Greg Maddux

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » August 11, 2004, 12:18 pm

This is an athlete I really like. His passion for the game, how he is obviously having fun.. and not focusing on himself or on money like so many pro athletes these days. 300 wins is huge (and yeah even I who am not a huge baseball fan know this) and the way he did it is admirable. His ego is small, he never puts himself over his team.. and he not only seems to enjoy the games but also the time in between.

This is a good read for those of you who haven't read it yet. I sure wish there were more athletes like Maddux around.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/w ... index.html

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » August 11, 2004, 1:02 pm

He did kind of screw himself and the Braves because he has a piece of shit agent like Scott Boras.....he should still be in Atlanta. He ended up signing with the Cubs for what the Braves would have payed him.

That being said, the guy is one of the most humble players in the era of greed that you may ever see. The only player I could compare him to in terms of humility is Dale Murphy. It was good to see him get number 300 even if i did gag seeing him in a Cubs uni.

There really is no comparison between Maddux and any of the other pitchers from the last 20 years. He is simply the best. There may be better arms....but he is quite possibly the best pitcher in baseball history.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » August 11, 2004, 1:04 pm

Maddux is worthy of note because he isn't a power pitcher. IMO, that takes more skill than power pitching.

Skill level required:

1. Finesse
2. Power
3. Knuckle

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » August 11, 2004, 1:05 pm

Yah as a very limited baseball fan I would much rather watch somebody like Maddux than a pure power pitcher. So much more fun.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » August 11, 2004, 2:34 pm

Maddux is definitely my favorite pitcher ever. He gets a bum rap for not pitching well in the postseason, but he has actually had some extremely good starts in the postseason. he has had some bad ones too for sure.

my favorite Maddux game was in the last great pennant race ever, in 1993 i think (Before wildcards). The Braves were like 7 or 9 games behind the SF Giants on August 1st. We had 6 games vs. the giants between 8/1 and the end of the season.

The Braves won 5 of those, gaining 4 games in the standings right there. Maddux had a god like start againts Bill Swift I think in San Francisco. Threw like 85 pitches. i have to look up the stats to make sure i am not embellishing it.

it was awesome.

Pherr the Dorf · Post by **Pherr the Dorf** » August 11, 2004, 3:55 pm

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote: There really is no comparison between Maddux and any of the other pitchers from the last 20 years. He is simply the best. There may be better arms....but he is quite possibly the best pitcher in baseball history.

Don't go crazy, he has been a very very dominant pitcher butttttttttt...
NAME W L PCT ERA IP BFP H K BB CG SH
Maddux, G. 300 170 .638 2.93 4115 13917 3781 2863 862 105 35
Ryan 324 292 .526 3.19 5386 22575 3923 5714 2795 222 61
Mathewson 373 188 .665 2.13 4780 19136 4218 2502 844 434 79
Johnson,W. 417 279 .599 2.17 5914 23749 4913 3509 1363 531 110
Spahn 363 245 .597 3.09 5243 21547 4830 2583 1434 382 63
Koufax 165 87 .655 2.76 2324 9497 1754 2396 817 137 40
Young 509 316 .617 2.63 7356 30058 7092 2803 1217 749 76

His name fits in that short list comfortably, but to say he is better then Walter Johnson is absolutely absurd, the Big train will always be known as the greatest of all time until someone comes along and can match those numbers. After that you have to give the nod to Cy Young, solely because he had to win all those games himself, no closers coming in when he was gassed in the 7th, 825 decisions, 749 complete games, that is sick sick sick, from there we have no clue what Koufax would have done, but he had the skills, but I leave him out because we just don't know, you can mix Maddux's name in with Warren Spahn, Nolan Ryan (for totally opposite reasons and similar success, tho Ryan had far worse teams around him which killed his win/loss numbers) and Christy Matthewson. Great, yes, most dominant in recent times, sure, but give the Big Train and Denton True Young their props!

UGHHHHHH at the formatting shit, I will fix that later if I can figure out how

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » August 11, 2004, 4:08 pm

Pherr the Dorf wrote:
Maddux, G. 300 170 .638 2.93 4115 13917 3781 2863 862 105 35
Ryan 324 292 .526 3.19 5386 22575 3923 5714 2795 222 61
Mathewson 373 188 .665 2.13 4780 19136 4218 2502 844 434 79
Johnson,W. 417 279 .599 2.17 5914 23749 4913 3509 1363 531 110
Spahn 363 245 .597 3.09 5243 21547 4830 2583 1434 382 63
Koufax 165 87 .655 2.76 2324 9497 1754 2396 817 137 40
Young 509 316 .617 2.63 7356 30058 7092 2803 1217 749 76

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » August 11, 2004, 4:54 pm

It is tough to compare dead ball era versus the live ball era. Maddux has the biggest differential between his ERA and the league ERA in the history of baseball. That is the best indicator you can have of the dominance of a pitcher.

Go back and look at the runs scored leaguewide when Mathewson and Johnson were pitching. Maddux could well have also racked up a shit ton more wins if he pitched in another time. They used 4 man rotations early on and that would have bought him another 10+ starts a year. That would equate to another 6 wins a year for 17 years. Would put him well up over 400 wins....and with his pitching style it would not really affect him like it would a power pitcher.

Vetiria · Post by **Vetiria** » August 11, 2004, 5:10 pm

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/s ... id=1853560

A good article comparing him to other pitchers of this era and previous eras.

Pherr the Dorf · Post by **Pherr the Dorf** » August 11, 2004, 5:34 pm

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:It is tough to compare dead ball era versus the live ball era. Maddux has the biggest differential between his ERA and the league ERA in the history of baseball. That is the best indicator you can have of the dominance of a pitcher.

Go back and look at the runs scored leaguewide when Mathewson and Johnson were pitching. Maddux could well have also racked up a shit ton more wins if he pitched in another time. They used 4 man rotations early on and that would have bought him another 10+ starts a year. That would equate to another 6 wins a year for 17 years. Would put him well up over 400 wins....and with his pitching style it would not really affect him like it would a power pitcher.

Once again, no releivers, Maddux benifited OMGIAMRETARDEDCAUSEALOTISTWOWORDS by not having to pitch the 8th and 9th innings when pitches slow down and you are more likely to get hit, the big train had 531 complete games, 110 of which were shutouts. Over 21 years Walter Johnson had 661 starts or 31.7 a year, Maddux over 18 years comes out to a cool 31.7 also. The difference in league era is about 1 point over that span, so their era's are a push granted, but the Big Train's numbers are clearly a step above Maddux's. Also Note, 2000 more innings piched, that's half of Maddux's total innings ever

Pherr the Dorf · Post by **Pherr the Dorf** » August 11, 2004, 6:16 pm

Thanks and btw BFP is batters faced

XunilTlatoani · Post by **XunilTlatoani** » August 11, 2004, 6:43 pm

There ya go (just use an html table)

<TABLE BORDER=1>
<TR><TD>NAME <TD>W <TD>L <TD>PCT <TD>ERA <TD>IP <TD>BFP <TD>H <TD>K <TD>BB <TD>CG <TD>SH</TR>
<TR><TD>Maddux, G. <TD>300 <TD>170 <TD>.638 <TD>2.93 <TD>4115 <TD>13917 <TD>3781 <TD>2863 <TD>862 <TD>105 <TD>35</TR>
<TR><TD>Ryan <TD>324 <TD>292 <TD>.526 <TD>3.19 <TD>5386 <TD>22575 <TD>3923 <TD>5714 <TD>2795 <TD>222 <TD>61</TR>
<TR><TD>Mathewson <TD>373 <TD>188 <TD>.665 <TD>2.13 <TD>4780 <TD>19136 <TD>4218 <TD>2502 <TD>844 <TD>434 <TD>79</TR>
<TR><TD>Johnson,W. <TD>417 <TD>279 <TD>.599 <TD>2.17 <TD>5914 <TD>23749 <TD>4913 <TD>3509 <TD>1363 <TD>531 <TD>110</TR>
<TR><TD>Spahn <TD>363 <TD>245 <TD>.597 <TD>3.09 <TD>5243 <TD>21547 <TD>4830 <TD>2583 <TD>1434 <TD>382 <TD>63</TR>
<TR><TD>Koufax <TD>165 <TD>87<TD> .655<TD> 2.76 <TD>2324<TD> 9497 <TD>1754 <TD>2396<TD> 817 <TD>137 <TD>40</TR>
<TR><TD>Young <TD>509 <TD>316 <TD>.617 <TD>2.63<TD> 7356<TD>30058 <TD>7092 <TD>2803<TD> 1217 <TD>749<TD> 76</TR>
</TABLE>

As far as my take, you can't compare apples to oranges. The game has changed so much in the past century. Walter Johnson and Cy Young were the greatest pitchers of their time. Greg Maddux, etc. are the greatest pitchers of our time. End of discussion in my mind.

Trek · Post by **Trek** » August 12, 2004, 12:53 am

I will always be a Nolan Ryan fan, not taking away from Maddux at all as he is probably the best pitcher I have seen.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » August 12, 2004, 10:46 am

But Pherr, Walter Johnson didnt pitch with a juiced ball (and it is juiced), against juiced players, in juiced ballparks.

Wrigley Field is a hitters park. Atlanta Fulton County Stadium was a hitters park. Hell he even threw a shutout at Coors once I think