment of God, he came to teach a message to the people of an area, the people in this area are both being repressed and their history is certainly violent and their religious beliefs are extremely rigid and those who go against the teaching are summarily stoned to death (insert Monty Python "he said Jehova" skit). So how does he manage to stay alie long enough to plant the seed of understanding and love... he obviously learns the OT, and uses it to make points, then quickly takes that point and turns it into a teaching that has nothing at all to do with the OT. Jesus's teachings, the ones that made people follow him were his own, not a regurgitation of a "helicoptor manual", he simply didn't want to die before he got his word out.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » August 17, 2004, 5:48 pm

I like the Old Testament god much better than that pachouli-scented hippy-liberal commie-pinko Jesus. More fire, brimstone, smiting, and plagues please!

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » August 17, 2004, 6:34 pm

The sooner you realize religion is a sham, the sooner you'll have more free time on Sundays and the less you will stress worrying about the afterlife.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » August 17, 2004, 6:50 pm

I am all for church time on Sundays, keeps it nice and quiet when we go shopping.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » August 17, 2004, 7:51 pm

If there was no church on Sundays, then the Cracker Barrels will fill up with crackers too soon! How would I survive in Tallahassee or Gainesville during football season?!?

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » August 17, 2004, 7:56 pm

masteen wrote:If there was no church on Sundays, then the Cracker Barrels will fill up with crackers too soon! How would I survive in Tallahassee or Gainesville during football season?!?

There wouldn't be a Catholics vs Convicts (Notre Dame vs Miami) rivalry either!

Markulas · Post by **Markulas** » August 17, 2004, 10:41 pm

Reminds me that Christians shouldn't even be afraid of WMD's because according to the bible thats not how the world ends. I could picture some terrorist blowing up the largest nuclear bomb and Jesus going, "WTF, thats not how its suppose to end".

On a rather more serious note, it's really too bad religion is such a key issue in the election this year. /sadface