Russia Speaks again on AQ/Saddam

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » June 30, 2004, 4:23 pm

http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribun ... ing_4.html

Russia: Ties to Saddam loyalists give Al Qaida access to WMD

SPECIAL TO WORLD TRIBUNE.COM
Wednesday, June 30, 2004
MOSCOW – A senior Russian official said Al Qaida's alliance with members of the former regime of Saddam Hussein could provide the Islamic movement with access to WMD and other sensitive material. The official said Al Qaida operatives would probably obtain WMD components.

"It is obvious that Iraq has really become attractive to all kinds of terrorists, and Al Qaida feels quite comfortable in Iraq," Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Yuriy Fedotov said. "Therefore, the threat that components and materials, which possibly remain in Iraq, can find their way into the hands of international terrorists, is quite high."

Fedotov said Al Qaida has developed a significant presence in Iraq in wake of the toppling of the Saddam regime.

He said Saddam was not linked to Al Qaida, Middle East Newsline reported.

"One can hardly maintain that the former Iraqi regime was linked to Al Qaida," Fedotov told the Interfax news agency on June 24.

The Russian official said Russia was concerned by the prospect that WMD remains in Iraq. He did not provide further details.

"The task of finally clarifying Iraq's disarmament dossier remains topical," Fedotov said.

The United States has also expressed concern that Al Qaida, particularly Abu Mussib Al Zarqawi, could gain access to what officials said could be an arsenal of hundreds shells filled with sarin or mustard gas. Dozens of such shells have been found by U.S. troops over the last year.

"We know just through historical example that these groups have a thirst for weapons of mass destruction," Defense Department spokesman Lawrence di Rita said on June 24. "We knew before the war that Zarqawi was involved in Ansar Al Islam, and Ansar Al Islam was very much involved in the production of at least toxic poisons, if not chemical weapons."

Thess · Post by **Thess** » June 30, 2004, 4:29 pm

That's what happens when we take over a country with hostile anti-westerner countries surrounding it, that was sealed off to the world and don't protect the borders. GG USA!!!!!!!111!1one!11!

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » June 30, 2004, 4:30 pm

So that "article" says basically nothing with a lot of words. Actually, it does contradict the former report of Russia knowing of connections between Saddam and AQ. Otherwise, it says that Iraq is a hotspot for terrorists right now (durrr) and that they're worried that the hypothetical WMDs or components for making them may or may not fall into their hands.

Give me my 2 minutes of my life back.

Now.

Forthe · Post by **Forthe** » June 30, 2004, 4:41 pm

Well if Al Qaida does have access to WMD in Iraq they are certainly taking their sweet time using it with 140,000 US soldiers within reach. Convenient and easy targets with high political value.

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » June 30, 2004, 4:43 pm

Russian intel officials express concern about WMD getting to AQ through old school Iraq connections.

Dregor however thinks their intel is bullshit.

Dregor's opinion vs. the former KGB.

Thanks for sharing.

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » June 30, 2004, 4:44 pm

Great point Forthe.

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » June 30, 2004, 4:47 pm

Adex_Xeda wrote:Russian intel officials express concern about WMD getting to AQ through old school Iraq connections.

Dregor however thinks their intel is bullshit.

Dregor's opinion vs. the former KGB.

Thanks for sharing.

Pardon me for being cynical, but this is the same Russian intelligence that just was it last week purported to knowing about a link between Saddam and AQ and now a member of the Russian government is saying

"One can hardly maintain that the former Iraqi regime was linked to Al Qaida," Fedotov told the Interfax news agency on June 24.

so yea, I'm a little dubious at best about any form of "intelligence" being circulated in the world right now. Intelligence seems to be in short supply these days.

And you're welcome for my sharing. You were a very good brick wall.

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » June 30, 2004, 4:52 pm

If that is your quote, then you missed the point of the article.

Russia expresses concern. Saddam's old setup provided fertile opportunities for WMD aquisition by AQ.

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » June 30, 2004, 4:56 pm

Adex_Xeda wrote:If that is your quote, then you missed the point of the article.

Russia expresses concern. Saddam's old setup provided fertile opportunities for WMD aquisition by AQ.

I express concerns that aliens have replaced all the citizens of Peru and are planning a hostile takeover of Disney. So what? The quote was to show just how much weight I'm putting in Russian intelligence atm. Do you even read what I post or just grab the coles notes version.

Russia is concerned. Yay. Thanks for bringing that to our attention. Shouldn't you be in church?

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » June 30, 2004, 4:57 pm

The difference between you being concerned by aliens and Russia acting upon suspicion of nuclear terrorists rests on credentials.

You lack them. They have them.

The appropriate response to reading this should be.

Hmm, interesting and move on.

Rather it strikes against you personal opinion so you feel the need to attack me.

Quite disconnected.

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » June 30, 2004, 4:59 pm

If you think that reading an article should only result in "Hmm, intereseting" and moving on, then well.. hell. I'm not surprised at all. Forget it, continue on with your land of make-believe.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » June 30, 2004, 5:02 pm

Erh Adex first of all don't get all crazy and start talking nuclear here. They were talking sarin gas, that is NOT a nuke.

Secondly, either I must be blind or my A's in English are failing me.. but what I got out of that article was that there was no link between al Qaeda and Saddam, but now that the country has been thrown into chaos the terrorist who moved in AFTER the invasion might get their hands on alleged WMDs.

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » June 30, 2004, 5:04 pm

Only A's? You deserve an A+ for cutting to the chase like that!

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » June 30, 2004, 5:10 pm

Wait, hold on Kel.

I agree with your reading of that article.

The Russian official brings forth the idea from a position outside of the Bush administration that the presense of WMD in Iraq remains unanswered.

If the WMD didn't exist, then the russians wouldn't be worried about the leftovers being scooped up post invasion.

Is this proof of WMD? nope

Is this a non bush source expressing concern about the WMD being there? yes

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » June 30, 2004, 5:15 pm

Thess wrote:That's what happens when we take over a country with hostile anti-westerner countries surrounding it, that was sealed off to the world and don't protect the borders. GG USA!!!!!!!111!1one!11!

Please leave the US. Go live in Iraq for a few years then have the stupidity to complain. Jesus, you're as bad as Kyo sometimes. Why are you such a bitter bitch? What happened to you to cause this? /sigh

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » June 30, 2004, 5:18 pm

I like how any woman that doesn't think the same thoughts as Midnyte is a bitter bitch. Classy.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » June 30, 2004, 5:20 pm

thess is just on the rag or needs to be fucked or hasn't been fucked enough.

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » June 30, 2004, 5:21 pm

Her man obviously needs to get her pregnant so that she can stay home and cook and clean and be there for her man after he gets home from his job.

obviously.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » June 30, 2004, 5:23 pm

Dregor Thule wrote:I like how any woman that doesn't think the same thoughts as Midnyte is a bitter bitch. Classy.

Ummm nope sorry. I'm only aware of two actual women on these boards and I find them both miserable bitches most times. I also find you and many other males on these boards miserable cunts. It has nothing to do with the sex and everything to do with the attitude. I despise habitual negativity.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » June 30, 2004, 5:25 pm

Adex, you are correct. The Russians clearly don't think that Saddam had gotten rid of the materials mandated by the 1991 treaty.

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » June 30, 2004, 5:29 pm

I guess we can add misogynist to the list of Mid's charming personality traits. It fits in well with the Homophobia, Racism, Fundimentalism, Ignorance, Close Mindedness, Idolatry, Bigotry, and Zealotry. Oh, and he has that MBA that makes him a well rounded individual!

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » June 30, 2004, 5:31 pm

yeah I can just picture him in his short sleeve dress shirt and assistant manager wal-mart id badge wallowing in lower class mediocrity while fuming about liberals and getting angry every time a black guy doesn't call him sir.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » June 30, 2004, 5:34 pm

Jice Virago wrote:I guess we can add misogynist to the list of Mid's charming personality traits. It fits in well with the Homophobia, Racism, Fundimentalism, Ignorance, Close Mindedness, Idolatry, Bigotry, and Zealotry. Oh, and he has that MBA that makes him a well rounded individual!

Sure, why not. Yes, I can definitely see how getting disgusted at people who have such a negative bitter outlook on life, can be read as being a sexist. Uh-huh. Boy, you guys can spin. I think you should all work on Michael Moore's next propaganda film.

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » June 30, 2004, 5:35 pm

Tom: The guy made a million dollars! Y’know, I had an idea like that once.

Peter: Really? What was it, Tom?

Tom: Well, all right. It was a Jump to Conclusions mat. You see, it would be this mat that you would put on the floor and it would have different conclusions written on it that you could jump to.

I can so see Midnyte being Tom.

Post by **Sylvus** » June 30, 2004, 5:36 pm

Jice Virago wrote:Oh, and he has that MBA that makes him a well rounded individual!

If I'm not mistaken it wasn't a masters, but a BS in BA.

Hesten · Post by **Hesten** » June 30, 2004, 6:13 pm

Kelshara wrote:Erh Adex first of all don't get all crazy and start talking nuclear here. They were talking sarin gas, that is NOT a nuke.

Secondly, either I must be blind or my A's in English are failing me.. but what I got out of that article was that there was no link between al Qaeda and Saddam, but now that the country has been thrown into chaos the terrorist who moved in AFTER the invasion might get their hands on alleged WMDs.

Lets see, if thats correct, there were no WMDs before the war, and there are now.

Logical conclusion:
USA brought WMDs into Iraq, then lost them, and the terrorist can get to them now.

Right?

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » June 30, 2004, 8:16 pm

Did I ever draw that conclusion? Not at all. I stand by my original viewpoint when it comes to WMDs in Iraq: There is ZERO proof of WMDs there. Russians mumbling about it proves as much as Powell's powerpoint slides did. Nada.

Now, read my post again and see what I said.

Sirton · Post by **Sirton** » July 1, 2004, 11:49 am

K......theyve already found some...and anyway the whole thing isnt about that at all...ITS THAT WERE NEVER ACCOUNTED FOR.

Truant · Post by **Truant** » July 1, 2004, 12:03 pm

Sirton wrote:K......theyve already found some...and anyway the whole thing isnt about that at all...ITS THAT WERE NEVER ACCOUNTED FOR.

no, that was just the most marketable excuse!

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » July 1, 2004, 12:10 pm

Truant wrote:
Sirton wrote:K......theyve already found some...and anyway the whole thing isnt about that at all...ITS THAT WERE NEVER ACCOUNTED FOR.
no, that was just the most marketable excuse!

Ummm no. That is what the UN voted for unanimously. Long before the war happened. It was spelled out at the end of Desert Storm too. The expectations were laid out. It's you people with short term memories who continue to perpetrate these lies. You are the liars. You disgust me.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » July 1, 2004, 12:12 pm

I'll wear your disgust as a badge of honor and laugh at you calling us liars

masteen · Post by **masteen** » July 1, 2004, 12:15 pm

That's the real problem, Truant. The administration had already decided that they were going to war, and was just fishing for reasons the people would accept to do it. Classic example of the tail wagging the dog.

I agree that Iraq was not complying with the 1991 treaty. I agree that Saddam was a right bastard who was thumbing his nose at the UN. I agree that sending in troops was prolly the right thing to do.

I do not agree with the way they went about it. I do not agree with the fact that we left Afghanistan, one of the most fertile terrorist breeding ground on the planet, in shambles in our rush to get Hussein.

I really do not like the fact that, after they had begun the Iraq war, they decided not to follow the recommendations of the Pentagon, and pinched pennies on materials and manpower for the military while letting their corporate cronies spend our tax dollars at will.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » July 1, 2004, 12:16 pm

Kelshara wrote:I'll wear your disgust as a badge of honor and laugh at you calling us liars

I expect nothing less from you.

Truant · Post by **Truant** » July 1, 2004, 12:19 pm

masteen wrote:That's the real problem, Truant. The administration had already decided that they were going to war, and was just fishing for reasons the people would accept to do it. Classic example of the tail wagging the dog.

I agree that Iraq was not complying with the 1991 treaty. I agree that Saddam was a right bastard who was thumbing his nose at the UN. I agree that sending in troops was prolly the right thing to do.

I do not agree with the way they went about it. I do not agree with the fact that we left Afghanistan, one of the most fertile terrorist breeding ground on the planet, in shambles in our rush to get Hussein.

I really do not like the fact that, after they had begun the Iraq war, they decided not to follow the recommendations of the Pentagon, and pinched pennies on materials and manpower for the military while letting their corporate cronies spend our tax dollars at will.

I agree completely

Thank you for not being ravenous enough to reply to me thoughtfully! Were I still in your area, i'd buy you a drink!

Sirton · Post by **Sirton** » July 1, 2004, 12:22 pm

We and others sold it to him....we knew they had them.....ALL he had to do was show he destroyed them here.....we have them buried here.....they were stolen here.....we used them here.....We gave them here........

It is about accountability which WAS STATED OVER AND OVER UP TO THE WAR, because we COULD NOT ignore this fact ANYMORE AFTER 911 because we knew AQ and some others were trying to get there hands on this material...AND WE NEEDED THOSE WMDs to be accounted for!!!!(what would happen if something was used and we knew all this info that we did and did nothing to protect ourselves...You talk about revolt)....I WATCHED ALMOST EVERY SPEECH LIVE AND NOT MANIPULATED BY THE MEDIA....This is stuff that was going on for 12 years after the first war with Iraq. If he could of accounted for them he may still be in power WHICH WOULD SUCK.

In my book his mass graves and mass genocide..like to the swamp arabs....was good enough reason and could of been used as a only reason for me to go in with military force and remove his lame ass. Miny Hitlers need to removed from power by all means available.

Forthe · Post by **Forthe** » July 1, 2004, 12:29 pm

Sirton wrote:We and others sold it to him....we knew they had them.....ALL he had to do was show he destroyed them here.....we have them buried here.....they were stolen here.....we used them here.....We gave them here........

It is about accountability which WAS STATED OVER AND OVER UP TO THE WAR, because we COULD NOT ignore this fact ANYMORE AFTER 911 because we knew AQ and some others were trying to get there hands on this material...AND WE NEEDED THOSE WMDs to be accounted for!!!!(what would happen if something was used and we knew all this info that we did and did nothing to protect ourselves...You talk about revolt)....I WATCHED ALMOST EVERY SPEECH LIVE AND NOT MANIPULATED BY THE MEDIA....This is stuff that was going on for 12 years after the first war with Iraq. If he could of accounted for them he may still be in power WHICH WOULD SUCK.

In my book his mass graves and mass genocide..like to the swamp arabs....was good enough reason and could of been used as a only reason for me to go in with military force and remove his lame ass. Miny Hitlers need to removed from power by all means available.

Your high morals are all fine and good but you are full of shit. The US will support a ruthless dictator for the small price of an airbase (Uzbekistan).

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » July 1, 2004, 12:31 pm

AND WE NEEDED THOSE WMDs to be accounted for!!!!

Yet you couldn't wait for Hans Blix to finish his efforts to account for them.
Uh huh.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » July 1, 2004, 12:36 pm

It is about accountability which WAS STATED OVER AND OVER UP TO THE WAR, because we COULD NOT ignore this fact ANYMORE AFTER 911 because we knew AQ and some others were trying to get there hands on this material...

Of course your little war has helped the terrorists get closer to these alleged WMDs.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » July 1, 2004, 12:44 pm

Kelshara wrote:
It is about accountability which WAS STATED OVER AND OVER UP TO THE WAR, because we COULD NOT ignore this fact ANYMORE AFTER 911 because we knew AQ and some others were trying to get there hands on this material...
Of course your little war has helped the terrorists get closer to these alleged WMDs.

No Our little war got all the terrorist in one place its eaiser to kill them that way.

archeiron · Post by **archeiron** » July 1, 2004, 12:49 pm

Cartalas wrote:
Kelshara wrote:
It is about accountability which WAS STATED OVER AND OVER UP TO THE WAR, because we COULD NOT ignore this fact ANYMORE AFTER 911 because we knew AQ and some others were trying to get there hands on this material...
Of course your little war has helped the terrorists get closer to these alleged WMDs.

No Our little war got all the terrorist in one place its eaiser to kill them that way.

I am not convinced that you believe your last statement. It isn't accurate. It is reasonable to assume that the chaos in Iraq will give opportunities to new terrorists that weren't there before. This is a fact of life that we have to accept in an effort to make Iraq a free and safe place; sadly, I don't think we are doing the best job that we can to rebuild Iraq and maintain the peace.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » July 1, 2004, 12:53 pm

archeiron wrote:
Cartalas wrote:
Kelshara wrote:
It is about accountability which WAS STATED OVER AND OVER UP TO THE WAR, because we COULD NOT ignore this fact ANYMORE AFTER 911 because we knew AQ and some others were trying to get there hands on this material...
Of course your little war has helped the terrorists get closer to these alleged WMDs.

No Our little war got all the terrorist in one place its eaiser to kill them that way.
I am not convinced that you believe your last statement. It isn't accurate. It is reasonable to assume that the chaos in Iraq will give opportunities to new terrorists that weren't there before. This is a fact of life that we have to accept in an effort to make Iraq a free and safe place; sadly, I don't think we are doing the best job that we can to rebuild Iraq and maintain the peace.

I agree I dont think we are doing the best job we can or being allowed to.

Its kind of hard to build Hospitals, and shit while dodging rockets.

archeiron · Post by **archeiron** » July 1, 2004, 12:58 pm

Cartalas wrote:
archeiron wrote:
Cartalas wrote:
Kelshara wrote:
It is about accountability which WAS STATED OVER AND OVER UP TO THE WAR, because we COULD NOT ignore this fact ANYMORE AFTER 911 because we knew AQ and some others were trying to get there hands on this material...
Of course your little war has helped the terrorists get closer to these alleged WMDs.

No Our little war got all the terrorist in one place its eaiser to kill them that way.
I am not convinced that you believe your last statement. It isn't accurate. It is reasonable to assume that the chaos in Iraq will give opportunities to new terrorists that weren't there before. This is a fact of life that we have to accept in an effort to make Iraq a free and safe place; sadly, I don't think we are doing the best job that we can to rebuild Iraq and maintain the peace.

I agree I dont think we are doing the best job we can or being allowed to.

Its kind of hard to build Hospitals, and shit while dodging rockets.

I don't believe that we are doing the best job planning and overseeing our plan independent of the circumstances surrounding the chaos in Iraq (bullets and rockets flying).

Our plan must account for (bullets and rockets flying) and still produce results. We can do better, even under the circumstances.

Don't you agree?

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » July 1, 2004, 1:00 pm

archeiron wrote:
Cartalas wrote:
archeiron wrote:
Cartalas wrote:
Kelshara wrote: Of course your little war has helped the terrorists get closer to these alleged WMDs.

No Our little war got all the terrorist in one place its eaiser to kill them that way.
I am not convinced that you believe your last statement. It isn't accurate. It is reasonable to assume that the chaos in Iraq will give opportunities to new terrorists that weren't there before. This is a fact of life that we have to accept in an effort to make Iraq a free and safe place; sadly, I don't think we are doing the best job that we can to rebuild Iraq and maintain the peace.

I agree I dont think we are doing the best job we can or being allowed to.

Its kind of hard to build Hospitals, and shit while dodging rockets.
I don't believe that we are doing the best job planning and overseeing our plan independent of the circumstances surrounding the chaos in Iraq (bullets and rockets flying).

Our plan must account for (bullets and rockets flying) and still produce results. We can do better, even under the circumstances.

Don't you agree?

Yes I do!

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » July 1, 2004, 3:09 pm

There is always better and always worse. But, constant negative criticism is counter-productive. Constructive criticism is what is needed. Nothing is ever all bad, when people act like that, the only people that will listen to you are other negative people. You just won't catch the ear of the rest.

Lynks · Post by **Lynks** » July 1, 2004, 3:29 pm

And being blind and ignore that past is much better? Get over it.

archeiron · Post by **archeiron** » July 1, 2004, 7:45 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:There is always better and always worse. But, constant negative criticism is counter-productive. Constructive criticism is what is needed. Nothing is ever all bad, when people act like that, the only people that will listen to you are other negative people. You just won't catch the ear of the rest.

As it happens, I am not constantly negative. This forum is a place for "discussion" (dissection) of political events; if that equates to negativity to you, then perhaps this isn't the right forum for you.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » July 1, 2004, 8:14 pm

archeiron wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:There is always better and always worse. But, constant negative criticism is counter-productive. Constructive criticism is what is needed. Nothing is ever all bad, when people act like that, the only people that will listen to you are other negative people. You just won't catch the ear of the rest.
As it happens, I am not constantly negative. This forum is a place for "discussion" (dissection) of political events; if that equates to negativity to you, then perhaps this isn't the right forum for you.

No this board is for bitter negativity. That is what is has always been about. You are probably right if you mean these boards are not for leveled headed debate.

Truant · Post by **Truant** » July 1, 2004, 9:43 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
archeiron wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:There is always better and always worse. But, constant negative criticism is counter-productive. Constructive criticism is what is needed. Nothing is ever all bad, when people act like that, the only people that will listen to you are other negative people. You just won't catch the ear of the rest.
As it happens, I am not constantly negative. This forum is a place for "discussion" (dissection) of political events; if that equates to negativity to you, then perhaps this isn't the right forum for you.
No this board is for bitter negativity. That is what is has always been about. You are probably right if you mean these boards are not for leveled headed debate.

I would definately have to disagree with that.

Mplor · Post by **Mplor** » July 2, 2004, 1:42 am

I have to admit, Adex, that your title for this thread tricked me into thinking this was a "Saddam and al Qaeda really were allied against baseball, mom, and apple pie, honest!" thread.

So, unwittingly, I dive right in only to find it was a bait and switch, and it's really a "Saddam really did have one or two WMDs, honest!" thread.

Imagine my chagrin.

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » July 2, 2004, 11:31 am

Not my point at all.

The article I reference points out that Russian intel (a non Bush source) still is concerned about the presence of WMD in Iraq.