Orange Alert

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » August 4, 2004, 9:27 pm

well its a win-win for the righties. they get their pork barrel homeland defense projects and when there are no attacks they can say that they are doing such a fantastic job, and if there are attacks they can blame the democrats and get more money to waste.

Eleani · Post by **Eleani** » August 5, 2004, 2:00 am

I honestly think that if you really feel that the US is going to stop a terrorist attack of the same proportions at 9/11 you most likely also believe in the tooth fairy and Santa. There were too many signs easily disregarded over the past 20 years. And I'm sure Osama and his little buddies know exactly what they're doing. In a few years, perhaps 5 or maybe as many as 10, we'll slowly let down our guard. Like an obese old fart settling into his chair after porking himself on 6 helpings of mama's meatloaf, we're gonna get comfortable and let our guard down sooner or later... and that's when it'll happen again. Its almost inevitable, which is a very saddening thing in my opinion.

They can toss on alert after alert, but we've seen how old some of the info that prompted this alert was, I can't imagine their reflexes are going to get much faster.

I do hope I am wrong, but this is the grim reality I see.

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » August 5, 2004, 8:56 am

Who was it that posted the timetable of terrorist-related activity in the run-up to the election a few months back? I can't be bothered to trawl for it but wasn't it around now that the terror alert level was due to be raised according to those predictions?

Truant · Post by **Truant** » August 5, 2004, 10:58 am

I'm tired of them raising the level every single holiday weekend. It's fucking killing my income.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » August 5, 2004, 11:28 am

vn_Tanc wrote:Who was it that posted the timetable of terrorist-related activity in the run-up to the election a few months back? I can't be bothered to trawl for it but wasn't it around now that the terror alert level was due to be raised according to those predictions?

well the New Republic did write an article in June saying that a Pakistani intelligence official had said the US Government was pressuring them to announce the arrest of terrorists near the Democratic Convention.

Lo and behold hours before Kerry's speech they did. and the domino effect has been that we have info leading to this past weekend's orange alert.

i'm gonna look for the sources so i'm not talking out my ass. more later.

The New Republic 7/19/04 edition wrote:A third source, an official who works under ISI's director, Lieutenant General Ehsan ul-Haq, informed tnr that the Pakistanis "have been told at every level that apprehension or killing of HVTs before [the] election is [an] absolute must." What's more, this source claims that Bush administration officials have told their Pakistani counterparts they have a date in mind for announcing this achievement: "The last ten days of July deadline has been given repeatedly by visitors to Islamabad and during [ul-Haq's] meetings in Washington." Says McCormack: "I'm aware of no such comment." But according to this ISI official, a White House aide told ul-Haq last spring that "it would be best if the arrest or killing of [any] HVT were announced on twenty-six, twenty-seven, or twenty-eight July"--the first three days of the Democratic National Convention in Boston.

I"m happy that terrorists are being arrested and we are getting their information. I am not really that knowledgable on the quality of journalism from the New Republic, but they pretty much predicted this.

obviously if i say it is going to rain, and it rains, that doesn't mean that I made it rain, but it is food for thought.

Thess · Post by **Thess** » August 5, 2004, 11:37 am

I haven't checked the legitimacy of this site but...

http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20040719&s=aaj071904

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » August 5, 2004, 11:42 am

also from the follow up article where The New Republic analyzes their "prediction".

"Ghailani wasn't apprehended on July 29 at all, but rather four days earlier."

http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20040816&s=aaj081604

but it was announced on 7/29 - the date of Kerry's speech. PErhaps this is too soon to publicize the arrest?

The linked New Republic article above wrote:Though there is no policy governing how long to keep such arrests secret, standard intelligence practices dictate that the capture should not have been made public until investigators had finished with Ghailani (and the laptop and computer disks he had been captured with). Indeed, Ghailani may still talk, but some current and former American officials fear that, by broadcasting his name around the world, the Pakistanis have reduced the value of the intelligence that interrogators can extract from him. "Now, anything that he was involved in is being shredded, burned, and thrown in a river," a senior counterterrorism official told the Los Angeles Times. "We have to assume anyone affiliated with this guy is on the run ... when, usually, we can get great stuff as long as we can keep it quiet." Adds former CIA operative Robert Baer: "It makes no sense to make the announcement then. Presumably, everything [Al Qaeda] does is compartmented. By announcing to everybody in the world that we have this guy, and he is talking, you have to assume that you shoot tactics. To keep these guys off-balance, a lot of this stuff should be kept in secret. You get no benefit from announcing an arrest like this. You always want to get these guys when they are on vacation, when they are not expecting you."

Anyway, George Bush isn't going to politicize the war on terror, so nobody should worry about it!!

Anyway, the New Republic is a liberal magazine. Not sure how much it is commentary vs. journalism. IE whether it is like Mother Jones or the mirror image of the American Spectator, or a more serious magazine like The New Yorker.

Metanis · Post by **Metanis** » August 5, 2004, 12:12 pm

kyoukan wrote:well its a win-win for the righties. they get their pork barrel homeland defense projects and when there are no attacks they can say that they are doing such a fantastic job, and if there are attacks they can blame the democrats and get more money to waste.

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Kooky, I pasted the preamble to the US Constitution here. The bold part is one of the LEAST ambiguous directives in the entire document.

Do not mistake the anti-Bush sentiment among Democrats as anti-defense. While the Michael Moore wing of the party may hate the military, the vast majority of Democrats support a strong defense. In fact, if John Kerry is elected there will likely be an even stronger emphasis on the military and defense because he will be under huge pressure to appear "tough" on terror.

Xzion · Post by **Xzion** » August 5, 2004, 12:25 pm

Metanis wrote:
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
.

I guess your president forgot about that part.
"Anyone who is willing to sacrifice liberty in the name of security deserves neither of those" or a quote similar by Franklen

Splatter · Post by **Splatter** » August 5, 2004, 12:28 pm

Franklin's quote is this:

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » August 5, 2004, 1:33 pm

Truant wrote:I'm tired of them raising the level every single holiday weekend. It's fucking killing my income.

get a job working where you get paid extra for higher alert levels and you're income will be padded!

My old roommate worked for the State, and he got to move to a "bunker" if the alert level reached a certain point. Then he also got a sort of "hazard" pay as well.