Gas Prices

Truant · Post by **Truant** » February 27, 2004, 6:40 pm

It's getting regoddamndiculous. Here in Vegas regular unleaded is 2.05 a gallon. It's costing me about $40 a week in gas, for a 4 day commute to and from work. What the fuck is going on.

I'm in serious contemplation and research of selling my car and getting a small bike for the fuel economy upgrade. 16mpg - 60mpg would be much happier.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » February 27, 2004, 6:43 pm

Prices are on the rise here as well. Around ~1.81 for 87 Octane. The gas companies need a serious regulating.

Vetiria · Post by **Vetiria** » February 27, 2004, 6:53 pm

Get used it. Prices are expected to reach $3/gallon some places this summer.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · February 27, 2004, 6:58 pm

Ugh, $3 dollars? This sucks the way it is.

Pahreyia · Post by **Pahreyia** » February 27, 2004, 7:06 pm

One of the issues I have with Bush is that when we had this situation with Clinton, he opened the oil reserves. Bush will never do that, and it'll be a cold day in hell when a Texan will regulate oil companies...

...And here I am facing a potential 80-95 mile a day commute coming up in July.

Sionistic · Post by **Sionistic** » February 27, 2004, 7:08 pm

its not too bad down here in florida, 1.64average regular unleaded.

Post by **Xouqoa** » February 27, 2004, 9:53 pm

Time to sell the blue beast and get one of these!

http://www.hondacars.com/models/model_o ... me=Insight
http://www.toyota.com/prius/

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » February 28, 2004, 1:59 am

gas prices skyrocketed the other day when saudi arabia "announced" that their oil reserves aren't some magical portal to the elemental plane of crude oil, supplying the world with an unlimited amount of fossil fuels. this of course gave the kingdom, every oil corp and every distributor of fuel in the free world an excuse to fleece the fuck out of motorists at the pump again. gas sales are also at an all time high in north america what with every second new vehicle being bought an SUV which are exempt from emmission and efficiency quality control standards.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » February 28, 2004, 2:43 am

kyoukan wrote:gas prices skyrocketed the other day when saudi arabia "announced" that their oil reserves aren't some magical portal to the elemental plane of crude oil, supplying the world with an unlimited amount of fossil fuels. this of course gave the kingdom, every oil corp and every distributor of fuel in the free world an excuse to fleece the fuck out of motorists at the pump again. gas sales are also at an all time high in north america what with every second new vehicle being bought an SUV which are exempt from emmission and efficiency quality control standards.

Exactly. If people are pissed about gas prices they should raise more stink about these sort of vehicles. About 75% of the people that drive those 10mpg vehicles don't even need them. (And no, I don't have statistics that back up that number. I pulled it out of the air.)

Granted, the price would probably be as high even if everyone drove cars that got 60mpg, but at least you'd have more room to complain.

Asheran Mojomaster · February 28, 2004, 3:23 am

Aslanna wrote:
kyoukan wrote:gas prices skyrocketed the other day when saudi arabia "announced" that their oil reserves aren't some magical portal to the elemental plane of crude oil, supplying the world with an unlimited amount of fossil fuels. this of course gave the kingdom, every oil corp and every distributor of fuel in the free world an excuse to fleece the fuck out of motorists at the pump again. gas sales are also at an all time high in north america what with every second new vehicle being bought an SUV which are exempt from emmission and efficiency quality control standards.
Exactly. If people are pissed about gas prices they should raise more stink about these sort of vehicles. About 75% of the people that drive those 10mpg vehicles don't even need them. (And no, I don't have statistics that back up that number. I pulled it out of the air.)

Granted, the price would probably be as high even if everyone drove cars that got 60mpg, but at least you'd have more room to complain.

Yeah, but if you could go 60 miles on a gallon, $2 for it wouldnt be that bad, heh.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » February 28, 2004, 3:52 am

gas went up about 80 cents a liter here in vancouver the other day. turning that into gallons and exchanging it in us dollars puts it around $2.40 a gallon. of course gasoline in canada is about 80% tax (not exaggerating).

Lalanae · Post by **Lalanae** » February 28, 2004, 3:55 am

kyoukan wrote:gas went up about 80 cents a liter here in vancouver the other day. turning that into gallons and exchanging it in us dollars puts it around $2.40 a gallon. of course gasoline in canada is about 80% tax (not exaggerating).

Well at least you get healthcare in exchange for your high prices...

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » February 28, 2004, 3:58 am

Lalanae wrote:
kyoukan wrote:gas went up about 80 cents a liter here in vancouver the other day. turning that into gallons and exchanging it in us dollars puts it around $2.40 a gallon. of course gasoline in canada is about 80% tax (not exaggerating).
Well at least you get healthcare in exchange for your high prices...

Hey look at all the detention camps we get for our taxes! How many illegally detained combatants can Canadians house!...

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » February 28, 2004, 4:06 am

well to be honest our gasoline tax generally goes to building and repaving our 12 lane superhighways that stretch between one 500 population town to the next. it kind of sucks to live in a country that is like 75 million square miles per person when you realize that you have to connect them all somehow.

having driven across canada a couple times I have to admit its kind of cool to be travelling on some huge fucking expressway and not see another vehicle for like 30 minutes at a time.

I live in the city though, so driving is more of a luxury to me. I don't mind paying higher prices for gas because I have alternate ways to get around if I really wanted to. plus my cooper is really good on gas.

Kguku · Post by **Kguku** » February 28, 2004, 4:15 am

I love the 12 lane superhighway that's in saskatchewan! Them thar is some gud roads yah!

Chmee · Post by **Chmee** » February 28, 2004, 12:18 pm

Canelek wrote:Prices are on the rise here as well. Around ~1.81 for 87 Octane. The gas companies need a serious regulating.

Actually some of the usual problem for the volatility of gas prices in the U.S. Is because of regulation. The EPA specifies different formulations of gasoline for different sections of the country. This leads to what many refer to as the "balkanization" of the gas market. The number of refineries making a particular formulation may be fairly small, and any break in their production can lead to to a sharper increase in prices since there is a smaller base to make up the lost production from. This certainly isn't the only factor, but it is a signficant one.

The following article goes into some of the reasons for the recent increases for California (article is from 02/18/04).

http://news.morningstar.com/news/DJ/M02 ... 01086.html

Drasta · Post by **Drasta** » February 28, 2004, 12:56 pm

our gas in my area of maryland goes from 1.59-1.65 and just bounces back and forth

Truant · Post by **Truant** » February 28, 2004, 5:01 pm

Xouqoa wrote:Time to sell the blue beast and get one of these!

http://www.hondacars.com/models/model_o ... me=Insight
http://www.toyota.com/prius/

heh, if I had the money...I'm ready to headbutt the blue beast atm.

For what it would cost me for basic maintenance and insurance for 6 months, it seems more cost effective to buy a bike. I'm still debating with myself however.

Drolgin Steingrinder · February 28, 2004, 5:46 pm

fear the danish gas prices, gentle men and women:
just over $6 per gallon.

I fail to see why anyone would want to drive a car that gets less than
30 miles/gallon in downtown traffic, though. How does your penix grow bigger driving a gas guzzler?

Akaran_D · Post by **Akaran_D** » February 28, 2004, 6:02 pm

I don't think it's a coincidence that gas prices are going up at the same time that alternitive fuel cars are comming out. Maybe I'm being parinoid, but the timing of this is very.. odd.

Siji · Post by **Siji** » February 28, 2004, 11:34 pm

Someone's likely to shoot me for this, but I think gas is seriously under priced. I mean, like you I don't want to pay more either, but I can't seem to get upset about it. Hopefully the higher the price of gas goes, and stays, the less SUV's and Hummer's will be cruising the road. It's been what, $6 or so per gallon in parts of Europe for a long time right?

All it's going to do is speed up the desire for alternative energy vehicles, or better gas mileage vehicles. It's nice filling up my motorcycle for 6 or 7 bucks and lasting almost all week on it. Where I'd fill my car up twice at $20 at least each time w/these prices.. and that's for a good mpg vehicle.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » February 29, 2004, 2:38 am

Can believe someone from the UK hasn't addressed this... gas is CHEAP in the US, it's cheap at $2/gallon. I think the price rise at the moment might have something to do w/ your dollar losing against all the cross rates at the moment. eg, 2 years ago the Australian dollar bought 50c US, now it's 85c. I have decided you need Bush in office 4 more years!

Now, given an 85/100 exchange rate.. gas in Australia is right around the $1/litre mark, you know litres, you get 3.785 of them per gallon, or to do the math for you.. we pay $3.20US/gallon.

Last time I looked at this, England was even more expensive than that.

Besides, gas is still cheaper than orange juice, and which one do you think you're capable of producing yourself?

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » February 29, 2004, 2:48 am

I think the main issue in other countries is that public transportation is more easily accesible since they are relativly small compared to something the size of US or Canada. So they probably don't have to drive as much.

I walk to work so high gas prices don't bother me much but everyone probably isn't as lucky. Of course, that's no excuse to buy gas sucking vehicles like H2 and other behemoth SUVs. Not sure how it is in other countries though. Wonder what the average commute is there.

Xzion · Post by **Xzion** » February 29, 2004, 2:50 am

Move to europe you pussies

Vetiria · Post by **Vetiria** » February 29, 2004, 5:46 am

Gas rising has more to do with OPEC lowering output and an overturned ship at the entrance to the Mississippi River not allowing any other ships down it. Plus gas isn't taxed too heavily in the US; it's mostly pure cost from the suppliers.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » February 29, 2004, 9:38 pm

Aslanna wrote:I think the main issue in other countries is that public transportation is more easily accesible since they are relativly small compared to something the size of US or Canada. So they probably don't have to drive as much.

I walk to work so high gas prices don't bother me much but everyone probably isn't as lucky. Of course, that's no excuse to buy gas sucking vehicles like H2 and other behemoth SUVs. Not sure how it is in other countries though. Wonder what the average commute is there.

Indeed, Australia is much smaller than Canada... ASS MONKEY.

There's no excuse for the lack off a public transport system in the US, the reason there isn't one is because you.. won't.. fucking.. use.. them. The catch 22 is that if you made gas more expensive you probably would use them, but you don't have them built yet..

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » March 1, 2004, 1:43 am

Zaelath wrote:
Aslanna wrote:I think the main issue in other countries is that public transportation is more easily accesible since they are relativly small compared to something the size of US or Canada. So they probably don't have to drive as much.

I walk to work so high gas prices don't bother me much but everyone probably isn't as lucky. Of course, that's no excuse to buy gas sucking vehicles like H2 and other behemoth SUVs. Not sure how it is in other countries though. Wonder what the average commute is there.
Indeed, Australia is much smaller than Canada... ASS MONKEY.

There's no excuse for the lack off a public transport system in the US, the reason there isn't one is because you.. won't.. fucking.. use.. them. The catch 22 is that if you made gas more expensive you probably would use them, but you don't have them built yet..

If I had my way we would!

Forget I said Canada. You can't compare Australia to the US. Australia is in no way populated across the whole land mass like the US.

Like I said.. I walk to work. I don't mind filling my gas tank every 6 months.

Chmee · Post by **Chmee** » March 1, 2004, 9:49 am

http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petr ... etbro.html

For the U.S. (as of 2002) the breakdown on gas prices given is ...

Distribution, Marketing Retail Station Costs & Profits - 13%
Refining Costs & Profits - 13%
Federal and State Taxes - 31%
Crude Oil - 43%

Siji · Post by **Siji** » March 1, 2004, 12:11 pm

Zaelath wrote:There's no excuse for the lack off a public transport system in the US, the reason there isn't one is because you.. won't.. fucking.. use.. them.

I'd disagree.. If you could actually get approval to get the public transport systems built, I think they'd be used quite a lot. In larger cities (NY, Atlanta, etc) the Metro/Subway/whatever gets used plenty. I'd wager though, that the companies standing to lose a lot of money by people not driving themselves (e.g. Oil Companies) would use their influence to slow or stop that process from happening.

Deward · Post by **Deward** » March 1, 2004, 12:18 pm

I also walk most days to work and love it. Once it gets warm enough then I ride my motorcycle. I only have to fill it up once or twice a year.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » March 1, 2004, 12:25 pm

hehe, there are tax incentives to *buy* SUVs over 6000 lbs.

Things like Lincoln Navigators, etc can be purchased (if you own a small business) and completely written off.

so at the end of 2003, people were buying them right and left for the write-off.

Beyond the environmental impact, the proliferation of these vehichles effects prices for all of us. It simply increases consumer demand, which will contribute to higher prices.

Post by **Sylvus** » March 1, 2004, 1:48 pm

Drolgin Steingrinder wrote:I fail to see why anyone would want to drive a car that gets less than
30 miles/gallon in downtown traffic, though. How does your penix grow bigger driving a gas guzzler?

I drive an SUV for a number of reasons, none of which are an attempt to make my penix grow bigger. Here are a few of them.

<ul><li>4-Wheel Drive: Living in a climate where you can get snow anytime for about half the year, I simply cannot imagine not having 4WD.</li><li>Size: I drive a lot of places, and often have several passengers and find bigger to be better in that regard.</li><li>Size, revisited: I'm a big guy, and I'm simply uncomfortable in a lot of smaller cars.</li><li>Safety: While a lot of people view it as a negative, an SUV is safer (for the SUV passengers) in vehicle-vehicle collisions. My mother was in a very serious car accident about 15 years ago that nearly killed her and forced her to permanently give up working. Had she not been driving an SUV at the time, she most definitely would not be here today.</li><li>Vehicle Cost: Since my mom only buys SUVs now, I usually buy her old one off of her when she gets a new one, saving me quite a bit of money.</li></ul>Using more gasoline is certainly a pain the ass from both an environmental and financial standpoint, but until they make a quality gas/electric hybrid SUV or one that runs on a fuel cell, I don't have a lot of options that will still meet my other requirements in a vehicle.

Drasta · Post by **Drasta** » March 1, 2004, 2:40 pm

and you sylvus .. can now be the person that seriously injure people with your massive metal weapon

Post by **Sylvus** » March 1, 2004, 3:06 pm

Or I can be the one to survive an otherwise fatal car accident!

In my mother's case, a semi ran a red light and caused her to crash into it, flipping her Blazer several times and trapping her inside and upside-down. The emergency people had to use the jaws of life to cut her out. In the ambulance her heart stopped on the way to the hospital. If the defibrillator hadn't done the trick she'd be dead right now, as opposed to getting by with closed head injuries and a severely damaged pelvis, as well as other, minor injuries. The fact that her truck was as large as it was stopped the axle of the semi from crushing the whole car and killing her before help even arrived.

There isn't a whole lot than can be said that will sway me on this issue; an SUV saved the life of one of the most important people in my life.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » March 1, 2004, 3:12 pm

If it weren't for terrorists we'd all be running around with little nuclear reactors in ours cars that run for years before needing to be refueled!

I also blame geeks and dweebs for not creating the perfect automated safety navigation system for our vehicles.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » March 1, 2004, 3:52 pm

Sylvus:

First of all, I don't know what kind of SUV you drive. If you roll in a Rav-4 or a Forester or a CR-V or something, then all of this is much less relevant.

All wheel drive is a ridiculous reason to buy a big SUV. Many cars and small SUV's have all wheel drive. Big SUV's might have it too, but it's certainly not even remotely close to an exclusive feature. Further, many SUV's not specifically designed for off-road use are worse than comparable cars on snowy roads. Many are built on the same bases that the maker builds their cars on. Oftentimes, the only difference is that SUV's are more top heavy and easier to flip.

Passenger room is a somewhat more valid reason. Again, I don't know what kind of SUV you drive, so I don't know how much room you have, but keep in mind that, if my facts are straight, a Hummer H2 only seats 5 people. Driver room is, in my mind, a pretty arbitrary distinction that a number of people make. Most small cars have plenty of room for you to sit and be perfectly comfortable, just as you would in an SUV, only there's sometimes a psychological claustrophobia response when you don't have additional room beyond you. I've seen your picture. I know people who are much bigger than you and fit just fine in a Toyota Camry.

SUV's are safer in some instances. The size of the vehicle can protect you. Of course, they're also notoriously bad in side-impact collisions (generally worse than cars) and they flip more easily. The fact that there's a lot of metal there does not necessarily make you safer, although it will benefit you in certain conditions.

And of course, the cost is a sensible criterion for your situation.

So maybe your mom is a great SUV buyer. Maybe she's been able to find a vehicle that can seat more than 5 people, has a low rollover rate and good side-impact response, has a voluminous drivers cabin, and has an all-wheel drive system that is somehow mysteriously better than that of a comparable car. Somehow I doubt it (or at least, if she's accomplished it, I'm probably staggered at the exorbitant cost and awful fuel-efficiency that accompanies it).

Don't delude yourself: In exchange for your pretense of safety and a slight increase in personal comfort, you're directly contributing to a dangerous trend that harms the environment, drives everyone elses gas prices up, and increases our dependency on the middle east. It's analogous to my making a conscious decision to never recycle and buy as many sweatshop-produced goods as I can.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't drive an SUV. I don't give a fuck. Drive whatever you want. Hell, an SUV may even be the best vehicle for your particular needs. I'm just saying that you've made a somewhat selfish trade, giving away a large portion of public good in exchange for a small portion of personal good.

On the other hand, a lot of the SUV hating is blatantly hypocritical. Some of the compact and midsive SUV's, like those I mentioned previously, can achieve close to 30 mpg on highways. That's comparable to a car as small as a BMW Z4 or a Mazda Miata, and better than most performance cars, like the BMW M3, Chevy Corvette, or Nissan 350Z.

Many people, self included, loathe SUV's. I don't loathe them because they're that much worse than other vehicles, but because they tend to represent so much unnecessary expenditure and waste. A soccer mom who has never, ever taken her TRAIL RATED Jeep Liberty on a trail disgusts me. On the same token, someone who buys a Corvette to drive around crowded urban streets that never go above 35 or so disgusts me.

You clearly don't fall into this category, which means that I would classify your choice as selfish but not abhorrent, and well within your rights to make.

I'm sure you're very concerned about the 5 page ethical judgement I have chosen to lay down on your choice of vehicles. I don't even know why I wrote this.

In conclusion, people make stupid choices about cars.