Popularity of Hockey and Soccer in the U.S.

Chmee · Post by **Chmee** » May 4, 2004, 2:57 pm

Read a couple of interesting blog posts lately speculating on why soccer and hockey aren't more popular in the U.S.

http://www.marginalrevolution.com/margi ... anada.html

http://cafehayek.typepad.com/hayek/2004 ... s_fut.html

Not sure how significant any of the possibilities thrown out actually are, but some interesting conjectures. Particularly the bit in the second thread where he thinks they have developed into more defensive games than they need to be (Xouqoa's post on the other thread about hockey being more of a grinding game now is what reminded me of these).

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » May 4, 2004, 3:22 pm

i think it is mostly cultural, and it takes a long time to change that.

most of the US (where humans actually live) does not have ponds and lakes safely frozen over for extended periods. so kids don't just go out and play hockey in all but the northernmost parts of the US, so you don't grow up loving the game having played it.

soccer really didnt exist in the country on a large scale before the 70s i think. Most people my age played soccer as a kid. I played it more than any other sport, but of course watched baseball, basketball, and football on TV cause there was no soccer on TV.

Soccer is one of my favorite sports to watch, and i am a growing hockey fan (thanks to the Thrashers).

i think as time passes you will see soccer continue to build into financial profitability, especially considering how popular it is among hispanics and their population dynamics, and rising socio-economic status. Football, Baseball, and to a lesser extent basketball, had limited competition for entertainment dollars for decades and firmly established themselves in the sports entertainment marketplace, which is extremely diverse and competitive in the US.

The other sports have had to come in and pick up the scraps as well as try to carve out some crossover fans from other sports. And that happens, but there is no reason to believe anything will supplant the NFL as the top sports league in the USA anytime in the near future.

but MLS should continue to steadily grow and hopefully maintain viability. The NHL has expanded successfully to areas of the US where children don't play hockey and enjoyed growth...but maybe unsustainable growth. The NBA has a bad product, but a very loyal core demographic. MLB has such cultural inertia that it is amazing it hasn't suffered for its mismanagement more severely - but it still might!

great topic btw Chmee. i would say that it is not fair to characterize soccer as also 'devolving' into thuggishness like hockey has with all the interference.

Just because the English Premier League plays a physical and sometimes less fluid brand of soccer doesn't mean the rest of the world does. Brazil has always been, and is still the premier soccer nation on the planet. THey play a completely wide-open, flamboyant, attacking style. I am happy that the US tends to try to play a hybridized South American / European style. If we could develope a lethal striker for our talented midfielders to latch on to, we'd be even more dangerous than we are now.

I can't wait for 2006, i'm already thinking about the parties i'm going to throw....if i am not in Germany myself that is!!

Post by **Xouqoa** » May 4, 2004, 3:31 pm

Hockey in the south is a fairly new thing, also. As teams like Atlanta, Nashville, Tampa Bay and Florida continue to improve, the fan following in the south will grow. I didn't even get into hockey until 10 years ago - I'd never seen it on TV until the Northstars moved to Dallas.

First hockey series I ever watched was the 95 Cup finals when the Wings were swept by the Devils.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 4, 2004, 3:39 pm

I played Soccer all of my youth and had a great time doing it but I only seem to watch Soccer during the world cup and then I really get into it for awhile.

As for hockey, I'll watch a game if it's in high definition. Hockey is one of the sports that really benefits from HDTV as you can follow the little puck much better and see more of the rink. (if the camermen are good)

Post by **Xouqoa** » May 4, 2004, 3:48 pm

Yeah, I played soccer for like 10 years growing up. I think it will increase in popularity within the next couple of generations.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » May 4, 2004, 3:51 pm

lockout '05?

Wulfran · Post by **Wulfran** » May 4, 2004, 4:47 pm

I do think some of the problem with hockey in the US stems from an image problem. People know that fighting is more common than in other professional sports and tend to judge the sport because of this. Incidents like the Bertuzzi-Moore incident help to reinforce the negativity via the sensationalism attached to the coverage, rather than admitting the rarity of the incident.

With regards to the alteration of the playstyle, and specifically the emphasis on the defensive style of the sport, I think that what the one article Chmee mentioned is on the mark that sound defensive play doesn't take as much talent, but it also ignores that it takes as much if not more effort from the athlete: they are anticipating/reacting to what the offensive player is doing. As well in the NHL's case I do feel expansion has been too rapid, in that it diluted the available talent pool and forced coaching staffs to fall back on a more defensive playstyle to try and be competative. The first article was also correct in that there is a reluctance by officials to call every infraction, because while they want to control the game, they don't want the penalties to decide it. And while I amnot a proponent of this mind set, I have some sympathy for it, especially without strong leadership from the league's head office to mandate tighter officiating.

And unfortunately as Sueven brings up, labour strife also impacts these sports. People have little sympathy for the problems of multi-millionaires, being paid enormous salaries to play a game they love...

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 4, 2004, 7:06 pm

No sport can afford a strike these days except the NFL which probably won't have one.

Hockey certainly can't afford a strike. It doesn't have enough popularity to survive one.

Crav · Post by **Crav** » May 4, 2004, 8:17 pm

I've never really been into hockey or soccer, but recently I've been playing Championship Manager 03-04 and I've really gotten into it. I am starting to see why so many people love soccer, and for me at least it's not so much the play-by-play action or anything like that, it's the way the sport is set up in Europe and the rest of the world. It's really so different from sports here in the U.S. where everything is so focused on regional TV markets. I also love the whole relagating and promotion system that the leagues have. I mean one season your dominating your division and the next your fighting for draws so that you won't finish in the bottom part of the higher division.

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » May 4, 2004, 11:24 pm

Winnow wrote:Hockey certainly can't afford a strike. It doesn't have enough popularity to survive one.

Or a national tv contract. Hockey players better realize what baseball players had to about 18 months ago, the party of signing contracts that can't be matched by shitty gate sales is over. Sadly, hockey doesn't even have one fifth of the revenue source, baseball players do just from cards and jerseys and the like. In other words, star players won't get 8 mil a year any longer since the league can't afford it. And to be honest, I don't blame them.

Soccer in america is still on the up and up. A lot of it has to do with every other country thinking they're better than us at it while it remains the world sport. My wife's really good friend married a man from Mexico and he and his children are huge soccer fans/players. There are many in similar situations and it will grow beyond immigrant recognition in this country.

Freddy Adu can't hurt either. NY's Giants Stadium sold nearly 40k seats for the game against DCtwo Saturday's ago. If they get half of that on a home Saturday, they're lucky. In addition, the kid is composed and obnoxiously talented on the field. He could help bring soccer more into the forfront. When I was young, it was Pele, and everyone practiced the ball over the head trick over and over again until they got it (just like in the movie Victory for those too young to have any idea what I'm talking about). it made a huge impact on American soccer then and another charismatic player could do it again.

Truant · Post by **Truant** » May 5, 2004, 5:00 am

A BIG bridge that soccer is going to have trouble crossing over, is television coverage. There is no room for commercials, and such no incentive for networks to carry a game. i can catch one on a regional fox sports channel during midday or replay overnight...but that's about.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » May 5, 2004, 11:33 am

well soccer is a proven money maker in Europe on television, but they probably charge rates that are thousands of times higher for the commericals before and at halftime.

ESPN has a MLS game on every saturday afternoon. Sometimes ABC carries it (season opener), and sometimes it gets pushed to ESPN2.

Most wednesdays ESPN will show a European match at 2:30 eastern. Especially with the Champions League pushing to a climax. Tune in today i think!

but soccer has proven to make money, but our market is obviously very different than Europe, but i think that at least shows advertisers that you can point to something to make them feel like investing, etc.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » May 5, 2004, 12:01 pm

I think one thing the MLS did horribly wrong was to import old big-name players from Europe. Those who were too old and not good enough to make major teams over there, but had name recognition. That is really no way to build up interest in a league imho. You need good players to make the game fun to watch.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » May 5, 2004, 12:20 pm

yeah, i dont think there are many of those now.

all the premier players in the league now are US born players developing for the National Team.

Landon Donovan, DeMarcus Beasley, Bobby Convey, Tim Howard etc.

then there are some pretty good latin players like Jaime Morena, and up until recently Marco Etcheverry - who though old, still played with a lot of skill.

the top paid players in the league now are American, and i think the league is really doing a great job of developing talented players.

Look how well we did in 2002, and we are only getting better. Donovan is 22 and really coming into his own, and this will be his last year in MLS I think =).

masteen · Post by **masteen** » May 5, 2004, 5:56 pm

Hockey has begun to suffer from the same problem as soccer: too much boring action in the middle of the field, not enough action around the goals.

I think that hockey needs to come down much harder on anyone who uses their stick as a weapon, but ease up on people who simply drop the gloves and have a go.

They need to eliminate the bullshit faggotry that is slowing down the game. If I wanted to see grown men in funny uniforms grope each other, I'd go to a gay bar.

Keverian FireCry · Post by **Keverian FireCry** » May 24, 2004, 5:17 pm

omg Puck is the coolest hero ever

Siji · Post by **Siji** » May 26, 2004, 2:46 pm

Personal thoughts..

MLB = The player strike killed baseball. More and more people simply don't care anymore. Besides that, it's boring as hell to watch. Third only to Golf and Tennis.. As mentioned above, it's pretty hard to have sympathy or feel anything but disgust at millionaires complaining about not being paid enough for a game people used to play professionally for the love of the game.

NHL = People don't understand all the rules that stop the action. There's too many stops of action. People understand there's a puck and the goal is to get it into the net. That's about it. They've heard about all the fights, but these days, you never see any. Where's the excitement? (Speaking about public in general - I love Hockey myself) I'm not sure about all the details of the strike, but I know it's not just about money. A friend of mine who's more into it all than I am feels pretty strongly that there'll be a strike. Which sucks.

NFL = The rules are simple to understand. It's guys trying to kill each other. Public's voyeuristic desires are fulfilled. (I hate football)

AFL = I went to my first arena football game the other day.. I couldn't help but think I was watching a fooseball table. I wouldn't even rank it up with college or high school football. It was just weird.

NBA = Like football. Rules are simple, ball constantly moving. Tricky moves by players are fun to watch.

MLS = It's the game you played as a kid, maybe. Big field, not many players, kick a ball around. Harder to tell the skilled players from the unskilled players like say basketball, thus harder to get excited about it. That, and the freak announcers screaming 'score!' for 90 seconds. As for no room for TV commercials, they'll just do what they did with hockey and put pauses into the game for TV breaks.